I have never gap shot, but it certainly seems like a great way to go for consistency. My question is, how do you see your tip for shooting in low light conditions where most of my at game shots occur. Thanks

One technique is to clock one blade of your broad-head to TDC and then put a drop of dayglow paint on the top back corner of that blade and viola...a nice bright sight pin from which to gap or maybe even be like "spot-on" at 15-20yds ;)

White Out works if you want to do that.

The beauty of learing gap to start is if you have to shoot instinctive you can.

IT takes thousand of arrow to learn the gap instinctively, because your doing it subconsciously (not thinking). I teach a gap in about 2 to 4 shots.

I asked Byron if he was instinctive or shot gap. He said he was instinctive. I asked how he shot those 100 yard shots. He said those he gapped. I asked what the difference was and he said, "on the close shots, I know the gap so well I'm instinctive." Makes a lot of sense to me.

Bowmania

^^THAT^^

Good post Bow

One can secondary aim like Hill instructed and do it very fast after a bunch of consistent shots. The consistent shot form is key to any mechanical aim. Don't look at your arrow, see it is your secondary. If you want to look away from the target, do it without releasing. Looking at the arrow and then back to the target confuses the brain. Every person with consistent form that i helped with secondary aiming Hill style gap was done with the same parameter, a large round bale in a mowed and flat alfalfa field and we start at point on. For most split finger longbow shooters that runs from 45 to 55 yards. When point on starts working for them it is time to move in. Shooting point on helps someone with a longbow go for power and hard releases. Then bit at a time start working in, without looking at the arrow, but acknowledging where it was. By the time they at 15 yards, it was becoming an automatic response. The session the automatic response kicked in quicker and they were shooting am informed instinctive at 20 yards and in. Right now my informed instinctive right now shooting left hand is about 30 yards and about 45 yards right hand. i need to work more on my left hand shooting at longer ranges.

I tried glow in the dark tape on the front end of my arrows once with limited success--- seems like as the sun faded they would lose their charge by last light. I now gap off a point on my riser for shots closer than 20 and use a contrasting sideplate so ive got a quick reference.

Ive shot at last light only when ive felt the hold was right. When the " gapstinctive stars" don't align, it's better to pass on the shot.

I know that this is not exactly lining up with John's instructions, but it is a short cut for those newer to trad longbow shooting. Having confidence is great for clearing the mind and eliminating second guesses. I have seen a number of shooters develop repeatable form at ten yards or less, just to have it blow up at 20 yards. That type of TP comes easy with small targets that one is afraid to miss.

I have 2015 eye sight, and very good low light vision.

That's with my glasses on.

So, it's simple for me.

When it's to dark for me to see the tip of my arrow, it is past legal light to shoot, so I don't.

Rick

"When it's to dark for me to see the tip of my arrow, it is past legal light to shoot, so I don't."

That there. Pretty much a no-brainer to me.

Briar, If you can't see the tip of your arrow you should not shoot at a deer anyway. I am sure someone will take issue with this since I posted it but you asked so I answered.

Yes most of the time if you can’t see the tip of your arrow it’s past legal shooting time. Many times I’m hunting the shade side of the mountain and hiding up in a tree (hemlocks) so its not always past legal shooting hours when I can’t see so I put that glowing paint on the tip of my broadheads. If I can’t see it it’s time to go.

Let us remember folks that some well canopied bottoms can be pretty dark even at mid-day and especially so when dark clouds blot out the sun and moreover?...it can get pretty dang dark in those same bottoms well before legal sunset.

This is not to argue against the good sense that you don't shoot what you can't see but there are some very viable options for diligently dealing with low-light hunting conditions and "THAT" is what the OP was asking about.

If you have to go through all that, why not just put a pin sight on the bow and be done with it?

I agree with Woods Walker

Put a pin sight on the bow? Wow, never thought of that...

Our legal shooting time is 1/2 hour past sunset. I would say in the early full foilage season with any cloud cover you are climbing down because you can't see if bucks are legal 15 minutes before that. In my compound days I shot several in legal time with fiber optic pins and a light on my sight.

Seems I'd be giving up a half hour, the best half hour to be able to clearly see any dark colored tip, which most are, to be effective shooting that way at that time.

A point has been brought up here in a few posts, and that's a stupid law (that we need) vs ethical shots.

September, thick leave cover and a rainy cloudy day, if your law is 1/2 hour after sunset, you won't able to kill a deer unless you're on the edge of the field. Too dark. For some reason, I think it's even worse in the AM, with the same rule 1/2 hour before sunrise.

Now take the other extreme, cold December AM or PM, no leaves and 2 inches of snow cover. Add a full moon and you could hunt all night. But with no moon you can probably see a pin at 1/2 hour after sun up or down. Same rule/law.

