So I’m used to knowing a patch of ground (public or private) and putting in the work late winter, spring and summer to try and understand what we have for critters. This past weekend as I walk my hunting area I see more trail cameras than deer trails to hang them on. I love photography but have we lost the essence of hard work scouting and the element of surprise??

And don't forget loss of woodsmanship. It's becoming a lost art. People don't read sign much anymore, they google apps. Their loss.

No it's the lazy mans way to hunt if you want to call it hunting

Must be you are located in a populated area. I have yet to run into a trail camera in the areas I hunt, well....except for one my buddy had out. ;) I think trail cameras tell you what was there, not what's going to be there. I have one that I use now and then but I have yet to see any bucks there once season arrives. Not everyone has ease of killing in mind, it's more curiosity than anything for some of us. I also think everytime you go out there with a camera to check or set, you educate thos deer. My guess is game cameras may save more deer than they give up.

I enjoy seeing what's been there, but it sure isn't a given as to what will be there when you are. You still have to get out and find the deer trails to know where to put a camera.

You have to know *where* to put that trail cam if you want to see much. Pinch points, edges, faint trails in the thickets, etc. Also minimize your impact while checking.

If you're thinking of putting a stand in a certain spot they can vefify your hunches - or shoot them down. Some years back I hunted a good looking spot and saw...nothing. Finally stuck a cam in there and found it was a great spot - after midnight!

It's a tool, but if you don't use it smart it won't do much for ya.

By the way, that picture of that "little" 8 pointer was taken with a cheap $27 camera from Walmart.

I've seldom used them for scouting per say. I can read sign pretty good, and normally know where the animals are.

The main thing I have used them for is just to see what exactly is hanging around, and viewing all the pictures is very addicting. I love it.

4nolz compared it to being like running a trap line. Pretty close, and very satisfying/enjoyable.

Rick

I run 3-4 dozen every year in three states (40+ parcels) - to the person that said it's a lazy mans way - want to come run mine with me? Some of mine are 3 mile kayak trips and others are 2-4 miles of mt biking/walking. I have 15 active mineral sites that required walking in 50#s of mineral anywhere from 1-4 miles. I spend 100s of hours reviewing pictures and videos.

As far as having wordsmanship skills, lol, you don't just plop a camera up anywhere and expect to get pics of what you are after. Takes a lot of thought and planning - very similar to picking a tree.

I put way more than 10x the effort running trail cameras as I do hunting - easily. There isn't any way I could boots on the ground in so many areas/parcels of land. But then again i managed to find and kill pretty decent bucks every year. Like anything, you get back what you put on it.

Jay Massey had it figured out years ago.Technology will replace basic woodsmanship skills.Crossbows,compounds,trail cameras,and don't forget Ozonics.I'll stick to the Old School ways and have fun doing it the hard way.

Wadr, Jay M was wrong - technology may augment basic woodsmanship but will never replace it.

PS Crossbows, compounds and even high power rifles don't shoot themselves. Easy to disparage a skill you haven't bothered to master. No? Spend some time at your local rifle range a few days before opener and watch the goobers - it will both amuse and terrify you ;-)

all this coming from men typing on a keyboard lol..... seriously just jostling here. I use cameras to find the bucks I am after - mature bucks are not as patternable as most believe IMO.

I use the few cameras I have to just see what's out there, including trespassers. I don't have the time, money, or energy to actual try to pattern bucks with them.

Dont use them myself but have found a few on my property. painted them all purple lens and all. purple paint on trees means no treaspassing in IL.

Anyone that uses a trail cam is a loser. Lol. Jk.,I actually like em. They are fun and my age I need some fun

I am too lazy and cheap to use them. but I would use them otherwise :)

"mature bucks are not as patternable as most believe IMO."

Nope. Got pix of a nice one two years ago. Once in September, once in November during the rut. He got shot in early December a mile away and across three stretches of posted private property. Good luck with that!

"Personally I hate the damn things. I go to the woods to get away from being supervised and watched for a change"

^^^ This ^^^ And that's nicer than I could put it.

I see them on the game lands and state parks I hunt. Sometimes multiple cameras pointing at a single scrape. Sometimes with illegal bait in front of them.

