Looking for opinions. I am working an osage stave. Have a 26” draw, thinking about a 64-65” with stiff handle and cut in shelf, not center shot. Anyone have some dimensions they favor? Want to leave it w/o backing, what’s the best layout of handle and shelf IYO? And what style suits osage best? Thanks for any advise

ttt...hope you get some help; if I knew I'd tell you...

This is from TBB volume 1. Very safe design for a 28" draw. You can go a few inches shorter for your 26" desired draw length. Maybe a little overbuilt but should produce good results for your first bow.

Any opinions on cut in shelf? I see a lot of bickering on the PA site on the subject, definitely not trying to do that!

Any opinions on cut in shelf? I see a lot of bickering on the PA site on the subject, definitely not trying to do that!

Hopefully pearl drums see this as he is as good as it gets when making self bows.

For a good groove to groove length I would suggest draw length x 2 + 10". 26 x 2 + 10 = 62" ntn. Start with a 65" OAL stave. Cut in shelves are just fine, but do not let that rest area get under 1" wide.

I have a26" draw I like 67-68. Overbuilt I don't think so. A good smooth fast bow is not overbuilt in my opinion. Arvin

At 70, my opinion is not always humble, but I think a cut-in shelf on a self bow is like a hip boot on a ham sandwich.

I'm glad for that, Jim. Your opinions make me smile. Thank you for that.

Beardedone, I think you should make whatever handle style you'd like. I personally don't shape my handle till almost last. I like to use handle area to clamp in vice. I shape my fades but leave handle wide and square till I'm mostly done using vice. I agree that shelf is totally unnecessary but if it's what you want by all means make one. Heck a stiff handle is totally unnecessary but one of the cool things about making your own bow is making it how you want it.

I agree with Pearl on suggestions for length. I'd say the minimum for your first bow. Longer is more forgiving. It still is important to use all the limb and get it all bending. It doesn't matter how long it is if you've only got a couple inches that are actually bending. You need to spread the stresses over the whole limb. Your thickness and or width will tapper slightly from handle to tip.

Steve's diagram will taper width but you'll probably still have a slight taper to your thickness to. Most stress is right out of the handle and less stress as you go towards the tips. You don't have to worry to much about exactly matching the width of the diagram. The important thing is to get the bend right. The thickness is what has to be right and what you don't want to rush. It's also the point that you tend to get excited and just want to finish and shoot your bow. Try to perfect the tiller. That's where the real beauty of a selfbow is.

Bjrogg

Staves are just so variable in condition that is hard to give dimensions.

But generally I double my draw ad add 10-25%. I like around 64" nock to nock and around 1 3/8" wide. 1.25" at the handle pass seems to work for me. The width I like is 1 3/8". . I don't do cut-in shelves but do glue on leather as a rest. More on my site.

http://traditionalarchery101.com

Jawge

Jim you put that reflex in those pyramid bows and the length is not all that important. But a good stiff 10" handle and a proper shelf will make them rocket launchers. Lol Arvin

Arvin, I always make a stiff handle, but a shelf won't move the arrow any faster. ;-)

Jim a stiffer arrow goes faster and farther . A friend of mine taught me that. Yes clean flight is everything. But paradox can kill speed in any arrow ,flight or otherwise . No speed is not everything. It's not in my hunting bow for sure. But my hunting bow 47@26 shoots 57 spine arrows real good! Just saying. Arvin

It would be a different can of worms, but I don't even spine test my arrows anymore, except to flex the shafts in my hands and decide it it feels about right. And they all fly the same.

Thanks guys for responding. Pearl drums, I actually wound up at 65” t2t length. I got it laid out. Got a 1 1/2 wide and deep handle section about 4 1/2” long. 2” fades at 1 3/4 for the first third then tapering to 1 1/2 to second third then tapering to 5/8 nocks

Are you a lefty?

Bjrogg

Is that back of bow or belly.

