From: rraming
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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It is over, artical in TBM gave us final verdict. Wood is just as good. You carbon shooters are just wasting your cash. In all reality I use both but always wanted to just shoot wood, great inspiration for it!
I loved it!
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From: Jeff Durnell
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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I quit getting that magazine 15 years ago, but I don't need convincing when it comes to wooden arrows or wooden bows. They're all I've used for a long time and I'm fully content. I've never shot a carbon arrow, and never will. Not my style.
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From: Sawtooth (Original)
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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yeah that was a great article.... Just like you can't buy accuracy, carbon will not make you a better hunter.
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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The #1 thing carbon shafts have done for me is - save me lots of money.
Never was a woodie, and never will be one, that will take the beating a good carbon will, and keep on ticking.
Other than that, woodies are fine. :-)
Rick
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From: GF
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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Woodies speak to something that aluminum and carbon just kinda.... Don’f.
But honestly, woodies have got to be the least practical option available to us. Maybe that’s why so many guys like them so much. After all, what’s less “practical” than Bowhunting with a stickbow?
No debate from me. If it’ll fly straight, I’m happy to shoot it.
:D
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From: Smokedinpa
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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Love wood. In general they quiet things down. Just brake to easily for me.
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From: Sipsey River
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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If wood is best, why do some 3D events require wood arrows be shot? If wood is better than carbon, maybe the carbon shooters should get some type of handicap. Come on people, wood shafts have their place, but be honest, if your life depended on making a shot, would you choose wood or carbon?
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From: Sawtooth (Original)
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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Sipsey to answer your question honestly- I shoot wood better than all else. And those shafts I got from you were just right. If my life depended on PENETRATION of said shot, then carbon it would be, for me.
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From: Sawtooth (Original)
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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Hey while we are kicking this around I have an inquiry. Don Thomas wrote of wood arrows in the “ to skin a cat” piece of the TBM some months ago. Anybody remember what issue that was????
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From: Altizer
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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It is all based on what you want to shoot and the effort you put into finding the best performing arrow. I have shot them all including various carbons. This includes taking hundreds of animals from prairie dogs to bison. If the arrow shoots accurately and is placed in the right spot the animal is down. Each has their strong points and disadvantages. It is a matter of choice. I personally shoot Douglas Fir shafts from Sure Wood. I have all the confidence in the world in them. I’ve shot thru shoulder blades on elk and killed a B&C whitetail with them. The key is I believe in them. But most of all I like wood and the work it takes to make them. For years I shot 2114s and had full confidence. Carbons too. Nothing is tougher than a Axis shaft. Find what shoots well and makes you happy and enjoy bowhunting. The time folks waste on such things could be used to shoot a few more arrows. Fine what works for you and have fun.
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From: Bassman
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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With recurves for me it is carbon Beman Hunter.Been using them for quite a while. For self bows it is always wood arrows. Any other arrow with self bows just does not fit for me.I have aluminum arrows ,and fiberglass arrows also, but seldom shoot them any more.They all have their place.
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From: Foxbow
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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Shoot some hardwood shafts and you will find out how tough a wood arrow can be More durable than carbons I've shot
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From: Jim
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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Oh give me a break! Does it even matter? LOL Use whatever you want.
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From: sbschindler
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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there are some funny guys on here LOL
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From: Glunt@work
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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Woodies are ok if you are into modern stuff. Carbons are made from really old trees that we dig up millions of years later. :^)
I like them both. Woodies work great, have more mojo and smell great (POC) when they break...which is often.
I shoot carbons because I'm cheap.
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From: GF
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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Well, looks aren’t everything
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From: fdp
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Date: 04-Nov-19 |
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I didn't know there was any debate. Wood is quieter off the bow, easier to work with in every way, avaialble in any spine I want to make it, in any weight I want to make it, in virtually any diameter I want it to be.
It's quieter off of every bow I've ever shot, or heard shot. There are no inserts, weight tubes, outserts, or any additional parts required. Hardwood shafts will out last carbon shfts 3 to 1.
They make nicer looking arrows all artound, and they are bio degrdable to boot.
If my life depended on maing a shot I would choose 180gr..308 to be honest, or my .375H&H with 300 gr. Hornady loads.
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From: Tom McCool
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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I shoot wood but I believe carbons are “better”. I am OK with that mind set. It doesn’t bother me. Wood is just better for me. :)
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From: Bea
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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I always shot wood...still do sometimes. Depends on bow I'm using I guess. In recent years Ive started shooting carbon.
But out of my widow....after many years of shooting it , for me, and maybe me only, carbons just consistently shoot better overall.
I suspect it comes from uniformity from arrow to arrow.
But...I still love wood arrows. Always will.
