So I found out my hunting arrow went up was to light. I am shooting a 50# super mag with a 27" draw. I have gold tip 500's cut to 28 1/4", 100gr inserts with 25gr weight added and 125 gr broadheads. I ended up adding trimmer line inside 550 cord outer sleeve to get more weight. I have 600gr even now fletched. Would love to hear what y'all think.

Where were you before you went crazy adding weight??

Assuming you’re hunting deer, I think anything over 450 is plenty heavy enough.

If you like shooting heavier, that’s up to you, but “too light” suggests a deficiency that (IMO) has no basis in fact.

I was at 495gr and wasn't getting good penetration. Someone suggested adding weight to help.

How was your arrow flight b4 the added weight? 495 shoulda beeen perfect. With tour setup i would have added a heavier tip if i had issues. Most folks that shoot that heavy of an arrow are in the 65# range. Makes me wonder how well youre tuned to be not getting good penetration.

I was shooting bare shafts straight and consistent with fletched as well. I basically swapped the inserts that came with the arrows that were 11 gr to the 125. So all the added weight is at the front if that makes sense.

If there is a good reason why 495 grains should not give you plenty adequate penetration with a well-tuned arrow, I really need to know what it is before I get myself into trouble.

A lot of FOC probably does mask poor flight better than a more balanced arrow, but there’s something here that doesn’t pass the sniff test. I’m starting to think that if you need a lot of FOC to get a bareshaft tuned.... you’re not actually tuned.

I dropped weight this year from 12 gpp to @8.5 gpp in a bow that is 44# at my 27" draw length. I know a 374 gr arrow sounds "light" but can tell you that w a well tuned arrow and sharp 2 blade i have gotten two holes in deer. I now find my set up much more forgiving to small errors is distance estimation. I'll never shoot enough poundage to bust through shoulder blades so i focus on accurate placement.

I think you were having a too weak arrow in the beginning. The paracord maybe made the arrow spine stiffer but I doubt it can compensate for the initial setup. Are you sure the fletched and bareshafts are hitting where you want at 20 yards?

Yeahhh, somethin' ain't right. You should have getting excellent penetration because you were over 10grs. per pound. I wouldn't use your combo probably unless I was trying to get a particular point on distance.

But that said, if it works for you that's all that matters.

I agree, what do you mean you were'nt getting good penatration? I'm shooting 380 grain arrows from a 40# Samick Sage drawn to 26" and getting complete pass throughs! My last whitetail ran 30yards, stopped then flopped. Double lung shot deer do not go far.

“I was shooting bare shafts straight and consistent with fletched as well. ”

At what range?

At 50 feet, I thought I was dead nuts.

At 20 yards, I got confirmation.

At 30 yards, the impacts were a couple feet high and several feet weak.

Bare-shafting needs to start off real close, and needs to end as far as you can get fletched arrows to form a recognizable group. And if mixing broadheads and FPs doesn’t confirm the bare-shaft results, I guess you’ve gotta start over...

Yoy!

Arrow mass is subjective to shooter preference in flight trajectory. Arrow tune is a whole other ball game. You don’t take a well tuned arrow and “untune” it just to get mass. You have to change arrows all together. Spine and length and start from scratch. Weight forward is the way to go. Choose point weight and insert weight then find a shaft weight that will complete your mass within 9-10 grains per pound. No one is the same. Here’s my example setup- Thunderchild 47@my28” BCYX Flemish string 16st .024 halo serving Big Jim silencers 8.25 BH. Bow quiver loaded ON. Dark Timber 500 spine shaft 29.5”. 7” vinyl wrap 4” 3 fletch w/ 50gr brass inserts and 125gr point. Total weight: 450 grains. 1/2” tail left bareshaft impacts center with fletched @ 20yds. Broadheads hit same as field points. 168 FPS has zipped straight through 2 deer this season buried 6” in the ground on the other side. 16.5% FOC. Well tuned well balanced arrows perform better. Tune arrow to the bow starting middle brace setting and chosen silencers places. THEN the bow on the arrow with brace adjusting and silencer position. Arrow MASS means NOTHING.

"arrow mass means nothing" that is supposed to mean what ?(*

I suspect that the comment was intended to express that arrow mass alone is of little value without the input of velocity, tune (so as to keep the velocity), and accuracy due to trajectory.

So many options but over and over, it seems that 9-10 gpp is a happy median or hunting. If you shoot a higher performance bow, longer draw length, you can go to a higher gpp. I run 10- 11 gpp. That give me arrow speeds of 185 to 192 fps from my bows (46#-50.5# @ 28"). I like the latter trajectory while still maintaing good momentum.

I would not be afraid to go to 160 to 175 grain broadhead to bump up your weight even more. You made a good move

My arrows usually fall into the 460 to 480 grain weight range. I've only ever had one instance when I didn't get two holes on a deer and that was a quartering shot into the off shoulder. Many brodside shots turn into pass through shots, but at the least, two holes with my setups. Accuracy means more than grain weight, and putting an arrow in the boiler room.

I like it,that's the weight I'm shooting out of my 50# St.Charles Thunderbird recurve.

“ I run 10- 11 gpp. That give me arrow speeds of 185 to 192 fps from my bows (46#-50.5# @ 28").”

Based on the “What is Fast?” thread, I’d like to know how you’re getting those speeds with 10-11 GPP and a 28” DL.

Not saying you’re mistaken, but it would be interesting to see that documented and I would LOVE to find out what the secret sauce is....

"Not saying you’re mistaken, but it would be interesting to see that documented and I would LOVE to find out what the secret sauce is...."

Kind of sounds like you were :^).

