From: HARRY CARRY
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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I'm not knowledgeable of carbon arrows, but I have a dozen 900-spine arrows. They have the 45/50 grain GLUE-IN target points.
I originally glued them in using Loktite 420. Not problems.
A bad shot last night at the club had me lose a point in the bales.... I pulled the arrow out and it was missing the point.
I took a spare point, and again applied Loktite 420, BUT I was distracted by a family member, as I was holding the point ready to insert it into the shaft, and I only pushed it in PARTIALLY to the shaft.
The glue dried, without me attaining a full tight fit of the point.
What can I do to break the glue's hold, so I can start over?
I've never used any "heating" methods for glues on carbon arrows, as I was afraid of melting the arrow's end.
Hot water? Flame to the very tip of the steel target point? HELP!!
THANKS for suggestions!
Arrows are "RugRatz" 900 spines, using the supplied 45/50 grain steel points....
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From: kaw369
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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Try immersing just the glued area in acetone. Acetone breaks down all glue bases. I'm not sure how it will affect carbons though. Never tried it. I use woods. Use it mostly for knife making. Jon
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From: Viper
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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HC -
If you used low temp hot melt (like you were supposed too...), them just heating it would solve the problem. Still, heating just the tip over a gas range or torch might break the bond. I just don't know what will give out first, the glue or the carbon.
Viper out.
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From: RC
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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I did that once, Harry.
Could not budge it pulling on it.
So, I got me a soft poplar board, pine board would work too, and I stood back at 10 yards and shot the arrow into the board.
That broke it loose.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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Harry Carry... Mr. Randy, you are indeed a loveable lunkhead. ;) Low temp hot melt is all you need for any arrow material for any insert. Super glue does make a near permanent bond and folks should know that going in. I've yet to lose a point while using low temp hot melt, and that's with aluminum, fiberglass, wood, and even ca...ca...carbon. Not only that, even the cheap craft hot melt..low temp works great. But alas, no one will listen.
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From: The Whittler
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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May be a drill bit down the shaft.
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From: jk
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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Been there, done that... Lock family outside.
Rest tip on electric stove burner for a few minutes. Lock vice grip on hot tip. Grit your teeth. Grunt and yank. Repeat. If that doesn't work, cut shaft below insert with Dremel, cut stubble off that point using Dremel grinding thingabob grind end of shaft nice and clean start again with 5 minute JBWeld two part epoxy.
Optional: let family back in after a beer. .
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From: i
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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^^^^^^^^ What Whitt suggests. Get the longest, widest bit that will still clear the shaft's I.D. When you commence 'throwing' it, just watch out for overhead lights and other breakables, as the bit comes out at warp speed and goes hither and yon. Ask me how i know :)
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From: Bowmania
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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Whittler has the idea. Take the nock off and put the bit down the shaft and flick it. Becareful where you do it, because it could be hard to find.
I'm pretty sure I know why it happened in the first place. Use a brass rifle cleaning brush to score the inside of the shaft and also the tip part that's inside the arrow. Then clean with a solvent - tip and inside the shaft. I've never lost a tip since I started that.
Bowmania
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From: sack
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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What RC said..or just take arrow by hand and like a dart.throw it point first into a concrete floor.
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From: HARRY CARRY
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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Viper and Mr. Stout!! thank you for your comments, but I've only been using alums and hotmelt up till this time in my history, which for me meant heating both the tip of the arrow and the glue-in point, then marrying the two in a "perfectly suitable for me" arrow. (Yeah, I'm sure this is wrong, too...)
I was not sure about the temperature variances of the innermost layer of carbon, and its tolerances, versus the temperature-at-the-moment of hot melt; therefore, that's why I guess I wrongly chose loktite 420, which as you know is a cold-when-applied product....
I've received a few PMs about methods, and I'm going to try them in the order of my materials on hand, and stubbornness. If all these are inadequate, I'm going over to RC's "Church of The Bended Osage", and fire the arrow into some of his bubinga wood pile...
Thanks, everyone... I do appreciate your knowledge, EXPERTISE, and humor....
Aloha & 73, de HARRY CARRY....Randy, the Lunkhead
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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"" Viper and Mr. Stout!! thank you for your comments, but I've only been using alums and hotmelt up till this time in my history, which for me meant heating both the tip of the arrow and the glue-in point, then marrying the two in a "perfectly suitable for me" arrow. (Yeah, I'm sure this is wrong, too...)""
The term 'wrong' is wrong. ;). How you do it is how you do it, not necessarily wrong. It can be wrong though when you are trying to get a bushing out that normally will come loose easily with a little heat on the point...that's why we use 'low temp hot melt'. ;))))
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From: M60gunner
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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No it’s not “wrong” the first time, it’s called experience. Good or bad that’s how we used to learn. And I learned the hard way not to overheat the carbon insert. I use a 250 grain field point screwed into the insert. It’s long enough that I don’t overheat the carbon.
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From: Viper
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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HARRY -
It's only "wrong" when it doesn't work. A lot of people I shoot with use hot melt and loose heads on a regular basis, because they are, in fact, doing it wrong.
It's kinda easy. Heat the shank of the head or insert and touch it to the hot melt stick (it will liquefy on contact), then shove it into the shaft, rotating as you go. If you heat only the glue stick, the glue will start cooling before it bonds.
Unfortunately, a lot of pundits and even arrow/glue manufacturers tell you to just heat the glue stick. Even worst, I've known more than one Pro-shop that uses CA's to glue in points and even push-in nocks - go figure.
Viper out.
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From: jk
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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Weird thread. The question was about the point/insert, not about the nock.
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From: The Whittler
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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I use Big Jim's hot melt, easy to use and works great. And I haven't had a point come off in any target.....yet :-)
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From: HARRY CARRY
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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Well: the glue-in 45/50 grain point has been SUCCESSFULLY removed from the 900-spine RugRatz carbon arrow. And...the method used was:
Acetone.
Since not all of the glue-in point was actually in the arrow (hence my dilemma), a couple of successive drops of Acetone on the exposed steel point (perhaps it's chromium)was enough to wick inside the carbon and break down the Loktite 420. Yes, an adjustable wrench was used...simply because I don't like the feel of Acetone on my bunged-up fingertips.
So, the arrow is STILL OK. The point was reglued, using the little-red (perhaps it's Amber colored, not sure since I'm colorblind) glue stick from Felines Archery. Heated both the glue stick AND the steel/chromium point over open flame, a drop or two of glue over the point's insert side, wicked over the entire insert, then pushed into the arrow shaft, for a nice, tight, snug fit.
My arrow is happy. I am happy. And I learned something by doing it.
Kinda makes for a worthy day, even when learning something that is common knowledge to most others....
Aloha & 73! de HARRY CARRY...Randy
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From: David McLendon
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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Nothing wrong with gluing or epoxying inserts i a shaft, you better be sure that you have what you want and need before you do it. I use hot melt during bareshaft and other tuning until I arrive at exactly what is going to do the job.
Contrary to what the "experts" will say, hot melt can/ has failed for me and left points and inserts in targets, mostly blocks and 3D's. That's a fact and there is no arguing that.
Once I have what I want in an arrow for a particular bow I don't get the urge to tinker or goof with what already works, so for final assembly everything is two part slow cure epoxy. If I want to do something different, I buy more shafts.
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From: David McLendon
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Date: 17-May-19 |
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However you get the point out, get a rifle cleaning bronze brush of appropriate size and some acetone and get all the old glue cleaned out before going again.
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