Game Cams are just another tool available for your use. They don't make you more or less of a hunter. They surely don't make you a "lazy" hunter, because if you are going to really use them to pattern deer, you are going to have to put in some work.

As I said, they are just another tool - just like binoculars and spotting scopes some use for scouting.

yes and no is the truth.

Yes you get to see what's around at the time the camera took the pictures.

No is the percentage of the animals taken from the camera shots are sometimes disappointing.

These are wild animals and to have a stationary stand in one location and expect to shoot everything on cameras it's just not so.

If you gain experience you will find out.

Another problem is the day the picture was taken he might not be there again ever because the good one may have come by 1 time and now you're wasting a lot of time in hopes he shows.

Tells what's in your woods at the time picture was taken.

Or you burn out your stand going and getting the discs all the time. Many do this especially the inexperienced.

I traveled with a young guy that had 36 cameras and we spent a lot of time chasing deer that all eventually get nocturnal.

You burn your spot and screw them up.

And these were all baited stands. I wanted a white deer a couple years ago and we had cameras in 4 sets of woods surrounding this deer we thought and each time we had him on camera sat stand in eve or next morning 3 days in succession and he didn't show a couple years back. Buddy would call and say we missed him by a day or as if the deer knew this? LOL

Maybe the deer did? LOL They cant think and reason but I seen some I questioned on that.LOL

I often wonder how many people who complain about trail cameras being a lazy shortcut hunt out of tree stands.

Monitoring cameras are not the lazy act if you work at it. The ones who lip you don't know the difference most often they haven't walked this line or used this tool to aid in monitoring animals.

If you have experience you know and if you don't its lack of experience is all and you have to forgive those who don't know or understand.

I have used a trail camera in a different way. When I hunt whitetails from the ground I place a trail cam on a tripod next to or in front of my hiding spot aimed at where I think the deer will be. I set camera to video and extend the video time. I do this with the hope to get the monster buck on camera when I shoot. It hasn't worked out that way yet.

It's just a tool, you have to be smart enough to use them properly - cant fix stupid.

Just another tool people can use if they choose, just like treestands, binoculars, ground blinds, camo clothing, stick on rests, sight pins, cover scent etc., etc., etc.

People who look down their noses at how other people do things because it's not how they do it are a**holes in my opinion and I don't expect anyone to value my opinion nor do I care.

I don't even use them on my own property to see what's around. Enjoy interpreting the sign more although I can only guess at the timing. This spring I was checking out an apple tree in a small clearing surrounded by softwood thickets and came across 11 piles of bear s##t - 2 large and 9 small - and a few tufts of hair. I know there was a sow and at least two cubs using that thicket about 125yds from the cabin. Glad they weren't there as I went in though.

I like game cams.... caught these two rambunctious youngsters just a few days ago....

I have been hunting the same farms since a kid

and know exactly where they travel same places just differnet deer over the years

if crops rotate they still travel the same ways that they do to get to that field as in the past

I don’t use them but I understand the fun and reasons folks like them. Yes people have every right to set them out but I admit they are a bummer to see looking at you when your out sneaking along enjoying nature. Same feeling I get when I come across an old beer can left in the woods.

Great tool to catch trespassers, especially the real time via cell phone. I use many. Not much value to scouting deer, I know my properties well. Drones are great tools too.

I hunt with equipment that was built before they existed because of the challenge. They are not a part of who I am.

I’d never use a trail cam. I agree woodsmanship is going away. Lots of excuses for it. Throw bait out, trail cam tells you when to sit in your ladder and whammo you kill a deer and feel like a hunter. Glad I’m not that simple minded. To each his own. I worry though once they outlaw this stuff and no one remembers how to truly hunt who’s gonna be left to fight.

Hate to tell you Bowguy, you are simple minded if that's how you believe.

It aint just the 'huntable deer' that trail cams are good for, it's all the other stuff that passes by. I've gotten turkeys, coyotes, fox, bobcat, fisher, moose, raccoons, porcupines, grouse, bears, etc. on my cameras.

And Mike, no offense. Lots of guys like you out there.

There should be rules and laws re: placing cams on public land, state or federal. Same thing for drones. Nobody has the right to take stills or video's of me without permission. Drone users routinely ignore federal and state laws. Drones that fly over my property will be shot down, and I have almost two dozen "trail cams" put on my range land by trespass that I hope somebody try's to claim. Not a fan of users that think buying them somehow gives them rights they do not have.

