Quick question to those of you with experience either first hand or setting up a significant other or kid. My son is old enough now to get his first deer tag this year. He's been working his way up in poundage, from 25# limbs to shooting 35# now and his 40# set a handful of times. Obviously shots will be kept close, sub 15 yds, but I'm just curious as to what arrow recipes others have used with success. He draws about 23" now but is growing like a weed. He shoots a JC Optimus riser, set to true center shot. Broadhead will be some sort of single bevel, I haven't decided which yet. Thanks for chiming in.

A forty pound with a matched arrow, say 9 gpp, will shoot as fast as a 50# with a 9 gpp if both are of like design, so it is more about arrow weight and flight not bow weight. Close should be what we all look for in hunting, but a lighter weight will do just as well out further as well. It's accuracy, arrow flight, and quality/sharpness of the broadhead used. Buck fever is a variable that's hard to train for though that is part of the mix in novice hunters. Just follow your state guidelines for minimum bow weight.

If he can’t handle the poundage you can always start him out with a firearm. It could be a good way to break the ice and get him out in the woods.

So he is shooting around 32# @ @ 23"?. Just gonna say that just because it is his first year available for a deer tag doesn't mean that he has to use a bow for that first year. Good luck.

^^^ not necessarily.

My daughters now's draw length is set up for smaller, shorter drawing people. Hers is 30# at 24". Really cant draw it more than 26".

How about a rifle? Or a wheelie bow until they get bigger ? Or maybe shoot small game with their setup? No snark intended. Spot on about 15 yards. There are a lot options out there.

Could wait another year, no need rushing. Is that poundage what is written on the bow or the poundage at what he is drawing it to. Don't go hunting an animal if he is short drawing and only is using 20 lbs of the bow.

Just info, to hopefully help eliminate a wounded animal and a disappointed hunter.

Those that think such low poundage bows are ineffective should go to Youtube and search low poundage bow kills. One video features a very young girl arrowing a texas buck with a sub 30# compound. THE BUCK DROPS AT THE SHOT! Another features a young man killing two does with one shot with his very low poundage compound bow. Know I know some will say, ya "compound bows", such low poundage compounds are not fast bows. I personally know a man that killed a nice doe with a 25# at his draw selfbow.

It wont be his rodeo, he shot a spike buck last year in Wisconsin with his .270 as well as a turkey last spring. Nerves aren't at the top of my worry list as I've seen him perform under pressure of a different sort. He's been the state champ in his divisions 4 years running for indoor as well as 3 years in 3d. He's been shooting a stickbow longer than most new converts as well, he started when he was still in diapers. Mr. Arrowchucker can vouch for him in the accuracy/form department. I only want to put together the best arrow system I can for him. My original thoughts are somewhere around a 400-450 gr arrow, 150+ gr in front and a broadhead that'll make ya bleed looking at it. Sound close?

Sounds like you have your mind made up. Good luck. I hope everything goes well with the setup and hunt.

"Beginning this fall, the minimum draw weight for hunting bows will be 30 pounds, a reduction from 40 pounds required in previous years by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR). The move is aimed at making bowhunting more accessible to younger hunters and others who might have difficulty drawing a 40-pound bow." If your son can shoot a 35# draw at his draw length, I wouldn't worry about taking him deer hunting. Any cut on contact head thats sharp will do, and I wouldn't sweat about efoc at all. Anything from 125 gr. up will work. It's a deer. I would set up some target arrows exactly like his hunting arrows as soon as possible and let him hone his already good skills with what he will be shooting. Don't let the people who have forgotten how an arrow kills interfere with your son's hunt.

Listen to Mr Hatfield. Taking only high percentage shots, and placing that arrow is all that is requied to be successful.

Old buck, that is what I said and look what happened. Out came the if you think low poundage won't kill godzilla, just look!

Larry, his bow is marked at 35lbs most likely at 28" and he is drawing 25" he might be under the low limit. I didn't say it wouldn't kill a deer, I said it may be too low for the law if he was checked.

That is what this forum is for to give different views to help people to do their best.

To answer your actual question, this would be a classic opportunity to implement a Ashby arrow strategy. You are basically facing the same kind of challenge with your Son's gear as a hefty hunter faces in Africa: Making the best use of your limited poundage. Really the only telling criticism of Ashby's work has been whether we needed to take it that far with NA game. Well, it can't hurt in your case.

https://www.grizzlystik.com/PR/Ashby_Ultimate_Hunting_Arrows.pdf

Basically if you use a carbon arrow; get it flying with 3 inch 3 fletch feathers, and 125 hill/Grizz, or similar, so called 3-1 head, you will be there for light gear. It isn't complicated.

