I would like to start shooting a selfbow. I am not new to traditional, is there any tricks to the selfbow thing?

No sir, shoot like any other bow. Don't leave strung for long. They can take a set. Have fun. >>>>-----> Ken

No.

Patience.

Nope, Have fun

I had a husband and wife over yesterday. He is a certified archery instructor and she took it up a few years ago. I had 4 different style bows I made. Hickory ELB hybrid (Antler tip arrow rest so not a "True ELB) a short HHB R/D blind/brush bow - a Bamboo backed Hickory American longbow and a Hickory flatbow.

Both of them used the same form that they use to shoot every week on our local 3D circuit, and were amazed that these "primitive" all natural material (except strings) bows could zip an arrow and do it with accuracy.

I have another Bamboo backed Hickory glued up and ready to be tillered and think that there is a potential archer wanting to have it.

Think about this: Every bow produced today has it's roots in those from the distant past. A well crafted bow is not only a viable weapon but can be a work of art as well.

Easy, and a great and fulfilling way to bow and arrow hunt.

Hijacking this thread to show that a selfbow can be made simple as a stick and string or dressed up. If you get bit by the bug of shaving wood there's no turning back!

Yes but if it's dressed up with bamboo on the back and a power lam, it's no selfbow.

Sapper, not all selfbows are created equal. Get a well made one and the transition will be easier. Get a poorly made one, and you'll likely soon give up on it... or it will give out on you.

Jeff, I sort of agree and again disagree with your statement. I think that I've heard that a "True" selfbow is made from a singular piece of material? How then do we classify the bows that are made of a bamboo back and belly? They're all natural materials excepting the glue but they're considered backed or laminated. On the PA site bows backed with fiberglass sheetrock tape or linen are considered selfbows, I'm at a loss here. I don't want to split hairs, I'm aware that you are a respected authority on selfbows and respect your input.I guess I was trying to point out that there is a lot of gray area and you confirmed it.

Actually there isn't any gray area at all. ON'y that which has been created. The term "self bow" has had a singular meaning for many, many years. There ae different kinds of wood and natural materials bows, but a self bow is just that. It's all one kind of wood and in it's purest sense made from one piece of wood.

Self bows- one wood, backed bows-any kind of backing, laminated- multiple pieces of wood and or glass. That has always been my understanding. I think it came from class distinctions at competitions. Not positive. >>>>-----> Ken

You can have all wood bows that are not selfbows. As fdp said, it's pretty clear in the name itself.

Are they touchier as far a spine goes?

it depends Sapper. Spine requirement is more dependent on centershot and string material. At least in my experience.

I agree with fdp that matching an arrow's spine to a selfbow is mostly about degree of centershot, string material, etc. But one thing that CAN make it more difficult, and which ties into what I said earlier about the quality of the bow... is limb alignment. I've seen some lesser quality selfbows that were made without close attention to details that can affect limb alignment, and if limb alignment is off, either at brace or goes out of alignment during the draw, it can make it critical of arrow spine.

Again, I agree with fdp, there is no grey area in what constitutes a selfbow. 'Selfbow' means, a self-backed bow. A bow with no backing that improves the function or protection of the bow. Anything else is some other type of bow.

A bow with bamboo on the back is a backed bow.

A bow with linen or fiberglass drywall tape on the back is a backed bow, not a selfbow.

I go on the PA site too and have never seen where the bows you mentioned were deemed selfbows, but maybe I missed it.

I find that the style of self bow I shoot ( no sight window) to be more critical of spine than my laminated cut to center bows. The arrow has to go through a lot more paradox to hit where I’m pointing it. That said, onceI have the correct spine for the bow it shoots every bit as well as any other bow I have and in most cases it is quieter and with better manners. It gives up absolutely nothing performance wise but does require a bit more “care” than a laminated bow ( don’t over draw, leave strung all the time, etc.)

My site has info on building self bows.

http://traditionalarchery101.com

Jawge

So Folks, I apologize for any confusion regarding what a selfbow actually is and should have known better than to have posted a backed bow. I was trying to point out the difference in bows made by the "average Joe" if you will and high end or production bows. This one is Hop Hornbeam with Bocote tip overlays. One piece stave from a tree I cut and split and seasoned. It's 56" NTN and 47# with an antler tip arrow rest. I think this one is correct?

I might be the odd ball here but I shoot my self bows different than my other bows. I tiller them for a short draw and shoot pretty much like Mr. Howard Hill leaning in shortening my draw by a couple inches.

I shot in the first IBO Trad. World and they let bows in that were backed bows but all wood in the Primitive class. I was the only Self bowshooter that finished in the top three, I got beat out by a shooter shooting a bamboo Ipe bow. They've changed it to all self bows.

Yes, it is, barbo2. Looks good unbraced. Jawge

Well I might not know what a selfbow is but a all wood bow from the same stave bow with a shelf well shoot as good as a glass Longbow . There’re was three real similar bows all on the IBO podium this year. Just facts. Arvin

I really haven't shot anything but a selfbow, but I see a few tiny things that might be different.

