New to trad. Been hunting elk with compound many years. Have been shooting an old Ben Pearson recurve. Drawing 47# at 29".. What do you think of that for elk? And suggested broad head and weight? Currently shooting Beman Center Shot carbon, 500 spine,31 inch, 8.3 GPI. Suggsetions? May take it along this Fall, maybe not. Thanks.

Build a arrow with good foc, weighing around 450 grains, with a good cut on contact head. I switched last year to 125 grain Van Dieman's, with awesome results. I'm now running 75 grain Ethics half outs on my Victory Carbon Trads at 470 grains from a 55 pound stickbow. Killed several bulls with an arrow like yours, Beman MX classics, 40 grain hit inserts and 100 grain muzzy phantom broadheads. Love the Phantoms.

The one you can get the sharpest and that flies the best from your bow....period.

Any broadhead still made has shown it's effectiveness, or it wouldn't still be made. There is no magic in a broadhead, it can only make an animal bleed. Where you put the arrow is a hundred times more important. That bow will work on elk with whatever you choose from broadheads costing $40.00 a piece to the old reliable Ace that costs about $35.00 for half a dozen. I like the Ace when I can't find my old reliable Bear Razorheads.

When a guys says "I may take it along", it means he has no confidence, either in it or in his shooting that bow, and likely won't take it along. If you're serious, then learn to shoot it and pick a decent cut on contact head...get within your accuracy range and hunt with it. If not, let it at home until you're really ready to try it. The elk is too important to be messin around and being mediocre.

Woodsmans fly well and leave a nice blood trail most times for me.

Woodsman and Eskimos are my two main heads I use, sharpen then up and go hunt.

Woodsman and Eskimos are my two main heads I use, sharpen then up and go hunt.

Being able to sharpen and resharpen your BH really is a big deal. Particularly if your in the field for extended multi-day hunts. You want to be able to sharpen those BH's with tools that you can carry with you. Ace/Eskimo BH's are the easiest to sharpen in my opinion. Small file and a ceramic rod is all you need. Woodsman/VPA are 3 blade heads. Excellent BH's and reasonably easy to sharpen. Here is an excellent video by Rick Barbee on sharpening the VPA. The diamond steel he shows works great. Easy to carry along with a ceramic rod. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU_n71Fx7MY

As for the weight, you'll need to match the weight of your points you are using. Be sure you have the right point weight and your arrows are tuned before you commit to a BH. I'm thinking that if you're going to stick with a 500 spine you'll be around 145gn. You can shorten your shaft some which will dynamically stiffen your arrow.

Some rare times George and I disagree and I do disagree with his first sentence. One of the worst broadhead ever made is a very popular broadhead. THey don't work consistantly on quartering away shots. Bridger, my lab and I have been on 22 blood trails from them and found 5 deer. I'm not starting anything by naming it, but it ain't COC.

Here's what I'd look for in a BH. COC goes without saying. The longer the better. From your world you're probably familiar with a Slick Trick - it has a blade length to width ratio of close to 1 to 1. That is close to chopping instead of cutting.

The best ratio is 3 to 1. So good that they call that ratio a mechanical advantage. There's only one broadhead that I know of with that ratio. So you need something 2+ inches long. ACE is very good, but nobody mentioned model. I never shot them, but I think one of their models is 1.5 wide. Too wide in my opinion for the best penetration. I like 1 1/8, 1 1/4 max. for width.

I would have always suggested a two blade until recently, but now I'm not so sure. Rick Barbee has a video of a VPA out penetrating a STOS (I think it was a STOS - the broadhead I use for moose and elk size animals).

Couple of years ago I shot a bull with 50 pounds at 29 and used a 625 grain arrow with a 160 STOS that I built up to weigh 360 grains. I got complete penetration on a 29 yard shot.

Make sure that what ever you shoot the broadhead arrow impacts in the same spot as your field point arrows - BH's and field points weighing the same.

Bowmania

Self sharpen Ace is hard to beat.Pre sharpened Magnus Stingers.

I would go with a 3:1 ratio broadhead. Build an arrow to get the most penetration.

Sharp very SHARP!!!

A solid steel 2 or 3 blade cut-on-contact head with enough weight that you can tune well and can get very sharp, really doesn't matter the brand. All you gotta do is put it through the heart/lungs area and out the other side and you have your animal. I like the Ace Standard 2 blade, Snuffer or VPA 3 blade.

"Some rare times George and I disagree and I do disagree with his first sentence. One of the worst broadhead ever made is a very popular broadhead." (Bowmania).