I use them, and have for a long time. I enjoy looking at the pic's, they actually motivate me. It's not always easy getting up early and climbing a tree in the dark. But, when I think of what was in the area, and what may be back there again...I'm out of bed !

No, being "out there" motivates me and I like to be surprised what I come across and when that happens. Its a non needed technology that has been all to accepted by the hunting masses.

Well obviously using them on someone else's property is wrong. But as far as the drones the gubment already has them and knows what you are doing.

Some serious egos abound.

Larry do you lease the grazing or do you own it

"Nobody has the right to take stills or video's of me without permission."

If they're doing do on public land, yes they do.

The two topics that will ALWAYS start a war with traditional hunters are baiting and trail camera use. I fail to understand why people give a crap what others do?

Personally if I were you Mingo and seen that many trail cameras on my hunting grounds I'd be looking for new grounds.

I’ve bow hunted 45 years on mainly public land without a camera and have done pretty well, but this past year a buddy talked me into trying a camera, I bought a couple cameras to try and figure out why I wasn’t seeing a particular buck after I thought I had him figured out. Turned out I had not counted on another hunter walking through the middle of my setup. I think he was avoiding me and hunting days I wasn’t. After catching him on camera, I had a talk with him . It was public land and he had as much right there as I did but at least I found why things weren’t going near as planned. I think cameras have a place as others have said if your hunting multiple parcels and have limited time due to work etc. but they will never , ever, replace time in the woods. IMHO the cameras that connect to your portable device are another thing entirely, and I don’t agree with their usage .

Mr Hatfield you are wrong on public land. Anyone can take a photo of anyone one or anything on public land.

The name calling on those that use trail cams is a bit childish. I got real excited last year. My trail cam shot my buck for me. I am a little upset that it didn't gut it for me though.

And it is also against the law to shoot drones down also.

one day I saw 9 bucks within 50 yards of the stand I was in. 3 came within 15 yards of me. Not one went in front of the camera I had out pointing toward a trail. I like using trail cameras, but they don't show you everything

I do not us a trail camera. Jawge

Great balanced feedback, and as always appreciate the opinions! I’’ll continue to trust scouting, woodsman ship and the element of surprise until I can. Still love photography and someday I’ll be needing a hand for the lack footwork, time and presence needed to understand what’s in the area. Thanks for the messages and opinions - great group of folks!

Trail cameras are fun. I do not use them to inventory, name deer or make a hit list. I don’t trust them on public land.

I love trail cameras they are fun to use but a burden to get out the disc and reset and look at all the pictures all the time.

I have usually a couple cameras behind house to see the critters. I get to see who is roaming through.

Since Jan of 2018 I haven't been able to camera watch. I still have 2 cameras out on my club property. I am dying to see what's on those cameras that I haven't seen since then if they are still there.

It's a fun tool that you get to see a lot of varied wildlife that's not just deer. You see who is walking through your bush.

I don't have or never did have any cameras out on public lands though. I guess that's why my cameras have been kinda protected from theft.

I know guys that have lost expensive cameras on public lands as well as stands. Thieves are everywhere.

Also you don't get to see all the animals that are in your bush you only get the see the ones that come by where the camera is set out at so there's no guarantees that this is your bush animals holding there.

Its like anything you have to learn how to use them then you will know how and where to set out.

Use them or don't use them does it matter?

To who? You? Who really cares? LOL

We all play in the woods differently and it only should matter to you the way you want to and that's all.

If you really want to get fired up over cameras then what about the cameras that transmit to a computer or your phone?

Facebook can watch you in your tree now or even when take a piss in the woods those perverts.LOL

Some of you guys are funny, either embrace modern technology or don't, you can live in a cave "off grid" if you want but don't come around telling me I should. Still riding a horse to work?

