Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


2019 Martin/Howatt trad bows

Messages posted to thread:
Uncle Lijiah 11-Jan-19
Uncle Lijiah 11-Jan-19
Uncle Lijiah 11-Jan-19
wonderbowman 11-Jan-19
George D. Stout 11-Jan-19
Uncle Lijiah 11-Jan-19
Mpdh 11-Jan-19
Backcountry 11-Jan-19
George D. Stout 11-Jan-19
wonderbowman 11-Jan-19
Backcountry 11-Jan-19
BOWNUT 11-Jan-19
Timbukto 11-Jan-19
PECO 11-Jan-19
Gvdocholiday 11-Jan-19
Uncle Lijiah 11-Jan-19
Backcountry 11-Jan-19
WillMac 11-Jan-19
MStyles 11-Jan-19
goldentrout_one 11-Jan-19
wonderbowman 12-Jan-19
George D. Stout 12-Jan-19
George D. Stout 12-Jan-19
wonderbowman 12-Jan-19
George D. Stout 12-Jan-19
PECO 12-Jan-19
goldentrout_one 12-Jan-19
Uncle Lijiah 13-Jan-19
deerhunt51 19-Jan-19
PECO 19-Jan-19
doug 19-Jan-19
YamahaYG68 09-Feb-19
YamahaYG68 10-Feb-19
Sawtooth (Original) 10-Feb-19
YamahaYG68 18-Feb-19
larryhatfield 18-Feb-19
JFH 18-Feb-19
YamahaYG68 24-Feb-19
From: Uncle Lijiah
Date: 11-Jan-19

Uncle Lijiah's embedded Photo



Some Facebook pics of new Howatt Heritage 66 amo longbow.

From: Uncle Lijiah
Date: 11-Jan-19

Uncle Lijiah's embedded Photo



From: Uncle Lijiah
Date: 11-Jan-19

Uncle Lijiah's embedded Photo



Looks like 2019 Mamba is black once again.

From: wonderbowman
Date: 11-Jan-19




man, i'm sure glad i have my older ones...

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 11-Jan-19




They look pretty good to me. Always good to try one before deciding how good or how bad they are. They may be exceptional shooters.

https://martinarchery.com/bows/traditional/

From: Uncle Lijiah
Date: 11-Jan-19




The Heritage 66 is a R/d design but it's said to quality as a longbow. That would mean it's a new design and not made on same forms as the discontinued Martin Vision or Venom.

From: Mpdh Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 11-Jan-19




We’ve all read opinions on how the new bows measure up to the older ones, and I respect those opinions. But I will wait until I shoot the new ones before I say like or dislike. They sure do look nice, at least from the pics I’ve seen.

MP

From: Backcountry
Date: 11-Jan-19




If Larry didn't build it, I don't want it.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 11-Jan-19




It's up to each person to decide to believe tales or actually try one for themselves. Opinions are for the most part meaningless since they normally contain personal bias. The least one can do is give the line a fair trial before issuing a sentence. I'm betting they will shoot just fine. But then, I'm not in the market for any new bows so mine is also just an opinion. Be fair about how you review something, especially if you never even handled one.

From: wonderbowman
Date: 11-Jan-19




I don't need to try one out...I think that longbow riser is one of the most hideous I've ever seen. The mamba riser might be all right if you had a thumb like King Kong.

They're trying to build off a reputation of one of the finest bowyers who ever lived and those he taught. I don't think they're accomplishing that. The classic Howatt lines just aren't there.

From: Backcountry
Date: 11-Jan-19




To clarify, my opinion is if Larry didn't build it, I don't want it.

From: BOWNUT
Date: 11-Jan-19




Will there be any at Kalamazoo?

From: Timbukto
Date: 11-Jan-19




It seams most would prefer if they fold up shop, to me that is sad. Who to say a great bowyer won't get his start at Martin. I would recommend people actually shoot a bow before being critical of it. I will tell you this as a retailer from 2006-2013 I saw a lot of delaminated bows from the old guard for what ever reason. Most likely the reason was they produced an awful lot of bows. I shot the bows that came after 2013 they shot good. In fact they were better in my option than the club handled huge tip bows of the 80s that howatt was putting out. Yes Larry Hatfield is gem in our sport, but that doesn't mean what comes next is bad.

From: PECO
Date: 11-Jan-19




I would also like to see them succeed.

From: Gvdocholiday Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 11-Jan-19




I have a problem with the arrow shelf on all of the new Martins. Just looks gawdy. Shelf is way too wide and sits way too high off the hand.

I don't really care who laid up the laminations and put them in the form though. As long as the limbs are straight, glass is clear, tillered properly and hits weight, the rest doesn't really matter. I imagine the bowyers at Martin/DH build ALOT of bows every year...I don't hear of many complaints of quality.