OK so tell us which is the worst ever made so we can avoid that head at all cost.

I am going to add a point to this. You can have the best sharpest broadhead out there, BUT if your arrow is not tuned with the point weight (or close to it) you are planning on hunting with, that best sharpest broadhead won't do its job well, due to decreased penetration. You want the arrow spinning on it axis in flight. If you have Zwickeys, Ace, STOS, Old Bear Greenies, Grizzlies, Woodsman's, and others will work well as long as you get them "Sharp". If you plan on using any of these on anything other than wood shafts and you add your own inserts to use as screw in points you have to take into consideration the inserts weight. Short aluminum adapter will make a 125gr broadhead a 150gr broadhead, a 125gr broadhead and a long aluminum adapter will make it a 170gr broadhead. The same if you are adding 50-100gr steel adapters. DANNY

I don't take quartering shots on deer. I never have done that in all my years of hunting with the bow. Maybe I'm just fortunate but I'll take broadside shot where you get full penetration. I don't care how much poundage you shoot either. I have let them walk while on a quartering angle with the off-shoulder as a target. No thanks, I don't like long blood trails. If you ask for trouble, you likely will get it. And yes, I know...there are a bunch here who just love quartering shots. I'm just not one of them.

I’m quite fond of Simmons broadheads. They have .050” thick blades and are solid, one-piece heads. They fly great too. I know of several others who have used them with great success. For Elk, the thick blades should hold up really well. The concave blade design will really open game up too. The particular Simmons head that I’m using is called the Tree Shark. It has a 2” cutting diameter and weighs 190 grains, but there are other models with a smaller cutting width. My Easton 2018’s tipped with these weigh in at 660 grains total weight.

Your shafts are not too far from the 'classic' 9 grains per pound. I'd be looking for something in the 145-150 grain range for broadhead weight unless you want to tune for heavy-and-lots-of-FOC.

You don't say what point weight you're currently tuned for. I'd suggest something that weighs about what your field points weigh.

Going 'heavy' means readjusting to a different trajectory from what you may be used to. Not everyone has the skill (or the bow!) to lob a heavy arrow at longer distances.

My bow is tuned right now for 145 grain heads and I'll be carrying 145-150 grain broadheads come hunting season.

Plenty of good choices in that weight range.

"The best ratio is 3 to 1"

I don't disagree, but most broadheads, including those often thought of as 3-1, or sold as 3-1, are not that angle, usually more like 2.5-1.

There are the stubbies like Bear look ratios, and then there are ones that are an extra degree of fineness. But almost none of them measure out to 3-1. I am not splitting hairs over heads that are 2.9-1. They miss by a lot more than that.

It isn't a big deal. Heads like the Grizzlies, that are streamlined compared to the Razorhead, and two edge, with no bleeders, they kill like heck, whatever the angle is.

47# is at the very light end. Not even legal in some places. Last I heard. So you can use it where it is legal, but no point in pretending it's a hammer. If you checked back here to the beginning there was lots of chest pounding about how our rigs were better than compounds in killing power (based on superior arrow weight, build, and COC heads). The average compound from that period is probably about 3-4 times the killing power of a 47# Pearson, but that is what makes it interesting.

I don't know why, but I really like old pearsons, and find them very shootable.

I already answered this before, I have a similar set up for elk and my choice is a Magnums Stinger 4 blade 125 gr. but I am using 100 gr. brass inserts on 500 spine shafts.

I don't think you'll see any difference in penetration with a two blade but I'd rather have the Stinger 4 blade for a marginal hit. The fact the rear edges are sharpened is also a bonus as is the fact this broadhead stays sharp longer than other bhs in my experience.

In you don't use brass inserts, I'd go to a heavier two blade or three blade. ABowyer has some pretty heavy two blades and they're single bevels.

Thanks for good input. Using 125 gr field tips now. About 14% FOC currently. Had in mind simply using a 125 gr broadhead. No other weight adjustments. I do feel 47# may be light for elk and that's why I wanted to hear from folks. I figured that arrow setup would fine though. Heavier draw weight bow I would likely need to go to 400 spine?

125gn Magnus Stinger. Will work with your setup, and all you will need. Fly with fieldtips and sharpen easily with a Rada sharpener.

Zwickey NO Mercy 2 or 4 blade!! solid head easily sharpened!!

Magnus stinger , zwickey eskimo. 4 blade or similar. Make sure it’s sharp but also make sure you shoot the arrows your gonna hunt with. Spin test and make sure they fly true. Resharpen the head and put it where it needs to go. Don’t shoot outside your comfort range. Good luck !!