" If you really want to get fired up over cameras then what about the cameras that transmit to a computer or your phone? "

We have a thread for that ;-)

As for facebook etc watching me, if they've got nothing better to do, let 'em! I'm kind of ugly, also boring to look at ;-)

I use them sparingly and only to get an idea of what’s in the area. I use maps in combination with woodsmanship and knowledge of what other hunters are doing to get on the most mature bucks in the area. Mostly public land. I set the few cameras I use for months before checking them. They might help me decide what area has the oldest buck to focus on. I’m not looking for antlers size but I want to play chess with the most mature bucks I can. All the woodsmanship in the world isn’t going to help you tell by sign if a buck is 3.5 or 6.5 years old. I’ve never had a camera tell me when and where to actually catch up with a buck though. I also think that can be misleading, sometimes you might discount an area and the buck was there daily, just off camera or get your hopes up because one big buck walked through, when it may have been a fluke.

" If a person takes a trail camera (or anything else) that is legally placed on state or federal land, they are a criminal, plain and simple. "

Whether it is placed there 'legally' or not, removing it is theft unless done by duly authorized law enforcement. Report it and let the law handle it.

To me scouting is a big part of why I enjoy bow hunting so much. I'm in the old school camp. I choose to scout. I'm o.k. with others using them. Just not for me.

Since when did running cameras prelude scouting? I have scouted every weekend (minus three) this year. Scouting gives you a snapshot in time and can help you formulate a plan. Cameras can tell you that your assumptions are correct. There are multiple ways to use a camera. Take inventory, soak all year in an area you cant hunt, etc.... Scouting and finding big rubs, old beds, scrapes tells you a buck was there once before - it does not tell you if he is still alive and how often he frequents the area 9resident or just a rut traveler). Cameras can help solidify some of that info.

Honestly its a great tool for me that helps ties all the pieces together from scouting - but to each his own.

Lots of hunters start the season with alot of pictures of big animals and end the season with alot of pictures of big animals and no meat in the freezer or antlers on the wall...I am fortunate to have started hunting before the trail camera era, where boots on the ground we're a necessity. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love using cameras as I enjoy observing wildlife both on foot, from a treestand or at my desk looking at pictures on my computer.

At least Mr Stout has come around a bit. Never thought I'd hear he was setting cameras out. But not for hunting!

How do you anti camera folks get to your hunting spot, Walk.

Don't know about other areas but I live in the middle of hundreds of square miles of National Forest. I have friends who lease grazing rights from the National Forest and they receive just that, the right to place their cattle on NF land. That's it. You don't have the right to deny public access, stop hunters, confiscate others property legally placed there and around here if you shoot down a drone, you best hope you weren't on camera when you did for you will go your arss to jail.

And one more thing, if I put out a camera on my land, does that mean I will magically loose my woodsmanship skills that I learned when many of you were kickin the slats in your cribs? I think not.

"If a person takes a trail camera (or anything else) that is legally placed on state or federal land, they are a criminal, plain and simple. "

The key words in all that are the words, "legally", "state", and "federal." When somebody trepasses on deeded land it's they who are "criminal". Harassment of livestock is also criminal as one drone user found out this spring. And, YES, I think there should be laws passed that prevent intrusion of personal space by drones everywhere.

Mr Hatfield, you in a previous thread, claimed to have 12 sections of public land leased. You also stated that you allowed no one to hunt nor trespass on this land. Could you possibly explain how you can have the right to deny public access to public land. Just curious, as someone with considerable experience with federally owned public land. Or maybe you were only speaking of land you personally own. If so, my bad.

Your bad.

He could be leasing land locked blm or national forest... Some states have laws regarding the use on cameras and drones. And many refuse to follow those laws, but most of us do. We use cameras for certain reasons, that many here just don't understand by your comments.

I use trail cameras, and love how guys think you're gonna put up a camera and think you'll see everything as it walks by your camera. If you don't know how game travels, were they travel to, you're not gonna get a lot of pictures. Love the comment about big bucks not being easy to pattern... I know several success whitetail outfitters and hunters that beg to differ. Also know these guys are after a certain age group of buck, or a pacific buck, not no lil buck that just happens to walk by their tree stand. Something to think about before opening your mouth and bashing guys that use cameras. Call me lazy? You forget, I don't sit in tree stands 1/4 mile from the road, don't hunt food plots or bait sites. Don't have woodsman ship? Then how do I know where to place cameras to catch game coming to or from bedding areas, which saddles they'll use?

With cams, I found that I have a nice 6x4 walking all around my hunting area during the day during the rut. Seen him in front of 3 of 7 cams in the daytime in two weeks time. That's good to know.