Bjrogg

Back, it’s just upside down

Right handed. Idk how thin the limbs are gonna get to if I make it 1 3/4 at fades. Might wanna reduce that? I think I might be overthinking this a little, board bows I would do what feels right no hesitation but I don’t have any other seasoned osage lying around! Pearl Drums I love all the bows of yours I’ve seen on PA, if I had a style of selfbow, that’d be it

Ok. I knew it was upside down. I was thinking it was belly for some reason. I was thinking you had a ring chased already. I like to chase ring first so I know how much width I do have for sure. I dont worry to much about making to certain dimensions. Like George said staves tend to do all kinds of funky stuff. I use hand tools just because I like them. Not because I think everyone has to. I like the way they tend to follow grain and to me just something relaxing about them. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't worry to much about following layout exactly. Especially if you have knots. It's much better to follow grain around knot than dimensions through grain around knot. From what I can see it looks like a pretty clean stave. Good Luck. I hope I'm not confusing you.

Bjrogg

You don't want it any wider than 1 1/2 at the fades for now. By the time you smooth out the edges you will be near 1 3/8 wide, perfect for osage. Thank you for the compliment.

I like them wider at the fades as of late. They take less set from fade to mid limb for me. May be I can't tiller as good as you guys. Extra mass fade to mid limb does not affect the speed much but can help with shock. Arvin

Bjrogg that is the back, with a chased ring. I did follow the grain for my layouts, and laid out all my marks off center line which bends with the stave where it wants. That was just for rough outlining anyways. Pearl drums, why? Would the limbs get too thin at 1 3/4? I have seen a lof of other people say the same thing I’m just not sure on the meaning. Haven’t done any work on stave yet, busy week

Wood is 8x stronger in depth/thickness than width. Arvy a pyramid bow that is 2" at the fades has the same square inches of wood working as a limb with a 1.5" rectangular profile has. Could be why you like it lately.

Pearl my pyramid bows come in a bit heavy on the mass side. I understand what you are saying though. Most are about 1-1/4 -1-3/8 at mid limb. They also get thicker from fade toward mid limb and from end of bow toward the mid limb. Meaning the fades are thicker and the ends are thicker. Arvin

Pearl my pyramid bows come in a bit heavy on the mass side. I understand what you are saying though. Most are about 1-1/4 -1-3/8 at mid limb. They also get thicker from fade toward mid limb and from end of bow toward the mid limb. Meaning the fades are thicker and the ends are thicker. Arvin

Whoops

Got the bow roughed out, Pearl drums I took your advice and went to 1 1/2

Belly taking shape

Looking good. It appears you have most of muscling done. The rest easy on the elbows.

Looks like it's getting close to time to put on a string and putting it on the tree. Keep posting pictures. Take your time. I'm just looking on my phone but it seemed like your back had rasp or file marks across it. Do you by any chance have a scrapper? Scrapper really helps clean up the back. Takes off the early wood without damaging the ring your chasing. I like to use draw knife to get to early growth and see some of ring I'm chasing. Then use scrapper to clean up rest of early wood. Just go about 5"or 6" at a time and try to keep everything cleaned up as you go so you don't get lost. It's easy to get mixed up if you don't keep it all cleaned up. Maybe you have it good. I'm just looking on my phone.

Bjrogg

Trying to find a picture of ring chased. It should look very plain, no change in grain.

If you look further down the stave you can see the extra rings that need to be removed. I usually start at end I think is lowest or closest to ring I want. After I get a little ways I turn stave around and pull draw knife towards me.

Here is another picture of what Bjrogg was explaining about the difference in growth rings.

Thanks Steve that is a much better picture. Also beardedone the early wood has a different sound and feel. It's kinda crunchy. Like Pearl said before. A clean back is far more dependable than almost any backing.

Bjrogg

Back is actually perfect considering it was my first time. I used a draw knife to get to early growth and scraper to break through. No rasp or file, all scraper on finish work. I also heat bend the twist out, I will post more photos. Bow has about 2” of natural reflex even on both limbs

Bjrogg I am a cabinet maker for a living, so I got some finesse with hand tools :)

Here is a not so clear pic I took at work but the twist is out! might be hard to tell with pic? I will steam bend the handle into alignment as well if needed.

That's great beardedone. Like I said I'm just looking on my phone. I'm not trying to deter you. I'm really just hoping this turns out to be a good shooter for you. If you have a good back that really increases your odds. Take your time on the tillering. Look forward to seeing more pictures. Bjrogg

Looking good. Keep us posted.

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