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From: Will tell
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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I buy carbon shafts at Wally World when they go on sale for a couple bucks a shaft. I buy the Junior carbons and they're cut at 28". All I got to do is refletch them. I use 5/16 cedar shafts and can't tell any difference as far as performance.
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From: Dale in Pa.
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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fdp, Not arguing about the other points you made, but to say hardwoods will outlast carbons 3 to 1 tells me you are not putting those carbons together properly or using the wrong glues.
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From: fdp
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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Actually that may or may not be true. But here's the thing. Inorder for carbons to last at all while stump shooting here on the edge of the Balcones Escarpment, they have to be beefed up in one way or another. Not to mentione that they are outragepusly expensive for what they are. The mark up from manufacturer to the retail entities is absolutely indane.
WIth hardwood, all I have to do is fletch them, put a Judo on them, and go shoot. Not footings, no internal inserts, nothing. Nad I'm not really interested in doiing any of that with carbon arrows. Carbon arrow when they hit a hiddent limstone rock under the grass either mushromm, brak outright, or lose the nocks. I'm not willing to put up with that either.
If I shot strictly 3-D, or strictly in more cotroled conditions I may prefer carbon, but I don't, so I don't.
So, in my world, wood outlasts carbon 3 to 1. I still have carbon arrows, but I use them less and less all the time.
If I want arrows that are completely indestructible I make arrows from solid fiberglass rod. They outlast, and out penetrate all other materials period.
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From: mparker762
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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Carbons are more accurate for me, but I still prefer shooting wood, esp when hunting or shooting 3d. I dont like the thought of losing something in the woods that isnt biodegradable. And at hunting distances and conditions i havent found woodies to be the weak link in the chain.
If my life is on the line I'm taking my 375H&H with a magazine full of 300gr RNSP, not a bow.
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From: Verdeburl
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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I currently shoot carbons. I have nothing for, or against wood, or carbon. I favor carbon, but love the beauty of some wooden arrows I've seen. When it comes to the whole wood vs carbon debate I really don't get into that battle. Shoot what you like.
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From: Dry Bones
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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I believe from the comments above, the debate may not be settled. :D Just a 2 cent personal experience. Just like carbon, not all wood is equal. I have shot my own, which were terrible, and then shot some arrows that people like Sawtooth, Bodyman, and Mountainman have made. Those shot WAY better. However, once in the woods it's a matter of function. I have hit some big pigs (to me that's anything close to 200#'s or more) with carbon and had great results, but even with hardwood shafts that weigh well over 600 grains I have seen wood lack the penetration. Again bigger hogs, heavier mass, thicker "shield". Not to say you could not kill big pigs with wood arrows, but my personal experience has shown me a difference between carbon and wood in the meat. On deer, let the wood fly, the actual accounts of deer being harvested with lighter bows and wood arrows is astonishing.
-Bones
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From: NY Yankee
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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I agree with everything FDP wrote. I never shot a carbon and never will.
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From: RC
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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I shoot bamboo or cane arrows, way better than all the others.
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From: Kevin Dill
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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Well imagine that....an article favoring wood from a traditional bow magazine!
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From: Jim Davis
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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I make all my shafts. Recently bought a near perfect 8-foot 1 x 12 spruce board at my local building supply. Milled out 21 perfect 30" 5/16 shafts from about 6" of the width. Would have gotten 24 if I had used scrap to adjust my saw setup. The board cost $13 and change. There's another 6 or 7 dozen shafts in that board.
When carbon and aluminum start growing on trees, I'll start using those materials. Same for bows.
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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I like wood arrows. Really, I do.
Note in my first reply I said "good carbons". Some are not so good, and some are outstanding.
I have a challenge for you (anyone willing to accept).
Build up what you think is the toughest wood arrow you can muster. It can be hardwood, footed hardwood, etc, etc, but it has to be "all wood".
Tip it with a hex blunt (or similar), and send it to me.
I'll shoot it (along with my Widowmaker carbons) into a solid block of steel (multiple times if necessary), and we'll see which one survives the impacts.
I'll do it all on video too.
Rick
P.S. - I need a 30" to back of point arrow, and anything in the 75 to 110 spine range will work just fine.
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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P.S. / P.S.
No broomsticks. Standard size woods up to 23/64.
Rick
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From: Jimbob
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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Carbon is so far superior to everything else out there its like comparing apples to oranges. I know this, and so does everyone else. But, guess what, I still like my woodies! They are way cooler, and shooting anything else out of a longbow is sacrilege in my mind. My ASL's get woodies, my High performance bows get carbons, my old bears get aluminum. That's how I like it!
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From: rraming
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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The article simple implies that at 20 or 30 yards there is not much of a difference. They show groups at 20 yards with wood shafts up to 200 grains apart, no difference in impact. I love the debate and apparently even have it with myself from time to time, ha!
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From: SteveBNY
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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Along with what Sipsey said - If wood is equal, why does the Eagle Eye require wood only?
