Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


FastflightPlus vs. D-97

Messages posted to thread:
T-Hawk shooter 14-Mar-19
Andy Man 14-Mar-19
fdp 14-Mar-19
Shawn 14-Mar-19
CLAYBORN 14-Mar-19
neuse 15-Mar-19
monkeyball 15-Mar-19
George D. Stout 15-Mar-19
Linecutter 15-Mar-19
alphamale 15-Mar-19
fdp 15-Mar-19
SteveBNY 15-Mar-19
fdp 15-Mar-19
SteveBNY 15-Mar-19
Linecutter 16-Mar-19
i 16-Mar-19
Linecutter 16-Mar-19
fdp 16-Mar-19
Stealth2 16-Mar-19
From: T-Hawk shooter
Date: 14-Mar-19




Not chasing speed, but looking to learn a little. One of my main goals this year is to get into stringmaking. I am very comfortable with D-97, since it’s about the only string I have used since it came out. I just got a new bow, and it has a fastflightplus string on it. So I am wondering what the difference is between these two? Or maybe, should I expect to notice anything different going to fastflightplus?

From: Andy Man
Date: 14-Mar-19




no big difference

Fast flight thinner strand diameter will need more strands to make a sime size string

D-97 I find easier to make a string out of lot of custom bowers use D-97

From: fdp
Date: 14-Mar-19




It's VERY dependent on the way the string is made. I can make a B-55 string that will perform as well as some folks strings made out of low stretch material.

One of the most overlooked aspects of a string is the quality of th build. A poorly constructed string from any material, no matter how modern, is a poorly constructed string and will likely not perform as well as a properly constructed string made from a less popular/older material.

From: Shawn
Date: 14-Mar-19




I still think D97 and 8125 are the best string material out there. I get all my strings made from one or the other. Shawn

From: CLAYBORN
Date: 14-Mar-19




What constitutes a poorly made string. What constitutes a well made string? Would be a good discussion.

From: neuse
Date: 15-Mar-19




Following I am learning to make strings and I do not know a good build from a bad build.

So many string types available, not sure how to classify all of them.

Why so many?

From: monkeyball
Date: 15-Mar-19




This is off the BCY web:

Both DynaFLIGHT 97 and 8125 are made from the highest quality Dyneema® yarn. 97 with its larger diameter is about 23% stronger than 8125, so 18 strands of 8125 would give you similar strength to 16 of 97. Both materials have excellent durability.

Good Shooting->->->->Craig

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 15-Mar-19




CLAYBORN, you only need to shoot them for awhile. A poorly made string is likely to move within itself (Flemish twist) and not maintain it's intended length. A well made string will have a short break-in period and move very little.

A well made endless loop will have tight serving at the loops with no gaps and maintain it's length in very short order. It's actually pretty much common sense to know the difference.

From: Linecutter
Date: 15-Mar-19




I make D97 stings and Fastflight Plus strings. As Andy Man stated the D97 will have fewer strands to make the same diameter string as Fastflight plus because of the differences in diameter of the materials being used. As an Example of a Fastflight Plus string I use 18 strands and 0.024 serving to get it to fit a 11/32 traditional glue on nock, in the D97 I will use 12 strand and 0.021 serving to get the same fit, and on a 12 stand S4 sting I'll use 0.018 serving. You will also notice I used a smaller serving diameter on the S4 compared to, D97 compared to, Fastflight Plus to get the same fit. You may get a little more slippage in the string loops before the completely tighten up on a higher strand string because there are more strands to move allowing the string to elongate more. So you will have a few more rotations in your Flemish twist string with the higher strand count for the same brace height. Speed wise you MIGHT see 2-3fps difference between them, which is squat. DANNY

From: alphamale
Date: 15-Mar-19




im learning a lot keep the intll comin thanx guys

From: fdp
Date: 15-Mar-19




George hit on some of the aspects of a poorly made string. Others include a string that requires too many twists to get the brace height that the shooter needs. Uneven strands in the string, which is more common than you think. Poorly made loops that are too big for the string notches. Serving that is not put on tight and even. A string that slips for an inordinate amount of time. Strings don't stretch as much as folks think they do if they are well made. Strings that have not been pre stretched and tempered.

From: SteveBNY
Date: 15-Mar-19




Fdp covered many of the things a quality string has - even strand tension being one of the most important but takes a deliberate conscious effort to achieve in a flemish build. I would add a string that finishes round and not rope like - another step that takes time and attention.

From: fdp
Date: 15-Mar-19




The MOST difficult for me is even tension on the strands.

From: SteveBNY
Date: 15-Mar-19




I agree. Takes constant attention from the start.

From: Linecutter
Date: 16-Mar-19




fdp,

What are you defining as uneven strands? In a Flemish Twist string your strands are all cut to different lengths in the bundle so they taper down, where the tag ends are twisted into the main bundle after twisting up the portion for your loops to give a cleaner string appearance. If all the strands were cut the same length the tag ends would all end as a blob into the main bundle and there would be no tapering.

