I am posting this because I read molemans post on draw length. on the TAS site.

When I was shooting my Bear Tamerlane, due to the style of shooting my draw length was 27.5. Now that I went back to my Hill style of shooting or hunting style what ever you want to call it. I was wondering about my draw length.

Measurement from out stretched hands measure 71 which converts to 28" draw, I had my wife mark the arrow after I drew to anchor and to my surprise it measured 25.5, wow! was I disappointed or re leaved to find this, I don't know I have mixed thoughts on this. I am building a couple of self-bows and now I need to re-direct my setup to the lesser draw length. I even made up an arrow with a piece of cardboard that would slide on the shaft when I drew it, it gave me the same measurements.

I'm 6' 3" with an arm spread of 71" with a 25.5 draw length, I get the same measurement every time so I obviously am drawing consistently even with a bent arm.

Are any of you folks having the same experience? have you re-checked your draw length recently?

Hey Ron, the older we get, the shorter everything gets!;^)

My draw length was 29.5 when 30yrs old, now at 72, lucky to get it back to 28"! Just shrinkage I guess!

We are getting older too. I pushed 29" with a recurve a long time ago. Now I am around 25-26". Jawge

I'll have to check. I seemed to have gotten old all of a sudden somehow myself ;^)

Mine has shortened too Ron. I’m 5’7-1/2” short and always drew just under 28”. Now I draw 27” with a recurve and 26-1/2” with a longbow. It varies a little with the grip of each bow but not much. Lance

For some reason that does not sound right. I am 6'-1" and my draw is 31" Are you bringing your head way forward or really bending your bow arm?

Sorry Jeff, didn't mean to make you feel old.

Hey Ron, the older we get, the shorter everything gets!

Hey Wyatt!!!! speak for your self...LOL!!!

Jawge, Thank you, now I feel better, I thought I had a dislocated shoulder or something, at least I checked and won't mess up my draw length on my new bows, I hope it doesn't go any shorter.

This is why my hickory bow seemed to be smooth and easy to draw, I was short drawing it....Ha!Ha!

Thanks for the reply's fellas

I agree with Live2hunt. I'm 70, 6' and have a 30" draw.

Well, I have the opposite experience. At 75, I have worked on my shot sequence, draw and anchor while working through Jim Casto's TP program. I worked with Jim before beginning and realized that I was not using my back muscles as I ought to. I moved my anchor from a canine tooth to the joint of my jaw and went from about 27 1/2" draw to 30 1/2" draw. The anchor point is so much better for me and more consistent and I am now using my back muscles in the draw and anchor as I should. Trouble is, I wound up with some bows too heavy and arrows too short! So I have an excuse to mess with some new stuff after I sell some of my current stable of bows. I am 6' tall

Some people have arm spans to don't necessarily match their height.

Guys -

When I was a lot younger, my draw length was a bit proud of 29". It stayed that way until about 2 years ago, when a form change resulted in being a little shy of 29". I'm only in my 60's so maybe shrinkage hasn't hit yet, but I might be in decent shape.

Ron -

If you're 6'3" and have a 25.5" draw, you are doing something terribly wrong, not the least of which is giving up a lot of "free" horse power.

Viper out.

Flash, are you trying to say that there are some knuckle draggers on here? I was just checking mine yesterday. I put half inch marks on a light colored arrow and have my wife video it while I draw. I am about 27" now with a longbow. Stand 5'9 1/2". I have also had her video it while I am shooting to get a more realistic view.

I thought that I used to draw more than that, but never really checked when actually shooting.

My draw length shortened an inch when I switched to left handed! With your arm spread I can't believe your draw is so short!

I'm with Viper!! Something seriously wrong with your draw technique. You should be around 29 to 30"!! People just aren't that far out of proportion! Post a video!!!!!

Arne

Ron....I think there's more at play here than initially hits the mind...things like?...

1. You don't mention what sort of bow you're using with your Hill Style but if it's a Hill Style/Longbow?....you'll get a shorter DL measurement too the front of the bow as compared to your Tamerlane/Recurve.

2. The True DL of an archer with a 28" draw actually measures 26 1/4" too the center of where any risers cushion plunger hole should be.

3. When I shot Hill Style with ASL bows?...it was always with a much lower wrist position annnnnd?...a bit more bend in my bow arm elbow.