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. We tend to agonize of a lot of nonsense now and the. If I wanted the most accurate in the world, it sure wouldn't be carbon, it would be aluminum. And with aluminum you have built-in mass. But again, it sure doesn't mean anything to most folks except the ones who like to swear theirs is the best this or that.
Wood arrows have a history that can't be matched...well over 5000 years. That's good enough for me, but they are also accurate well past 30 yards as well. If they are matched relatively closely, they will do the job admirably. I don't buy arrows just for how durable they are.
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From: Oly
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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The best part of shooting wood is having bragging rights when you beat carbon shooters and a built in excuse if they beat you... LOL. We have one "odd ball" carbon shooter in our group and we use it to our advantage at every opportunity (you know who you are M2, aka Bloody Delta)
I just prefer wood... so simple, easy to work with and tune, and shoot great.
To answer the question posed by Sipsey... I'd shoot wood if my life depended on it because I have no idea where the carbon shaft would hit.
All in good fun guys... I couldn't care less about what others shoot.
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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Carbons don't shoot any better for me, than wood or aluminum.
No matter how daunting, or costly the task may be, "if/when" I shoot wood, I match them up, which means a lot of weighing, spine testing, and culling of many shafts to get a dozen reasonably matched within the realm of what I need.
Aluminum, and carbon are easy to get matched up, especially aluminum, and both are generally real close right from the box. Although, I have had to cull some carbons before.
Simply put - I shoot carbons (good carbons), because they are far superior in durability to any other arrow shaft material out there.
Rick
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From: RymanCat
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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Anyone old enough to remember the original carbons how they sucked and spliterd and blew apart on kills and everyone was afraid of carbon poison? LOL
Carbon has come a long way since the beginning and so has woods with the sitka spruce and many of the other woods being used today that are available.
If it weren't for those darn Owls we probably wood still be shooting cedar for NW states.LOL
Guys talk and write to just talk. I want to see what's been killed and experimented on.
Sadly enough the real killers might read what's said here to get their daily chuckle but don't get involved in the politics and impeachments on these threads.
A lot of Adamm Shifty's on here too as well as everywhere. LOL
I'm talking about guys that have arrowed hundreds of animals, birds and fish and critters with multiples of arrow composites and broadheads who have found out many things.
The things I found for me anyways as long as my arrows go where I look and the BH heads sharp it don't matter to me or the things being killed as long as it all worked out in a dead whatever.
Now my preference is Wood and then aluminum and then carbons. I've gotten some 15 / 35's to shoot well with Bear heads and Magnus II 4 blades.
But I'd rather drive a wood through them. Just my like.
I still like wooden ships and Iron men. LOL
Oh and shield maddens too. LOL
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From: Elkpacker1
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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Shoot caders /fir years, shot 3 broke 1 at the head joint. Killed my fair share of deer and elk. never a pass through on Elk.Fir was stonger and heavy. this year I went to an 29inch Axsis trad VPA up front and all dressed up. What I was looking for was the looks and performance allin one on a elk hunt considering I dropped weight to 58lbs. Arrow coming in at 610 grans razor sharp VPA 3 blade. Shot a 6x6 Bull at 20-25 paces and a complete passthrough. The shot was right behind the shoulder. A fir.cader would have killed the Bull as well but the carbon shaft did what i read it would do. Tuff, better pentration/skinny shaft. both work great but on Elk I will now go carbon
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From: Draven
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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"It is over, artical in TBM gave us final verdict. Wood is just as good. You carbon shooters are just wasting your cash."
I think someone can't see further than his nose. 12 woodies full package (nocks, fetahers, etc) are costing almost double compared with carbons.
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From: Draven
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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"It is over, artical in TBM gave us final verdict. Wood is just as good. You carbon shooters are just wasting your cash."
I think someone can't see farther than his nose. 12 woodies full package (nocks, feathers, etc) are costing almost double compared with carbons.
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From: David McLendon
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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"It is over, artical in TBM gave us final verdict."
Well there ya go, so fall in and march like a good trad shooter should. ;^)
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From: deerfly
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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lol, there is no debate, carbon is superior to wood in every aspect other than aesthetics and nostalgia.
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From: Therifleman
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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I only shoot carbon arrows when i shoot my bow. And when i do they look like wood arrows.
Although i use mainly carbons i do play around w wood and even hunt w them on occasion. Something about building a pretty cedar arrow, staining, cresting, grinding, dying and burning turkey feathers... Bit of a hearbreak when i bust one though.
Bamboo and rivercane are future projects.