Also how can you have string loops to big for the string grooves on a bow limb? If that were the case the string would have way to many strands in it to begin with, for the arrow nock to even begin to fit. Because that string groove on that limb is a heck of a lot bigger than that arrow nock groove. Man talk about over build. Now I could see where the lay up for loops may be longer than needed. As an example, someone using a string made for a 62" Recurve on a 62" Longbow. Where the upper loop is made larger for a Recurve so it will slide over the wider Recurve limb when the bow is unstrung. I have seen that on longbows when someone "thought" they were buying a Longbow string, but ended up with a Recurve string. They didn't know/realize the difference when they bought it, till it was pointed out to them. Could have been also the string maker made an honest mistake when making it or bagging and marking it also. I have nevvvver made a mistake making a string for someone. YEAH RIGHT!!! The lower limb loops are made the same size for both Longbows and Recurves, or at least mine are. "I" would rather have the loops a little on the big side than to small. If the loops are made to small on the lower limb you may not get it over the limb tip (made that mistake once or twice making a string for my bows). On the upper limb it may not be able to slide down the limb far enough, to be able to put the string on in the first place when the string is new (done that to, before having a string stretcher), or when unstringing the bow once it is on. If that upper loop is made to small and trying to force it down the limb to unstring the bow, over time will weaken the strands in the loop causing an area of "possible" unexpected string breakage (that I have not had happen) due to abrasion on the edges of the limb. So better a "little" to big, than to small. DANNY

From: i
Date: 16-Mar-19




fdp wrote " A string that slips for an inordinate amount of time."

What happens during the string build to cause the above?

From: Linecutter
Date: 16-Mar-19




To answer your question: If the twists weren't done tight enough when the string was twisted together making the loops and twisting the tag ends into the main part of the the string. It happens to all of us especially when you are first learning to make strings not twisting them tight enough, it's a learning curve. The more you make the better you get at it. Trust me you have to make a few to feel comfortable doing it. I tell people to learn using B50 or B55 it is a lot cheaper than the High Performance stuff when learning. If you make a mistake tear it apart and start over or lay out new bundles and start over. Once you get the hang of it go to the High Performance stuff, To anyone reading this, if you want to learn do it and don't be afraid of failing doing it, that is how you will learn. I learn to do it by watching Byron Ferguson's first video :Become the Arrow" and making my own string board from his video. I had to make some adjustments in the string length pins to get it to what I use today. DON'T get wrapped up in making a "PERFECT" string, make the best you can and keep working at it. Because no matter how it turns out it will work as long as it is long enough :'). I don't make strings professionally, but I have made a few hundred over the years for people. I have never had any complaints other than I have had a few come up short and I made them a new one. They keep coming back wanting more when they need them. Personally "I" don't believe there is such a thing as a "PERFECT" string, that is a comment that was coined here. I do believe there are those, who are more consistent and better at it than others (as with anything), in what they do making stings. People saying someone makes a "PERFECT" bow string, is a way of just drumming up business, because who doesn't want something that is "perfect" so their bow supposedly shoots "better", and other strings, even though made out of the same material, are of lower status. A bow string is just that, A Bow String. The material it is made out of, makes more of a difference than anything else, but that is subjective when it comes to all of the High Performance Materials out there, and that is the shooters choice. I will step off of my Soap Box now. DANNY

From: fdp
Date: 16-Mar-19




Danny.....uneven strands are exactly that, and it mostly related to uneven tension on the strands as the string is built, Having little or nothing to do with the way that ends of the string material are trimmed, In other words the ends of the string are even and there is slack somewhere in the center of the bundle. What happens is that the loops are formed, the string is put on the bow, and the string slips unevenly due to uneven tension on the center of the strands. Same thing can happen with an endless string although it is less common.

Loops that are too big are jut that. I don't want a loop on a bowstring that has the spliced area of the string whether Flemish, endless, braided, or Stemmler style extending 1.5" below the string notches. I also don't want a loop so big that when I unstring th bow the string slips all the way down to the fadeout. Seen that before too. I don't want the lower loop to be so big that when I or someone else puts a cup style stringer on the lower limb there is a danger of pushing the loop off the limb.

As for loops being too small, I can say I've never had that problem but I size all of string loops around a dowle. I have one set for recurve loops and one set for longbow loops.

Who said anything about a PERFECTLY made string? Certainly not me. But the fact is that if you are going to spend the moneyon high performance string material, you should know how to do everything you can to make a high performance string to take advantege of the material. If you don't, you're kind of wasting your money.

From: Stealth2 Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 16-Mar-19




I use D-97, 14 strand with padded loops on all my hunting bows except the older Groves. Durable and quiet....





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