Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


This will tell you how well you shoot.

Messages posted to thread:
Babysaph 13-Aug-19
mparker762 14-Aug-19
Will tell 14-Aug-19
Dry Bones 14-Aug-19
Bassman 14-Aug-19
George D. Stout 14-Aug-19
Dan In MI 14-Aug-19
Bassman 14-Aug-19
Bowmania 14-Aug-19
DT1963 14-Aug-19
Viper 14-Aug-19
Bassman 14-Aug-19
Lost Arra 14-Aug-19
Nemophilist 14-Aug-19
DanaC 14-Aug-19
Supernaut 14-Aug-19
DT1963 14-Aug-19
Lowcountry 14-Aug-19
UpNorth 14-Aug-19
Draven 14-Aug-19
Pdiddly 14-Aug-19
Tree 14-Aug-19
RymanCat 14-Aug-19
westrayer 14-Aug-19
DT1963 14-Aug-19
old buck 14-Aug-19
Chairman 14-Aug-19
Viper 14-Aug-19
Hedge 14-Aug-19
GF 14-Aug-19
Sawtooth (Original) 14-Aug-19
grizz 14-Aug-19
George D. Stout 14-Aug-19
dean 14-Aug-19
Linecutter 14-Aug-19
babysaph 14-Aug-19
babysaph 14-Aug-19
2 bears 14-Aug-19
babysaph 14-Aug-19
babysaph 14-Aug-19
NG1241 14-Aug-19
Missouribreaks 14-Aug-19
Missouribreaks 14-Aug-19
Babysaph 14-Aug-19
Mission man 15-Aug-19
Medley12 15-Aug-19
Buzz 15-Aug-19
savage1 15-Aug-19
DT1963 15-Aug-19
r.grider 15-Aug-19
Bassman 15-Aug-19
GF 15-Aug-19
shandorweiss 16-Aug-19
Medley12 16-Aug-19
tecum-tha 16-Aug-19
GF 16-Aug-19
shandorweiss 16-Aug-19
fdp 16-Aug-19
GF 16-Aug-19
fdp 16-Aug-19
Hedge 17-Aug-19
Jeffhalfrack 17-Aug-19
zetabow 18-Aug-19
From: Babysaph
Date: 13-Aug-19




I recently started to shoot some spot Targets. I feel lie then tell you how well you shoot.

From: mparker762
Date: 14-Aug-19




Squirrels will too.

From: Will tell
Date: 14-Aug-19




I have a 17 yard shot in my basement and used to entertain my sons buddies by shooting playing cards. Lately I'm lucky to hit the bag.lol

From: Dry Bones
Date: 14-Aug-19




Shooting spots, to me, only proves you can focus on a small object. IF you want to know how well you shoot, try shooting at a blank silhouette with no lines or distinguishing marks. Your spot then becomes mental. I can shoot a 1" disk, or close to it every time at 15ish yards, and not miss by more then a couple inches at 20. BUT if I shoot at a silhouette my pattern spreads out. Shooting a wheelie a few weeks back a buddy had white dots in the middle of some black rings. they were 1/4" white spots Was able to hit that spot almost every single time, just had to find the white spec the further out we stepped. Nothing impressive about this especially with a compound, but my point is, neither of us shot that tight without something to reference to, be it a spot or previous arrow.

-Bones

From: Bassman Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 14-Aug-19




Their is hunting accuracy,and target accuracy. To me it is two different games.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Aug-19




Accuracy is accuracy. Once I started field archery, and then indoor archery, I became a much....much better shot in the hunting woods. They both require good form, and that 'spot' shooting will carry over to help finding a 'spot' on game. Keep shooting those spots JR. There's always a spot on a deer, you just have to be able to see it.

From: Dan In MI
Date: 14-Aug-19




I never truly get the "shoot at a blank target" view. EVERY deer I have shot was not a blank target. There is ALWAYS a hair out of place, a muscle ripple, bone projection etc... to give a spot to focus on. It's not like they are dead smooth like new cardboard.

From: Bassman Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 14-Aug-19




George, an 8 ring will get you a deer , but it is not what I am looking for when shooting target.Target accuracy is a more precise game in my mind any how.Other opinions may vary.

From: Bowmania Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Aug-19




I agree with George. There's a time in your hunting practice when you should shoot at spots. You miss a spot, you know it. That tells you the gap was wrong (if your form was good).