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From: David McLendon
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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Wood was cool, I enjoyed building them and made my own tapered and footed shafts. But I quit using wood for a couple of reasons, I was having trouble making the arrow weight that I needed as compared to building carbons which were much easier to adjust via components to desired weight. Secondly I started hunting in Alaska about that time where everything is soaking Damn wet all the time, which is also why I shoot vanes there. Carbon is also either straight, or broken regardless of conditions, recovers from paradox much faster than wood or aluminum thus losing less energy, speed and momentum. There's a nostalgia to wood, I get that,been there and done that but nothing that I own shoots better with wood than it does with properly tuned carbon, and my carbon looks like wood and I ain't even close to looking back.
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From: fdp
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Date: 05-Nov-19 |
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It really doesn't matter what you shoot, it's all about what you are comfortable with, and what you enjoy, and what works well for you in the long run.
But that being said, eventhough carbon is currently the darling of the dance, it still isn't good in some respect.
Spine consistency is one of those. Not only within a dozen, but from batch run to batch run as well. THe consistency of the spine of some of the more popular carbon arrows is just well...bad. And again, for the cost, they shouldn't be. They should be dead on the money. Every batch, every arrow, every time. No reason they can't be.
Straightness and weight consistency are reasonable.
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From: Bamastalker
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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Long time fan of this sight first time to respond to a topic. In my 40 plus years of shooting recurves and longbows, I have shot aluminum, carbon, wood and fiberglass arrows. Have no experience with bamboo as of yet. It seems most are concerned which is most durable. I have had mixed results with the durability of carbon arrows. One has to ask themselves why do we choose to shoot traditional bows in the first place. For me ultimately it’s the enjoyment of seeing the arrow in flight to its intended target. In my opinion nothing compares to a properly made and matched tapered wood arrow. Shoot what you like and enjoy! ROLL TIDE Bamastalker
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From: Kevin Dill
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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'Better' is a 3 word phrase..."Better for me".
I think wood does some things better for me than carbon, and vice versa. I shoot both and feel no allegiance to either. But then, I really have no objective other than to please myself and enjoy what I'm doing. Wood kills. Carbon kills. It takes more skill to build a matched set of woods. On average, carbon will out-penetrate wood. Wood limits you to glue-on heads.
If someone told me to choose my last dozen arrows in this life, that would be tough. I'd probably go with wood for the aesthetic connection to my bow.
If someone told me to choose a dozen arrows that I would shoot with greatest accuracy and performance on big game....I'd be going with carbon after 2 seconds of deliberation.
And I still hunt with both....happily.
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From: RC
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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There ya go, 60 replies and now we know which is best :)
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From: RymanCat
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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Preference and variables and cost.
There ya go even better summed up.
Look around and you see what sells and what don't.
A lot want to try woods and don't. Carbon is popular but many have issues getting to fly.
Woods forgiving and carbon isn't.
You really owe it to yourself to decide what's better for you don't we think.
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From: Jarhead
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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This is a silly debate. It's not even close... archery is a game of precision and repeatability and consistency... all characteristics of carbon... not wood.
Are we next going to have a flint vs. steel argument?
All that said - hunt with what makes you happy.
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From: George Tsoukalas
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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I have no experience with carbons. All I shoot is my self bows and I would not shoot carbon out of a wooden bow.
But I do make my own shafts from white pine, wild rose and other hardwood found in nature.
It is what I enjoy. I don't do it for the cost savings.
Jawge
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From: Roger Norris
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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I have buckets of wood arrows. I rarely shoot them.
Carbons are infinitely better.
I get a kick out of the trad-police who decide that wood is the only "traditional arrow". Better get inside, you don't to get rain on your Fedora. ;0)
I don't shoot longbows and recurves because they are traditional. I shoot them because they are simple. Carbon arrows are way more simple than wood.
P.S....this is a dumb argument. Shoot whatever the hell you want.
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From: BigOzzie
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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Depends on my current obsession, I am obsessed with my bow, therefore I shoot the heck out of it. Whatever I can find to shoot.
12 years later I am obsessed with building wood arrows, first ones I have ever built, now I shoot the heck out of my bow with wood arrows.
12 years from now? who knows I may be obsessed with building my own knapped heads, I don't know.
you don't have to like what I like to make me feel better. Like whatever you want to like, I may try to bully you into liking what I like so we are like minded friends but if it doesn't work, we are not like minded, just friends.
oz
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From: NY Yankee
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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Explain to me how carbon arrows are more simple than wood. You have so many choices to make with carbon arrows, the shaft, the nock, the insert, front end weights, diameters that havent been standardized different construction, different finishes, manufacturers decals you cant remove easily, special saw to cut them straight without splintering and oh yea vacuum the dust 'cause you don't want to breath it, gotta use epoxy to hold the insert in or it pushes back if you hit a tough target (stump shooting) and the shaft my split when that happens, now you cant change the insert if you want to, small diameter nocks that need thin strings and servings to fit well and the shafts don't fit in older quivers arrow gripper so you need to change quivers, shall we talk about needing to add weight tubes or figuring out how to "foot" a carbon shaft with a piece of aluminum? I don't see how any of this is easier or simpler than just a plain wooden shaft, a taper on each end, a point, 3 feathers and a nock, Hot melt glue and my points don't push in at all. Properly made they stay straight and a hardwood shaft is very durable. Some are more durable than a carbon shaft. Im glad archery is an individual sport. If carbon arrows were the only option. I'd sell my bows.
