Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Hardened broadheads?

Messages posted to thread:
Kevin Lawler 15-Mar-19
timex 15-Mar-19
Tedd 15-Mar-19
aromakr 15-Mar-19
raghorn 15-Mar-19
Tom Baldwin 15-Mar-19
fdp 15-Mar-19
Kevin Lawler 15-Mar-19
David McLendon 15-Mar-19
fdp 15-Mar-19
hvac tech 15-Mar-19
twostrings 15-Mar-19
hvac tech 16-Mar-19
Scoop 16-Mar-19
dean 16-Mar-19
hvac tech 16-Mar-19
Riverwolf 16-Mar-19
raghorn 16-Mar-19
dean 16-Mar-19
hvac tech 16-Mar-19
larryhatfield 16-Mar-19
Mpdh 16-Mar-19
dean 16-Mar-19
kokosing 16-Mar-19
Kevin Lawler 17-Mar-19
dean 17-Mar-19
mgmicky 17-Mar-19
Riverwolf 17-Mar-19
Beendare 17-Mar-19
Texas King 17-Mar-19
From: Kevin Lawler
Date: 15-Mar-19




I like watching Forged in Fire. It's interesting to see what the bone chop will do the edge of a hardened blade. After watching it, it has occurred to me that a non hardened head could possibly loose an edge if it hits a rib/bone on entrance. Is that a concern and if so what kinda things do you do to remedy that? Do bleeder blades help combat the problem? Could serrated, not scalloped, heads help with that?

From: timex
Date: 15-Mar-19




there's been literally millions of animals killed with any type broadhead imaginable get it as sharp as you can put it in the animals vitals where it's supposed to be & if it hits a rib going in so be it it will still kill the animal

From: Tedd
Date: 15-Mar-19




Broadheads are made of very high quality hardened steel.

From: aromakr Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 15-Mar-19




I've always been a fan of a micro-serration on a broadhead. And a broadhead doesn't get the punishment that a knife does on that program. A bear razor head is extremely soft and it get the job done, don't over think the situation.

Bob

From: raghorn
Date: 15-Mar-19




IF the edge is too hard it can chip. Too soft and it won't hold an edge.

From: Tom Baldwin Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 15-Mar-19




Aromaker is right. But, Raghorn is right too. A perfect example is the old magnum 1 and magnum 2. I always liked the looks of that head and it was hard enough to hold an edge a long time. But, I tried them several times over a great many years thinking maybe I had just found a bad batch, and had repeated breakages because they were just too brittle.

From: fdp
Date: 15-Mar-19




Broadhead only has to hold an edge for one cut. Then it is going to be resharpened. I've made dozens of broadheads out of tespoons that I bought at second hand stores and they sail through critters just like any other well sharpened broadhead.

From: Kevin Lawler
Date: 15-Mar-19




So there is no chance that a rib would dull the finely sharpened edge of a shaving sharp broadhead as it entered? My son was surprised at the damage that was done to a shaving sharp broadhead that went into soft, wet dirt.

From: David McLendon
Date: 15-Mar-19




Most broadheads are not hardened steel, well who is this a big surprise for really?

From: fdp
Date: 15-Mar-19




Of course there's a chance, And it's likely that when a broadhead hits a bone, the edge is affected. Does it matter? Not enough to worry about. A broadhead isn't a knife. It doesn't cut like a knife nor does it cut like razor. It cuts and penetrates due to a combination of the relatively sharp edge and the energy created by the bow.

Don't know what kind of broadhead your son was using, but I've shot game with a 3 blade Muzzy. picked up, put it in my quiver, and killed another critter with it and never touched the blade.

If hardening the edge of a broadhead was a significant advantage someone would have made it a "thing" several hundred years ago. Hardening steel is not new.

And, at some point there might be company that does it. Seems a certain percentage of the population is wiling to pay for what for me would be an exorbitant amount of money for one. I don't need the status symbol, and no of no animal that requires that. Particularly since everything on earth has been killed by regular old broadheads for a long, long time.

From: hvac tech
Date: 15-Mar-19




The bear razorhead is not soft all that soft i checked them they are about 35 RC scale plenty hard enough you only cut one time then sharpen them .The Zwickeys are about 48 RC and are harder to sharpen .

From: twostrings
Date: 15-Mar-19




Soft steel, the kind that feels gummy under the file and cuts like a torn tin can. Some wicked.

From: hvac tech
Date: 16-Mar-19




Those heads are tool steel high carbon

From: Scoop Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 16-Mar-19




Kevin, you asked about bleeder blades. A friend shot a spike elk in the forehead with a Bear head with bleeder blades in the late ‘60s. I cut it out, fully expecting the bleeder blades to be sheared off. They were fully intact and could have been stropped a bit and used again. The two-blade was. Penetration was about five inches and the wooden shaft was sheared off flush with the forehead. Both of us were impressed and would have bet the flimsy bleeders would have failed.

In this world of transparency and full disclosure, my partner was aiming for a double lung shot at the broadside spike that was looking at him and missed. But we don’t tell anyone about that.

