Anyone will to take this Hunter Accuracy Challenge? It's purpose to see if you can make good shots even with the heart rate going up from excitement/exertion as in many bowhunting situations vs. standing at the line in a tournament.
It varies with age. You should always see your physician first before exercise if you are in doubt as to your physical condition.
Twenty shots at twenty yards for group size using whatever marker or target you wish. One shot at a time. But you jog with your bow to the target and back with thirty seconds to make the shot. A kitchen timer would be helpful but it's not like this is a serious event...
I do a lot of adrenaline drills. Back when I used to compete fita recurve, we would have two guys stand right next to each other with the coaches and other teammates watching and shoot for tens. That's a lot of pressure. Pressure shooting is huge. Another drill I can recommend that always gave me trouble is shooting normally but have someone yell in your ear every once in a while. That apprehension mimics the apprehension when drawing back on a deer pretty well for me.
This is nothing new David A. There was an article, likely more than one about the very same thing years ago. The problem is that buck fever isn't caused by physical exertion...it's totally mental and the overcoming it doesn't work the same as running your ass off and then stopping to shoot. You overcome it by being around deer and controlling the mental side of it.
It's not dissimilar to target panic but is more immediate and consequential since a deer is a living target. If you get all furred-over when a buck gets near you, you need to calm yourself in some manner with that button between your ears. To us old guys, those embarrassing first few misses, early on, tended to teach us what was happening.
What George said. Running around getting out of breath has nothing do to with it..(I've been there), it's all mental. And yeah, I wouldn't take to kindly to someone yelling in my ear.
To be honest, yearly physical fitness is all you need,,,, I am deer hunting, not in special ops,,,, I love deer hunting, but if you get that excited on shooting a deer, maybe you should learn how to relax
Geez... you fellas need to take a breath and give poor David a break... sounds like a fun challenge, regardless of whether or not you feel it simulates real hunting conditions... I say loosen up and have some fun shooting.
“Don't think the "Buck Fever" is all mental but a big dump of adrenelan (flight to fight)" response
thus the shake-a roonies -guess a neurological response triggers the adrenelin dump”
There you go - the mental component triggers the physical; once the adrenaline dump occurs, you can work it to your advantage OR allow it to be your undoing, but you can no more Will it to go away than you can sober up in the middle of a drinking binge because the bouncer said it’s time to go home. Alcohol impairs your ability to drive, so you DON’T DRIVE in that condition. If that big adrenaline dump impairs your ability to shoot accurately, then you DON’T SHOOT.
Difference is, that big adrenaline dump is part of the Predatory Response that bears you up for the attack; it can help you become stronger and more attuned to your surroundings, and frankly, the fact that I don’t really get that rush from beyond about 20 yards is a huge part of why I hunt with a bow (and why I rarely shoot beyond bow range even when I’m out with a scoped, 1-2 MOA rifle and a 2800 fps bullet).
The problem with using wind-sprints to simulate the adrenaline rush of a hunt is that the exertion ON ITS OWN actually makes you weaker and less focused.
And the difference between Pumped Up and Wore Out is so ripe for off- Off-color humor that I’m just gonna acknowledge it and let it go at that.
That runner outside of Fort Collins who won a bare-handed battle to the death with a cougar the other day was obviously PUMPED. Does make you wonder, though, how many “instinctive” shootes have missed high simply because they overshot their usual anchor/release point and the added velocity fried the default settings in their ballistic calculator.
Arguably a great reason to tune your set-up for arrows which let you use the Broadhead-to-the-knuckle draw-stop/clicker so that you don’t inadvertently go from a 27” draw to a 28 1/2”....
Aww, nobody's really picking on David. I'm sure you guys can have fun with it. To make it even funner, videotape doing it and post it on here for the rest of us. ;))
Craig, it's not different, it's just recalled. I've seen it proposed many times in articles in Bow and Arrow, Archery World, etc. It's only new to folks who haven't been around a long time. But then, we continually have to explain brace height, spine, belly, back, etc., so I guess it is new to many folks. If it trips your trigger, have a go at it. I can get tired running across the road to get the mail.
