When I completely engage my back tension & completely ‘trust’ in my form, anchor & release, man … the arrows go right in where I was aiming! Made some nice shots on the deer 3D target at 15 & 20-yards, but still not consistent as I’d like.

Had watched a few YouTube videos by Clay Hayes on bow hand position (to eliminate torque) & back tension, and both were very good! I like his presentation and that wooden model he made of arms from bow to anchor, thru the shoulders & back of course, with the elastic showing the ‘line of tension/force’, was simply ingenious. And the visual stays with you.

Still having tremendous fun with my LaBrake yew longbow & wood arrows and I guess that’s what it’s all about! Cheers,

I thought that model was terrific also. I have used it several to help get the point across. >>>>-----> Ken

I was having these same thoughts the other morning. Pulling through with strong tension, it feels like you're 'losing control' but you're really not. You're puling and pushing fully and *gaining* control of your aim and your release all at the same time. But giving up that 'static' hold & release is practically an 'act of faith' and not always easy!

I've found that at least 6 'blind bale' shots at the start of my practice sessions helps me establish the proper feel without worries about accuracy. Then I shoot pretty well.

For someone trying to establish this new process, longer sessions might be useful.

For me the trick will be to forego the every-session bale work.

I've never quite understood the whole "back tension" thing.

Could someone explain it to me?.

What do you believe it actually means when people say muscles are "engaged" and which specific muscles are we talking about and in which sequence are they being "engaged"

Help me out here ... you can be as technical as you like

Phil I had a problem with it too , it was explained to me as when you come to full draw if you imagine someone holding a can of beer in the center of your back between your shoulder blades and you frying to hold it there by rotating your shoulders back and thus pinching it and holding it there.

And if you practice that movement while facing a mirror and stand as if the mirror was the target you can see how much more in alignment everything is that way with the back engaged as opposed to your old way. Lefty your right it is awesome when it all comes together thanks for the post and turning me on to Caneron's video..GOOD STUFF!!

Thanks, great visual lessons.

"Back tension" is the umbrella for a lot of small movements that an archer is taught to do to obtain a stable stance at full draw. Is it necessary to learn all these when the body is doing all of these by itself "sufficient enough"? It depends on the wanted outcome.

"Back tension" is the umbrella for a lot of small movements that an archer is taught to do to obtain a stable stance at full draw. Is it necessary to learn all these when the body is doing all of these by itself "sufficient enough"? It depends on the wanted outcome."

I wanted no/less pain that had developed.

You can really work on back tension by making a string trainer. You can really feel what is happening when you expand and release with one. Oh, use your tab/glove while using one. I ended up with a big water blister on my fingers. Did not notice it till I woke up.

If you try a 'rotational' draw you'll immediately feel the back muscles between your shoulder blades pulling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH5U5tDS7Hs

If you have an exercise band or a Bow-Fit loop it around your upper arm and draw back just by rotating your elbow back. (Your bicep does *not* engage.)

OK ... so why is using "back tension" better than not using back tension

Phil check out Cameron Hayes video that's posted abovs,it explains it all ... when your locked in it's more solid,"locked in and repeatable".

Try pulling through without it ;-)

"Back tension" is there at full draw, no matter if you know about it or not. Saying that back tension is not there is like saying the Giraffe it doesn't exist even when you are standing in front of it. Why is better to learn about it vs not knowing but using it? Why is good to know that 2+2=4 when you can live well without knowing this?

There have been times when I have drawn my bow effortlessly. I finally figured out that I was using back tension..Clay Hayes vidio is well worth watching..

Draven, watch a bunch of shooters, and observe how many reach 'full draw' and then 'collapse' - letting their draw hand come *forward* to anchor. I will agree, technically they are no longer at 'full draw'. Unfortunately some shooters *over* draw.

When you do that you have stopped using your back, you have transferred the draw from your back to your biceps, and you are now ready to pluck the string on release.

Using back tension properly you only draw *to* your anchor point, pause there, and then continue to pull through with your back. No over draw, no collapse, clean release.

