How does this sound? I think instead of calling it "Traditional" archery.Why don't we start calling it instead "Regular" archery.Would that be a better description?

Oh,any other better names???

No. I don't like that.

It's archery.

That's all it ever was or ever will be for me.

Heck, I rarely even use the word 'archery' in real life. No need. Don't talk about it. Just do it.

How about 'archery'!!!!!!!! We were here first. Plain and simple in order to shoot 'archery' you have to shoot a bow. 'They' shoot compounds, let them come up with a name. I'd suggest 'fake archery' but then again I'm a red neck. LOL.

Bowmania

Agree with "Archery". That's all it's ever been to me, and it doesn't matter what bow you use. After awhile this jostling for titles, or a we against them thing gets pretty old. There's nothing special about the bow you shoot other than it's what you feel is right. I've got friends who shoot all sorts of weapons, and I even have a few compounds myself...which I would use anytime I thought I wanted to.

I think we would be further ahead to just fit-in in our traditional genre, and be an example another archer would want to emulate, rather then stoop to terms like "fake" or "training wheels", etc., which are simply derogatory and doesn't help anyone. If someone asks, I tell them I shoot a bow...mostly recurve or longbow. My camp is open to all ethical sportsmen.

I just shoot trad bows.

It was always archery until the compound and other bow types came on the scene and then someone decide to give names out.

real archery versus mechanical archery

Archers... To the line... Fire At will..

a few years ago I started a thread that got heated I'm surprised it didn't get axed. due to arthritis I was gonna give up trad bows altogether & go with a compound exclusively and I must say that (some) trad guys are extremely passionate & emotional on the subject!!! in reference to the wheel bow the word abomination was used by one emotional person. when I was involved with an archery club in frontroyal VA participating in field archery & 3d during summer & indoor shoots during the winter I (NEVER ONCE) came across a compound shooter that was biased against a trad bows or shooters. in fact they admired the amount of dedication it takes to shoot one well!!! unfortunately (some) trad bow shooters do not have the same admiration of their fellow archers it REALLY is sad almost like their the enemy or something. call it what you will I call it archery & shoot both & have for 37 years

I just like archery. As long as you enjoy it what does it matter what you call it.

I shoot,at the moment,a metal risered ILF recurve...I don't consider selfbow shooters "above" me,nor compound shooters "below" me. I enjoy all archery,but I do feel that it needs different titles,just so I know what someone is talking about

I'm going with Old School Archery. "LOL"

It's fine to define what you like...pretty much why this forum is a traditional archery forum. It's not okay think you're better than someone else because of what you use, and we see a lot of that nowadays to the point of derogatory comments regarding others. I think most who post here are predominantly traditional archery shooters, but it doesn't matter if they aren't as long as what is discussed on this forum is traditional archery related.

I like archery. I'm an archer. Doesn't matter which kind of bow I choose to shoot on any given day. I was born in a street named archer. Maybe that was the seed for me.

When I tell non-archery people I shoot real bows they all seem to get it.

and here we go again. ok SB I'll buy that but what are you going to call the folks use the tube shooters. tubers I thought that was the folks that floated down the river on black things

I like real bows and arrows.

Just archery is fine for us. For everything else let's call it Mechanical Archery.

Just archery is fine for us. For everything else let's call it Mechanical Archery.

Toxophilia ?

Let me start by saying that I have no interest in shooting a compound. I consider what we do as "archery" and what they do as "shooting a compound bow". But that's where the argument ends for me. It always amazes me how some people vehemently defend and are so self righteous regarding traditional archery and deride those that choose the more modern alternative to launching an arrow. And yet those same people have no issue choosing the modern alternative to communication, travel, gathering information, medicine, heating/lighting their homes, etc. Aren't there more "traditional" ways of doing all of those things? But they choose to rant and rave about people that shoot a compound? It's great to be passionate about something, just don't be a hypocrite!

KDdog, that era is over. Today people would think you talking about some kind of silicone treatment for their faces or butt.