Another strategy is to use an over-length arrow, if you need extra weight, tough today most would probably up arrow head weight. But a long arrow can make for an easier point on, and a little more weight, and it will get you more pounds on any testing of the set-up.

I agree with Larry, but keep in mind also, that for the same poundage, there are any number of compounds that deliver 4 times the energy of a stick bow,and that is what is driving any drop in draw weight by the departments.

I hadn't read the recent update.

https://www.grizzlystik.com/PR/Ashby_Ultimate_Hunting_Arrows.pdf

Interesting that the number one factor is projectile integrity. That has always been my preference. I personally prefer the glue on system to a formed shaft (pulltruded carbon, turned wood; swagged metal). Build it like a tank. Whatever your preferences, working with light spine arrows, make sure you like the structure and toughness of the parts.

What is unclear is whether it's rated limb weight or actual draw weight at his 23 inches.

Best bet would be to follow larryhatfield's advise and set up some target arrows exactly like his hunting arrows.

A friend of mine had his son hunting at young age with a light bow. I necked some three to one broadheads down to four to one. The boy was told to not shoot at the big deer just the small ones and was taken out prior to identify small from big. He shot a button buck after two larger deer passed by. The arrow got full penetration and the button buck went down in 50 yards.

Yes, the 40# limbs drawn to 23" may yield 30# which may work. But that 450 grain arrow might be a bit heavy out of the bow. Only you can watch him shoot and determine if the bow has enough zip on it to hunt with.

When my son was 12 I made him wait a couple of years to draw a heavier bow, one that would guarantee a killing shot. That proved successful with him killing a small buck his first year.

You might look at the Zwicky single bevel no mercy. 130 grains in glue on style. A little heavier in screw in.

RonC, this is what I wrote----"If your son can shoot a 35# draw at his draw length, I wouldn't worry about taking him deer hunting."

Read first and write later.

RonC, this is what I wrote----"If your son can shoot a 35# draw at his draw length, I wouldn't worry about taking him deer hunting."

Read first and write later.

some states wisely have no draw limits and avoid all the bickering :)

I wouldn't just limit it to just single bevel heads, any SHARP 2 blade head will work for great penetration. You just want its weight to match up to what field point weight he is using on his shaft to get perfect arrow flight. If an adapter is add to the 2 blade broadhead, to make it a screw in broadhead, that adapter's weight needs to be included for its over all weight. I can't tell you how many people I have met that don't consider that. People take a 125gr glue on and are using it on an aluminum or carbon shaft, but they put an adapter into it so it will work, but still think it is only a 125gr broadhead . Short aluminum adapter it is now a 150gr broadhead, long aluminum adapter it is now a 170gr broadhead. DANNY

Unfortunately, that isn't all you wrote, Larry. You had to add a smarta$$ comment at the end intended to degrade anyone who doesn't agree with you.

And maybe since that poundage/draw wasn't the situation based on the OP info, maybe you should read before you write.

pdk, Mind your manners. - lbg

Longbowguy, Just because a guy has been around the block and may be considered a legend doesn't mean he can't be called out. If you think my comments are incorrect or invalid, say it. And if you are so concerned about manners, direct some of that sense of propriety towards Mr. Hatfield.

legend ?

I’ve seen a lot of deer taken with mid 30’s bows at 27” with a “D” style longbow and very untuned arrows cedar arrows. He still always had exit wounds. I wouldn’t hesitate if he can shoot well and you set up some decently heavy, well tuned arrows. You might consider low treestands or a ground blind to reduce depth of penetration needed to get to the other side of a deers chest.

pdk25 thank you, it is difficult to get the meaning of what is typed sometimes

My hunting bows are 40 to 45 pounds but I only draw 26 to 26 1/2 inches. They range from high-quality vintage bows to high tech Uukha Hoyt and border rigs. I shoot Beman center shot 600s Who is between 125 to 145 grain broadheads. I keep some of those 600s 29” And some of them closer to 27, depending on the bow they’re coming out of.

Hope that’s helpful!

J.

I'm still looking for the

"smarta$$ comment at the end intended to degrade anyone who doesn't agree with you."

Pdk X2.