Dana, I will argue that to get to whatever is for someone "full draw" he needs to use the muscles from the "opposite side" to be able to spread the bow. Formal archery is teaching you a way to make this thing happening. Do someone needs to stop at full draw to know he has the back engaged? Yes? No? Maybe? This is where the things are getting sideways.

"I will argue"

Dana, It seems to me that he hasn't watched the video and the stick demonstration. Until he does.......well,what can I say, it doesn't add up, and he doesn't care if it does.

I've watched it and I think there is a missing point in the conversation. What is he "teaching" is not how to get the "back tension", he is just telling how to verify if there is "back tension" using meaningless words like "bone on bone" and the benefice of the "back tension". I did not heard him saying that to engage "back muscles" you need to do one single thing: to keep the pressure executed by the bow centered on your shoulder joints as natural as possible. The more you are off from this "natural alignment" the less your "back muscles" will need help form the other side. It doesn't mean they are not engaged - they are just not engaged "enough" or "properly".

Just want to clarify ... I've now watched Mr Hayes video four times and ....

I've watched it and I think there is a missing point in the conversation. What is he "teaching" is not how to get the "back tension", he is just telling how to verify if there is "back tension" using meaningless words like "bone on bone" and the benefice of the "back tension". I did not heard him saying that to engage "back muscles" you need to do one single thing: to keep the pressure executed by the bow centered on your shoulder joints as natural as possible. The more you are off from this "natural alignment" the more your "back muscles" will need help from the other side. It doesn't mean they are not engaged - they are just not engaged "enough" or "properly".

..... if you shoot with a "hunched over" .. head forward style, can you engage back tension?

Draven is right. You HAVE to use back tension or back muscles to draw a bow. You DON'T have to use back tension to hold at full draw. Once at full draw the weight can be shifted to the arm/shoulder. That's where the disconnect comes in.

If you really want to feel the back engage, and stay engaged, move your elbow around behind your head at the set up position. You will feel the shoulder blade engage, you will feel the weight of the bow on your back muscles, and your alignment will be much easier to obtain/maintain, as well as your form being much tighter and more compact.

Phil, of course you can.

Phil...BT has to do with the use and engagement of the Rhomboid muscle of the draw arm side.

FYI - Some GREAT exercises for the rhomboid muscles:

https://www.healthline.com/health/fitness-exercise/rhomboid- exercises#prone-lateral-raise

What is a string trainer?

I'm going back to compound!

Probably this is why guns got so popular even with their low rate of fire compared to the bow. Blow on your match, pull trigger and hold on. Simplicity sells.

"You DON'T have to use back tension to hold at full draw. Once at full draw the weight can be shifted to the arm/shoulder. That's where the disconnect comes in. "

I'd have to say 'the disconnect' seems like a bad thing to me! I want my back connected to my draw hand, in order to release and finish cleanly. I see no advantage in disconnecting.

I completely agree Dana. And the point if the statement is that folks use their back to get to full draw, then they let the arm take over. That's when the back tension/back muscles become disconnected from the process and have to be reengaged.

One of the keys, at least as far as how I was taught is to never let the back get out of the process.

Once your elbow is rotated all the way around to line up with the arrow by pull it around with your rhomboid muscles then it is much easier to relax your pulling arm and it just becomes a hook holding the string and facilitates a straight back release without any plucking. When done right your release is pure and the results are obvious. Easier said than done.

Frank, you are right. The funniest thing with all this “back tension” is that a snap- shooter aka fluid sequence shooter is the best for having your back engaged all the way to follow through but they are the first to contest the existence of “back tension”.

PS If you really want to feel what back tension really is, you need to have a floating anchor past year - asian archery. Target archery and sight advent broke the fluid motion in two - “start to full draw” and “aim and release” - and patched it up with “how to keep my back involved when I am not moving” .

Past ear*

Guys, I think we're al coming at this from different places but agreeing on desired outcome.

Yes, 'pausing' at anchor can lead to disconnecting from the back. (I know! and I suspect y'all do too.)

I have found it easier to 'maintain' back tension at the pause/anchor if I *start* with back tension - by way of the rotational draw. Focus on moving the elbow back from the start of the draw. I suppose other methods work, but not sure my brain could perform the mental gymnastics ;-)

Maybe it's just easier to do than to accurately describe.