And then there's a time to project a spot on a 3D target. You miss that spot and you didn't remember the gap.

In general, when shoot at spots, all misses l and r are form related and u and d are aiming mistakes. This just doesn't show up as well on a 3D.

Bowmania

From: DT1963
Date: 14-Aug-19




There is a big difference in first arrow accuracy and the ability to consistently maintain accuracy shot after shot. I never shoot more than one arrow at a time, fetch it, shoot again - shooting groups is not even a concern of mine - its all about the very first arrow of the day.

From: Viper
Date: 14-Aug-19




Guys -

I can guarantee you, you'll learn more about your shooting in an hour shooting a spot in a controlled environment than you will in a month of "stumping". Only problem is you may not like what you see.

Viper out.

From: Bassman Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 14-Aug-19




Spot targets tell you how well you shoot.Correct.Shoot an indoor round at 20 yds ,and that will tell how well you shoot also. You are shooting at a 1 inch spot.My friend ,and brother because of their success in killing deer as hunters thought they might want to compete at the Lancaster shoot here in Pa.They geared up with professional target equipment.They soon found out they were not the pin point archers they thought they were, but are still excellent hunters.After a full winter of shooting they gave up an the idea of going to Lancaster, and admitted how difficult target archery really was to shoot.Neither they, or I could turn in the scores that are turned in every year at Lancaster.

From: Lost Arra
Date: 14-Aug-19




I'm with George too. A successful hunting shot results in a dead deer but it is not necessarily accurate. Spots, bale and elevated (treestand) shooting is all a part of my practice before the season. (Try spots from a stand sometime... ouch).

From: Nemophilist
Date: 14-Aug-19




Shooting spots is ok now and then but after awhile I find it boring. I like to mix up my shooting with bullseye targets, 3D Targets, and stump shooting. To include known distances and unknown distances.

Variety is the spice of life, for me anyway. :)

From: DanaC
Date: 14-Aug-19




Never heard anyone complain about being too dam' accurate to hunt well.

From: Supernaut
Date: 14-Aug-19




Nemophilist X2, I like to mix it up!

From: DT1963
Date: 14-Aug-19




"I can guarantee you, you'll learn more about your shooting in an hour shooting a spot in a controlled environment than you will in a month of "stumping". Only problem is you may not like what you see."

I disagree with this 100% I don't get why people thing accuracy is not important stump shooting. You can certainly shot a spot with every arrow.

I respect you guys that like to punch paper - definitely are better at that than I will ever be, or want to be. But frankly, if you can not place that fist shot "on spot" it really doesn't matter if you can group the next 100 in a 3 inch circle. To suggest that stump shooting or one arrow at a time demands any less accuracy is simply Hogwash. And I can say the same thing, you can learn a lot with an hour of stump shooting you will never find out shooting on a range for a month. Two different goals.

From: Lowcountry
Date: 14-Aug-19




I'm waiting for the "Fake Liberal News, Hogwash, Killers, no spots on game" comments...

From: UpNorth Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Aug-19




Every target has a "spot". Most archers that have commented on this thread would be shocked not only how quickly any shot to shot form discrepancies show themselves but to how quickly their all around accuracy would improve if they diversified their chosen "game". Only stumps, only spots, only 3ds will only get you so far. I prefer to hit what I'm aiming at regardless of where I am or what I'm shooting at so I shoot year round in all different fields.

From: Draven
Date: 14-Aug-19




Viper, you are right. Stumping is great, but looking forward for someone who's stumping and even when he hits the stump he is acknowledging the miss because he was 5" off from the spot he aimed at. I think there is a difference between what some understand "being accurate" and "hitting what you look at". This will be revealed or not when you "shoot paper".

From: Pdiddly
Date: 14-Aug-19




Lowcountry!! LMAO!!

From: Tree
Date: 14-Aug-19




If you're not picking a spot what are you shooting at???

From: RymanCat
Date: 14-Aug-19




Dead animals birds and fish will as well!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

From: westrayer
Date: 14-Aug-19




Tennis balls tossed about the ground and shot with arrows tipped with Judo points.

From: DT1963
Date: 14-Aug-19




"I'm waiting for the "Fake Liberal News, Hogwash, Killers, no spots on game" comments... "

lol...… typically those comments air right after the "this is the right way, you have to see your arrow, ain't no such thing as instinctive, and chest thumping I won this and that, have you seen my youtube page and book.... " comments spew forth.

