Two Different Arrows tuned too and shot off a 64"/38# Hex7.5 Covert Hunter.

Arrow #1: 30"/.400 spine Beman ICS Pro Hunter w/ 125gr screw-in point...405gr/10.7GPP/190FPS/FOC 19.999%/KE 32.432 ft/lbs/Momentum .341

Arrow #2: 29"/.350 spine CX Mayhem Hunter w/ 300gr screw-in points + (3) 5gr shims...645gr/17GPP/156FPS/FOC 25.862%/KE 34.819 ft/lbs/Momentum .446

2 different groups shot of 3 arrows each and very telling...

Nice demo.

Amazing that a Border at that weight can shoot those arrows! Very cool. I'm assuming you're also using a FF string?

Interesting.

Those arrows wouldn't even shoot out of my 50# bows!

OK, now the punchline. Which arrow penetrated the deepest, the slower/heavier or the faster/lighter?

OK, figured it out --the slower/heavier arrow. That's been the general consensus. Pretty good example of it.

KDdog...yes...12 strands of D97 as twisted up by Allen Shafer of Ten Ring Strings.

What ranges do you feel comfortable at with each arrow? I assume the heavier shaft would start looping downward fairly quickly as it went downrange?

.400 spine out of a 38# bow? How is that even possible?

WOW!!!

How long was the shot?

dang I'm shooting 38#s hex1s from a 64" Rambo warf @26" & 28" 600s with 175 are stiff I just ordered a dozen 700 warriors from Lancaster last night. perhaps I should have tried some 225 or 250 points but really have no desire to shoot that heavy an arrow from a low # bow

Spine requirement is directly related to a combination of a number of things. These include but are not limited to overall arrow length, point weight, centershot measurement, string material, and individual shooter attributes. That being the case the ability to shoot a .400 spine arrow out of a 38lb. bow isn't really earth shattering.

You can shoot virstully any spine arrow (either more or less stiff) out of any draw weight bow as long as you manipultae the static spine by any one of a number of methods to make it behave correctly dynamically. Sonds complicated, but it's not.

Pretty interesting experiment Jinks.

I am more impressed that that 38# bow is capable of moving its 400 grain arrow 190fps than anything else.

Pull each arrow and shoot 1 at a time then experiment that.

Rymancat, what would that do?

It wouldn't do anything.

fdp What you say is true.But in this case the .400 spine arrow only had a 125gr point.I think that was what Spike was questioning.Me to?I shoot .400 with 125gr pts but thats out of a 65Lb DH Hunter recurve.Even out of my bow I had to leave them a couple inches long to get them to spine(bare shaft)right.

It's true, a 400 spine shaft can shoot quickly out of Border CH. I just picked up a used one less than a day ago with hex7.5's. 21" riser medium limbs #43@ my draw. It buried arrows in the target, I could hardly pull them out. Got a FF string for it, and some limb savers. They are a very unique bow. I'm still tuning it and getting use to the sensation of let off, but I'm loving this bow. I didn't have the same results as Jinks through the crono, but I hope to get there soon. Mine is braced at 6.5", and the plate is built out. Shooting an Easton axis 400 cut to 29.5 BOP with 200 grains up front, I got 169 fps, still need to do some fine tuning. Got any recommendations for me Jinkster ?

My new to me baby

fdp: is correct in all he says and for those who are a bit taken with .400 spine arrows tipped with 125gr screw-ins not being too stiff and well tuned on my 38# bow?...the first thing to take into consideration is that big hook limbs (be they Hex or Max) store quite a bit more energy than do limbs of a more conventional profile where my 38# Hex7.5 limbs are quite literally the mathematical equivalent of a conventional recurve in the DW range of about 50-52#s and then the 2nd thing to take into consideration is that my Covert Hunters 21" Phenolic riser is cut 5/16ths" (.312") PAST center with a strike-plate thickness that positions my arrows just a hair past center-shot and with nearly 7 1/2"s of "String/Groove Engagement" on both ends of those big hooks?...that string too groove engagement starts happening within the first couple inches of string travel (almost immediately after the loose) which serves as a string guide of sorts to rapidly bring the string (and arrow) into centerline which injects the bows energy into the arrow (that isn't required to flex around the bow much at all) in a more direct fashion and these are the things that not only allow but "Require" that I use a stiffer spined arrows..."Pending Arrow Length"

crookedstix:

"What ranges do you feel comfortable at with each arrow? I assume the heavier shaft would start looping downward fairly quickly as it went downrange?"

I wouldn't hgesitate to shoot a 60yd/50yd/40yd 900rd with the 405gr arrows as they have a 50yd point-on and while I'm deadly with the 645gr arrows out to 25yds?...things get a bit sketchy past that despite them having a 35yd point-on.

It may alkso be of interest to note that while I can shoot the bare shaft version of the 405gr arrows too the mark and cleanly out too 25yds?...I can only bare shaft tune out to about 15yds with the bare shafts donning the heavy 315grs worth of point weight before they go into a nose dive and things can get crazy quick if I'm not on top of my grip pressure game.

Zagnee: 18yds.

The Super curves are on a different spine chart. I shoot a 38# Morrison Max 5 and Gold tip 500's tune the best for me.

190 FPS at almost 11 GPP is kinda mind-blowing.

IMO

I would be thrilled with an honest 190 at 9 GPP...

So now, the burning question: can you replicate that result in a brand new, perfectly uniform target medium like the insulation foam (or ethafoam would be terrific)?

And how do those logs do compared to 9 GPP?

I'm heading back to the local shop on Monday . I'll get in some more time with the chrono and some 500's :) gonna try some 23/64 #71 POC's as well, just for fun.

"7 1/2"s of "String/Groove Engagement" that's HUGE in the performance department.

I have a Border CH and until recently, a Whippenstick Phoenix which also has big hooks. Not as big as a Border's but bigger than almost all conventional recurve bows. It's 41#@29" and uses 29" POC shafts spined 71#. With 125 grain tips. Center cut. Anything less than that doesn't work. It's not just Border or super recurves!

Bill I don't think you can't go by more penetration in a hay ball it might be a soft spot. What do you think?

Well, I think 2 ends of 6 arrows each with the same results on each shows me something.

Keep in mind that arrows don't tune to the poundage of the bow. They tune to the energy delivered to the arrow by the bow.

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