So?...things may very well be shorter but not quite as short as they seem. ;)

Most folks will draw a pistol grip recurve a half to an inch longer than a straight gripped ASL, just due to the lower wrist position of the grip on the latter. Couple that with the tendency to bend the bow arm a bit more with the ASL, and perhaps even to lean in a little more, and it's easy to see why draw length might decrease quite a bit from recurve to ASL.

I'm getting a bit long in the tooth as well, but can't say as my draw length has changed. I don't bend my arm or lean in my head any more with a recurve than with an ASL, but I draw the ASLs about a half inch less (due to the straight grip) than I do recurves, and that hasn't changed much over the years.

Same here. The grip and site window are smaller on a longbow verses a recurve,so even the same draw length will leave more overhang on a longbow.

whoops...missed one...

4. "Higher DW"?: Compresses my Bow Arm/Comporession side while stretching out my Drawing/Tension side.

5-10 extra lbs of DW can chop 1/4"-1/2" off my DL

With the Hill style of shooting a longbow as I was taught by Schulz, we measured my draw length the old fashioned way by putting a yardstick against my sternum. I have a 78" wingspan, am 6'2" and the yardstick measured 26 3/4" where my fingertips touched. Shooting a fluid Hill style, heel down wrist, with no loss of back tension, consistent anchor point and a dynamic pull through release I shoot just under 27" draw. To infer that there is something wrong with RonG's shooting style based on his draw length is ridiculous. Not every shooting method is target style, rotational draw, bone on bone, clock face, elbow pointing behind you, etc.

Tell me this guy doesn't have good back tension, even though his drawing elbow isn't pointed behind him. Obviously there are other methods to shooting a longbow than what is being promoted by the majority, who in reality, never shoot much outside of their back yard or target range.

Not to mention, after 40 or so, a man loses about 1% strength per year, (supposedly), so pulling a 60lb bow might take a little more effort than it used to! At least it does for me. Gonna be dropping back to the fifties here soon!

TELL'EM NATE!!! :)

Seemed the same when I shot a four wheeler wheelie bow and all those recurves too through the years - 26 inches. Might have been different if I shot some bows with sights etc, like in the earlier freestyle divisions of the past where they would anchor below their chin, but always shot with an anchor at the corner of my mouth. Aways canted all my bows only slightly but the wheelie bow, which had to be shot more upright, but with fingers, plastic rest plus berger button, with a side mouth anchor.

Crap !...That means I've lost 28% of my pulling power! No wonder I can't draw 80# anymore!

my draw with trad bows is 25 & compound 26. it gives you an abundance of of arrow choices. what's the problem

RonG, you said you shoot the Hill style that tells me your bending at the waist and a bent elbow which will give you short draw.

Didnt Hill himself say he came up with this style to shorten his draw because of the poundage he short he had better access to arrows for him.

Howard Hill didn't bend at the waist nearly as often or as much as inferred on here most of the time.

Howard Hill adapted to the shot scenario. H was versatile enough and understood shooting enough to realize that squatting, stooping, etc. was not typically required and could in fact be detrimental to shooting.

He was relaxed and natural, but certainy not wadded up in a ball. Neither was John Schulz.

Cool pics, look at how far the arrow os outside his eye. Amazing to me.

What is the easiest and most accurate way of measuring ones draw length? I have used the clothes pin method, and measured from clothes pin on arrow to the valley of nock at full draw. Is that accurate or do you have another way other than a second person marking the arrow?

Draw lines on an arrow every 1/2" from the end of the arrow back a few inches and shoot relaxed at a target at shoulder height. Have someone watch to see which line you draw to the majority of the time. That's it. Multiple color lines help the observer

Yes Shoe, that clothes pin method is accurate. Do it 3 or 4 times to make sure that you are doing it consistently.

Howard was a tall guy. According to Schulz Howard shortened his draw from thirty inches to 28 by canting his bow to about 1:30 and dropping his head so his site picture would be bigger . This is as close as I remember anyway. Arvin

Sorry but I don't think the clothespin deal will give you an accurate telling of your draw...you will know it's there and most likely try to pull it further.

What Nate said is better at getting your true draw. You can videotape yourself also but you need either way to forget about being watched or video taped. Relax and concentrate on hitting the mark...shoot a bunch of arrows, not just a few. You'll soon find what your true draw length is....don't be surprised. ;)

I don't like to get on these threads regarding form...had my share of them years ago. But Ron is getting hammered that he has something seriously wrong going on with his draw...not imo.