From: Uncle Lijiah
Date: 11-Jan-19




I want Martin/Howatt Archery to succeed. I want Bear Archery to succeed. I also want Bearpaw Bows to succeed. The more traditional archery options, the better. I want the sport of traditional archery to keep growing, not die out.

From: Backcountry
Date: 11-Jan-19




Seems like the new Martin people disregarded much of what Larry did to make DH/Gail Martin bows such as success for so long. I know, it's just business, but still they could have paid a little more respect to the tradition, styling, and craftsmanship that was the hallmark of Damon Howatt bows and that Larry kept alive in his tenure there.

And it's not just a problem with the new Martin bows. I saw some new Super K's on the sale rack in Cabela's bargain cave, and no wonder! They were unrefined clubs. On the other hand, Bear's custom/limited edition takedowns from the same era were superb.

From: WillMac
Date: 11-Jan-19




I agree about actually shooting a bow before you proceed to dis or critique it. I owned a few DH and older Martin's but was open to trying the new models as they came available. I have a Hunter, Savannah and Mamba, all from the sweet spot of the DH era and I have a newer Scorpion. I also have a early model Stealth and Scorpion. Other than the difference of the mass and weight of the different woods/epoxy/resins of the risers, all bows shoot incredibly good; smooth in the draw, quick in the cast, very satisfying all around. Yes, even though the models are practically the same, no two off the current or past production lines were ever exact copies of each other either so to say they grip a bit different, or look a bit different is just stating the obvious.

No, we will never have the magic of what DH and Gail Martin and Larry H. were putting out ever again. That is what makes them special and will be remembered for. Treasure thems that have 'em. However, the newer Savannah Stealth and Scorpion are not just good bows, they are quality bows that perform very well. I will be buying a new 2019 black Mamba when they come out and expect it will be also a quality recurve bow that shoots very well.

Anyone on the LW who buys a new Martin Trad bow and doesn't like it is free to contact me regarding re-homing it. I like the 45-50 draw range. ;0)

I just purchased a Nighthawk (for which I'd been looking for, for a coons age) from a fellow LWer and have yet to shoot it but still need a Shadow longbow to round out my collection if anyone has one.

From: MStyles
Date: 11-Jan-19




I’m happy to see any bow made in the USA. Since I’m an American, I want whomever is making them to succeed. We don’t need any more Archery companies closing their doors.

From: goldentrout_one
Date: 11-Jan-19




The Heritage long bow riser is pretty gaudy to me.... no simple, clean lines, kind of complicated for complication's sake. The Mamba? Neither fish nor fowl, I'm not really enamored with plywood risers, but that's due to personal taste. They need to lose the HUGE, tacky "Hand Made in the USA", reminds me of some drunk yahoos with wife-beater shirts and painted faces at a sporting event screaming "USA! USA!" A bit pedestrian... Just have a nice, clean label on the limb that says "Damon Howatt" and then "Walla Walla, Washington" or wherever they're made now. Or maybe even bring back some of the logos they used in the 60s. They need to seek out clean, understated designs (re: Dream Catcher), and try to avoid tacky, gaudy stuff that looks home-made. I do like the Hunter and Mamba of the last few years though... I think they hit a home-run with both those bows, kind of going back to their roots (relatively speaking). I haven't shot one though, just handled a few... they look nice.

From: wonderbowman
Date: 12-Jan-19




Nicely put GT1. A lot better than my "they're just fugly ".

I believe ANY bow can be made to shoot to practical levels that I need. aesthetics are what draw me to a bow. To say I want them to survive because they bought the Howatt name would be akin to saying I'd like someone to buy the studebaker line but it'd be ok if they look like a yugo. They need to live up to the legend.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 12-Jan-19




The ones I see look just fine so maybe you can tell us which ones are awful or gaudy. I've seen some custom bows that wouldn't win any beauty contests...and looked pretty gaudy with amoeba like open grain veneers that looked like a Rorschach Test. Again, gaudy is an opinion.

Look them over on this link and explain what's awful about the Diablo, Hunter, Mamba, or any other on that page.

https://martinarchery.com/bows/traditional/

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 12-Jan-19

George D. Stout's embedded Photo



As for the shelf high above the grip, here's an old Super Diablo that is very much like the new ones in that regard.

From: wonderbowman
Date: 12-Jan-19




I dunno George...I thought a was darn specific earlier.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 12-Jan-19




I guess it's just how we see things. Fair enough.

From: PECO
Date: 12-Jan-19




I don't like the arrow on my hand, so a high shelf is fine with me. I also don't like to use a stick on elevated rest, so again a high shelf is fine with me. That's just my preference.

From: goldentrout_one
Date: 12-Jan-19




George, agreed that beauty is in the eye of the beholder... for example, back in the 1980s to early 1990s I thought black widows were the most beautiful bows going... today? They just look like a big ungainly chunk of wood... what changed? I did.... not black widow. Just personal taste... I hope Martin sells a lot of those Heritage long bows, but they won't sell one to me.