You might notice a slight difference in performance from moisture. Some woods really absorb moisture and some not as much. A hickory bow can get a bit sluggish in high humidity so I'm told. However it performs terrific in low humidity climates.

Fiberglass is much more forgiving. You can get away with little things that will kill a selfbow. There are a few rules for selfbows you don't want to break.

Never draw a selfbow more than it was designed to be drawn.

It's best for the bow not to hold it at full draw for any length of time. It's Just easier on the bow. They are right on the edge of their limits and the longer their on that edge the more bad things that can happen even if you don't break it.

Like Jeff said get a good one. I don't mean a pretty one. I mean one that a real bowyer built. The real beauty of a selfbow is it bend. It has to be right for it to perform properly and last. It doesn't matter how pretty it is. Not that you can't buy a pretty one, but make sure it's bend is pretty.

NEVER EVER string a selfbow backwards. They are designed so the back of the bow can handle tension. The belly has wood removed to get the perfect bend and desired draw weight. It is designed for compression. They can break very easily if bent the wrong direction. I did just read a post about a hickory bow that took set and then was strung backwards and still shooting but I can assure you this is not normally a good idea.

Even just stringing a selfbow you have to be careful. You alway have to spread the stress out evenly. I use push pull method. If you use step though make sure your leg is on handle. You probably won't get away with it part way down the limb.

Don't leave bow strung when not in use. You can leave it strung for day hunting, but when your done unbrace it.

Alway make sure string is in knock properly and check for wear.

Others are probably care of although they may not be that different.

Best kept in a climate controlled place. Not to moist and not to dry. It's alright to be either for awhile but both effect your bow. Moister may slow it down and possibly even cause a bit of set. Dry and you gain performance but if your bow is pushing the limits and already living on the edge it could have a kato. I hang mine from a peg from one end.

If you come up with the right combination of spine you can get amazingly good arrow flight from any combination of handles. I think one with a arrow shelf cut in closer to center shot could handle a wider range of spines, but I shoot off knuckles with very good flight to.

They are very effective weapons. If you treat them right I think you will be happy and perhaps even impressed.

Let's us know what you think.

Bjrogg

Thanks guys

Well put BJ. Total agreement. Arvin

Thanks Arvin, sometimes I think we forget the little things we just assume everyone knows. It's always though learning them the hard way.

Bjrogg

Who are some of the good bowlers making them?

While I have never shot one myself, I have shot against a few of Arvin’s selfbows. Everyone that was shooting one talked like they were very pleased with them. Only reason I have not considered buying one is I enjoy making and shooting my own.

I love self bows,, fun to shoot,,and fun to make,,

"Sapper, not all selfbows are created equal. Get a well made one and the transition will be easier. Get a poorly made one, and you'll likely soon give up on it... or it will give out on you."

No truer words have been spoken.

If shooting around the riser off the hand tuning can be a real PITA until you learn its nuances. But stick with it and it WILL pay off, really.

I think a self bow is a little more critical how you hold it,,if you grip it too tight,then tuning seems difficult,,if you hold it loose,, then it will shoot a wider range of spine than most would think,, and get really great arrow flight,, if the string is not ligned up right,,it can be difficult as well,,,there have been times I thought the bow needed work,, but really it was just me,,,,,:)

Brad I agree with a whole lot of what you said. We know folks that can pick up a bow that shoots high and left for a right hander . Shoot it ten times and then shoot it where they want the arrow to hit. Yes they make me sick. But they won’t shoot a bow that way long. Maybe ten shots! Arvin

I’ve only hunted with self bows for past couple years and I honestly don’t feel handicapped by them at all at the ranges I belong shooting at deer. As stated above though we’ll made is the key. A Well made self bow is whisper quiet, damp in hand and very forgiving and will blow a hunting weight arrow through a bucks chest as well as the fastest glass recurve. I really don’t see me archery hunting with anything else anytime soon.

Here’s a quote from the late Dean Torges from an article that’s still up on his site.

“So, ten years after my first statement, I'm willing to make a bolder claim. Based upon fifty years' experiences hunting with all sorts of bows and arrows, I don't believe a better close-quarter bow sooner meets the hunting archer's priority list of requirements, regardless of its construction components, than a selfbow. Make it right, and it contains no surprises” Dean Torges

Here’s a link to the article

http://bowyersedge.com/handicap.html

Bang on Bjrogg

"Make it right, and it contains no surprises” Dean Torges

So much in and around the crafting and shooting of the best selfbows is directly related to that statement.

Brad, that's actually a good test for a selfbow, or any bow really. If a bow's limbs are tillered well and balanced in strength relative to the archer's holds, and the grip is shaped well, it can shoot the same whether it's gripped lightly or being choked to death.

...no surprises.