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From: Jim Davis
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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The preferences above are based on where we have made camp on the trail from the stone age to the space age. Some us just want results and some of us enjoy the location.
It's the same in the gun world--muzzle loaders to ARs. With enthusiasts camped along the whole length of the road.
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From: Bamastalker
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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Mr Norris that is funny .. carbon arrows are way more simple. While they may have some advantages to say they are more simple than wood. Just look up all the threads of individuals having tuning issues trying to find the right carbon arrow for their set up. Again shoot what you like and enjoy!
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From: Bamastalker
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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If I wanted easy/quicker I would be shooting a wheel bow. Again shoot what makes you happy and enjoy!!
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From: rraming
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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For you guys that have unfinished shafts sitting around and only shoot carbon now you can mail me the old shafts you need to get rid of :) 70lb or so works well for me!
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From: fdp
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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So far, the consensus has been that carbon arrows are superior. However, no one has as yet explained why that is.
What attributes are there to carbon arrows (and I'm talking about the ones that the majority of people on this site use, not the Olymoic priced variety) that make them superior?
I'm still wating on that explanation.
And again, I don't care what anybody shoots when it comes arrows or bows, but when folks have such strong opinions, they should be able to support them.
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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Frank, the carbons I use are the Widowmaker Smash.
They were designed "specifically" for hunting.
The .300's I use weigh 12.2 gpi.
They spine within 2# of each other, weigh within 5gr of each other, they are fantastically straight, and their cost (depending on who you buy from) is comparable to that of buying top shelf "custom" wood arrows.
All that, and there isn't a (standard/normal size) wood arrow of "any wood" on the planet, that will take the beating they do without breaking.
Like I said earlier - I have nothing against wood. I like them. Really. But, I am rough on arrows. I'll go through dozens of woods before I break 2 or 3 of these Widowmakes.
These particular carbons save me money in the long run, they are extremely easy to tune to shoot, and I don't have to jump through any hoops to get an awesome hunting weight. They work darn fine for target arrows too. 8^)
There's my example of "why" for you.
Rick
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From: fdp
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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And Rick, that makes perfect sense.
That's the only reasonable explanation and example that I've heard thus far.
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 06-Nov-19 |
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Couple of other things about the Widowmaker Smash carbons I use.
They are the first carbon shaft "ever", that reminded me of shooting aluminum in how they feel on the shot, and they are very VERY quiet in flight.
Nothing to not like about them.
Rick
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From: Kevin Dill
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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I'll add that carbon arrows are only as complicated as you decide to make them. Bareshafting, heavy FOC, weights, insert vs outserts, collars, and specific diameters are all viable considerations but NOT necessary for building very good arrows. A great carbon arrow can be as simple as any XX75 aluminum.
For guys getting started at arrow building, it's not even a contest. Great wood arrows require many more steps and a LOT of understanding about straightening, grain orientation, finish applications, and so forth. A beginner has a lot to learn before he turns out expertly made woods. I estimate double to quadruple the time investment for woods vs carbon. Then there's the cost of finishes, paints, crester and other tools or supplies if used. In fairness...those costs can apply to carbon as well if you go full-on custom as I tend to do.
A lot of talk is directed toward carbon having better penetration characteristics than wood. I have found this to be true over many years of shooting both. My woods are 11/32 OD and the carbons in comparison are 5mm OD. Penetration can really only be directly compared in target media of course. For live animals we should really be talking about penetration potential...which shaft type is most likely to yield better penetration on marginal hits, or on very large animals.
And from experience I can tell you that carbon arrows are the real deal for helping reinforce your tipi center-pole when the storms of Alaska are raging. Note the fine custom paint work which I could appreciate while trying to keep my camp from getting destroyed or blown off the mountain.
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From: rraming
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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Kevin, you left yourself open to best use I have seen for a carbon arrow! Ha!
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From: Roger Norris
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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A couple guys posting a challenge to my statement that carbon arrows are more simple than wood...
Honestly folks, I'm not trying to change your mind. Shoot wood arrows if you want.
But for me, carbon is much more simple.
I have hunted 27 times now since October 1st. With 3 different bows. With a little bit of up front weight adjustment, I'm shooting the same arrows. Simple.
I don't spend time straightening carbon shafts. Simple.
I have never, ever had a struggle getting any bow to bare shaft tune with carbons. I can't say that abut wood. Simple.
I know wood arrows can be very durable, but I think on the average carbons are more so. Simple.