From: old buck Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 14-Aug-19

old buck's embedded Photo



Yes...pick a spot.

From: Chairman
Date: 14-Aug-19




Stumping gives you the ranging ability spot shooting gives you the accuracy.

From: Viper
Date: 14-Aug-19




Guys -

"Stumping gives you the ranging ability spot shooting gives you the accuracy."

Sure, I agree, but without the accuracy first, how the heck are you going to range anything? Did you miss because you misjudged the distance or because you suck?

That's a very real question, kinda like shooting a rifle with loose sights.

Viper out.

From: Hedge
Date: 14-Aug-19




Shooting paper Dots with Deck Shoes and Kefa makes you one thing.

Consistant nothing more.

Shooting KD ranges with high power makes you a good KD shooter. Not a Warrior. Takes alot more for Presidents 100 guy or Gal to be a great Booger Killing American.

Sounds harsh but life is.

Hedge

From: GF
Date: 14-Aug-19




Sounds like Cat’s got a new drinking buddy!

Kinda early, though, ain’t it??

JMO, there’s a reason for keeping score in sports. Some guys here just wanna play Archery Tee-Ball, I guess, but if you want to know how good you really are, you’ve gotta keep score. Not all the time, but if you’re interested in improving, you’ll never know if you’re making progress if you don’t check in against an unforgiving, impartial standard from time to time.

From: Sawtooth (Original) Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 14-Aug-19




Bassman has the right idea.

From: grizz
Date: 14-Aug-19




GF, that right there was funny.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Aug-19




Practice how you like, and of course mixing it up is always good. Guys who decry shoot spots though should think about what theyy are saying. I'm living proof that spot/target shooting will improve your consistency. Trying to tell anyone it won't make you a better shot in the field just isn't true. Consistency will make you better no matter where you loose the string.

I'm a believer in roving/stump shooting, but I still pick a spot to hit...and not just a big stump. Shooting at a spot is no different indoors or out and it wil 100% make you better wherever you shoot.

From: dean
Date: 14-Aug-19




My favorite pre-deer season spot is a dry milkweed pod, in early summer i stick dandelions on my target. With a small object it is either a hit or a miss, close don't count, you can always get close, but a hit is a hit, period.

From: Linecutter
Date: 14-Aug-19




Tennis balls, Spot targets, Blank Target shooting, Stumping the only shot that really counts is that very first one. That is the only shot you will get at a live animal. No warm up, setting in the cold, heart pounding that is the tell tale shooting, can you do it consistently? Is your first shot your best shot each time you shoot, keeping it in the kill zone when you shoot? Any shots after the first one is just practice, so maybe the next time, you will be able to make that first one count. DANNY

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 14-Aug-19




What Bassman said.

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 14-Aug-19




Good point Draven. I think that somehow stumping gives you a false sense of how well you are shooting. JMO

From: 2 bears
Date: 14-Aug-19




The biggest difference between shooting paper and stumping. You have all the holes in the paper as harsh evidence. You can't forget the misses or think you came a lot closer than you did. >>>>-----> Ken

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 14-Aug-19




Hedge. Huh??

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 14-Aug-19




Well I am just a dumb ole boy but if all my shots after the first one were kill shots I would get that first bad one out of the way on my way out of the cabin. That way I know Im good on the next shot. LOL

From: NG1241 Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 14-Aug-19




I learned a long time ago to NOT pick a spot! Visualize an exit and shoot to it. When I shot my Bison I shot tit twice right where the spot was behind the front leg. Got liver both times. When it turned I visualized where I wanted the arrow to come out and I shot to that spot. The arrow ended up in the far front shoulder, the bull locked his hind legs together blew blood twice and fell over. To prove my point, take a cardboard box taped shut out to the range. Throw it down and look at it. You can see seven of the corners bit not the eighth. Visualize where that corner is and shoot to it. You will surprised how you can,t hit a corner you can,t see. Those 3D target Bulls eyes only work if you have a 90 degree angle. In other words, DON,T PICK A SPOT, PICK AN EXI!!!

From: Missouribreaks
Date: 14-Aug-19




The key is to successful hunting is to be as accurate as you can...then get as close as you can.

From: Missouribreaks
Date: 14-Aug-19




Sorry for "is" twice.

From: Babysaph
Date: 14-Aug-19




Close is the key for hunting.

From: Mission man
Date: 15-Aug-19




Most who disagree have never shot spots or indoor .