Also, it doesn't hurt to tell anyone that you disagree when they propose a theory. Learnt that from my daddy.
OK, I just did it on videotape. It really did emulate the feeling I have when pulling back on a big buck or elk, esp. after the second shot when I got my heart rate going a bit and was less than rock steady. It's the closest I've come to emulating the actual moment of truth in hunting. You also go a little bit brain dead in your procedure. I highly recommend this!
OK, I just did it on videotape. It really did emulate the feeling I have when pulling back on a big buck or elk, esp. after the second shot when I got my heart rate going a bit and was less than rock steady. It's the closest I've come to emulating the actual moment of truth in hunting. You also go a little bit brain dead in your procedure. I highly recommend this!
I'm still shaking! Was thrown off my normal procedure and after the fourth shot, I couldn't even remember whether I had to shoot one more time or two more times!
This is definitely going to be part of my bowhunting preparation from now on, although I may extend it to 10 shots to induce even more shakes/mental disorientation. When you draw back on a big buck, confidence is so important and knowing you can do this pretty well is just going to add to your confidence.
George, I didn't see that article, just came up with it but it's no big deal. Shooting a lot of deer is probably better to get used to "buck fever" but most of us don't have that much opportunity and may not even want to do that. Even if we are serious hunters, many won't even have a shot opportunity every year.
I also was a bit nervous knowing everyone was going to see the video...my Mantra is "I'll show you how great I am!" but I forgot even that after the first jog back! Pls. excuse my egoism, but I was a pole vaulter back in the day and we all trashed talked to ourselves and others during competitions for one reason, it helped. In "real life", I'm pretty calm...I still consider myself an athlete even at age 70 and maybe that explains my dual persona online. Confidence is so important.
I borrowed that from you know who, Muhammad Ali. The most wonderful feeling I've ever had in athletics and elsewhere in increasing my resolve was self hypnotism to the level "impossible" really was just a word...a feeling like running fast and effortless downhill so that you could almost fly...music also has put me in that state and many athletes use music to program their internal confidence. But, I don't think I'll be using music in hunting. Hunting is different, but the commonality with athletics is the importance of confidence when nervous, when your heart feels like it's almost in your throat.
Alternatively, I guess one could just mentally devalue the situation...seems less attractive because I know it's a lie. I do value the hunt and the opportunity before me.
Craig - it’s not that it’s an all-bad idea; just not exactly comparable from a physiological standpoint.
On the other hand, I’d agree that there is a lot to be said for proving to yourself that you can hold it together and perform adequately when your are feeling out- of-sorts for WHATEVER reason, whether it’s being out of breath from exertion or because some harridan is barking at you while you’re trying to focus on your shot.
Best thing about shooting in a group is the presssure that it can provide....
after the second shot when I got my heart rate going a bit and was less than rock steady. It's the closest I've come to emulating the actual moment of truth in hunting. You also go a little bit brain dead in your procedure
Rick, I did one warm up shot (also on tape) and jogged after the first shot of the series (when I said ok, I'm starting)...I became so discombobulated with thinking about whether I was going to be able to hold steady I lost track of how many shots I had made. So did an extra one. Anyway, I'd say after the first one, you jog back then forward and back jogging.
I also kinda' forgot my shot sequence even though it's pretty simple. Just showed me how important it is to keep a very simple shot sequence. I don't think a 10 step shot tournament sequence is gonna' work well and I never thought those long shot sequences were very good for hunting.
That stuff works well on the line, but when a big bull elk is charging in, almost anyone is going to be significantly rattled. Deer, a little bit less so for me...javalinas, not much at all. Everyone's going to be different...
Interesting. Although, I always thought shooting a bow was much more like shooting a free throw than running up and down the court shooting jump shots. Sooo, my "mantra" wouldn't be Muhammad Ali's "Ahm the greatest" but something more like multiple Cy Young pitcher Steve Carlton who, before games, would close his eyes and visualize throwing fastballs on the inside and outside corners till the middle of the plate no longer existed. But hey, my wife already thinks I'm nuts, so no need to run around the back yard proving it! Jim
Just to note, I deleted a couple of frames when I was pulling arrows because it showed my nontechnical release which I am keeping secret for now. It's past prototyping and is a sweet lil' thing. There was no editing of shots otherwise, all shot in one sequence.