My carbon arrows all weigh and flex the same. Simple.
I'm not making these statements without experience. If I am reading my 1/2 a$$ed journal correctly, I have killed 19 whitetails with wooden (mostly cedar) arrows.
I totally respect another's choice to shoot wood, selfbows, knapped heads, whatever. But it aint for me. There are enough variables in killing a deer with a longbow. I want the arrow to be as perfect and consistent as possible.
I do have probably 15 dozen top quality cedar and hardwood arrows in my office. I may use them on deer again, I might not.
Oddly enough, I liken wood arrows to my brief time spent with a compound in the 80's. I hated it. mainly, because when I made a bad shot, I never knew if it was the equipment or me. 18 months was enough of that nonsense, and I went back to my recurve. Wood arrows do the same thing to my head....was that bad shot my fault or is this arrow screwed up?
Your mileage may vary, and I don't care ;0)
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From: Kevin Dill
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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But then again....I can start fires and pick my teeth with a broken woodie!
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From: Roger Norris
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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As a P.S....my thoughts on carbon vs wood have nothing to do with performance. Several years ago at Shrew Haven I had the opportunity to do an abbreviated "test". I killed 2 similar does, standing in the same spot, from the same treestand, with the same bow. One doe was shot with a carbon shaft, the other with a cedar. Same Magnus head. Penetration was complete with both arrows.
A properly tuned bow/arrow combination will shoot either just fine. Until the cedar warps ;0)
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From: Tundra
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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Don't bet the farm on arrow type material for penetration, you must consider the Broadhead design, weight, sharpness, and strength for ultimate penetration. As everyone knows shot placement and angles of shot factor in as well. Shoot what your want.
Tundra
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From: deerfly
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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My beeman centershots (my favorite carbon shafting) have nothing but standard nocks and inserts with 145 or 160 glue on points attached to 42gr long aluminum adapters and 3 4" fletches. No more complicated than any aluminum or wood arrow setup. At 28.5" BOP they weigh 480gr and fly like bullets out of my 50lb longbow and 45lb recurve and have yet to not leave 2 holes...
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From: NY Yankee
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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"Honestly, and I know this hurts, but some folks are just smarter than others, that’s just a fact so they don’t have any of the problems with the building and tuning of any arrows. I know I can knock out a dozen carbons from bare shaft to finished perfection faster than I can bare wood".
Yea, IF you already know what you need AND you already have the correct necessary components on hand. THEN you can just cut and paste. For anyone who wants to build a new set of carbons, it can get very confusing. Look at all the posts on Leather Wall asking for help figuring out what to get.
With wood, it's basically "what wood is better?"
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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You can do anything with aluminum that you can with carbon, including front loading, leaving full lenth, etc., etc. So there is really no difference in adjusting from bow to bow if that is what you like. Wood, you can literally do the same by taking stiffer shafts and front loading or leaving long to adjust dynamics. There is nothing new here and carbon isn't exclusive to the process.
We are fortunate to have good materials for arrow making, and one is not....and I repeat, is not any better than another. Some are more durable yes, but not more accurate when the archer knows what he is doing. As Rodney King said, "can't we just all get along". LOL
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From: RC
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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Bingo.. And all the old ladies start bitchen:)
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From: dnovo
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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I’ve heard all the reasons why we should use carbon arrows or aluminum or wood arrows. Now I’ve only shot a 1/2 dozen carbons in my life. I’ve shot a lot of aluminum and wood. I have few dozen aluminum arrows here and have milder a few critters with them out of my longbows. For me however I just prefer wood. I’m a contractor and carpenter by trade so maybe that has something to do with it. I really enjoy the process of making a very nice set of matched wood arrows. Not to sound wrong but I’m pretty good at it. I usually make several dozen for auction at out annual Bowhunters festival. I don’t feel I give up anything with wood. Since I usually shoot better scores than most of my buddies( who are pretty fair shots) who are using carbon or aluminum. At this point in my life it don’t see myself going after any more game that requires maximum penetration. So I just prefer wood for itself. It just seems right with my longbows.
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From: Kevin Dill
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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I love these debates, mainly because I can honestly say I love and shoot both wood and carbon with equal enthusiasm. They both perform very well.
Carbon arrows are NOT harder to build. Guys confuse all the choices available with 'making it harder'. It doesn't. It just provides many choices which some see as bad or confusing. I don't see many people complaining about having loads of bows, broadheads, and other goodies to select from. The fact is almost all shaft manufacturers sell matching components and one need go no further than that until it gets to fletching and broadheads. Carbon arrows reflect more technology versus woods, and I believe this is why many reject them.
If you're accomplished enough to build good woodies, you'd find the actual building of carbons to be like basic spelling: EZ. I spend way more time prepping to build my woodies. It's a labor of love, but not one I always enjoy or have time for.