From: Medley12
Date: 15-Aug-19




I am a bowhunter, excited as season as getting closer...

I am willing to admit what I think a lot of others won’t. How many times do we shoot our hunting setup and say “good enough” or “that’s a dead deer.” THAT is what is getting boring, to me. Don’t get me wrong, I know some of you are really on it with your shooting, and good for you.

Just spent a $1000 on a new target setup, super excited about it getting here (couple weeks, Viper) I want to take archery to another level. I don’t want to settle on “good enough” I’m not looking to compete, don’t have the time. But I’m going to get serious with the paper, serious with my shot. Paper seems the best way to do it.

Goal: instead of saying “that’s a dead deer” I’d rather not have to say nothing at all

From: Buzz
Date: 15-Aug-19

Buzz's embedded Photo



From: savage1
Date: 15-Aug-19




Inches, feet, quarts, gallons and spots. Honest weights and measures.

Spots measure accuracy and the equation is repeatable form x number of shots.

Jack Nicolson said,"the truth, you can't handle the truth!" (A few good men)I think it was.

If it will help, hang a Hank of fur to shoot at for the fur accurate. Lol

From: DT1963
Date: 15-Aug-19




"Most who disagree have never shot spots or indoor." another out there assumption. Says who?

Just because some of us prefer to pick a spot, retrieve an arrow, pick a new spot, repeat..... doesn't mean we have never shot targets or indoors. That's just ridiculous.

I've done both. Stump shooting and shooting one arrow at a time is a far superior method for hunting (at least for me)and I know immediately when my form breaks down and why.

And truth be told, most archers, without a coach or videoing themselves, really cannot self identify what they are doing right or wrong (if there really is a right or wrong) and often repetitive shooting without a good coach is just as likely to engrain poor shooting mechanics. I use to think I was a terrible shot, until I started watching the worlds best on youtube and seeing how "inaccurate" they can be. I LOL when I hear the internet crowd making claims to their shooting prowess that exceeds what the folks winning the world titles do on video.

Give it a rest guys there is more than one way to skin a cat.

From: r.grider
Date: 15-Aug-19




Bassman, im sorry, i cant see how target accuracy, and hunting accuracy are two different things. Accuracy is accuracy.

From: Bassman Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 15-Aug-19




I have given my opinion, and still believe it to be true in my experience. We can agree to disagree. Some others agree with me ,and some don,t. I am fine with it either way. JMO. Good shooting,and hunting.

From: GF
Date: 15-Aug-19

GF's embedded Photo



I hafta disagree, Randy. Hunting accuracy is the 8-ring; the difference between an 8” pie plate and a 4” target spot is over 50 square inches vs. 12.5. A factor of FOUR.

Last night I took my first shot in 4 weeks. From about 23 yards, most guys would congratulate themselves for being dead on bit a shade low, but the spot makes it clear that I was WAY out.

From: shandorweiss
Date: 16-Aug-19




Whether you pick a spot out of some feature on an animal or stump or shoot at a piece of paper, ball or tee, the smaller the spot you shoot at the better your shooting will be. Our eyes and brain have evolved to identify boundaries between things as our way of putting together a visual picture of the world. Our eyes are constantly moving and giving the brain feedback about changes in depth, color, light, etc. in what we're looking at. Is that a snake or a stick? We're looking at the edges to determine that. When people use larger targets, e.g. a 4" circle at 20 yards, they tend to shoot all around the edges of the circle. Unless they are masters at concentration. We think if we shoot at a larger target we are more likely to hit it. But the opposite is true. The larger the target is, the bigger our group is or the further out a single shot will be. If you shoot at a 1" circle from 20 yards, your group will more likely be around the edges of the 1", rather than around the edges of a 4" circle. For target shooting I mostly shoot at foam balls of different diameters. The smallest I can see at any distance. Less than 1" at 25 yards. At 50-60 yards a 1.7" ball looks pretty small. But it's still bigger than a spot. If I get an arrow or two in or near it, the area of the ball I can see becomes smaller and then I aim for whatever tiny patch I can see. Shooting instinctively. It works, try it. Use the smallest spot you can see at any distance.

From: Medley12
Date: 16-Aug-19




Great post and here’s an idea I want to add to that. Pick an item, a small circle, whether it’s a half dollar, pickle jar lid... some use a red dot, like they see through a red dot scope, whatever... I use an orange golf ball

Whether I’m shooting a spot, a deer, a stump, whatever... my mind can project my little orange golf ball on whatever I want to shoot. When I am able to do this, my shots are noticeably better.

