Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


**Tuning**

Messages posted to thread:
Bowmania 04-Jun-19
Babysaph 04-Jun-19
Smokedinpa 04-Jun-19
2 bears 04-Jun-19
fdp 04-Jun-19
Buglmin 04-Jun-19
babysaph 04-Jun-19
2 bears 05-Jun-19
RymanCat 05-Jun-19
2 bears 05-Jun-19
B arthur 05-Jun-19
Rick Barbee 05-Jun-19
B arthur 05-Jun-19
Bowmania 06-Jun-19
jk 06-Jun-19
jk 06-Jun-19
arrowchucker 06-Jun-19
From: Bowmania Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 04-Jun-19




If you don't like this regimented/form orientated shooting, you don't need to comment. DON'T DO IT BECAUSE I DO IT, DO IT BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE TO YOU. All these form threads are no substitute for a coach. No matter how good any written word is, it can't point and say, “move this here”.

There's a few ways to tune an arrow to a bow and vice versa. They all work and they all have some problems. Some have more than others. We can use that to determine the BEST way to tune.

For this discussion we'll not include wood. Wood on it's own has a great formula and if we're looking at bow from 30 to 60 pound you actually have 30 spines to choose from technically. They really come in 5 pound increments.

Aluminums also come in a pretty wide range of spine. A quick count in a catalog gave me over 20. So if your knowledgeable or have access to someone who is, you can have a pretty good educated guess at what will work.

Carbon is a different animal. In general it comes in .100 increments - .600, .500. .400 with an etc on either side. Those figures stand for deflection. Deflection is determined by supporting an arrow in two spots at 28 inches apart and hanging a 1.94 weight in the center. If an arrow flexes a half an inch it has a deflection of .500.

Go to YouTube and look up archer's paradox. A well tuned arrow matches the paradox of the arrow with flex or deflection of the arrow. The first flex of the arrow as it moves forward, for a right handed shooter is to the right of the arrow between the string and the bow. The second flex will allow the arrow to pass the strike plate and the rug.

We could set up this match by shooting an arrow through paper. The hole left in the paper is a snap shot of what the arrow is doing at that particular distance. And that's the problem – what's it doing at other distances. Think of an arrow fishtailing. By mistake because of frustration, I once shot an arrow further than the recommended 12 to 15 feet and got a perfect hole. Where as at 12 feet I was getting a 3 inch rip.

We could also match paradox and deflection by nock kick. Commonly done with a bare shaft and called bare shaft tuning which causes confusion. The way you should tune is called bare shaft planing (p-l-a-a-a-ning as in plane). I'm not saying you should not use nock kick, but it's very easy to get a false reading an that can drive you nuts. The short formula for a right handed shooter is nock left weak, nock right stiff. The real problem with this method, besides more false reading than other methods, is you have about ¼ of a second to determine the nock kick or you can look at the angle of the arrow sticking in the target. This is impacted by the material of the target and other holes in that material. (a ¼ of a second came from a bow shooting 200 fps at 50 feet. In reality, we're shooting slower and at 20 yards 60 feet, but who's counting? If you are feel free to figure the math.)

There's a number of reasons that impacts or bare shaft planing is the best way to tune. The two main reasons are less or the least amount of false readings and the only way you can tell if your nocking point is too low or it hit the shelf and kicked up making it look too high.

Bare shaft planing is the process of getting a bare shaft and a fletched shaft to impact in the same place. You'll hear people say, “I always shoot fletched arrow, I don't need to shoot bare shafts”. Well, yes you do. A fletched shaft will always impact where or near where it is aimed or pointed. A bare shaft will only impact were it was pointed if it is tuned. If you think of a bell curve with a perfectly tuned arrow at the top and slightly weak being left and slightly stiff being right, a poor shot with a perfect arrow may go where the slightly weak or stiff arrow always goes. That same poor shot with a slightly stiff or slightly weak arrow will be further off center. This gets more important with a broadhead tipped arrow, which acts like a bare shaft and will only impact were it is pointed when tuned.

( This is a tangent directed to the people who don't shoot bare shafts. Most of you. Fletching corrects your mistakes. When you practice why would you practice with something that covers up your mistakes? Pretty hard way to learn if you don't know if you've made a mistake. More on that later)

The best document I've ever seen on tuning, more important to me, THE BEST DOCUMENT I'VE EVER SEEN ON BROADHEAD TUNING is www.fenderarchery.com/blogs/archery-info/basic-tuning. I'd advise printing it out. It's the third printing. The original by OL Adcock is long gone. Back when it was available I was telling people to print it out, because I didn't know how long it would last.

It really is a bible of tuning. In general it says if your right handed and ….................. nope I'm doing a disservice to anyone who hasn't read and understand the document by giving a short description. Know that document and you can answer tuning question instead of asking them.

Next week in Part 2, I'll explain more and add a few things left out of the bible. LOL. I think I'll have to reread it for that!!!