Nate Steen already covered that very well...read his post again....and again.

Well, I checked mine again by video using my slim Thunberbird and was around 26 or 26 1/2. I also shoot an ASL. I then got out the yard stick and did that and it came out right at 26". Sure explains a lot.

My questioning of his draw length is that I would have to question my draw length. Ron is 4.5" shorter than mine and we are 1" different in height? I don't like having to deal with a longer arrow, but 31" is me at full draw. If I were to shorten it 4-1/2" I would have to force myself to. Also, in looking through those photos of Hill shooting, I am pretty damn close to that style of shooting.

My bad I ment to say he leaned into the shot. Thanks fdp.

A long term bowyer/bowhunter friend puts it this way. Your draw length is whatever feels comfortable to you at the time. Depending on what I am shooting my draw length can be as long as 31 and as short as 28. And that is the joy of shooting a stickbow. It will work fine at any reasonable draw length.

DDave

Hmmm, Hill has almost no pressure on his ring finger. I can’t shoot with my elbow bent as much as Hill. I see Shultz has a straighter elbow and more ring finger pressure. Even a protege can have different form from the mentor.

I wonder if shoulder width plays are part in this also? I’m just shy of 6’3” and skinny, and my draw length is 28” with strait handled longbows and closer to 29” with highwrist grips. Doing the yardstick to the chest measurement comes in at 28” with a relaxed arm extension, but longer if I stretch. I know guys much shorter than me but with broader shoulders that have a longer draw length than I do...

Thank you kind folks, I will have my wife take a photo of my draw and check the mark on the arrow to make sure I draw the same, will post shortly.

The first photo shows my normal draw with the tape on the arrow at 26" confirming my 25.5 to 26: draw.

The second photo more of my draw length.

I will have her take a picture if you guys can stand it....Ha!Ha! At 1/4 angle, it almost looks like My form may be too close together, I'm not sure, photo coming shortly.

Thank you everyone

Too me, it looks like your bow arm is where you are reducing your length compared to my draw. You bend your elbow more and your bow arm dips more at the shoulder than what I do. Nothing wrong with it, just comparing to my draw.

Ron -

Your bow arm is bent (way too far) and you're riding your bow shoulder. Your string side is nowhere near fully expanded.

Now, if you like shooting that way - carry on.

The problem with "shooting like Howard Hill" is that you ain't him and frankly, he's probably done as much harm to modern "trad" types as Asbell.

Viper out.

Here is another two photo's, may not help, but

So I need to straighten out my bow arm at the elbow, I can't open my stance or the string will contact the arm guard.

If I straighten my bow arm then my shoulder will come up.

I almost lost my left arm in a bad motorcycle accident, I personally spent a year doing my own physical therapy after the therapists gave up and wrote my arm off as unusable, that may be why I don't like to extend it so much.

I am very accurate at grouping arrows and hitting what I am shooting at, it just bothered me that I am losing so much power from my bows by under drawing them.

Nate: thank you for the support, I have shot this way most of my life and it is difficult to change especially when I am accurate and consistent, I just need to make my self-bows match my form, I guess, unless you think I should try to open my stance up a little. I am not a target shooter, just a hunter, I like to go stumping, have to be careful in Florida with all the soft ground or your arrows will disappear....Ha!Ha!

Viper has helped me get my form together about five years ago and I thank him for that, it worked great with my Tamerlane, but target form doesn't work for me with an ASL.

Viper, what do you mean by riding my bow shoulder, I don't understand that one, thank you

Ron -

Yup.

Viper out.

Obviously if one is over bowed and short drawing that's one thing..but for me...

shooting hills bows I personally need to bend my elbow which shortened my draw length to stop migraines as compared to say my shrew - period

and if I shoot heavy bows over to which I am not accustomed too not only am I losing w/ bent elbow but short drawing as well.

Every day at the range I see guys shorting drawing their bows because they are over bowed yet deny it. I ask what length are your arrows and they say 29"BOP and yet have 4-5 inches sticking over the shelf. Their bow shows say 55@28, I know their only pulling about 45# All hill photos above show the same bent elbow, not stiff arm like Olympic shooters.

Ron It's a habit when I put on my archery equipment... Jim mine are 27.5 BOP

I am going to try and raise my shoulder and see what happens on the first shot today.