To me the rotational draw doesn't work. It gives me a false impression of having engaged the back. ANd there is too much unneccessary movement involved. And most of the movement is not in a straight line.

The 1 ways that I can engage my back and KNOW it is engaged because of the load on the muscles are;

1. Starting out with my elbow rotated around from the set up position. The most effective and most energy efficient way for me.

2. Drawinf to my anchor/sighting regeremce and then rotating my elbow. Not nearly as energy efficient, Doesn't allow the tight, compact alignment that the above method does because you are starting out with the alignment more open to begin with, which requires you to regather after you get to full draw.

ttt

Frank, I can't even visualize what you describe. "Drawing...and then rotating my elbow..." "regather"?

Drawing HOW, if not BY rotating the elbow back? Regather what?

Rotatonal draw equals KISS for me, but as always ymmv ;-)

Anyway, as long as we're dong what the topic refers to - pulling through for a strong shot/clean release.

I've heard the good clean release described as 'dynamic' and even 'explosive' and until the archer learns to trust it, it's a bit -scary-. (And I think I've come full circle here...)

The video made sense to me, the model cinched it. I've got a stiff neck with limited range of motion, which is pretty awesome considering my neck was broken in a roll over semi vs car collision. Yes, the Good Lord did bless me that time.

If I shoot the bow with my right eye (right eye dominant) everything was off kilter, but I just went with it, dropped the bow weight and soldiered on. The back muscles weren't engaged the way they used to be.

When I changed to my left eye, I got the back tension, not what I used to have but enough I could shoot a bow I couldn't draw just a month ago. I'm on the right track. thanks to this thread. I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.

If you want to pursue a back tension shot sequence, this is the best source that I have found. It is not a complicated method but it is difficult to explain it in a paragraph. It is based on bone to bone contact for its repeatability and to eliminate fatigue. It is not just a target shooting technique, I know archers who hunt with it.

P.S. I'm still working on it.

Gifford, sounds like you've hoed a tough row. Glad things are getting better for you. Nothing like finding peace in the flight of an arrow.

Gifford - I 2nd the “glad you soldiered on” sentiment and am glad I had posted this thread so that it helped you! Keep at it!

Well, im confused.

Dana, the majority of people, even if they don't realize it, draw in a straight line to anchor and stop. Then, the rotate, or move the elbow further behind their head toward their spine. When they stop, they are then holding the bow with the shoulder and hand. When they rotate or move the elbow they are having to re engage or re gather back tension.

The back tension should have never stopped.

That's one of the reasons the exaggerated movement of the string hand has become in vogue in recent years. Folks think that the string hand ending up in the shoulder, behind the head etc. indicates they are using their back muscles. But that's not the case.

"Folks think that the string hand ending up in the shoulder, behind the head etc. indicates they are using their back muscles. But that's not the case."

I considered what fdp said and came to full draw/anchor, then moved my hand behind my ear to my shoulder. The motion engaged shoulder muscles, so, fdp, exactly how is this "not the case", when indeed the shoulder is used/continued to move, as completing the straight line. Tension is continuous to attain then hold anchor, not stopping and thereby not requiring the "re-engage or re-gathering, as you stated. The movement is stopped/held, only because the muscles ARE engaged under tension.

Dana,

"Yes, 'pausing' at anchor can lead to disconnecting from the back. (I know! and I suspect y'all do too.)"

No, I don't know what you mean. But if you are disconnecting by way of a concentrated focus, being busy aiming is how it should be, right?

"Maybe it's just easier to do than to accurately describe." - I get that.

Wild Bill, because the movement of the hand takes place in the instances I described after the fingers are opened and the string is gone. It happens after the release, its not a product of the release.

I had a look a tips 4 and at the very start when he shot he looked like he was struggling with the draw weight and collapsing. Don't know how well he shoots but kinda put me off.

Clay has done a marvelous job in his video using his wooden arms/

joints model, thanks for posting it 1buckurout.

i liken back tension to reaching my anchor point, then using back

tension, coming to full draw length. It is really that simple.

that string and stick thing shows why I shoot to the left so often.

Pull, then puuul.

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