If you don't like this regimented/form orientated shooting, you don't need to comment. DON'T DO IT BECAUSE I DO IT, DO IT BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE TO YOU. All these form threads are no substitute for a coach. No matter how good any written word is, it can't point and say, “move this here”.

Today I was going to start with Aiming, but Badgerman send me an email question. After I responded he said that it helped him out so much that I should add it to the release information posted. So here it is.

With injuries add to form problems, it's hard to suggest corrections in person and about impossible without.  If you just put your hand behind your ear knuckles up and down, vertical, and then move them horizontal, you'll feel muscles in the forearm relax.

Everything should be relaxed in that forearm and wrist.  Go to the bail and think right at anchor 'relax' everything from the fingers to the elbow.  I can almost feel 'fibers' letting go of tension.  Then go on to transfer/alignment.

It may be better for you to shoot after the 'relaxed' feeling, but not if you spent too much time 'feeling' because then you'll may have to hurry the rest of the shot.  Letting down might be better.  Remember you have all the time in the world before the draw, once you draw time starts going faster.  Longer than 5 seconds at full draw and the odds of a strong shot go down.

After you get the relaxed feeling hook your shot to breathing and you'll develop a rhythm which will make the shot more subconscious, then the conscious mind can concentrate on aiming.  

Sorry if that answer was a little long, but everything is hooked together.

Todd

PS.  Funny, I'm pretty much working on the other hand.  I went to a sling and when I shoot I don't want anything to move in that bow hand.  I hold for 5 second after the shot and the first thing I check is the bow hand and then I want the string hand in the same position every time.  It's a Camera tip (he says 3 seconds,  My mind must be slower) and I think I mention it in one of the release threads.

Over to the topic of the day. I'm going to post a second towards evening, but I'd like to start it here with a question.

WHAT'S THE LAST THING YOU DO WHEN SHOOTING? (I'm looking for a sequence related answer.)

To reference past subjects search by clicking on key word;

**Stance** **Grip** **Hook** **Body Posture** **Head Position** **KSL Sequence** **Set Position** **Set Up Position** **Anchor** **Transfer to Hold** **Release** **Release 2 (Back Tension)

At the outset, these sequences are important, but with time, experience, and repetition they're natural...or should be.

All due respect, but I'd hate to need a mental checklist for every shot. Especially in hunting. Paralysis by analysis.

But for a learner, yeah.

As for the last part of my shot process, it's follow through. I watch the shot over the top of my bow arm, with my release held in place. Even in hunting, I watch a deer's response with my arm up. I hold my follow through well past impact.

""WHAT'S THE LAST THING YOU DO WHEN SHOOTING? (I'm looking for a sequence related answer.)""

When I wanted to get those fleeting 4 for 20's at 60 yards, the most important part, and last thing I had control over, was follow-through. Keeping the bow in position until you saw or heard the arrow strike. And, I remember when I did manage a 20, or 18 or even 16 on those long field targets, it was the follow-through that kept the arrow on tract. Don't know about other folks, but it still is the final thing I have to do.

"All due respect, but I'd hate to need a mental checklist for every shot. Especially in hunting. Paralysis by analysis."

With all due respect, if you interpret correctly Bowmania's topics, at the end of practice when all feels natural the "checklist" will be governed by your breathing. Analysis by synthesis.

For those that wonder if Bowmania's sequence can work for hunting. I've seen his trophy room and counted 19 species of big game on his wall, so I have to say it works once you groove the system so the shot happens subconsciously. Takes lots of bale work but it's worth it. Joel

Obviously what ever your thinking works weel for you. Everyone should be thinking the same thing?

Obviously what ever your thinking works weel for you. Everyone should be thinking the same thing?

What works for one person may not work for another. The only way to find out if it works for you is to try it.

"Everyone should be thinking the same thing?"

No. The BIG difference is this: some think, some don't.

Bowmania - as any other coach in any other sport - is giving a "way of thinking" that was proven to work when a newcomer in the sport is knocking on the door.

When all is said and done, thinking or not, we will follow the learning path toward the most efficient way of shooting the bow - it is the way the evolution made us - based on the task at hand. In the end, the Coach/ Teacher/ Sensei is verbalizing things that our body will do anyway, even if the archer is aware of not.

Have you ever thought how you actually "ingrain" a shooting sequence, what's the mechanism behind it?

Rallison, when you ingrain the sequence at the blank bail, there is no mental check list. It's all subconscious that's grip and rip crowd loose. They've got draw, anchor, release, they could have 50 more things and it would take the same amount of time.

Follow through is a reaction, so you can't help but do it. Not the answer.

George, you're pretty close.

Flash and Nemo if it works for all rifle shooters it should work for all archers.

It's actually TP related. And I believe the cause if you don't do it. Anymore answers?

Bowmania

Forget the last shot and concentrate on the one you are fixing to make. >>>>-----> Ken

"Rallison, when you ingrain the sequence at the blank bail, there is no mental check list."