If it's not broken, don't fix it.

are you using a cut on contact broadhead?

Bob

You are shooting a bow 50#@28" SuperMag you are drawing 27" which would have you shooting around 47# at your draw. You are shooting a 500 spine carbon cut to 28.25 inches, you have 250 grs up front then add trimmer line to get the weight up. I am not a Carbon Guru but it sounds to me you combination before adding trimmer line was way to stiff to begin with, then adding the trimmer line made it act even stiffer. I would have thought a 600 would have been a better shaft choice with the poundage you are shooting, even with 225-250 grs up front, with the 600 shaft being cut to 28.25". I think you are getting poor penetration because you are in reality getting poor arrow flight from a shaft that is to stiff for the poundage your are shooting, it is not from the arrow weight, you are shooting over 10gr/lb of draw weight at 495grs. Carbons can get pretty darn stiff cut that short especially a 500 shaft. Just what I am seeing. DANNY

I am using Magnus stinger broadheads. I shoot out to 20 yards, that is the farthest I can safely shoot at my house. My hunting shots do not really give me anything past 15 yards so I never bother to shoot farther. I feel the bow was tuned well before. I ended up trimming the arrows a little shorter after I added the extra weight up front and believe it is tuned well again with this set up. I wasn't attempting to fix a tuning issue or mask poor tuning. I was trying to add weight to maximize penetration

One of the things I am trying to tell you adding anything to the inside of an arrow shaft you are stiffing the arrow's over all spine and tune, Even Though it is adding weight. Adding the trimmer line affects how the arrow shaft reacts at the shot. It does not allow the arrow shaft to flex the way it did before you added it. You are making the shaft more solid, compared to hollow, so therefore stiffer (similar to wall thickness in aluminums, a 2020 and a 2018 are stiffer than a 2016 even though the outside diameter of all three are the same. 2020 the stiffest with thickest wall narrowest tube), which will affect arrow flight, and trimmer line has also been known to shift within the shaft when the arrow is shot affecting flight. I am also saying since you are making your shaft stiffer adding the trimmer line, you will need to go to a heavier forward weight to compensate for the increase in shaft stiffness. DANNY

I had the trimmer line inside the shaft prior to any changes. I was at 495gr with the trimmer line and the regular inserts. I swapped the acculite insert for a 100gr insert with an extra 25gr weight on it. I had a less than ideal shot at 9 yards, I w a ant blaming the arrow for the shot but felt penetration should have been better. I was asking some folks and was told my arrow was on the light side and try adding weight up front.

495 grain arrows will kill anything in North America with little trouble. Matter of fact, that is about average weight for a 2016 aluminum with 145 grain head, and those will go through a big whitetail in a hurry. Don't listen to "some folks" when what you have is working well.

So EXACTLY WHERE did you hit this animal that you got poor penetration on or not what you thought you should? AS others have said 495grs is more than enough, that is over 10grs/lb for the poundage you ate shooting especially with that cut on contact head. Your arrow was more than heavy enough for the poundage you are shooting. If it was a straight down shot and the arrow didn't exit that wouldn't surprise me. So now I am really interested in shot angle and placement since since someone told you your arrow wasn't heavy enough. I knew a guy years ago that went hunting bear with a 500gr arrow, he was drawing 50#'s, shooting a recurve, using a Dacron string. He was so concerned that he wouldn't get enough penetration. He semi-trusted me when I told him it was enough (not 100% confident, everyone else was shooting much heavier bows), so he used it. So basically the same set up as yours. Out of a treestand he said his arrow blew completely through the bear he shot, I think he said a 15yd shot, about a 300 pound bear if I remember right, and stuck in a piece of wood past where the bear was standing. Perfect arrow flight and a cut on contact head. DANNY

Maybe it’s just that your arrow is too stiff, and you needed to increase the head weight without bogging down the arrow with the trimmer line.

Point is, it’s not the weight of the arrow that was causing your penetration problems. Has to be the tune. Same overall weight but putting it up front to soften the spine of your arrow would probably do the trick. Simplistic answers like “just add some weight“ rarely solve a three-part equation.

If you want heavy arrows, start with a shaft test has a high grains per inch. I've tried to make guys aware of the carbon Trads from Victory Archery, telling guys that the 550 spine is perfect for low 50's upper 40 pound bows.

495 grain arrow and not enough penetration makes me question your bow/arrow tuning, and your broadhead sharpening skills. Especially on whitetails that have thin ribs and thin shoulder blades. My bull in 2016 was shot with a 50 pound Tribe longbow and 460 grain arrows with a 125 grain three bladed Montec. At 26 yards, slight quartering away, arrow stopped on his opposite shoulder. And you're having penetration issues with a 495 grain arrow... I don't think it's an arrow weight issue...

What is a common, or average up front weight? I'm tuned slightly weak with 50 grain insert and 145 point, so is 200 up front common? Maybe coming from the wheel bow world 200 and 250 up front seems like a lot.

Wow. 500 grains is lots of weight for any game animal in North America.

I hunt with arrows between 400 and 900 grains. Broadhead weight from 125 to 250 grains to match the arrows and game species.

DDave

I guess it depends on the shaft. For aluminum, seems like anything other than 125 is unusual. For woodies, well, Ace makes heads from 100 to 200. They must be selling most of those...

Only with carbons do people routinely use the 200+....

I'm with Shawn u don't need more than 8gr per lb

Save yourself some aggravation and get some 1916 aluminum shafts and be done with it, but there's no reason your original setup wont blow through a deer unless your not tuned. I've taken many deer with 8 GPP weighing 400gr.

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