From: Tweed
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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Good Morning!
I've been working on improving my form and sequence. So thanks for all the great threads.
The problem now is my draw length is about an in longer. My point on yardage used to be 20 yards. Now at 20 yards (as far as my yard will allow) I hold about 18 inches below. Psychologically this is very tough to do. Any advice to break through this mental barrier?
I'm hesitant to replace all my arrows with longer arrows because...well....money don't grow on trees.
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From: Tweed
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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Right after I posted this I realized I could just try three under rather than my current split finger. Sometimes I just need to type or say things out loud.
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From: Therifleman
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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Hi Casey, I sent you a PM. John
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From: Bowmania
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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Tweed, what are you going to do if you have to shoot 25 yards? Your fist will be covering what you want to hit.
The mental barrier you're dealing with is just a habit. I'll bet my gap at 20 is 40+ inches. So my gap at 40 is pretty much what you have at 20 with split finger. Guess what? I'm pretty good at 40.
The reason I don't know what my gap is at 20 yds or any other distance is I don't look at it in inches, because if I did I'd have to know the distance in yards. Might be good for people coming from the compound world, but any time you put numbers on anything it's going slow down your shot.
Go back to split. Pick a distance and stick an arrow in the ground and always put your left toe there if your RH. The distance should be 12 to 16 yards, doesn't really matter. Put a dot on the target, put your left toe at the arrow. Shoot an arrow with the point of the arrow on the dot. With your 20 yard 18 inch gap, let's say the arrow impacted 20 inches above the spot.
Shoot another arrow, arrow point on the dot. It should have impacted 20 inches above the spot again. You have two arrows 20 inches above the dot. NOW, shoot another arrow but aim BELOW the dot 20 inches. Stare at the dot and see the arrow in your perpheral vision below the dot and duplicate the distance from the dot to the first two arrows you shot, but below the dot We don't really know or care if it was 20 inches. Shoot the arrow.
Where did it hit. Well if you did everything correctly it had to hit the dot. Do it again. Did you you hit the dot? Do it again. MEMORIZE THAT GAP. Did you memorize that gap?
Go pull ALL the arrows including the two above. Then put your left toe on the arrow and see if you memorized the gap. Continue to shoot and become familiar with that gap. What happens is you're really memorizing a gap AND a sight picture. When you go to another distance think, "this gap looks about right for this distance". It's a bigger gap if you're closer and smaller if your further. It's really an estimation of the gap you memorized with your toe on the arrow.
After time there's no estimation it's just I KNOW THE GAP FOR THAT SIGHT PICTURE. This is harder to learn than oh yea that gap is 20 inches, but talk about faster!!! The beauty of learning gap this way is you become instinctive for those closer shots (your subconscious takes over). For longer shots you go back to "this looks about right".
You won't beat the 20 inch gappers to start, but over time you will. And for hunting when your excited it can't be beat.
By the way it's how Tom Clum shoots. Me too. I've been doing it for 50 years.
Bowmania
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From: Tweed
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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Todd- This is your fault! I listened to you and got that extra inch of draw.
Hope to see you at bowjam next week.
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From: Tweed
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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:-)
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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My point on is 55'ish yards, but I have no trouble at fifteen or twenty. What you need to do is spend time with your setup and learn to shoot the close targets...as mentioned above by Todd. Folks keep looking for shortcuts when they could, if they just applied themselves, learn to shoot those close shots just as well, or nearly so as a string walker...without all the gozintos.
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From: Beendare
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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Its a fact that the smaller the gap at the distance you are shooting is going to be more accurate.
Many ways to accomplish this; Higher anchor, longer arrow, String walking, fixed crawl.
I know guys that shoot pretty good with a longer point on- a bigger gap at short yardage.
it really depends on what degree of accuracy you are after.......
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From: JustSomeDude
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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Definitely 3 under.
Even then, guys that are shooting that short point on are using full length arrows and raising their nock points up very high and using very high anchor points.