Handle, I use that mantra when I feel like I need to overcome fear or inhibition. To take a bull elk does require domination and other things like athletic competion often require domination if you want to win. It is to your advantage to understand most people are scared...
I have other mantras like "World's steadiest bow arm this time!"...at other times no mantra just visualization. These can be separate or part of my shot sequence. Often just posited in my subconscious. The mind controls the body. I often fail, but I TRY.. Ironically, sometimes one needs to relax, and not try so hard...ha!
I’m big on practicing under pressure. This is not pressure though. Most hunting shots especially for treestand guys aren’t made under physical distress at all. I don’t see how this helps. For guys chasing elk or stalking mule deer I’d sorta see it. Still imo it’s not the same pressure. At the 3Ds around here they have bionic deer. It’s a plate steel deer w a hole cut out. You miss you blow an arrow. It’s only 15 yards typically. Guys don’t need to run to miss. I teach playing tic tac toe. It teaches picking spot and the competition adds pressure. We show kids the pyramid game. Closest one to tip wins. A friendly wager adds to it. As kids at 3D we’d aim for nose tips on deer. I don’t recommend that now cause targets are expensive and it often breaks a nose. Point is you miss and a whole bunch of rocks are behind. Another one. We hang a treestand. We all shoot a 3D deer. Best shot picks next spot., I always pick straight down. It’s easy so why do guys miss? The pressure kills some guys. Running raises endorphins but not adrenaline the same. I just don’t get how any of this would help? I’m not knocking what works for someone though I just don’t see it beneficial unless you need to shoot winded and than it’d be very beneficial
Tremendous negativity on this thread. Seems to be genetic hopelessness.
I used to run our club's 3D range occasionally (20+ targets, challenging terrain). Then, about ten years ago, I got lazy. Wasn't a matter of age (I was only 65 back then). When weather and mud subside I'll get back into it...3Ds around here are often tough to hike, which I love.
If you guys want pressure while shooting, come to my house. My neighbor likes to come over when ever I am shooting and talk to me, ask's me questions, discussions, you know. Many times I just quit shooting.
Ok, I felt it instantly threw me off my normal routine which is what occurs in bowhunting. No it certainly wasn't exactly the same as buck fever. Hope some of you guys go to the trouble of doing a video, pick a subject...maybe your own shooting, whatever.
Probably a fun drill... If I had to offer constructive criticism, Which I don't, but will anyway..lol If indeed this is a hunting drill, why have a bullseye? Forcing yourself to pick a spot is a huge part of the real life situation.. And of course the other thing is ,exercise or raising the blood pressure for the shot isn't a factor for some .. The kill comes as easy as passing the mashed potatoes.. Fun to mix it up though..
Good for you Rick. You can actually see Rick shoot and run. See Rick run, see Rick shoot, see Rick almost not make it :-). Just kidding with you Rick, I couldn't run to save my soul.
"my nontechnical release which I am keeping secret for now" and now how is that different?
When I was younger there were a bunch of us that used to jog the 3D range at the Fish and Game Club. We didn't do it for shooting under pressure aspect but to get in shape for hunting high country. We also did it carrying our packs and so on. That was 30'ish years ago, I guess....maybe more.
I mow my yard with a push mower and shoot a few arrows between mowing and weedeating. It's great practice for shooting while out of breath. However it doesn't prep you at all for shooting with the adrenaline rush of making a shot that you've been wanting really badly. Such as a big buck or the shot to win a competition. Your shot process is all that you have in that moment. Make darn sure it's a good one!
I dunno Flash, I thought it came pretty close to the mind zap when you are about to take a shot at a buck...maybe partially because I new it would be out there in public...it’s more than a stunt maybe...