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From: Sasquatch73
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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With all the options out there choose the one that gives you the most confidence and positive feelings. Shooting instinctive you have to believe in your equipment. By all means try them all wood, alum, and carbon for your best learning experience.
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From: NOVA7
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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I shoot booth but I do shoot carbon a bit netter.
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From: NY Yankee
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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I stand by every word I wrote and have had others agree as well. I know enough about it to know I don't want any. There is no debate as far as I'm concerned.
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From: rraming
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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So this is settled them, wood is just as good! Ha! :)
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From: TGbow
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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They will all work well if tuned right. I've shot wood, aluminum mostly for the last 40+ yrs and carbon for the last few yrs. I like em all and they all have their pros n cons. I haven't experience any problems with wood or aluminum that some have menfioned. Carbon is durable to a degree just like wood and aluminum. Never had trouble keeping good quality wood shafts straight or aluminum. I like my Gold Tip shafts a lot and they are very durable for sure.
But, a good quality wood shaft is just hard to beat as far as forgiveness to the archers flaws, and in hunting situations nothing is perfect. Shoot what makes you happy.
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From: deerfly
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Date: 07-Nov-19 |
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yeah, back in the day around here, I'll call it the trashwood, pablo and DRT era where we'd debate stuff like whether straight arrows were overrated or not.
I seem to remember if you shot a perfectly straight arrow and clammed the release you have a 100% chance of missing the mark where the arrow was originally pointed. But if you shoot a crooked arrow and flub the release your odds of hitting the original mark improve to 50/50...
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From: bradsmith2010santafe
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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I like wood arrows,, doesnt mean they are the best for every applicatioin,,,its just what I like
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From: swampwalker
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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So, what you like and what's best, are two different things. That's called, distillation.
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From: Griz
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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I’ve shot wood, aluminum and carbon and, in my experience, wood is the most forgiving (I shoot an American Semi-Longbow). The only reason I considered going back to carbon is durability. However, now that I’m no longer shooting Ace Hex Heads, the woodies are lasting longer (for some reason, when shooting the Ace heads, the shaft liked to break where the head ended and the taper began).
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From: Roger Norris
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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Not doubting anyone, but I would like to hear exactly how wood can be more forgiving? No 2 wood shafts are exactly the same....right?
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From: pab1981
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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Roger I am not sure an arrow or bow can be more forgiving. But for a lot of us I do believe it's easier to get the proper spined arrow with wood, especially with longbows cut proud of center, which helps a lot towards consistency. Some on these threads have suggested that those of us that struggle to match carbon to our bows lack intelligence but that's pretty harsh. I have no trouble understanding the process for tuning carbon and don't dislike carbon. But my experience is properly spined arrows are more important than dead straight, which i guess could be construed as forgiving. And for me its much easier to accomplish with wood.
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From: swampwalker
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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Okay, carbon is better. But wood is liked and smells great. :^)
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From: Kevin Dill
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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I like smelling grilled tenderloin.
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From: dnovo
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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Kevin, The tenderloin tastes better when the deer is killed using a wood arrow. It imparts flavor. ??:)
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From: Kevin Dill
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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Lol Dan.....I agree.
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From: bradsmith2010santafe
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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ok wood arrows are more forgiving because they are organic,,right,, :)
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From: Frisky
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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To be honest with you, I'm the last word on the subject. Carbons (good ones as Rick writes) are the toughest arrows out there. They're straight and stay that way better than any other material. Aluminum are an abomination and should be restricted to target archery. The main advantage of carbon, besides the low price of many brands, is penetration on game. I ran tests and the carbons penetrated 1/3rd deeper than my Bear cedars, arrow weight being equal. That said, if I fail to get a deer this week, I plan to take out out my old Bear cedars and Razorheads. I have confidence they'll fly straight and blow right through a deer. They're just not as good overall as carbons.
Joe
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From: GF
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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Funny thing is that woods are made out of carbon, too!
I don’t know about broadheads, but with FPs and Judos, a visibly-not-straight woodie will still shoot straight. Alumalogs will NOT. Carbons never get warped, of course....
Modern materials are certainly more convenient than Wood. “Superior” depends on what you value. Me? I like ‘em all.
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From: The Whittler
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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Carbon arrows are just a diamond in the ruff. :-)
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From: rxbob
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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Love making and shooting wood arrows but{and I hate to say this} I I shoot carbon arrows better.
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From: deerfly
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Date: 08-Nov-19 |
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wood arrows have feelings
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From: Stickmark
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Date: 11-Nov-19 |
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Shot a 1535 with a judo and duck tape up front. Stumping in the desert with the EFOC and a 1.4 inch arrow pass cured me of EFOC; my Douglas fir shafts arrive this week. The trajectory falls after 20 too much
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From: swampwalker
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Date: 11-Nov-19 |
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Wood arrows don't have feelings. ??