I hear all the 'real bows' stuff and it is meaningless. To a guy who grew up in a compound era, archery is just that. I lived through the time when we though the traditional bows were done for, most here didn't so you don't know how close we came to losing that part. The compound bow got folks into archery, and many of them have turned to traditional equipment...without those people we wouldn't have the political clout we have today.

Many of our pioneers went to the compound bow and it didn't change who they were or what they represented. The hate for that side of archery is misplaced and particularly grade school mentality.

Carbon fiber limbs, foam cores, carbon reinforced risers, ILF fittings, B50, Spectra, Dyneema, aluminum shafts, carbon shafts, threaded alloy broadheads, polycarbonate/butyrate snap nocks, chronographs . . . is it really traditional?

I agree it's just archery. I like the name of the site - "Stickbow".

IMO George has expressed the way I feel. Sure, we may banter with wheel bow guys at the range but it’s just that banter, all in fun. Just never could see getting my jockey shorts in a twist over such things.

George well said & TRADER that statement sums up the the problem imo (I consider what WE do as archery and what THEY do as shooting a compound bow ) and that mentally is the problem my friend. IT IS NOT WE & THEM IT IS US. just shooting different weapons

Using the words "traditional archery", works well for me for finding vendors and blogs like the LW on the internet. Also like traditional when it describes a 3-D event. Just don't use the word "traditional" very much otherwise.

Compounds are real bows, they are drawn by hand.

OH that's right..

It does sound like some kind of pleasant lotion for your face or your butt. I'd probably use it if I could some at Walmart . I guess I just liked what its definition is. A lover of archery, period. Compounds are ok I guess, but I prefer a bow without any wheels. Not trying to ruffle any feathers.

Not everyone can or should shoting a grad bow. There is room for all of us.,

There's archery,and then there are MTLD'S. Mechanical tubing launching devices!

This thread got me thinking about what people with no dog in this fight have to say about the topic, so I went to the dictionary. This is NOT meant to stir the pot, diminish anyone else's opinion, or try to win an argument. I simply went to the books for a completely analytical approach. Starting with the OP's thread title Regular ARCHERY...

Dictionary.com: archery - the art, practice, or skill of an ARCHER.

Dictionary.com: archer - a person who shoots with a BOW and arrow; bowman.

Dictionary.com: bow - a flexible strip of wood or other material, bent by a string stretched between its ends, for shooting arrows English Oxford: bow - A weapon for shooting arrows, typically made of a curved piece of wood joined at both ends by a taut string. Merriam-Webster: bow - a weapon that is used to propel an arrow and that is made of a strip of flexible material (such as wood) with a cord connecting the two ends and holding the strip bent The Free Dictionary: bow - A weapon consisting of a curved, flexible strip of material, especially wood, strung taut from end to end and used to launch arrows. Collins: bow - A bow is a weapon for shooting arrows which consists of a long piece of curved wood with a string attached to both its ends.

From my personal interpretation of those definitions, we are archers that shoot bows. Firearms, slingshots, crossbows, compounds, etc. simply don't fit the definition of archery, archer or bow. Food for thought. I await your opinions.

When I started , we were archers. Then the compound came along and some of the guys started shooting them. We still shot and hunted together just as we always had. Nobody really give a rats butt what their huntin buddy shot.

As far as the haters, George described it as a grade school mentality. I consider it more like kicking the slats in their cribs.

Some folks need to re-think what archery is. I started with a bow when I was in the service.My wife gave me 6 fiberglass arrows and a wing slim line bow for my birthday. That was in 1971.Archery has changed much since then.I dont remember but at the time I don't think there were any 3 d tournaments. Then came the compound bow and it changed the face of archery.Most people could practice for a few days and were ready to hunt. I didnt own a compound bow till 1992. It was awesome and very efficent. Had it for a while but went back to recurve because of the simplicty of the bow and the pleasure of just carrying it in the woods. But that is what I like.Killing things is not a priority for me.Now a days there are all kinds of archery and shooting classes :indoor, 3D, field, olympic style, Japaneese, horseback, primitive and what ever you enjoy. It is all archery,the string propels an arrow at a target.It is fun and relaxing enjoy what you like and don't knock the style others like to shoot. We need to band together and support all kinds of archery. There are people in this world that would like to take our weapons away from us.Not just our guns but our bows also.My 2 cents.

