From: Bowmania
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Date: 18-Feb-19 |
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Head Position
If you don't like this regimented/form orientated shooting, you don't need to comment. DON'T DO IT BECAUSE I DO IT, DO IT BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE TO YOU. All these form threads are no substitute for a coach. No matter how good any written word is, it can't point and say, “move this here”.
Remember me mentioning how things are interconnected? We're building a foundation. This will clarify why.
Head position may sound simple. It's not. Probably isn't because it's over looked. How many of you think of head position when shooting? Let's think of it now. Think of all the different positions the head can be twisted/tilted/cocked/back/forward.
Once the grip and hook are set the head should be twisted to the the target and set. Never to move until the arrow is in the target. This is done in the 'set position' (a 45 down with the bow hand – it and set up' will be addressed later). So the head must maintain it's position through the movement of 'set', 'set up', 'draw', 'alignment', and 'back tension'. The main culprits are set up and draw. This brings to the forefront of the importance of body parts being able to move independently.
To start the head should turn to the target so that the chin is just above the bow shoulder. For a right handed archer this means the left edge of the chin to the right edge of the bow shoulder.
(Let me interject, for me and I've been at the 30 degrees to the target for years, it's a lot easier to get my head turned in the **stance** thread then to get it turned at the 90 degree stance. As I said things are interconnected)
Back. The eyes should be level. A slight tilt to the drawing arm is acceptable. (reasons are complicated and if your interested PM me). The chin should be slightly up not tucked down. Coach Lee suggests it's like a king surveying his realm. Think of a string pulling the head upward, which would elongate the neck.
Now to clarify things. Back to the foundation we built starting with stance. A line should be able to be drawn from the 'V' in the string at full draw down (where that string comes off the ring finger) to the ground without touching the chest or hips. Now it you think about the **body position** thread, head position and stance makes more sense.
I see a lot of archers tuck they're chin at anchor. They're looking at what they want to hit at an angle, instead of from the center of the eye 90 degrees to the target. When you're peering at something in the distance you don't tilt your head to see it better.
You can't settle your head into anchor – that's no anchor. If you move your head, your lazy shoulders will eventually not get to alignment. It's one of the reasons for collapse. Draw to your stationary head.
I'm betting a non-stationary head can lead to an inch to an inch and a half difference in draw length. That can lead to a bad shot at 15-20. For an Oly guy trying to hit a spot at 70 meters it's critical. Equating to us at 40 yards?
To reference past subjects search by clicking on key word:
**Stance**
**Grip**
**Hook**
**Body Posture**
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From: fdp
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Date: 18-Feb-19 |
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"If you move your head, your lazy shoulders will eventually not get to alignment. It's one of the reasons for collapse"
I see that all the time, and it's a tough habit to break.
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From: badgerman
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Date: 18-Feb-19 |
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Todd, it's all coming together like the parts to a puzzle. If I'd have know this 60 years ago I'd probably be appearing at county fairs shooting aspirins out of the air. Well almost. Very helpful, even for veterans who have been shooting for years.
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From: deerhunt51
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Date: 18-Feb-19 |
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I do, if hitting low, I raise my head slightly. Your eye is your rear site so lower head lower shot.
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From: RC
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Date: 18-Feb-19 |
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Todd, ya need to post pictures along with the info. Would be helpful. Thanks..
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From: bugslinger
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Date: 18-Feb-19 |
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Great info!! Thanks
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From: longbowguy
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Date: 18-Feb-19 |
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Too long, to0 loud and too opinionated for me to read. Mania could be right. - lbg
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From: Bowmania
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Date: 19-Feb-19 |
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Longbowguy, you should have just read the opening paragraph.
Just to comment on that comment. The guys that shoot his kind of 'stiff' form realize that when it comes to getting a shot off in 2 or 3 seconds it can be done and just as fast as the 'unstiff' form. Yet they'll be able to shoot something at a longer distance, because of the stiff form.
I've killed 22 animals on the run including a moose, elk, and a 152 inch buck.
Roy, I concur that pictures would be a good idea, but it takes a lot of time to write these up every week. Pictures would take another person. My pay for this is really not enought to involve another person.
Bowmania
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 19-Feb-19 |
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Todd's information is valid. Just because a person takes it upon themselves to be good all around archers, doesn't mean it's not doable by anyone....and could help many folks. When you work on form, it translates to the brain and body just like stump shooting, or shooting Asbell Style...and adds consistency. Good form is good form, and when replicated in practice, will transfer to the field for hunting. Some of the best bowhunters were field and target archers...maybe most of them back in the day. You don't care about it? Then don't read it.