Where do you anchor now?
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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Beendare, it also depends on how well you now your equipment and that you aren't changing how you do things so much. I haven't changed my style for over 50 years and I can do as well at close range as many guys who fuss over learning a different way. My guess is folks could do it if they didn't fiddle so much.
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From: Tweed
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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JustSomeDude- I anchor to corner of mouth and nose to string.
I've toyed with three under. I believe at the time I anchored corner of mouth and nose to fletching.
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From: Bowmania
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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I like George's comment about short cuts. Years ago a guy explained the gap to me. Made sense compared to what I was doing. I tried it for a couple of weeks and then ran into the guy who told me how to gap. I said it's a really long distance at a 20 yard target to hold under the spot. He said, "learn to live with it". Simular to George my point on is 62 yards.
Bowmania
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From: reddogge
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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Just visualize your gap at the riser and not the target. So your 18" gap at the target will transform into a 1" gap at the riser. Very easy to manage.
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From: JRT51
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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That is exactly how I think. Much easier to think or estimate in "gaps" of 1/16" at 28" than 1nches at 20 yards. Being an old carpenter I can tell the difference between 1/2" and 9/16" so quick it becomes instinctive.
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From: Tweed
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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Well shot a bit after work this evening.
Toyed with 3 under but went back to split. Adjusted my head both physically and mentallly. Really forcing myself to aim lower than my brain says. It helped but the muscle memory isn't there yet.
A few thousand arrows from now I'm confident that I'll adapt.
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From: limbwalker
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Date: 05-Apr-19 |
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I shoot 3 under and due to the shape of my face, my long draw and heavier bows, I also have an 18" gap at 20 yards. You get used to it with lots of practice.
Ditch the split. There is no advantage to it and it will only exacerbate your problem.
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From: lost run
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Date: 06-Apr-19 |
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The gap will become instinctive. Ha Ha.
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From: Wild Bill
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Date: 06-Apr-19 |
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As a gap shooter that does not assign a numerical value to the gap, I would say that the description given by Bowmania is the best I've seen on Leatherwall.
Although I agree with Lost Run, gap shooting is never instinctive, but consistently more accurate, due to conscience aiming, although quickly as the skill is ingrained.
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From: Therifleman
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Date: 06-Apr-19 |
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Reddogge's technique is basically what i applied as explained in my PM to you. Gapping at the bow, for me meant dealing with very small increments rather than 15" at 20 yards. And for me is surprisingly accurate.
Definitely try different things and find what is right for you. Once you've found the method that works best, settle in and refine it.
The smart shooter learns as much as they can about their equipment, their form and what style fits. We're all built and wired differently, find what works best for you. There is no right or wrong way.
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From: Babysaph
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Date: 06-Apr-19 |
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Too much yardage estimation for me. I can't judge yardage which is why I switcged from a compound in the 80's. I always used the wrong pin. I got better when I did not have to mentally put a number on my target. Now having said that I can not shoot as good as you gapers but can shoot well enough to hunt.
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From: lost run
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Date: 06-Apr-19 |
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I'm with Babysaph, but I shoot with a guy who can judge yardage very quick and very good. He can shoot very fast when he wants.
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From: reddogge
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Date: 06-Apr-19 |
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I hunt from either tree stand or ground blind and a range finder to mark reference points like a bush or tree or rock in your range is your friend. Besides, I only have to remember two gaps, close to 20 yards and 25 yards. After that, it generally is too far to shoot.
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From: Beendare
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Date: 06-Apr-19 |
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Good point George...in fact I was a classic example to which you speak of bouncing around.
I had a few different bows, which were all just a little different. I scrapped a few of them [so I wouldn't be tempted /grin]...and pretty much concentrate on two almost identical bows at different poundage.
To your point....my shooting improved.
It seems no matter what aiming method, there is a benefit to letting our brains calibrate for one bow.
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