Guys. Being a good hunter is not the same as being a good archer. Buck fever is something new hunters deal with. You can’t practice it away in your backyard, but it goes away the more you hunt. There is so much much more to learn if you want to be a good bow hunter.
Ok. Here's my go at it this morning . It's 19 degrees , windchill single diets with a stout north wind. I'm shooting east to the west but parked the truck where I'm shooting at to keep arrow from blowing off the shelf. I'm using a 51# @28 black widow PLX. 48# at my draw lenth. The arrows are CX 150's with 200 grain up front for a total weight of 511 graing. 16.6 FOC speed is around 153 fp and cast about 160 yard's . I'm shooting 6 arrows starting the timer at the line then run down to target and back to began first shot. The time is 2:12.36. I'm shooting at a Mckenzie elk target with parts of the 8 ring available to judge the location of hits.
My first shot is a bit low straight up the back side of leg. Second is terrible in front of leg about where the scapula is tied on to the shot leg bone. Third shot is very close to first arrow . Fourth arrow is around five inches above them probably just under the 12 ring if it had one . Five and six are down with one and three making a nice four arrow group just a bit low the bottom arrows are 2 1/2" up from the bottom of the 8 ring not far from the ten.
I'm dressed with a full face mask, gloves coat and arm guard and Bateman tab. I took a picture of the arrows and my phone went off thinking the cold got it.
In many of my shots on big game there is the impulse to hurry the shot, the running and trying to complete the five shots as fast as possible albeit with accuracy was similar in that sense,k
You are in fast paced mode with elevated adrenalin and a bit flushed. Now you must compose yourself for as accurate a shot as possible. It’s not just being somewhat out of breath. Mano a Mano competition where speed of completion is part of overall score would even be more realistic. When people are under time constraint they usually screw up a bit.
That’s why the TV gladiator type programs are set up with the clock running and invariably the competitors fumble and mess.up.
[[[ "In many of my shots on big game there is the impulse to hurry the shot, the running and trying to complete the five shots as fast as possible albeit with accuracy was similar in that sense,k" ]]]
Yes, I agree. I honestly think I could have shot a bit better "IF" I had not felt rushed to get the shot off.
To be quite honest - this exercise makes my shooting much more difficult, than calming my nerves (if there are any) for a shot on an animal, and I can see how it can be very effective in improving "shot control", PLUS it's a good workout.
You may, or may not have been able to hear it in the video, but I was forcing myself (all be it difficult) to take a deep breath, and shoot on a slow exhale on every shot.
I have no doubt, that if I had not done that I would have been wobbling all over the target butt, and my group/accuracy would have reflected that.
Works the same for nerves, and adrenaline rushes. Deep breath, and shoot on a slow exhale. Works (almost) every time.
If you want to improve, come to the IBO Trad World Championship and be held accountable for your score in public, in front of people. Also, your scores are kept on record and searchable online by the public forever. The Hunter Challenge course is always a blast, and the Championship courses are fun too.
Well done Rick. Now, I would like to see the old Bat Race thing that we did during softball tournaments then shoot. You know, guzzle a beer, spin around the bat with your forehead on the end of the bat 10 times, then shoot!!!
[[[ "If you want to improve, come to the IBO Trad World Championship and be held accountable for your score in public, in front of people. Also, your scores are kept on record and searchable online by the public forever. The Hunter Challenge course is always a blast, and the Championship courses are fun too." ]]]
I'd love to do that. Unfortunately, the expense is a little more than I can justify anymore.
That's some good shooting Rick. I expected as much tho. If you want to beat your time, and if your cell phone has the feature, speed up the video like in fast forward.
I've learned a couple things doing this for four days now. First is my targets are not marked yardage so going to the twenty yard scuff mark on the ground has been different. Second , racing the clock shooting the way I usually shoot has been crappie at best. Looking at another's posted time and breaking it down for measure has given me something to work with for improved accuracy . I added three seconds to time preparing for shot and shot better. tomorrow I'm adding five seconds before I start the shot . I shoot several groups after the timed round