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From: GF
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Date: 11-Nov-19 |
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This one felt pretty darn good!
Better than I can expect from 20.... And it did it several times in a row....
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From: Ghostman
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Date: 12-Nov-19 |
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If wood was all that like many claim Olympic archers would be using them.
I get the nostalgia part but after using all types of arrows from wood, fiberglass, aluminum and carbon there is no way I'd state wood is better all around than carbon.
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From: rraming
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Date: 12-Nov-19 |
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Saw a thread on a carbon mishap, heard those carbon fibers never come out of the body, sounds fun!
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From: nineworlds9
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Date: 12-Nov-19 |
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I use carbons because I can make a dozen arrows last years and years and years, and through all weather conditions. There is no debate. Use what gets your salami hard, end of story. Ive shot carbons from selfbows for years, why?...cause I can. LAND OF THE FREE.
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From: Thumper-tx
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Date: 12-Nov-19 |
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The OP referenced the article in TBM, which I did read. It is rather biased toward wood and is certainly not a balanced comparison. Woods have their place with tradition but they are not as straight, as strong, or as consistent as carbon. I cant see how this is even a debate. I am not bashing wood in any way, I have some.
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From: Kevin Dill
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Date: 12-Nov-19 |
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Reminiscent of other fun debates such as wool vs synthetics, feathers vs vanes, Vanna vs Tiffany........
All a matter of personal preference and that's where it ends.
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From: Backcountry
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Date: 12-Nov-19 |
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Kev- You forgot the most famous debate of all: Ginger or Mary Ann!
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From: deerfly
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Date: 12-Nov-19 |
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no debate, Ginger all the way.
Lets not forget the white wood wars either.
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From: rraming
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Date: 12-Nov-19 |
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That was a scientific experiment in that article, it was clear wood one. Mary Ann wins, wool wins, feathers win, do not know Tiffany but sure she wins.
This is all basic science! :)
Who wants a set of arrows to last year's, that's silly!
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From: Jay B
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Date: 14-Nov-19 |
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Definitely Mary Ann, the demure looking ones are hiding a wild side!! On the wood versus carbon, the very best made woods became too expensive for me, good quality carbons just last longer for me, so it’s an economic choice. I do have a gorgeous set of Kelly’s arrows he made for me at a very reasonable price, got them, shot one group of 3, split one in half and put them away!! LOL Just like them too much to ruin them!!
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From: PEARL DRUMS
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Date: 14-Nov-19 |
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Ginger for sure, Vanna all day and twice on Sundays, white woods suck - osage is king and I'll take 6 quality woodies over 2 dozen carbons of any flavor. Does that cover it all ? :)
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From: GF
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Date: 14-Nov-19 |
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Every time this sort of thing comes up, I have to remember an old Nirk 6-fletch cedar flu flu that I shot for I don’t know how many years… I had trimmed the fletchings down and a lot of them had just fallen off, and I don’t know if it was the speed reduction from the heavy fletch, if I just got lucky, or… But I stumped the hell out of that arrow and it just kept coming back for more until one day I put it square into the face of a rock. About the size of a big old TV set.
I lost the glue-on Judo, but the shaft is in my basement waiting for a re-fletch.
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From: Backcountry
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Date: 14-Nov-19 |
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when I got back into shooting my recurve after a long interlude, I thought I’d just go down to the local sporting goods store and pick up a dozen wood arrows for my new 46# bow. Boy, was I in for a shock when I discovered not only did they not have any, to order a dozen very plain arrows would cost over $80!
Then a local archery shop wanted to sell me some 75-95 - spined GT carbons. Said spine didn’t matter for non-compound bows!
I like ‘em all— carbon, aluminum, and wood. But for all-around shooting, it’s hard to beat aluminum.
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From: GF
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Date: 14-Nov-19 |
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I hope you had the sense not to buy those.... Rick Barbee might be able to shoot those, but I don’t know if anyone else... Maybe Gary...
They’re all good. None of them last forever if you’re having any real fun, so you can only afford to sweat it just so much....
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From: Wudstix
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Date: 14-Nov-19 |
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Tapered Maple or Ash is pretty darn tough. I've had carbon arrows come unglued just as quick.
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From: Backcountry
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Date: 14-Nov-19 |
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GF—No, I didn’t buy those 7595’s. i might have been born at night, but not last night! That shop gets none of my business as I won’t darken their doorway.
i did buy some tapered cedar shafts from Wapiti and built those into passable arrows. But now I mostly shoot carbons
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From: GLF
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Date: 14-Nov-19 |
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No debate people. Woods better for the soul, carbons better for durability over wood. And aluminums better for accuracy, lol. Hadda slip that in.
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From: GLF
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Date: 14-Nov-19 |
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Woods also much easier to tune or tune a bow to.
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