Actually it is following a mental check list, or what do you think the "physical feeling" is?

Anything you learn through quality practice will ingrain, even though it follows a sequence, and it becomes a natural motion. That's my story.

I've coached hockey & baseball for a long time, and some golf also along the way...by the way, IMO golf is the toughest sport to even get proficient at, let alone "master"...I certainly haven't :^)

Anyway, I've been involved in the mental aspect of sport for years. A fascinating subject. The toughest distance for ANY athlete, in any sport, to overcome is 6 inches...between the ears. This includes archery.

Sports physiologists I've learned from say the human brain requires 6000 repetitions to develop "muscle memory", which in itself is a misnomer. Around that point, the brain can take over without conscious thought...it's a fast computer! If ingrained "wrong", then the brain needs to be retaught...a lengthy procedure.

In that regard, as a coach of beginner athletes I'm adamant to "do/learn it right". Especially true for goaltenders in hockey, and more so in golf.

Relative beginners in ANY sport, including archery, NEED to think through techniques and progression. But the day will dawn when "it" just happens. It's pretty cool to see on that day...I've told goalies they'll know when it first happens...they'll see a shot and know they're beat, then see the puck spinning towards the corner and find themselves extended or Vee'd out and have no idea how they got there. That's the first time "the brain" made the same. Every goalie I coached has told me, "Coach...it just happened!" They're utterly amazed and on their way to the next level.

For those who perhaps didn't read my post in it's entirety, or perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough, I'm sticking to my guns...or perhaps bows?

I feel being a "trad" hunter actually is advantageous once one has reached that level of pure muscle memory...even with that buck in tight, with the brain maybe going uh...uh...uh...the training can take over and the shot is pure.

As a side note...my bagpipe tutor says "it" takes 10,000 repetitions. I gotta go along with him for some embellishments! :^)

good stuff Todd,,,, I learned a lot from you in the few minutes on Saturday.... looking forward to getting a set up and learning more

The last thing I do is release the string , holding the bow is not the last thing you do, you did that before you drew the string back.

Really a nice job of proof reading Todd!!!

It should read: Rallison, when you ingrain the sequence at the blank bail, there is no mental check list. It's all subconscious that's what the grip and rip crowd loose.

If you go back and look at the KSL sequence the answer is there. How about another guess?

Bowmania

No guess there. You first need to be at anchor to feel the anchor, you need to engage the muscles to get the right feeling and etc. There is a reason why when you are blank baling you go there to understand parts of the shooting sequence. The more you get used with the CORRECT feeling, the better you start to understand the subtle relations between them.

Holding at the beginning of the shot is just a start. If you shoot long distance targets, you'll quickly find out that the last thing you can do is follow through, and that includes keeping that bow in place. You all may have varying mileage but that process got me into solid A class in PSAA field archery back forty years ago.

George, you are already holding the bow before release, the release is the last thing you physically do.

Not trying to argue, but that is the last thing you do, unless you want to include the cussing when you miss.....Ha!Ha!

Release is also a reaction. The last thing you do is aim.

Everything else you can do subconsciously. Aiming is the only thing that changes shot to shot. If you try (think) release or follow through and not aim, well that's going to be a disaster.

The problem comes when you try to do two things with the conscious mind. OK, I'm aiming, no I have to use back tension, NO AIM! NO BACK TENSION! and all of a sudden we jerk off target and release. After time we're doing it every shot. TP is installed in your shot sequence.

You've pretty much been on target since 'set up', once you get to anchor, transfer, back tension, you can fine tune that aiming process without thinking of anything else, because the release is a product of everything you've done before that.

Bowmania

*the last thing I do?*

Mentally ANALYZE the shot. Everything about it. From my frame of mind prior to commencing the shot sequence to maintaining the bow arm after releasing.

SA

Last thing I do is also analyze the shot. I try to understand what happened in a poor shot as mistakes make you better if you fix the mistake.

Doing something, anything, subconsciously is still DOING it. If you want to question only the things we do 'consciously', then that's how the question should he posed.

Like George, the last "shot sequence related thing" I do is follow through. It's important whether shooting long distance or short, stationary or moving targets, bows, flintlocks, shotguns, pistols, etc. Follow-through will separate the wheat from the chaff in most shooting sports.

First of all Todd, LOVE YOUR POSTS!! :-))

If I look at the entirety of my shot sequence I would, as I often do, agree with George. Follow through. Of course that doesn’t count all the swearing and throwing the bow across the lawn etc. LOL!

If it is the last thing I do before I release; then it’s starting my follow through by pulling my elbow backwards a bit Further so that my string presses up against my glasses more. That happens just AFTER I aim. My archery yoga mind is focused on that increase in back tension/effort And not the bull’s-eye.

This question will be in my mind as I shoot later today.

Thanks again Todd!

J.

I agree that a good follow through is one of the best things you should focus on. If you have a good follow through, your release was done well. I find my best shots are the ones where I have done a perfect follow through and I am seeing the back of my arrow all the way to the target.