Well, I got the arrow with the tape set at 26" I raised my bow arm as level as I could get it and straightened my elbow as straight as I could get it, my wife was looking from the side and she said that my arm was a lot straighter than before, I drew way back as far as I could draw without losing my anchor, in other words I moved my right foot back so as to draw longer.

I gained 1/2 inch so my draw length is 26.5" that way. So I can't gain anymore so I will now have everything made to 26"

Thank you everyone for your input. I guess the accident changed more than I thought.

FDP, Thank you for all those pictures, I feel better because after perusing the photo's intensely there aint nuttin wrong with my form.

If I brought my right arm further back my anchor would be in my ear, if I straightened my bow arm I would only gain a half inch, not worth learning to shoot all over again.

So by getting my bows at the poundage I want at 26" I am good to go.

Thank you everyone, you all have helped greatly and Frank that was a lot of work posting all the photo's.

In my brief but intense studies of the swing draw?...

One simply grabs the grip as though they were picking up a briefcase...this results in a very straight knuckled grip as opposed to the 45degs the knuckles of the typical higher wristed tourney archer where another byproduct of the swing draw is the very relaxed elbow angle which culminates in a shorter length of draw because?...

nothing about the swing draw involves any step by step movements into any consciously forced positions...it's one RELAXED & NATURAL fluid motion.

Thanks Jinkster, that is what it is a relaxed positive movement that doesn't tire you out and produces successful hits if you keep at it.

RnG, another thing that you are doing (and it isn't bad, it's just part of why) is you are anchoring on the front of your face rather than the side. That too will shorten your raw length to some degree. Simple fact that the further you move your hand down the side of your face the longer your draw length gets.

Rocky Miller anchored almost exactly like that and he was a pretty fair shot. I've known some others that were as well.

"I am very accurate at grouping arrows and hitting what I am shooting at..."

You have what we all seek, don't mess it up.

"I am very accurate at grouping arrows and hitting what I am shooting at..."

You have what we all seek, don't mess it up.

I must be doing something wrong because I'm 6' tall but draw a measured 28" (29" BOP).

The only thing I will add is not regarding Ron G. It's about the "you can't shoot a Hill bow with a straight arm". I can, and I do. They are just a bow, much like other longbows, and if your pivot is the actual center of balance, you can shoot them even open handed with good effect. Just because someone says you can't do something, doesn't mean it can't be done and done well.

Back tension makes longer draws . The guy in the pic does not appear to be locked in. Yes can't your bow and you won't hit your nose or your arm! ONLY MY OPPINION. Arvin

Back tension makes longer draws . The guy in the pic does not appear to be locked in. Yes can't your bow and you won't hit your nose or your arm! ONLY MY OPPINION.i also noticed in the pics of Howard he has a bit of a high elbo. Never noticed that before. Arvin

Mr. Stout -

Yeah, me too. 40/50 years ago nobody told us we had to shoot like Howard Hill...

Viper out.

Hey folks, I never said I had to shoot like Howard Hill or am Howard Hill, what I was wondering is why my draw is so short, and actually I answered my own question after looking at the photo my wife took and tried to straighten my arm and couldn't, so what did I get, a target archer who put me down in two posts, gee whiz maybe I ought to look for a site that caters a little bit to us individuals who have a disability and are trying to figure out how to make use of it.

I explained that I almost lost the use of my left arm and I would have if I didn't do my own rehabilitation on myself for over a year and that obviously my shoulder doesn't want my arm to extend and my wrist is mostly frozen, but I guess I am supposed to overlook that part.

I apologize for being partially crippled Viper.

Thank you all that helped me figure this out.

RonG out.

On the bright side Ron. You can make shorter selfbows now if you'd like. I kinda like a short draw for hunting. It's usually hard for me to get the critters to stand still long enough for me to use perfect form. If your hitting what you wanted to I wouldn't change a thing. Bjrogg

Ron, I tiller my self bow because I short draw them. I tiller them to stack right at my draw with my thumb hitting the corner of my mouth. If you want to see how I shoot check out some of Ryan Gill video, he used to go twistedlimbs on here. I shoot like he shoots.