I just call it Archery because I'm doing Field, Indoors, 3D and Target with various modern and traditional bows

If I've read 1 of these types of threads, I've read hundreds of them. They all end up the same. And there will be more of them in the years to come.

At my old age, I just shoot my stickbows and don't worry about what it's called or what anyone else shoots. If the weapon of choice is legal then that's all that matters.

Why some folks think that everyone else has to be like them is rediculas. Just let it go and shoot what makes you happy and let others shoot what makes them happy.

DANG IT Roy, I wish I'd have saved some of your posts from 15-20 years ago :^)

Trader, I concur with the consensus of those definitions of archer, bow, and archery that you posted. It's simple, plain, and makes perfect sense. If what someone is, does, or uses doesn't fit the terminology without contortions or thinly veiled justifications, and finds a need to be defined or labeled for some reason, THEY should come up with their own, or appropriate adjectives. Based on those formal definitions, I don't have a need to.

DANG IT Roy, I wish I'd have saved some of your posts from 15-20 years ago :^)

Jeff, I don't have a clue of what you are talking about!

LOL

I don't like "Traditional" archery, I kinda cringe whenever I type it. It is too bad that we have to differentiate, but in many instances I feel like I should. Oddly enough, especially in conversations about QDM.

And I know this is an "Old Man Shaking His Fist At The Clouds Thing".....but I absolutely detest the abbreviated term "Trad". But that's just me.

For me it's archery. If I have to be any more specific I say I shoot a stickbow and leave it at that. Compounds have been around now for almost half a century so they also have a "tradition" of their own.

"I'm an ARCHER. I shoot a stickbow. I shot and still own compound bows, but I never shoot them anymore."

When I think somebody might be interested I mention wooden bows and wooden arrows. But the truth is I shoot glass bows and carbon.

I agree with George.

We've had a blizzard here in Albuquerque. Beautiful morning.

Started with a recurve before compounds were invented. Shot a number of years that way.

Switched to compounds and shot them through their hay day when they went from many wheels to two wheels and from wheels to cams.

Switched back to recurves and have been shooting them ever since.

Never considered the cross bow and was adament against its use in archery season.

I am just glad to have been around long enough to have experienced the evolution, make my judgements on what I wanted from the sport, and still continue with it.

My handle describes what I do.

To me if a non pertisapating person was reading the definitions of the bow they would not differentiate between the compound and simple stick and string. There both a stick with a string attached at both ends.

I call it "Tom's archery " and let others who see me doing it call it what they like. :)

Me too Roger

Roger, I know what you mean. Although I do not like to use the term trad or traditional, lately I have been using it to hopefully make my point to our MI dnr& nrc about the mandatory antler point restrictions.

As far as I'm concerned I'll call it what I like and you can call it whatever you like. With this politically correct society Im tired of it. If you don't like what I call things then that's your problem.

When someone wants to know what I shoot for a bow I say Traditional, recurves and long bows.

X2 with The Whittler. The politically correctness stuff gets real old.

These days I just say I do archery and then I explain to people that I make bows from trees. Jawge

I just smile and say that's nice.

From Merriam-Webster dictionary:

nonsense noun non·?sense | \ ?nän-?sen(t)s , ?nän(t)-s?n(t)s\ Definition of nonsense (Entry 1 of 2) Words or language having no meaning or conveying no intelligible ideas: language, conduct, or an idea that is absurd or contrary to good sense; an instance of absurd action; affected or impudent conduct.

And there you have it, a new term for those modern traditional archers who don't believe in traditional archery...the Nonsensical Archer.

The year is 2019. Everyone needs their own special label.