Bowmania

To reference past subjects search by clicking on key word;

**Stance** **Grip** **Hook** **Body Posture** **Head Position** **KSL Sequence** **Set Position** **Set Up Position** **Anchor** **Transfer to Hold** **Release** **Release 2 (Back Tension) **Release and Aiming** **Rhythm Breathing** **Visualization** **Focus/Concentration-Mind/Mental C** **Focus and Concentration Pt 2**

From: Babysaph
Date: 04-Jun-19




So the goal is really to get the bareshafts hitting in the bullseye?

From: Smokedinpa
Date: 04-Jun-19




Both bare and fletched together in the bullseye.

I try to always carry and shoot a bare shaft even after tuned. Kind of amazing how well they fly and I know if something wrong with my release or bow.

From: 2 bears
Date: 04-Jun-19




And There it is all on one page. If your matching bare shafts and fletched shafts hit in the same group out to 20 yards and past. You are tuned and if your broad heads are on straight they will also hit it the same group.Now if that group of all three, bare,fetched,& fletched broadheads hit somewhere other than the bulls-eye,you know that it is you.Your rig is gold and you will be able to fix your problem. That way you are not fighting several problems at once and can't figure out how to fix it. Your feathers will not be acting like parachutes to drag the side ways flying arrow back in line. It is much easier to move a tight group to the spot you are aiming rather that trying to move random flying arrows to the bull. Good luck, >>>>-----> Ken

From: fdp
Date: 04-Jun-19




Good post Todd. One thing I presonally remind all folks of these days is that there is a difference in tuning arrows to a bow, and tuning arrows to each other. You can get about any spine of arrow to group fletched and unfletched together at considerable distance. However, getting them to group where you AIM/POINT them...not so much. And to do that they (archers) have to know where they are aiming them. Whatever they choose to call the method they use to do that.

I trust you are going to continue this topic as you and I both know you have barely scratched the surface.

From: Buglmin
Date: 04-Jun-19




Don't forget nock tuning. Turning the nock a hair at a time will also show spine inconsistencies in the arrows shaft. You might have perfect arrow flight on one spot, but turning will nock will give you a different reading. That's why some companies like Victory Archery will mark the stiff side on the shafts.

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 04-Jun-19




Why can't I just get my bareshafts hitting in the bullseye and then add feathers?

From: 2 bears
Date: 05-Jun-19




If the bare is flying bad but hitting in the bulls-eye,when you add feathers they won't be. Get the two flying together. >>>>-----> Ken

From: RymanCat
Date: 05-Jun-19




Is this the declaration of Leather wall. What youngster can fathom all these words?

Keep it simple stupid is the play. Quick and to the point not some deceleration.

There was a bowyer who said keep it simple stupid. The average person can not retain all this!

Bare shaft is fake news. Your not shooting bare shafts its a waste of time. Tune with feathers on!

From: 2 bears
Date: 05-Jun-19




Your lack of understanding is not every one else's problem. Go fish. >>>>-----> Ken

From: B arthur
Date: 05-Jun-19




Hey Cat. Im no genious but it seems like I can understand everything that is written. I feel like you have insulted alot of people with you statement. Im also dont remember anywhere in the Bible that says insults and badgering are good. But then again you know the Bible better than most. God Bless....Brad

From: Rick Barbee
Date: 05-Jun-19




I see someone spilled some fruit loops in this topic.

I guess, if you're stupid you probably should keep it simple.

Some folks may not get this kind of stuff right off, but "most" eventually do get a handle on it, and they are darn glad for it once they do.

Keep up the good work Todd. Don't let the circling buzzards run you off.

Rick

From: B arthur
Date: 05-Jun-19




I get it Todd and its very useful to a dummy like me. Im using it now By the way. Thanks one again.

From: Bowmania Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 06-Jun-19




Thanks for the support guys. I'd think if you'd read the first sentence of my threads, you'd understand that don't need to make that type of comment. Go start your own thread on how you tune.

Babystaph, you make an interesting comment. Our brains are wonderful machines, but they can screw things up. Here's something that may answer your question.

Take a stiff bare shaft and shoot it at the target WITH THE THOUGHT IN MIND that you want to hit the spot in the center of the target. You hit left, but you don't really know why because your tuning. The next shot or the third or ... and you hit the spot. After that you hit the spot again. Oh wow, I've got a tuned arrow. No you don't. Your subsconsious took over and and said, 'hey stupid if you aim where that first, second and third shot hit you'll end up left. Aim here!!!'.

I'm sure you've read in other tuning threads to put a verticle piece of tape on the target and aim or put the point of the arrow below the tape. Next thread I'll explain how to do this with a golf ball and kill two birds with one arrow so to speak.

In any experiment you need a constant and in our case it's the fletched arrow.

Bowmania

From: jk
Date: 06-Jun-19




Be aware that everybody's vision changes during the day (subtle exhaustion)...and with age over time...and if we wear glasses that may or may not be correctly prescribed, and probably isn't for current eye condition (won't be by discount shops).

From: jk
Date: 06-Jun-19




It's amazing how, at 20 yds, my bare Axis shafts do hit tight in the group with my fletched Axis arrows.

From: arrowchucker
Date: 06-Jun-19




Today I was shooting at 50 yrds and my bare shaft shot more tens than the rest. If abare shaft will go in the fletched should take care of themselves. Arrowchucker





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