I'd take a bet that the way we hunt we can make a shot 10 -15 minutes later or earlier than a compounder. Does that mean we should take the shot? That's where the ethics come in.

Personally I don't really pay attention to the law. For a couple of reasons. I can't see my watch without glasses, LOL. And more important I have a minimum size for a deer that I'll shoot. So if I can't count points/judge size, it's too late to shoot.

Works pretty good and I'm never in danger of breaking the law. Although, once pretty early in the season I saw a buck in an opening about a sundown, knowing he's going to come my way. He's over my minimum which was easy to tell with a 1/2 hour of shooting left, but he's moving like a friggin' snail. He walked by my stand 3 minutes after shooting. I know I could have killed him he was at 13 yards. No biggie, it's early season. I'll still get him. Next time he came by it was 45 minutes after shooting. I couldn't get out of my tree at the end of legal shooting or I would have scared him.

Great learning experience for me and worth not shooting him. Anyone know what the mistake was???

I should have moved the stand after seeing him the first time. You learn a lot by not killing animals, especially if you have a high minimum.

Bowmania

In our state you are illegal entering or exiting the woods before or after legal shooting light which means you can't go in or come out in the dark. Of course I've been called a poacher but I go in and come out in the dark.

I would think if you cant see the arrow then you cant see the deer.

"I would think if you cant see the arrow then you cant see the deer." <<<<<<< That's kind of what I was thinking.

I guess I'm a gapper. Maybe a split vision. I'm not a string Walker, not a crawler either. I miss the old days. I always was an instinctive guy but struggled shooting high. Started referencing my arrow. I think gap after awhile becomes darn near instinctive. I've never put anything on my arrows to see them. Only time I felt cut short in my area was when I had a peep in my compound. Too dark is too dark, let them walk. Easy for me to say cause I live in an area that issues 5 tags a day. But after killing a metric ton of deer. I've realized, it's so much nicer to go home and sleep easy instead of laying there thinking about where your wounded deer is because I took a shot in the dark. To each there own. Promos makes a hog light now.

Babysaph, that has to be horrible to be made into an outlaw for doing what we have always done. I like to basically gap, without thinking about it. I see the arrow and know it is there, but I am not focusing on the arrow. I understand a larger gap will be up close, point on at about 33-35 yards for my setup, and then hold over on longer target shots. I don't shoot longer than that, prob no more than about 25 yards in reality, at live targets. If this pic will come over, I found it on the interwebs https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.qkKFkyqKyaHOIiRdRf-DlAHaFj&pid=Api&rs=1

looks like I can only paste the link.

"White Out works if you want to do that."

Same thing I do. Works great.

If the “I can’t see the arrow so I can’t see the deer” statement was true, fiber optic sight would have no use. Yep white out works well.

I don't use the point, rather the arc of the shaft where it meets the insert. That's all I can see looking down the shaft. But the biggest problem is you can still make out the arrow but all details of a deer get blacked out as it gets dark and the deer have no aiming points on them anymore, they're just black blobs.

Yea you can't beat a gapper most times. I agree. Being a bow hunter I just shoot short shots instinctively

hedge, I like the way you are talking about gripping with a fixed crawl up close. The ones under the tree are kinda tricky for me... Ill have to try that on the target/back yard.

hedge, I like the way you are talking about gripping with a fixed crawl up close. The ones under the tree are kinda tricky for me... Ill have to try that on the target/back yard.

https://tradbow.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/MasterOfTheArts.pdf

What Bowmania said

"I asked Byron if he was instinctive or shot gap. He said he was instinctive. I asked how he shot those 100 yard shots. He said those he gapped. I asked what the difference was and he said, "on the close shots, I know the gap so well I'm instinctive."

Me too

On my henry 45-70 I painted the brass glow in the dark pink and painted the diamond and added two glow in the dark white marks. I little close up spotting with a flash light makes the sights easier to see after sunset, Maybe that would work on the back edge of a broadhead. I quite often take out an arrow with the white glow on paint at sunset. it makes the arrow easier to find after the shot and waiting time after the hit. It is pretty dark by the time I start after any deer shot after sundown and that little bit of glow from the painted nock shows up in the dark.

Ron beat me to it. I agree.

You might be interested in my old post see my point. Works for me

I use to worry about gapping because I'm blind in one eye and can't judge yardages very well I've tried it at 3 D shoots. But I got to thinking at MY effective hunting which is basically under 15 yards it's the same gap so with only one gap it works for me. I still look at the Target but get lined up using the gap to check myself then pick a spot on the target

For low light, and after legal hunting hours(target practice) a lighted pin works well, even on stickbows.

Exactly. If you can't see the arrow, you've stayed too long. I actually leave before last light so I'm not tempted to take a marginal shot.

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