Wow, I disagree with George twice in one thread. I'm writing it down on the calander, LOL. I'll take 1/4ing away over broadside for a couple of reasons. The main reason is that peripheral vision isn't as much as a problem. THe second reason is that if you compare the amount of vitals you go through it will always be more with the 1/4ing away. If you take the most extreme 1/4 - last rib to infront of the shoulder blade it would probably be more than twice as much.

Just measured my lab, It's about 7 BS to 15 1/4ing.

In fact I'll take the quartering shot that stops at the off side shoulder blade, because the animal won't go as far as a broadside with two holes. Plus Sharps is going to be on the blood trail for practice on the hard trails.

David Mitchell, as I said they're not COC, so who cares and you probably know what they are.

Bowmania

Methinks there will be a runaway dog thread tomorrow when Bowmania's lab realizes it's been taped and measured...

I'm stuck on super sharp Grizzly 190s

So, I'm kind of hearing with my current 31" carbon arrow,500 spine, 8.3 gr per inch, and 125 gr tip gives me a 398 gr arrow set up, 14% FOC, 47# draw weight. But if I need to get to about 10 gr per # of draw weight,(47#) so 470 gr arrow, I need a heavier broadhead or insert?? What does that do to FOC/ Am I not understanding this?? Some said I'm fine with what I have and others say go heavier. Go back to my compound?? :)

Well, if you want to be an archer and a BOWhunter you can't go back to the compound!!!

Here something about tuning arrows. If you don't have a ton of experience you can't start tuning with a arrow weight or tip weight in mind. It will influence the out come.

I can tell you right now that if you're drawing 29 inches, that 125 grain tip is not enough weight to get that arrow into paradox. I think you'd be safe (but you shouldn't) cutting that arrow to 30 inches and end up shoot a tip weight between 200 and 250, maybe 300. But IF YOU HAVE THAT 125 GR TIP IMPACTING A FLETCHED AND BARE SHAFT, I'd cut a half inch off and see what tip weight I need then. If it's 200 gr your arrow weight is 475 and 10 grains per pound.

I wouldn't advise shooting what I shoot, because I take equipment to the edge. I have a longbow 50 at 29, pretty close to what you shoot. I have a whitetail setup that shoots a 30 inch .620 with 285 grains up front. For bigger game I have a 30 inch .390 with 360 grains up front. Both set ups shoot perfect broadhead holes through paper at 12 feet and 12 yards.

YOu mention needing a heavier broadhead. Do you realize that if you have a 125 grain screw in broadhead that's all you have? But if you have a 125 grain glue on broadhead, you can make it weight anything from about 150 to 500 grains. Maybe only 450 with a quick calculation.

Here's something I go by. You can get a glue on field point at 160 grains. In my book there's a lot of good glue on broadheads that weigh 160. So I use for a lot of my set ups a 160 FP and BH with a 125 grain adaptor, give me a 285 grain tip with good FOC.

Aluminum adaptors come in 25ish, 30-40 grains, and steel adaptors come in 75, 100, and 125 grains. If you really want to pack on weight you can add a Woody Weight and they come up to 200 grains.

The first thing is tuning to a certain weight. Learn this document and you'll answer questions not ask. www.fenderarchery.com/blogs/archery-info/basic-tuning Broadhead tuning is toward the end.

Bowmania

WhoCares, Did you know you can't believe anything on the internet? Here you'll have people tell you they shoot crooked shafts better than straight.

To get around that get a coach. I'm know there's a bunch in MN and If you're near Winona, I hunt across the river and I'll help you out. PM me.

Bowmania

I prefer blades I can sharpen, simply because I can touch them up. Broadheads will dull a bit just being in a quiver that's being carried around on the hunt day after day. If you change your blades often replacement blades are fine. Common sense will tell you which broadheads will be stronger.

As far as advice....you'll have to just sift through it, some is based on experience, some is just copied, some is based on little experience.

One thing is for certain If you put enough time in you WILL figure it out on your own.

And i'll get flamed for this, (sorry bowmania) you do NOT need a coach to learn how to shoot a bow. I never had one, and I notice I shoot just as good as the "experts" that being said it might save you some time yes.

Shade mt, that's true. But if you want to cut the learning curve more than in half, you need one.

If you take just a simple thing like stance. There's probably 50 ways to stand. Feet width, angle, position to target away, and body cant or no. AND you think it's better to spend time figuring it out for yourself than have a coach say this is the correct way?