Most of the traditional archers on this forum weren't there when the compound came out around 1970. I was shooting recurves back then for hunting and competitive shooting.

Most bow shooters in those days embraced the wheel bow because the let off made them be able to hold longer and aim making them a better shot

Not everyone though went to the compound, but stayed with there recurves and longbows....I was one of those.

The people that didn't shoot compounds had to be seperated by name to differentiate them, so the term "Traditional Archers" was born. I don't understand why some don't like the term, it's a perfect fit ..."traditional"..."existing in or as a part of a tradition long established"

I have not yet heard a better descriptive name or term that lets the general public know the difference in the two groups of todays archers

call it whatever you wish. as long as the end result is this. trad-compound-muzzleloader-rifle whatever

Thanks for sharing that Ron. Thinking back to the 1970s compound craze you could hardly give away a stickbow. The few that stayed with their recurves were called traditional. You asked why some do not like the term. That’s a good question. I have not liked saying traditional archer, but after reading your post, it makes perfect sense. “Existing in or as a part of a tradition long established “. From here on I will be a traditional archer.

I once used a rifle.

I am with Ron L. on his description. My 50th year of non compound bow and arrow hunting,..... I understand thought process.

It was just archery and archer until alternative weapons came on the scene and someone decided to hand out names.

The only time I get butt hurt over monikers is when a guy toting a crossbow refers to themself as a bowhunter. I correct them every time .

this thread reminds me of an old friend that cancer got. Tom Barbie was his name he lived in front Royal VA & was very involved with 2 rivers archery in the same town. he'd go to Colorado bow hunting public land every year.did a do it yourself goat hunt in Alaska. shot & hunted with trad bows compounds both bare bow & bowhunter took great pride in hunting with his grandfather's 3030 lever gun. and wasn't above watching a frosty ridge top with his old model 70 270. he loved it all & was one of the best woodsman I've ever had the privilege of calling a friend. and I hate to say it but quite a few of the posts on this thread & the others like it would absolutely disgust him he was a good man that would probably just consider himself a bowhunter or even just a hunter

Compounds have been around close to 50 years, it's time to let them do their thing as we do ours.

My club has a strictly sticks part and a compound part, plus trap, pistol, etc sections.

They do their thing and we do ours.

But our stickbow shoots draw a much larger crowd.

Would have to think of a new name for our Michigan Traditional Bow Hunters archery club.

Why do people actually care what bow and arrow hunting is called? Bow and arrow hunting is more about the equipment you use, and your attitude. All the rest is simply an evolving definition... which means different things to different people. What you actually hunt with,(not what bow is hanging in your garage) and your attitude, defines you as a hunter and that is all that should matter. To heck with what everyone else thinks, they do things their way.

Compton Archery includes some likley bow and arrow hunters. Check them out, they leave little to doubt.

Okiebones, I’m with you on that.

This thread and the hundreds of others like it underline a key irony in archery. Every single day of our lives we live by established rules and codes of conduct considered normal by logic or law, and by most measures that approach is necessary for all the different parts to fit, function and survive together. These rules and ways of doing things rely on specific words, terms, definitions, behavior, actions, tools, and understandings that bring clarity and order to the life's complexities. And yet when it comes to archery this basic organized approach is for whatever reason thrown out the window as if all archery concepts and differences are alien sacred cows, without credibility or objectivity in how we see and practice them. All that seems to matter is personal and often nonsensical, biased, or selfish wants and perspectives. We're all guilty, but it doesn't make it the right or sensible thing to do.

Why not stop acting like selfish children bickering over candy and apply common sense for a change? Why vilify some areas of archery (compounds, crossbows) and pillage/ignore/despise other areas (like traditional) simply because they conflict with our own selfish motives? Why not apply reason and agree to recognize all aspects of archery without prejudice, by recognizing that there indeed ARE different kinds of archery, that they are NOT all the same, and by compromising on and DEFINING what the differences are? Creating objective definitions and separating the various facets of archery into sensible components doesn't destroy our ability to make choices. It simply makes it easier to discuss archery in an apples-to-apples format without fighting over it. Good fences make good neighbors.