WHAT'S THE LAST THING YOU DO WHEN SHOOTING?

I check the arrow in the target and take mental notes. That's when the shot ends for me.

PS For me the sequence is not ending until the arrow hits the target.

The shot is not over for me until the meat is packed into the freezer

Analizing the shot is AFTER the shot.

Follow through is AFTER the shot.

Arrow in the target - AFTER the shot.

If I posed the question different, somebody would have had the answer in a guess or two. After all AIMING is in the title.

Bowmania

That's what you think Bowmania. The follow through is after the shot? If is after the shot why is important?

KSL shooting sequence quote:

"At the conclusion of the follow-through, the body and mind need to get ready for the next shot."

What's the conclusion of follow through and when archer ends his mental part of the shot? When the arrow left the building? Shooting is not just physical action is mental too.

When I am hunting, every single shot is different in my stance and sequence. Good stickbow hunters, especially those who ground stalk do not have any two shots the same.

Follow-through is during the shot sequence and part of the shot process. It means 'following-through the shot'... keeping a steady bow arm as the string leaves the hand, returns to brace, and the arrow clears the bow. That's during, not after. But, whatever. Believe what you wish.

I have to agree with G.D.S. on this one. For me follow through is part of the aiming process. The release is subconscious, but as I'm aiming, I'm also pushing my bow arm to the target. If I don't consciously push or hold that arm still through the shot I'll end up wide left on my long shots. If I'm collapsing during the shot it's even worse. I'm going with follow through.

I know that Todd is very good at what he does,,,, I am going to have him coach me this summer.....

Todd mentioned the comparison on guns..... I was a full time instructor on tactical weapons for a lot of years, and also trained pure recruits.....

Bow or Gun,,,, You Will Perform As You Train,,,,,,,

Missouribreaks, My stance can be anything near standing on my head, but my sequence is always the same and my shoulders are always coming to alignment no matter what my feet are doing.

Jeff, I don't disagree with you. Like in golf if you hit the ball and stopped your swing a foot after the club hit the ball, your not going to have a good shoot.

I won't say that follow through isn't the last thing that happens in a good shot, but if you make a good shot YOU have not control over it happening. Just like the release - they're both reactions.

The last thing you should CONSCIOUSLY be doing during a shot is aiming. I'll surely give you that the last thing that happens (and it does before the arrow gets in the target) is follow through.

Kevin, Follow through is done with the string hand. It really has nothing to do with the aiming process. I consider the aiming process getting the arrow on the target when you release. AND like follow through you have to aim through the release.

Bowmania

I'm not challenging Todd's conclusion, we just look at it differently. Physically, the follow-through is very real and very important, and part of the total form. It is the last thing I have to control that decides whether a shot is spot on, or in my case low. We have different means of explaining what we do...after all, archery is a dynamic sport and how we do it doesn't always look the same, or described the same by every individual.

I actually disagree on what follow through is... I can do about anything I want with my string hand, but if my bow arm moves it takes the arrow with it. That being said I stay with my answer that the last thing I do is hold that aim with my bow arm pushing to the target. Great post with some great thoughts on shot sequence!

I run my shot sequence checklist at the Bale, I do it until I can shoot without consciously thinking each step of my checklist, when I need I will go back to the Bale and ingrain that shot sequence (quite often).

The less you HAVE to think, the better you will shoot BUT you have to go through building stage first. Once it's ingrained I'm probably feeling each stage of the sequence rather than consciously thinking about each step i.e. If I don't feel myself get to Anchor some alarm rings in my head that it feels wrong and I need to restart the shot sequence.

"We have different means of explaining what we do...after all, archery is a dynamic sport and how we do it doesn't always look the same, or described the same by every individual."

George, archery is not just how we physically do things, it has a mental component too. I never heard a bowhunter saying once his fingers released the arrow, he starts to look for his cigarette and watch, counting how much he has to wait before leaving the place he was hiding. The follow through has a mental component that rides it - no action is done without a reason during a shooting sequence, no matter how we think about it. You can say yourself no matter how many times "aim aim aim", if you don't want to see the result, that mantra is a waste of time. Looking forward to the topic about "breathing during the sequence" and see how that works if at release you end your shooting sequence. It should tell the real story for the physical part.

My stance is highly varied. Being primarily a ground stalker oftentimes I am just above the sage with my bow canted at least 45 degrees... to near horizontal. Sometimes sitting on my butt, other times on one or two knees, sitting on a log, or standing with my bow near vertical. Sometimes standing or sitting in a tree. Each requires the use of different muscles, and to varying degrees. May hold at full draw for a second to three if necessary, or release instantly at full draw. No technique to teach or replicate. Just 50 years of stickbow hunting.

Paul Brunner made some of the best videos on shooting the stickbow in various hunting situations, even laying on his back. One of the best " real deal " stickbow hunters, IMO. His videos are great.

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