I was asked to shoot a 5 arrow group...here tis' first effort, although I was warmed up. Skip the first 30 seconds unless you need to count my footsteps, lol. I'm honest about these.
I'm using my latest nontechnical release design, one I field tested a few weeks ago and got a nice mule deer with.
"nontechnical" should read "nonmechanical"...spell checker again...
Arrows are 600grs. except one was 620 grs...actual hunting arrows albeit with field tips. Bow is 55lbs. and much heavier draw than would be my choice for ultimate accuracy.
Anyway, I want to share this...accuracy is not about talent, but about doing a relatively small number of things well. I have a lot more to say about this but not in posts. Good shooting to all.
(The ability to do) "...a relatively small number of things well."
Speaking as semi-retired professional musician (as well as depressingly mediocre amateur archer) the ability to do any number- small, relatively small, or more- "things well", simultaneously; is exactly what defines talent! I can't tell you the number of music students I have had, where we deal with one issue and all the others go to hell.
Or my own archery, I get one- even two things right, and then some other lapse in technique or concentration, or slightly off visual angle, and there goes the whole ballgame.
I think you are very talented. And so is Old Buck.
Olympic coach Kirillov shot that video with his iPad for analysis. I have many release variants and used the standard back tension type of release for Kirillov that day. It is NOT the same release variant I use for bowhunting, but I wanted to show I can use the standard back tension Olympic style method.
Let me emphasize again this is NOT about my talent or talent in general. It's ridiculous. It's about following the laws of accuracy, which in itself requires minimal talent.
Dan, thanks, but a 12 yr. old kid can have perfect archery form. Making the right equipment choices help such as having enough bow mass to be super steady. Yet, most trad. archers and bowhunters go entirely in the other direction and choose very light or relatively light mass bows. Getting off instinctive shooting is also a simple choice...the specific choices are not apparent to many however. And many people don't want to change. The challenge as a bowhunter is to stay in relative compliance with the laws of accuracy with a bow and style that works for bowhunting and that you are happy with.
Dan, I do believe in musical talent but I also believe in musical dedication. I write this as I sit at my computer with a flamenco guitar across my knee. I spend hours almost every day doing rasquados, picados, arpeggios, etc Finally, I can play a little after 20 yrs. of dedication.
Accuracy of method is a big one. Good luck for amateurs, however in developing this level... perhaps the important talent is resolve and never ever quitting. But not quitting is not enough...the very best at almost anything, don't dabble...they are living their life choice full out with extreme dedication.
One must have resolve for any type of achievement, but a roadmap sure helps. There are legitimate shortcuts. Interesting whether knowledge and dedication trumps talent. Arguably, talent is not a fixed entity but can be developed through training and practice. I think guitar practice and music have helped my archery somewhat as it has increased my lateral thinking as well as being more aware of the importance of small nuances of technique.
For now I recommend the fixed crawl. There is lots of free information online such as Jimmy Blackmon's YouTube videos, but if I was serious, I would order the courses here (I have no connection to any of these): https://thepusharchery.teachable.com
Anyway, many may prefer these methods...great film here:
Sorry to be the stick in the mud but whenever I see a shooter use 3 under and the arrow as a sight pin I find their success very ho-hum. With that method, accuracy should be excellent.
Desperado, I agree in a sense...accuracy should be excellent. Think about what that statement really means. Most of us should have good if not excellent accuracy. There are a few reasons why most of us, esp. bowhunters do not. Such as, many insist on trying to shoot instinctively, many do not have good form, many cannot hold steady, many do not have good releases and many do have stable bows with enough mass for the type of accuracy top tournament archers achieve. Each of these can be solved rather easily in a matter of weeks and even sooner.
The top Trad barebow champions show how this can be done at least with tournament bows. I don't believe for a minute an extreme amount of talent is required to shoot good groups. It would be very helpful to many who aspire to better accuracy, to set aside their hunting bows for a month or two and use a low wt. high mass tournament bow with a bow sight and get instruction from a good tournament coach.
Once they achieve the type of groups at say 20 yds. they would like to have with their regular trad bows, then I believe for the first time them may understand what the requirements really are. It's unlikely they will believe they can do going back to their old way and just working harder. It should be apparent to them to somehow emulate what they are doing with a tournament. Of course, the problem is how to specifically do this and not have a bunch of junk on your bow so that it has become uglified.