Also have night time pics of two big, clean tens, but never during the day. Good to know that, too.

And a bear was there a month ago. We ain't got bears in north AL, but they're showing up more and more. Awesome to know!

And they help me keep a certain trespassing law-man from going near my food plots without proof if he does.

grazing rights differ from full leasing or hunting rights leasing right?

BuzAl, yeah Oklahoma tried to tell us for several years that we had no mountain lions. Till hundreds of game cam pics started coming in.

4nolz, to the best of my knowledge (at least here) the USFS does not lease hunting rights to public land. Only grazing.

Two word response! Wow, thanks for your indulgence.

One more question; Can a 35# bow kill a drown?

I photographed each camera and it's location on my private property, took the photo's to the prosecutors office, removed them on their written advice, and took them to the Sheriff's office where they are waiting, with criminal complaint in hand, for a complainant to walk in and report them stolen. I'll continue to rely on that sort of legal advice instead of the internet. Yeah, my bad saying I would shoot drones down. Wrote while I was mad. But, this spring I successfully lodged both a criminal and civil complaint against the operator of one that used it to harass my cattle. Won't do anything not legal, but I will use everything in my list of legal rights to fight abusers.

Droan!!

Drone ;-)

And killing it is going to depend on shot placement...

LAL

Mr Hatfield my response was to the first two sentences in your first post only. You have all the right to do what you want on your property or property you lease. Except of course the drone thing.

Grazing leases involve only the right to graze and pay for each animal unit. Gives you the right to pay, control cattle's access to all moving water, lose 2 or more a year to random shootings, Watch "sportsmen" try to see how far they can chase cattle down a road, seed roadsides and open meadows with approved seed that you pay for, destroy noxious weeds ,there from vehicle travel, and work with some great managers of BLM and railroad land. That's why I still have leases that have been in place for more than 65 years. Cattle are counted in and out. You try cheating or abusing the land you are gone.

I have no real problem with them, just for me don't see the need. Pappy

I think Trail Cams bring us closer to the supermarket Mentality in the woods . What next? Drones. Stay competitive!

I have one I put out in the summer occasionally to see what is eating my garden, blueberries or muscadines. When the big black cherry tree near my driveway starts dropping fruit I put one up to see what deer are in my yard at night eating wild cherries and the bushes in my flower beds.

I put one up by my mailbox to see what was rubbing the pine tree I planted. Turns out the dang bucks were lined up to take their turn rubbing the tree that subsequently died along with every other tree I planted in the same spot.

I put one up in my yard but not where I hunt, I would rather be surprised when I am in the woods and a deer shows up.

The picture is of the bucks having a go at my poor little pine tree. I could have shot the big one during the rut out the back door, he was chasing a doe in the woods at the edge of my yard at noon but that's not my style either. I live in the country so shooting and hunting around my house is legal.

Here is the cherry tree next to my driveway and about 40 yards from my house a few weeks ago.

AGAIN how do you hunters get to your hunting spot, walk? Heaven forbid if you use modern equipment like a truck.

What others use is no ones business.

Jon, perhaps its time to take a walk outside. Might take your raincoat.

You won't get through to em. And we wonder why...

Jon I just picked up a drone, 10 internet cameras that sends pics to my iPhone xyz and crossbow - have the equipment loaded in my military grade Humvee and ready to scout — truly appreciate the guidance!!

John Wallace Afton MN

Good Heavens, NO! Much like aiming, trail cams are cheating. It's not traditional. You can't use technology to have the Easter Morn' discovery moments. That's not traditional at all.

My condolences to your family, who are hungry, it's all about ethics and a perceived traditional culture. Make sure each morning is a discovery event. Best of luck!

LOL

I've slowed down some, but still spend a lot of time in the woods and log many miles scouting.. for places to put my game cams.

95* here and I'm out hanging stands. No game cameras out because I already know where I want my stands. Next week I'll put my cameras out because their just a hoot and lots of fun pics. I've had pics of deer, hogs, mountain lions, deer fights ( doe &buck) , coons, hawks, turkey and all manner of small game and fowl. I think some of you guys need to get out more. ;-)

Oh yeah, forgot, many, many bears.

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