Tune, tune, tune. I can honestly say I see way more mismatched self bows and arrows than any other style. Arrows wagging like a dog tail, bow banging like a slammed door or arrows spiraling like a cyclone. If the bow makes noise, its not tuned right regardless of arrow flight. Take the time to nail that part down and your accuracy will tighten right up and your bow will shut right up.

well I guess you right Jeff,, maybe its in my mind, but I feel like the loose grip lets the bow out of the way of the arrow,,or lets the arrow paradox a little easier,, I think a tight grip can sometimes make the person shooting think the bow has hand shock,, I think I am just a fan of a looser grip,a tighter grip can also line the bow up in a way the arrow does not like,,a loose grip lets the bow line up in the hand in a natural consistant way,,for me,,, getting a self bow to shoot well seems to come pretty natural for me,, one thing is ,,, you have to be able to shoot well,, to know if the bow is shooting well,, Im not at the top of my game shooting,, but shoot well enough to get a good release and good arrow flight,, if a bow is difficult to tune,, then there is something wrong with it,, that needs to be corrected first,, then getting the arrow to shoot well will not be a problem,, its usually several minor things causing the problem,, maybe just brace height,,:) or your release,,:):):) I have helped bow students make a bow,, when they shot,, the arrow was loud hitting the bow,, ok some would think wrong spine,, string alignment etc etc,, Ok I shoot the bow ,, dead quite good arrow flight,, thats my 2 cents,,

Back in the 90s Jim Hamm and Tim Baxter held a selfbow jamboree to test white wood verses Yellowas the best bow wood I took a Hackberry and and Hickory axe handle spliced inthe handle of the bow, tested around 200 bows four days of bow building. RTTEL STIX BOWS had staves ansd a class finished the bows in two days. end result is basic bow weight plus 100 for arrow speed 540 grains. biggest difference was design and craftsmenship. Really enjoyed that camping trip

I thought Tim Baker "won" with a pecan bow? Jawge

I think that’s right Jawge. Arvin

Snydleyed-it has been just over 20 years and we still play in Marshall every July...you need to come to the next one!

Pecan won??? bite your tongue... LOL We have learned a lot from those tests and even more since then about testing... our MoJam Flight shoot is a great example in that we shoot a 10gpp arrow from bows and measure the distance the arrow travels. Several bows have cleared 200 yards the past 2 years.

Pecan won and in ...of all places, too...won in a very high humidity environment. How do I know that? I spent 4 months there in summer and early fall doing Basic and AIT. Hot and humid.

My wife and I went to Mojam in 2003. I spent a good portion of time under a tree drinking water. LOL. I'm not 23 anymore.

Yes, indeed, Bowaholic, we've learned that the right design for the wood is vitally important.

Jawge

also,,, most guys were shooting b 50,, I dont think any fast flight, Tims bow was shooting linen I believe,, I think the only bow with linen,, anyway it was fun,, I still have the bow I was shooting then,,

The only time I "grip" my bows, and particularly my selfbows, is when I'm carrying them. When I shoot them, like any of my bows, the hold is loose with the pressure pulled into the web of my thumb/finger at draw. I get zero hand shock and always a clean loose. Some bows are more particular than others, but I have yet to find one that won't be pretty sweet when you let it rest in that hand spot. My fingers are around the bow but with no pressure during the shot process, whether hunting or just plinking..it's the same.

I have found some selfbows are very particular about brace height and it doesn't take much change to make them fuss a little bit. Once you find a good brace for your form, you are pretty much set. I'm shooting 41# at my draw on a Brad Smith osage bow and getting clean flight with 47# cedars with 160 grain tips and 29.5" length. String is a modern low stretch material. I also have a near 50 yard point-on with that setup with my 27+ inch draw. It will do anything I need it to do this fall in the hunting woods.

Hedge, I shoot split finger and anchor under my cheek bone, and have a pretty good release. My point-on is typically around the 60 yard mark with laminated bows in the 45# range. I don't shoot a hunched-over style, I shoot more erect with all of my bows and for long shots I lean back at the waist. I was taught to do it that way and it has always worked out very well for me.

I don't use the arrow for distances under about 40 yards anyway, I rely on my peripheral memory I guess you would call it. Some folks call it 'instinctive'. Well, I guess I do too. I have no trouble with ten yard shots and can usually cluster them pretty well. That has worked for me for over 50 years. Anyway, I checked it again, and it seems to be near center at 47 yards, when I hold everything together well.

HH, only if you don't do it regularly. It's not big deal to me and the way I shoot.

Snydleyed,,,

If im not mistaken,,wasnt that whole debate and subsequent testing,spawned on this very forum???

I think Tim wrecked the tiller on that pecan bow by leaving it standing unattented in a corner for a year.

Grip a selfbow per its design or build/buy a selfbow per your grip. Maintaining good tiller health is paramount with these selfbows. For me, holding my bow tight or loose, is a matter of having a wider arrow pass or one cut closer to center.

So, if you can shoot a glass bow well, then you'll have no trouble shooting a good well built selfbow! Learn proper selfbow care and handling. Enjoy........Art

HH I have a 26” draw and shoot a 29” back of point arrow. Point on not sure but probably about 25-28 yds. 50# selfbow. If I was to shorten that arrow 3” it would probably get my point on considerably farther out. That is if I shot point on. Arvin

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