From: dean
Date: 16-Mar-19




My buddy that works as machinists that makes fancy metal parts, told me that Bears were 40 to 44. I had him test some 140 Hills that would not file, they were knife hard over 50rc. That was a batch of Hill 140s that were made harder on purpose according to Craig. I used a Dremel to sharpen those. Softer metal may hold an edge better with file sharpening. My wife shot two Bears through a deer, one was honed and one was resharpened in the field with a file, after she test shot one into a round bail. After going through the deer the file sharpened Bear was sharper. The Hill method, if done right works very well, the Tom Mussato version is a refined explanation of that method. It is a very durable edge method for softer metals.

From: hvac tech
Date: 16-Mar-19




Dean the bears razorhead do vary a lot most of the ones i checked were softer than 40 which still is not soft by any means . I still think Fred wanted them that way so you easily sharpen them in the field . IMHO

From: Riverwolf
Date: 16-Mar-19

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



...don't know the hardness of the Bear SS Razorheads. I just call them a "Perfect" balance.... More times than not , its in one side --out the other ---and stuck in the dirt somewhere beyond .;^)

Easy to file sharpen , easy with a Rada ...Tough as well .

From: raghorn
Date: 16-Mar-19




Living bone is not as hard as people think. Especially the ribs.

From: dean
Date: 16-Mar-19




Especially deer ribs. I shot one my nearly worn out single bevel serrated Hills horizontally through a deer's rib. It hit dead center and went though without breaking the rib. The rib on the exit was not hit dead center and it went. I do not know what Ribtecs hardness is, but they sharpen beautifully with a file.

From: hvac tech
Date: 16-Mar-19




Deer bones are tougher than domestic bones like cows bones .

From: larryhatfield
Date: 16-Mar-19




Deer bones and cow bones are like comparing toothpicks and laths, and the cow bones are not the toothpicks.

From: Mpdh Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 16-Mar-19




How does a broadhead go through a deer rib without breaking it?

MP

From: dean
Date: 16-Mar-19




It cut a horizontal slot, the edges of the blade were equidistant from each edge, it sawed through and did not break it, the deer dropped hard at 62 Mike paces from the hit and and sprayed a lot of blood the whole way. A deer rib is wider than 7/8" and a beyond three to one serrated single bevel Hill had vey little impact. i still have the part with head, the arrow shattered on a small oak past the deer, I did not recover the feathered end, probably flew into a cedar shrub that was nearby.

From: kokosing
Date: 16-Mar-19




A tornadoes can drive a straw thru a telephone pole.

From: Kevin Lawler
Date: 17-Mar-19




My son is obsessed with a shaving sharp broadhead. He spends lots of time with a Lansky system to get them popping hairs. He just took a sharpened Cutthroat and shot it through a rib cage we found in the woods from this winter. It broke a rib on both side. It rolled some of the edge or dulled it a little on both blades. Some parts of it were still shaving sharp but other parts were not. Probably would have still killed the deer. I plan to use Magnus Stinger 150 grain 4 blade heads which should help with the problem OR possible add some micro serrations to the rear of any 2 blade head kinda like Barry Wensel does.

From: dean
Date: 17-Mar-19




On my Hill single bevel, I serrate into the beveled side with a file that has the rounded safety edges, single row of file teeth. This puts a l line of serration cuts leaning forward and preserves the sharp edge of the flat side of the blade. I have never had one of these block up with fat or hair, it usually is declared by those that have never used a head like this and sharpened the way I sharpen mine. In dozens of deer with these heads, what some people have declared might be, has simply never happened. I use regular Hills as well, I believe I get more blood on the ground quicker with the single bevels.

From: mgmicky
Date: 17-Mar-19




Dean would you mind sharing a photo or more detailed instructions on how to sharpen using your technique? This past season was the first time I used the Hills and I was very impressed but I wasn’t sure how to add the serrations...

From: Riverwolf
Date: 17-Mar-19




A live animal rib , and a dead sunbaked rib are two differing targets ...with variances in hardness-toughness-and slime .

From: Beendare
Date: 17-Mar-19




I've recovered a bunch of heads that had been dulled on hide and ribs.

BH design matters....the short heads that put a lot of blade against hide and chop their way in are the worst.

I've shot the old 210gr dangerous game head that Steelforce used to make- that was quality steel. I shot a water buff with those.

The VPA's are pretty good quality steel. The Magnus Buzzcuts are pretty darn good too...especially considering the price point under $30/3.

From: Texas King
Date: 17-Mar-19




I believe steel quality does make a big difference in edge retention, and like Beendare, I certainly have seen heads get dull during pass through.

I’m thrilled you’re son is “obsessed” with sharpness, much rather that than the alternative. I do not think just cause a broadhead gets all the way through, it is automatically a success. Superior sharpness ALL THE WAY THROUGH equates to maximum carnage. I hunted for years, probably decades, with “good enough “ heads, the ones you take out of your quiver, touch your thumb do, and put it back. My loss %s went way down!





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