It starts with putting the bickering aside and crafting a set of common-sense 'working parameters' for things like traditional archery, something that archery organizations should have done a long time ago. The health and survival of archery depends on the same approach as survival in life...we either compromise and agree to accept common-sense rules/codes of conduct that meet the needs of all, or we stay wrapped in our own personal blankets of selfishness and damage not only our credibility but the future growth of archery in general.

So, what kind of archer do YOU want to be?

I want to be an archer who realizes there is not infinate game to take advantage of. Whitetail deer do pretty well, many of the other species are sustained through strict limitations, generally quotas or drawings. Making killing easier necessitates even more limits on tag availability, which of course is appropriate.

Shooting arrows at one target or another to me is archery. After that I choose to simply identify the type of equipment I use to launch those arrows. Equipment preferences are just that--preferences. Whatever those preferences are does not establish some level of eliteness, skill or quality of equipment. I believe that there are times when identifying your equipment preferences are necessary so if someone needs to know most of the time I shoot a longbow, occasionally an Olympic style recurve. Never cared for either a compound or a crossbow but that is just my preference. If you have to have some term to use to categorize my preferences I kind of like the term "old school" that someone posted above.

Long winter! Why does anybody have the need to be defined by what bow they shoot to enjoy archery? It's all archery, no matter what your choice in equipment is. Not comfortable about that? Grow a pair. Hope spring comes sooner rather than later!!

20 years ago I was active in 2 rivers archery in front Royal Va I was not a member but attended most shoots & of coarse you had all the different divisions but there was absolutely no trad guys & compound guys it was just a bunch of folks that enjoyed shooting & hunting with bows having a good doing something they enjoy and quiet possibly it's still like that I don't know I moved away. but I can tell you this for sure if any one individual would have claimed that there choice of archery equipment was above any one else well they would've been run out of town

I recall many years ago at a Pope & Young banquet in Michigan, Glenn St Charles who was the founder of the P&Y ask me if I had time he'd like to sit down and discuss something with me. I said I was free right now.

We went out into the lobby, found a comfortable couch and sat down. I had no idea what he wanted to talk about but Glenn was a straight forward man and soon told me what was on his mind. He told me when he had formed the P&Y for record keeping of big game animals with a bow it was before the compound. We both agreed that the compound bow had done a lot to popularize archery and bow hunting but even so Glenn thought a seperate record keeping organazation for traditional bows would be good to have.

At the time Glenn was getting up in years but he still had an interest in the future of bowhunting, especially traditional bowhunting. I had a great deal of respect for his opinion, he was a bowhunting visionary.

Not long after that conversation the Compton Traditional Bowhunting organazation was formed along with the "Compton Archives" for traditional bowhunting record keeping.

People can have their own opinion about compound or traditional but until they have done for bowhunting what Glenn St Charles has done for bowhunting, it's only an opinion.

https://www.comptontraditionalbowhunters.com/archives

Glenn was a good friend since the early 1950's and I was part of the team, along with Glenn and Ed Meyers that got archery seasons expanded in Washington State. Nice that Compton's has that if you are a member, but Glenn, nor anybody else, has the right to compartmentalize archery or dismiss any form of the sport. That would be like me deciding that if you are not a FLIGHT ARCHER you are somehow diminished. Why not just enjoy Archery, and if asked what kind of bow you use, just tell the person who asked a recurve, longbow, or whatever? I've been in the Archery business, 52 years, and have shot a bow for 66 years of my adult life. I am an Archer and also have other sports i enjoy, like rodeo. Sports are a hobby, not my life.

Larry, I've been in the archery business for 42 years, had been shooting traditional bows for 77 years, bow hunted for big game for 64 years and never owned a compound and only shot one arrow from one.

You say that Glenn or nobody has the right to compartmentalize archery, sorry Larry but it already is. We have Traditional archery magazines, and traditional archery forums. Nobody is "dismissing" compounds bows only separating them by definition. If you ever shot NFAA Field Archery everyone was separated by classes according to score from 75 to 400 class.