From: tecum-tha Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 16-Aug-19




A spot target will show you how good you shoot from a specific distance repeately. That's it. It has the spot there to help your concentration. You can punch paper all day long, shooting in the field/woods with light and shadow and ral terrain features is a complete different game. A field archery course is probably still one of the best trainers for shooting under hunting conditions. For verification: Go to a 3D shoot, pay your dues, but shoot from where you think you can kill and not from the stakes. Did you "kill" the 3D target you shot at? Would your arrow have pentrated the vital area? This will tell you pretty quick what your kill range for specific size game will be. If you get a perfect "kill" at the end you are a good shooter and will be a good hunter. I like to shoot for myself doing this and I will know what I can do, what I would and would not do.

From: GF
Date: 16-Aug-19




“A spot target will show you how good you shoot from a specific distance repeately. That's it.”

You’re assuming that nobody ever shoots spot targets from random distances, uphill/downhill shooting angles, odd positions, in screwball lighting, etc.

But just a few posts up, those of you who were paying attention will have noticed that I had to use the flash on my camera to get a pic of my First Shot effort, which was taken at 23 yards from a somewhat elevated position as dictated by CD, except I had to pad his 18-yard standard in order to get the height. Not everybody stands indoors at 50 feet all day long.

The thing here is this: KEEPING SCORE is what it’s all about. If you really want to know whether your shooting is improving or not, you have to have a good BS Detector, and there is nothing like a scorecard to provide that. Funny thing is, I think a lot of Trad Shooters don’t really want to know whether they’re getting any better or not - let alone knowing exactly how good they really are - because they already know the sad truth of the matter. No sense rubbing it in!

But JMO, there’s nothing about choosing to limit your hunting shots to 17.4 yards which requires a person to pretend to be perfectly happy with being unable to smack the middle of a target at anything past 18.5.

Seems to me that it’s (quite frankly) a ROYAL Kick In The Pants to see my arrows dropping more-or-less neatly in line, forming groups that are maybe my brace- height in width and as much as 2 or 3 or 4 bowstrings in height from 50 out to about 90 yards away. It’s not that I plan on hunting like I think I’m some kind of Dire Wolfpup, but DAMN, it’s gratifying to ten-ring a 3D blackbear target from about 40 yards out through the trees and brush... And who knows? Maybe someday when a deer ducks my string and turns a 12-yard Gimmie into a real potential disaster, I’ll be able to settle into a 60-yard follow-up shot like I was just another day at the club, rather than having to pray that the animal beds down and has the sense to stay put and die there, rather than wandering across a forbidden property line.

From: shandorweiss
Date: 16-Aug-19




Some of you guys speak as though target practice and shooting is a different sport than bow hunting, and does not prepare one for "real life" hunting shots.

I wonder what Howard Hill would say to that. The world's greatest archer... then and still is, IMO. He won something like 180 tournaments in a row. A feat that may never be duplicated or beaten. He also was an expert hunter. Somehow, I don't think he would feel there is a difference between shooting at paper and animals. Or any of the amazing trick shots he did.

From: fdp
Date: 16-Aug-19




If you pick a spot, shoot 1 arrow, retrieve it, and repeat, you're still shooting spots. And if you are honest with that you see, you can still tell how good you are shooting, or not. At least when I do it I'm still interested in how close to, or how many times I hit the spot.

From: GF
Date: 16-Aug-19




So fess up, Frank - you’re KEEPING SCORE, aren’tcha???

From: fdp
Date: 16-Aug-19




Yep, I am.

From: Hedge
Date: 17-Aug-19




What Tacumtha said

Hedge

From: Jeffhalfrack
Date: 17-Aug-19




Tell you what how about we put some spots on stumps,,and let these fellers with those strong opinions take a walk in the woods,,,,I'm betting my money on Mr Stout ,,!! Or how about a video ?? Lol with all do respect cause I have learned loads from these guys thanks JeffW

From: zetabow
Date: 18-Aug-19




As I don't Bowhunt I don't muddy the waters.

I enjoy spots and 3D, Field you have National and World records, I try an align my practice scores with those records in practice and then again in competition.

BB Stringwalking WR's are way above my pay grade but they were done with Clicker and full Stab setup, I'm trying with WA legal BB setup, don't think I will ever get there with this setup but it sure is great fun trying.





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