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From: StikBow
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Date: 19-Feb-19 |
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I understand running from a moose or elk, but not a deer! GRIN. All you have offered is valuable for those with an open mind and a desire to improve aspects of shooting. Every big building has a solid foundation if it mean to last, and the human foundation is key to consistency=accuracy. I like what you have said so far and measured myself against it-look forward to more. And thanks
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From: Phil
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Date: 19-Feb-19 |
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quote "... Think of all the different positions the head can be twisted/tilted/cocked/back/forward." ..... It's 3 ... you can only move the head in 3 ways
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From: badgerman
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Date: 19-Feb-19 |
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Todd, if it's your job to lecture 10 people standing on a high bridge about the joy and virtues of life, and what you can do to promote yourself and be successful, and why taking your life would not only destroy yourself but also very devastating for your family, friends and loved ones. After the lecture 9 would come up to you and express their appreciation. One would jump. It's always been and always will be. What you are doing is great and from the overall comments very appreciated and useful for assisting in developing a shot sequence. Joel
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From: RC
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Date: 19-Feb-19 |
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Todd thanks for the info..
^5
Roy
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 19-Feb-19 |
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The head and neck tend to act in unison, and fact is there are myriad angles they can take, especially when gander-necking around to see what everyone else is doing. Left, right, up, down tilted left, tilted right and even angles of tilt can differ.
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From: Ovilla Bill
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Date: 19-Feb-19 |
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Great info Todd. Not easy to break old habits, but gives those with an open mind and a desire to improve something to think about and work on. "longbowguy" obviously didn't read paragraph #1. Shame on him.
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From: Glynn
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Date: 19-Feb-19 |
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OMG, I never thought of it like that. Todd we are definitely going to need pictures when you demonstrate the running shot. Many times I have wanted to try running just a bit closer to get off a shot in my comfort zone. If I can learn to shoot while running it is going to really expand my opportunities.
OK, serious now, I really appreciate you taking the time to write this stuff out. Some of us love to think about and practice stuff that will help our way of shooting. Having others with good suggestions and insight, and who are willing to share is great.
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From: B arthur
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Date: 19-Feb-19 |
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Thsnks for posting this. I eat it up.
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From: Horseman
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Date: 19-Feb-19 |
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Great info, thanks for taking the time to share. I just added your other threads to my favorite list to refer back.
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From: Bowmania
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Date: 20-Feb-19 |
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Looks like the running deer needs some comment. I used to be involved with two groups of hunters that just drove deer. One group in WI, was just a late season hunt usually snow on the ground.
The other was in an area that the guys I knew drove the land with their fathers. Probably did the same drives for 30 years. This was when all you had to do is ask for permission. We never sat in trees, just drove all day. It's all gone now even for the guys that live there.
The most fun hunts I'd ever been on. One of the last times we did those hunts, my buddy was setting the standers. He took the bottom limb of his bow and put an 'X' in the snow. He said, 'Todd, the deer are going to cross here. You sit anywhere you want." He did that twice that week and each time there were deer tracks in the 'X'.
To the shot. Most of the shots were close 10-15 and more often then you'd think 5 but somethins 20 yards. Misses were pretty rare. WE practices the shot. On of the reasons I think a bow is a more effective weapon than a compound.
For practice, we used bows and a fishing rod. A bigger spinning rod with 15-20 pound test. The end of the line had a gallon milk jug filled with about an inch of sand for weight. A line of guys was set and the fishing rod guy was 15 or so yards parallel and cast the jug out. We could only have 3 guys or 4 shoot at a time or we had broken arrows in the jug. That group did it all the time and rarely missed. Really great fun.
If supplied with enough beer I can tell stories about those hunts for hours. Farms slowly changed hands, split amoung kids, and in one case paint ball business was set up on one of the best drives. Was a huge oxbow on a river with an opening of about 35 yards maybe less. The opening was to the east and the drivers just had to get west and let their scent drift towards the opening. Still there but all gone to us.
Bowmania
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From: badgerman
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Date: 20-Feb-19 |
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Todd I also shot many running deer, also in Wisconsin. Years ago driving and shooting at deer was very common altho no more. Our practice was putting cardboard in an old tire and rolling it down a hill---would bounce like a deer. Didn;t mean to hi-jack a great thread but needed to add this. Thanks again Todd for your very helpful threads.
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From: Bowmania
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Date: 21-Feb-19 |
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Well, they teach you in hunter safety not to shoot at running deer, but guess what, most are shooting compounds. A deer won't fit in a peep. LOL.
My whole point in bring up the running deer is that there's been a lot of negative comments that the form I'm suggesting takes too long. Once the subconscious graps the form, the shot only takes as long as the draw. But if guys are satisfied with 17.3, who am I to say do it my way - hence the first paragraph in all these threads.
Joel, we did the tire thing, but it was pretty flat where we hunted. Plus the fishing rod is a lot easier than walking a tire up a hill.
Bowmania
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