PDK x3

pdk25,

I think you should reread WHAT Larry said, reconsider what Larry is saying, and NOT read into it. In Minnesota the legal poundage to hunt deer with a bow is now 30#, per Larry's first post. If the OP son is drawing 35#s, that is 5#s Over the minimum draw legal weight in Minnesota, THAT is why Larry is saying "I wouldn't worry about it taking him deer hunting." 35#s is more than enough to kill a deer for that state's legal bow weight. It was not a Smart... comment. Larry's last comment in his first post on this thread: "Don't let the people who have forgotten how an arrow kills interfere with your son's hunt." THAT is Supporting the OP and his son, telling him to take his son hunting with the bow and don't listen to all of those who say he can't kill a deer with the light draw weight he is pulling, it is legal for that State. The State SAYS it is enough to kill a deer! I think YOU and maybe some others here need to Apologize to someone profusely. DANNY

Danny, with all due respect, I disagree, and no apology will be forthcoming. The comment I referred to was the last line in his first post on this thread, and I stand by it.

You can use all caps as much as you like, but there was no call for the additional smarta$$ remark to Ron. If he going to call someone out about "Read first, Write later", then that applies to him as well. The OP never mentioned a 25" draw, period. It was a 23" draw, and likely significantly less than 35#.

Try to be objective and act as if it was someone other than Larry Hatfield who made the comments.

No pdk25, the Smarta$$ comment was made by You on May 31st. The post was made right under mine, on that same day. So that comment WAS NOT made to Ron, I wasn't posting to Ron, I was posting to you because I started it with pdk25, no where was Ron mentioned nor quoted, so don't try and deflect it. Take responsibility for what you write. I will save you the time going back to look. To quote that whole post from you on May 31st, you stated: "Unfortunately, that isn't all you wrote, Larry. You had to add a Smarta$$ comment at the end intended to degrade anyone who doesn't agree with you.". Larry's last comment was not a Smarta$$ comment, UNLESS you feel, you are the one he is pointing the finger at in his LAST comment on that post "Don't let the people who have for gotten how and arrow kills interfere with your son's hunt.". You do notice the quotation marks for his comment, that is exactly what he said. Yes, I did miss the boy has a 23" draw. To also quote you from May 31st "So he is shooting 32#@23". Just going to say that because it is his first year available for a deer tag doesn't mean that he has to use a bow for the first year. Good luck." I am assuming that you were talking about the 40# bow with that estimate, and by fall he should be able to hunt with it, since his dad says he is shooting it a handful of times now, and I am guessing he will be practicing with it through the summer. So depending on what the bow loses per inch he will be right there about the 30# mark with a 23" draw, which may increase over he summer, since it sounds like he is going through a growth spurt from the comment his dad made. Even in Your post you stated he would be drawing 32#s, so slightly over the State minimum by Your estimate. So who are you, to try and deter a child from hunting with a STATE legal bow weight (the State doesn't say it has to be at a certain draw length), even by Your estimate? Because You don't think it is enough? The State of Minnesota thinks it is. "Maybe" Larry was pointing the finger at you, I wasn't looking, from the gist of your comments.

By the way EXACTLY what "Smarta$$ remark" are you accusing me of making to Ron? Since Ron was never mentioned, or even thought of, in my posting to You. I just want to know what words and thoughts, you are putting into My mouth, that you have made up, and read into to my post that isn't even there?

Can you also tell me exactly how much energy it takes to push a cut on contact broadhead through a deer's chest cavity so the whole broadhead "just" exits the off side skin? You see once the "broadhead" exits the off side skin all the damaged it can do, has been done, anything else is over kill. NO ONE as been able to answer that question. The one thing I do know, it is less energy than what a 30# bow produces. You see there have been hunters who have just "dropped" a sharpened broadhead tip arrow, and have it go through their foot with just the force of gravity alone.

DANNY

And in keeping with that, assuming that the 35# limb poundage is marked at 35#, they likely wouldn't be legal, and the 40# limbs barely so. I have my opinion on the matter, but choose to merely wish them good luck

Marked at 28"

Larry Hatfield used to make bows so he knows what he is talking about.

Take head of the advice given by Mr. Stout; it's sound advice.

So much for debate free... Phil, please delete, I'll go with what I feel is right. This forum ain't what it used to be...

Danny, I never referred to your comments. Only Larry's comments. .

Danny, I never referred to your comments. Only Larry's comments.. the location of the post is incidental. It is based or when you had the window open when you started your comment. I guess you don't know me very well. I own everything that I say, and apologize when warranted. It is not warranted in this case. .

If you can find 700s good. Probably not. 600s full lengh with,wait for it. Not heavy points!

Not what you think when you go light. Moore of a Balance thing.

10% not 20%.

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