Now, lets add in grip, hook, anchor, bact tension ets. We're at 300 with just those and theres twice as many. Now, add combinations of each, because starting you don't know if a shot worked because of this or that. And you think it's petter to spend time figuring it out for yourself that have a coach say this is the correct way?

I've shot your way for 54 years and I was good. I did things wrong for 54 years. I can't tell you how much the first class helped me. Not to mention the physical problems I have now, because I had a stupid stance and draw. These will end my archery career early. Now, add in TP. I'd love to take that out of my learning curve.

So you're saying you're as good as Howard and Byron??? You could be an exception. Don't lead newbs down the wrong road - time is money.

Bowmania

Quartering away is a great shot. Bury it into the opposite shoulder and the arrow just barrels around tearing way more vitals up versus a broadside full pass through. The farthest a deer has gone with this shot for me is 40 yards. Ill still shoot broadside but I get excited when quartering away presents itself.

I would suggest you spend some time with the Dynamic Spine Calculator on the 3River site. You can manipulate arrow specs which will help you understand the relationship between variables such as spine, point weight, and shaft length. You'll also get results that include arrow weight, FOC, and estimated speed. I'll attach a screenshot of your data adjusted to using a 175gr point. You can fine tune specs such as string type, fletching, and center cut.

Hard to beat a stinger or grizzly for that set up

Bowmania...I have to admit I was being a bit sarcastic, my apology. I put quotation marks on the term "expert" for a reason, Internet is full of them... As good as Byron or Howard ? lol of course not.

Good as some of the coaches? mmmmmmm more than likely..

Been using the Muzzy phantoms.Great heads

OKIAK has it wright. perfectly spined shaft broadhead combination. Thought I would never go carbon. found this calculator and came up with a 29inch axsis tratitional 340 with 75 grain insert 200 grain BH. Had a perfect match for my set up coming in at 604 grains out of my 58lb Blacktail recurve. Purchased 6 Axsis trad just to test them. Very quick and fast. purchased more Axsis from D&M arrows after testing.Those D&Ms will just make me look good in camp.Oh , they were cheaper all dolled up then the 6 plain janes I purchased. Now for the Broad heads. I am hitting a coffee cup out to 40 yards with hammer head blunts. I would not take that far a shoot on game regardless. Now the real test, took a VPA 200 grain 3 blade and a 200 right bevel cutthroat. Both flew like darts. I have been doing this thing for many years since I was kid. So I put a piece of 3/4 inch plywood. Both heads penetrated about the same from 20 yards same at 30 yards. I noticed a louder wack with the CC head. Had a heck of a time getting my BHs out. Had to cut a circle around them. Then take the blow torch and burn the wood. Hs are as good as new. Well my practice heads now. A good COC steel head fit with good FOC/spine and good tuning will all work very well . I am preparing for my annual elk hunt so I do get anal about my set up since I have gotten older and down in weight. My current Black tail new design/forward handel 1 inch less on the riser far outperforms my other Blacktails. the FF string is a 15 strand model

I like the walmart heads... allen brand. I have a setup with 2419 aluminums that fly really well with a 100 grain head... this opens up for the three blade, fixed head. I buy a new pack often, since they are 4-6 dollars for three. I have taken several deer with them, and they cut a nice hole for blood tracking. this way keeps my shots cheap too.

2 blade Magnus Stingers or Stinger Buzzcuts with a total point weight of about 175 to 200 (made up of any combination of insert, broadhead and screw in weights) with the specific shaft the OP mentioned should be near perfect and assuming feathers and wrap, should weigh right at 450 or 475 grains depending one what you settle on for total point weight. If the 500 spine arrow doesn't start showing weak with a total of 200 up front that's probably what I'd go with but either would work.

Three blades probably = more blood... but you gotta know how to sharpen them. If, after honest appraisal, you feel like you don't - go with a razor sharp 2 blade. I'll be heading to the woods with VPA's. Tough has hell... can get them in a variety of weights... which - with a trad bow is important. You just never know what weight head will fly best out of your bow.

Time spent getting that arrow to fly perfect is time well spent.

Good luck -

I shoot Bear greenie 2 blades for Canadian bear, Montana & Wyoming antelope, Pennsylvania whitetails and they perform flawlessly and are a dream to sharpen.I would use them as well if I had any interest in elk . I never even look at any other broadhead. If it ain't broke.........ps...Leave the gadget bow at home !!! Just my 2 cents,

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