I shoot bout 25 inch draw with my self bows, thats how I like it,,,, I can shoot shorter draw with Native style bows as well,,, if I am making a bow for someone with a longer draw, I can do that and enjoy it,, but the 25 is where I am most comfortable and consistant,,

I will add, that when you are shooting a bow that is made to perform best at the 28 or so draw,, it is probably a performance advantage to do so,, and I think thats why alot of folks shoot a longer draw,, that may not otherwise,, good form can dictate the draw as well,,and has been discussed for ever here, I agree,, if you feel more comfortable at a shorter draw as I do,, a bow can be made to perform well with a shorter power stroke,, no need to argue which is better ,,longer or shorter,, but a short draw can have very nice cast or game killing cast,, the guys that are really great shots know what they are talkikng about,, and prove it with the accuracy they achieve,, Native Americans made a living with some bows that were very short draw as well, so its not a new concept at all, enjoy your shooting....

Great, thank you folks, at least I found out that I was drawing short, if you want to call it that it's only two inches shorter than 28, that is not too bad, yes I am comfortable at that draw and very accurate, not trying to get better, I can take home anything I release an arrow on.

I'm kind of glad I held off on finishing my HHB self-bow, now I can make it the correct draw length for me.

I am glad to get my internet back it has been down for 5 days.

Thanks Brian, Will and Parker, you folks are true gentlemen.

Maybe you creep up on it and that's why you have shortened.

Or your not stretching it out to were you think your real anchor is. If you have a continual pull then you wouldn't have a creep up.

I watch my mentor creep up and you then point it out to him and many times he still didn't believe it.

This isn't rocket science its just being in tune with whats going on.

Cat, I figured it out by looking at my photo's My bow arm won't straighten out anymore than what I show in the photo due to a disability. Thanks for the input.

Ron, If you had mentioned your armm in your OP, you would probably would have received a different set of answers. Walt Wilhelm's arm disability didn't hinder his shooting ability any. bvd

Earl, I didn't realize that was the problem until I saw the photo's and tried to straighten my arm out. Then that is when it struck a note, I realized I wasn't doing what I thought.

It felt to me that my arm was straight, not shooting with anyone to see the problem, after I saw it then I mentioned the arm injury also after someone mentioned my arm was bent near the shoulder.

I wondered why my draw length was short and this post helped me find out why.

Ron, glad you have it figured out. One problem on here is, some people just read the OP and skip the rest of the thread. bvd

Good for you RonG...you were never doing anything wrong, you were doing what was comfortable for you and hitting the mark. You adapted from your injury and made it work. You were fine all along,,, you only started second guessing yourself when reading from the many threads that preached it's this or that way ... wannabe coaches that most likely mean well but want to impose their way on others...cuz that's the ONLY way it works for them ..and can't, or won't accept other, more natural instinctive shooting that doesn't involve a 4 or 6 or 15 step process... sequence, whatever.

Yessir, you're doing fine, don't let anybody tell ya different.

Ron, I believe you have figured it out. You may be doing the best you can do, so do the best you can with what you have to work with. Howard killed a mountain of game and won hundreds of events drawing about as far as you do. Good luck with it. - lbg

Thank you gentlemen.

Folks, since my draw length has changed I figured I had better re-check my self-bows, well my yew bow is 37lbs at my 26" draw and my Hickory is 36lbs at my 26" draw, what a disappointment. No wonder my woods with 190 grain tips are dropping a foot in 20 yards, It would be better to throw them.

I guess they will come in handy when I get to be 80 if I get there.

I received a bow that measured 64lbs at 28" I put it on my tillering rig and measured 55 @ my 26" draw, and also confirmed the 64 lbs.

I am getting that bow reduced to around 49 to 50 lb. that will keep me in shape for a stronger bow.

By the way those arrows with the 190 points didn't qualify for this one, I had to go to 64 lb spined arrows with 140's

my draw length has gradually increased. It's recently gone up another half inch or so, I've been shooting a shelfless bow and noticed that the tips of my 28.5" bop arrows have started climbing onto my finger. not really a problem with field tips, but I've got to order new hunting arrows before squirrel season.

you obviously are lengthening your bow arm or facing away from the target forcing you to draw further. Is your bow lower in poundage then you have been shooting.

Hey everyone! I reread my answer to Viper and it wasn't normally me, I was frustrated with my short draw and didn't realize that I was so choked up on my form, until I saw the photo, I measured 27.5..... 4 years ago, now I am 26"

I apologize to everyone who read it and and to viper, I just went off!!!!!!

I don't like to disrespect anyone, it's just my old age and constant pain getting the best of me.

Ron -

No worries, just keep shooting.

One problem we all face on the Internet is the inability to "see" the other person - in person. If we could, the actual arm problem would have been obvious, and the responses would have been different.

Thanks for posting that.

Viper out.

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