My comments were directed at the bows pictured at the beginning of the thread. Going to the website, I do like the looks of those bows for the most part.... and as I indicated in my post, I do like the most recent iterations of the Hunter and the Mamba, as they give me something of a 1970s Damon Howatt lineup vibe (I was shooting my 1970s curve-stripe Hunter this morning). Again, personal taste.

I'm not that into the Diablo Super Elite.... too much plywood, but again, that's more my personal taste. Also, anytime someone puts the word 'Elite' in something, it's an instant turn-off. For example, St. Croix discontinued their Legend Ultra fly rod series and replaced it with the "Legend Elite". I know they're good rods, but I just can't get past the attempted snobbery of calling something 'Elite'. Yeah, I know I probably need talk to a therapist about this, but that's how I feel....

From: Uncle Lijiah
Date: 13-Jan-19




I don’t think the Heritafe 66 riser is intended to be trim and lightweight like the Savannah. It’s made to have extra mass like Fox and Timberpoint longbows.

From: deerhunt51
Date: 19-Jan-19




Martin as a company is going to succeed. A young man I know won the pro division at LasVegas last year with the then-new Martin compound. So, that alone will keep them going for now. As far as Martin trad bows go, I do not think so.

From: PECO
Date: 19-Jan-19




Lots of talk about the new 2019 bows over on bowsite, not one mention of Martin, or Darton. Now back to the trad line, that riser shape is nice, but the way they laid the wood is ugly.

From: doug
Date: 19-Jan-19




wonderbowman has it right, there is no artisanship in that longbow riser. it may be functional but that's all, it has no beauty.

From: YamahaYG68
Date: 09-Feb-19

YamahaYG68's embedded Photo



I am curious as to what the part of the Martin facility the traditional bows are currently made, how many bowyers do they employ and what the general experience level is.

May never find out, but I am curious.

As for the embellishment on the new Mamba, to each their own, but for me it seems a bit over the top and could have been more subtle. The Mamba is too short for me anyway, but I prefer the look of the older ones from the 70's.

But then I like my 1992 plywood Hunter, and not everyone likes those; I think it is a strong riser, though.

From: YamahaYG68
Date: 10-Feb-19

YamahaYG68's embedded Photo



My 1992 "plywood" Hunter

From: Sawtooth (Original) Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 10-Feb-19




I really like Martin/Howatt bows. The older ones. I had the opportunity recently to hold and draw most of their new models. I did not care for them at all. The grips are blocky and the limbs are way overbuilt. The finishes that I saw weren’t that good either. The newer ones are just outclassed by the older Martin stuff.

From: YamahaYG68
Date: 18-Feb-19

YamahaYG68's embedded Photo



"I don’t think the Heritafe 66 riser is intended to be trim and lightweight like the Savannah. It’s made to have extra mass like Fox and Timberpoint longbows."

Yeah, I have thought about this a bit more and I think I see what they did with the design.

They have come out with a longer bow, which should make some of us 30" draw guys happy.

It lists at 2 pounds 5 oz.s which is heavier than their other offerings, this weight should make it nice to shoot for activities like 3D or extended practice/recreational use.

There are a number of things I would like to check out on it, the main one is compatibility with WA Instinctive Rule Requirements;

"free from protrusions, sights or sight marks, marks or blemishes or laminated pieces (within the bow window area) which could be of use in aiming. 22.4.1.1. Multi-coloured bow risers and trademarks located on the inside of the upper and lower limb are permitted. However if the area within the sight window is coloured in such a way that it could be used for aiming, then it must be taped over.”

If the glass ends at the upper red arrow in the picture, it should be OK, if it ends at the lower red arrow, maybe a prob.

I assume it is a reflex/deflex.

It would be interesting to see a full length picture of it.

A review or report on shooting it would be of interest but we may have to wait for that because it is so new.

From: larryhatfield
Date: 18-Feb-19

larryhatfield's embedded Photo



Terry Martin has a new business, going back to his music interests. Walla Walla Guitar Co.. I built some guitar bodies for him back in the day that were sold to several name bands, but his offerings today are light years from those days! One of his offerings with an Oregon small town reference. Just thought some would like to know what at least one of the Martins is doing now.

From: JFH
Date: 18-Feb-19




They look ok to me for what they are. A mass produced bow to be available to people looking for an entry level bow at hopefully a reasonable price. Better to get that than something on ebay that's been sawed n sanded on or just abused to the point of being useless. If you want custom, pony up and pay a craftsman and get a custom. Don't gripe if they aren't just what you would like to see/buy...…..

From: YamahaYG68
Date: 24-Feb-19




The Heritage 66 is listed on the Martin site with an MSRP of $785.00, which is above what I would call entry level, without seeing one, other than in pictures, I can't say what the finish and quality would be.





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