Glenn was a friend of mine also and I was involved in the forming of Comptons. Glenn died in 2010 at the age of 98 if he was alive today I'm sure you and he would have a very good discussion and I have no doubt who would come out on top.

From your response I'd "guess" that you are a multi bow shooter...and there's nothing wrong with that. The Compton organization and the Compton Archives record book was Glenn's idea to keep traditional separate from modern archery. Lie I said and I'm sure if he was a friend of yours, he was a visionary

Like I said and I'm sure you'd agree if he was a friend of yours, he was a visionary

I designed all of the first compound bows Martin Archery sold after they bought Howatts, and they sent me the #1 of every model. I gave them all away. The only time I ever shot a compound was at the World Flights. 6 arrows. But, I shoot modern Asian, American Longbows, recurves, and some experimental hybrid stuff made for flight. Like I said, I am an Archer. I have no limitations that I have imposed on myself, and wouldn't take kindly to someone trying to impose any on me, laws and norms of society mostly excepted. Yes, Glenn cared about things and acted in the best manner he could to carry on some of the things he enjoyed about archery. No argument there. One of a kind man. You have a great day! I just dug us out from 8" of new snow, and now have to load hay for 100+ cows for morning. At 84, I am just glad to be able to keep up my ranch work!

Howdy Larry.

I'd like to thank you for designing the Martin Pantera compound.

I fell in love with it the first time I seen a picture of it and bought one in 1993 or 1994 I think was the year.

I don't shoot compounds anymore, but have nothing against them.

So I decided to have it converted into a warf bow and it shoots great.

Crap, sorry about the big picture.

I'll have Phil remove that post.

Yes. I built all of them at Howatts for Glenn. He was a businessman after all. No problems for me what anyone wants to call archery. Even when I was in the business, I left all the hype etc. at the plant. Never took any of it home.

"At 84, I am just glad to be able to keep up my ranch work!"

I hear you Larry, the sand is gettin low in my hourglass, I'll be 83 in less than a month. We're both gettin close to the bottom of the other side of the hill. I'm thankfull after a total shoulder replacement last June that I can still shoot and hunt with my recurves and longbows.

I've been on some hunting trips out west with some buddys that used compounds. We got along just fine and respected each others choice in equiptment. They called me the "traditional" bowhunter in the group.

Is this really something over which folks get worked up?

I should shut my mouth but it's one of my many faults. I understand when it comes to different classes in competition & I'm not a trophy hunter but I guess I understand a different book for that but past that I just don't understand the separation. I use both trad & compound depending on the hunting situation. I have several different shotguns for depending on the situation & the same for rifles. but for some reason for many it's the trad bow or nothing (I'm a real hunter that shoots a real bow) and that mentally will stand the hair up on the back of my neck every time.

One can be a shotgunner, rifleman, primitive archer, traditional archer, compound archer, crossbow hunter, spincaster, fly fisherman etc etc. Lots of categories, each with their own following and merits.

Nothing makes my hair stand up, why on earth would it? The labels are not important, they are simple descriptions.

Well said Missouribreaks. To each his own and the labels aren't important, just enjoy what activity and equipment you choose. Simply by date of birth I'm labeled as a "baby boomer" and I don't get uptight about that. By choice, I only shoot laminated stick bows and wood arrows, but I just consider "traditional" as a simple description under the overall umbrella of archery. If I would choose to use other equipment, I could be labeled as "primitive" or "modern" and I would be fine with that. However, I struggle linking crossbows to archery...especially for hunting archery only seasons.

"Regular archery" sounds like what guys are doing currently. I'm happy with "Traditional Archery" To me, it means longbows and recurves.

Larry,

"Sports are a hobby, not my life."

Extremely well said.

Call it whatever you want. I've called it everything from flinging arrows, to shooting my bow, to chasing sticks. Whatever seems appropriate at the time..

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