But many are already happy and I understand that. Many love instinctive shooting and love low mass bows, etc. It's a big tent and all are welcome.
monkeyball, ok to show it's not an xbox or whatever shooting the groups, I did another group just for you. The first arrow dead centered the white mark, so I went back and started over. I'm shooting just 4 arrows now because I only have 4 matching field points (300 grs.) at this time. You can tell this is a short hunting bow and not a target bow, because you can hardly see the limbs and secondly by the sound of the 600 gr. arrows hitting.
Ya' it does not show my form, but this should convince you the groups are not fake. One other thing, I was counting as I ran to the target and perhaps suspiciously went from 10 to 15 but that was because I realized my long strides weren't matching yardage. It was exactly 20 yds. as determined by rangefinder.
I also embarrassingly had the arrow fall off my arrow rest, first time that's happened in awhile, but I kept shooting...
This is me shooting 50# Saluki Turk think it was out to 30-35y (split finger) no special technique req, just well tuned setup and solid Form, short bows can be fun.
Ok thx. Craig...you know the history, everybody (almost) was convinced I was a total fakir and similar the method was zip. The truth is the method is so big, there are over 100 release variations, depending upon how you categorize things. I shot this group with a new release variation I just invented a few weeks ago. IMO, it works a little better than a pure back tension release.
Yeah Andy, I know it looked goofy, but I didn't want to show my release, that's why I had the camera low. The point was to show it's not faked.
I was quite lucky got to shoot 3-4 hours a day teaching and doing trick shooting demos.
I shoot longer more stable setups for tourney just because small mistakes will be highlighted with short bows and it's not worth the risk in tourney but if you do the Form work they can be very accurate.
I did a lot of Aerial shooting with this bow, it was perfect for that task.
What is the purpose of these videos? I must have missed something. Put the camera up at shoulder height so we can see what your doing if your doing something special to demonstrate a certain form. I can shoot groups like that so what?
A common thread topic is someone posting a nice group. In the vast majority of such threads, they NEVER show a video, much less a video that shows their form. True?
However, the criticism here is invalid since there not only is a video of the arrows going into the target so we know it wasn't entirely faked, there is a video of me shooting the groups that absolutely guarantees the group wasn't fake.
As far as the criticism there isn't a video of my form, no there is one of that as well and the link was already given. Here, to save you the trouble of actually reading the posts in this thread, I'll embed it so you don't have to even click on the link. It's even in slow motion, so you can analyze it more easily.
As far as a book, there was no mention of a boo...rather I was asked to post some "live groups" I obliged. Jeeze, you can make some of the people happy some of the time, but..."
As far as a book, there was no mention of a book...rather I was asked to post some "live groups" I obliged. Jeeze, you can make some of the people happy some of the time, but..."
The relevant goal is not to post good groups with a 70" 35 lb tricked out tournament bow, but rather a real hunting bow. And this wasn't about my talent, in fact I waved off that compliment and said the talent factor was very questionable.
My underlying thesis is the average Joe/Jane has all the necessary talent to shoot as well or let's say nearly as well as the best shots in the world with their tournament rigs but with a hunting bow.
That's huge...Obviously, I'm not making the entire case here. The specific topic, like many topics of similar nature, was just to show some groups. If you want to criticize that, be consistent and criticize everyone who is so uppity as to post groups, ok?
My best 20 yd group is this one I shot Sept 24, 2018. Do I have a vid of the event? Nope. Does anyone really care about my groups? Nope. (‘cept me, of course!) Anyway, nice shooting David! And Zeta, wow! Nicely done!
Lastly, when asked about my methods, I deferred and recommended other people's methods. Have you even read the posts in this thread, Jimbob and reddogge?
Nice group, RobinOnt. When you are that accurate, do like I do and spread the group out just a bit more so as not to damage your arrows...lol.
Yes, we need more videos...always livens up threads. Let's thank those who go to the trouble of shooting a video and posting it. No, I don't mean me personally, but in general. I'm sure were all a little bored with just typed words...
