Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


TARGET PANIC--The CURE? Maybe

Messages posted to thread:
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Elderly OCR 13-Oct-18
Sam Dunham 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
hunterbob 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
SB 13-Oct-18
Dan W 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
bowcrazy 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Beendare 13-Oct-18
2 bears 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Sam Dunham 13-Oct-18
fullmetaljacket 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
fullmetaljacket 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Skeets 13-Oct-18
Glynn 13-Oct-18
Sam Dunham 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
SB 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
krakka17 13-Oct-18
Glynn 13-Oct-18
Big-D 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Silverhawk 13-Oct-18
sheepdogreno 13-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 13-Oct-18
Arrowflinger 14-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 14-Oct-18
HedgeHunter 14-Oct-18
hunterbob 14-Oct-18
Live2Hunt 14-Oct-18
Liquid Tension 14-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 14-Oct-18
Liquid Tension 14-Oct-18
Bowmania 14-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 14-Oct-18
HedgeHunter 14-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 14-Oct-18
HedgeHunter 14-Oct-18
sheepdogreno 14-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 14-Oct-18
lost run 14-Oct-18
limbow 15-Oct-18
RymanCat 15-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 15-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 15-Oct-18
M.P. 15-Oct-18
Glynn 15-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 15-Oct-18
yohon 15-Oct-18
Bryce 15-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 20-Oct-18
Phil 20-Oct-18
Animal 20-Oct-18
Phil 20-Oct-18
BOHO 20-Oct-18
Glynn 20-Oct-18
Sam Dunham 21-Oct-18
Ronin 21-Oct-18
David A. 21-Oct-18
Bill McNeal 21-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 21-Oct-18
Liquid Tension 21-Oct-18
David A. 21-Oct-18
HedgeHunter 21-Oct-18
Liquid Tension 21-Oct-18
Jim 21-Oct-18
Hico 21-Oct-18
David A. 22-Oct-18
Bowguy 22-Oct-18
krakka17 22-Oct-18
George D. Stout 22-Oct-18
Sam Dunham 22-Oct-18
Bowguy 22-Oct-18
Liquid Tension 22-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 22-Oct-18
Sam Dunham 22-Oct-18
Phil 22-Oct-18
Liquid Tension 22-Oct-18
David A. 24-Oct-18
Demmer 24-Oct-18
babysaph 25-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 25-Oct-18
David A. 25-Oct-18
tecum-tha 26-Oct-18
Liquid Tension 26-Oct-18
Phil 27-Oct-18
Liquid Tension 27-Oct-18
CW 27-Oct-18
David A. 27-Oct-18
David A. 27-Oct-18
Sam Dunham 27-Oct-18
Liquid Tension 27-Oct-18
David A. 27-Oct-18
David A. 27-Oct-18
Liquid Tension 27-Oct-18
Phil 27-Oct-18
David A. 27-Oct-18
David A. 27-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 27-Oct-18
Liquid Tension 27-Oct-18
jk 27-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 27-Oct-18
David A. 27-Oct-18
Phil 27-Oct-18
jk 27-Oct-18
jk 27-Oct-18
Sam Dunham 27-Oct-18
hunterbob 27-Oct-18
David A. 27-Oct-18
Draven 27-Oct-18
David A. 27-Oct-18
David A. 27-Oct-18
camodave 28-Oct-18
David A. 28-Oct-18
Phil 28-Oct-18
Liquid Tension 28-Oct-18
David A. 28-Oct-18
Elderly OCR 28-Oct-18
Missouribreaks 28-Oct-18
David A. 28-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 01-Nov-18
Homey88 02-Nov-18
Jim Casto Jr 04-Nov-18
The Whittler 04-Nov-18
Bowlim 04-Nov-18
David A. 05-Nov-18
David Mitchell 06-Nov-18
dean 06-Nov-18
yohon 06-Nov-18
babysaph 08-Nov-18
Geezer 08-Nov-18
Geezer 08-Nov-18
David Mitchell 08-Nov-18
From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Okay, I’ll admit, I’ve suffered from this damnable stuff for years. I’ve tried everything I’ve seen and read on the topic and still, no cure. I hunted and shot with a clicker for years, then, started anticipating it and blew up. I shot left- handed for years and did okay, but have never been able to shoot as well as I do, right-handed.

After much trial and error, I’ve come up with a regimen that DID IT for me as well as a friend, who also suffered from this demon. We finally have SUCCESS.

Now… I’m not a good shot, not a psychologist, not an archery coach or anything of the sort. I’m just a desperate archer who’s tried everything. Nothing worked—until now.

I honestly “think” if you're willing to put in the work and spend 63 days following the regimen I’ve put together, you'll have success too. If you're as frustrated and as desperate as I was, in the words of President Trump, “What in the hell do you have to lose?"

So far, two guys have followed it and both have been successful. I don't want to post it all over the place—just yet. (Not real fond of making a fool or ass of myself.) I'd like to get some feedback from a few guys to see how it works for others. If it works for the majority, then, we’ll just pass it along to everyone. If not, we’ll just say... well... just another bunch of crap. :^)

So… I need some guinea pigs. I’d like 10 or 12 volunteers who are willing to follow a strict regimen for 63 days; who are willing to put in the time and effort and not cheat or short-circuit the drills.

If you’re interested, just PM me your email address and I’ll forward you the regimen and a spreadsheet to keep track of your progress on. I’d appreciate communication along the way with updates of your progress too.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




One in.... 11 to go. :^)

From: Elderly OCR
Date: 13-Oct-18




Are you Alfording, Jim? lol

From: Sam Dunham Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 13-Oct-18




Jim is a great one, in every sense of the word! You should take him up on such a good offer.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Elderly,

I know you were kidding, but No! If this helps a few guys, in two months I'll post it all for everyone to see. If not, we'll chaulk it up as another... well... Alford. :^)

My friend and I can now shoot in control of our shots. We haven't been able to do that for 35 years. So...........

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Two in... 10 to go.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Three in... 9 to go.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Four in... 8 to go.

From: hunterbob
Date: 13-Oct-18




It will not let me send you a PM Jim. But count me in. See if you can send me a Pm and I will give you the info.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Five in... 7 to go.

From: SB
Date: 13-Oct-18




63 days?....uh,no. I switched to left-handed and that was the end of it..7 yrs. Ago!

From: Dan W
Date: 13-Oct-18




I switched to LH 23 years ago. But RH shooting stayed in the back of my mind- unfinished business as it were, always bothering me for years.

One teacher I studied with insisted on ambidexterity in his particular style, my chiropractor insisted I exercise both sides for spinal health, so very slowly by hit & miss (MISS!) attempts made partial gains and got back about 30% control RH.

There is still a lot of woodshedding to be done. Jim's method is promising, I did some similar things myself over the years. I coach a lot, so it's important to be able to hold things together in front of my students. Fortunately, LH shooting is perfect for teaching; majority of archers are RH so I am face-to-face with them for showing them stuff, and then watching them. "mirroring" is a term I learned for this face-to-face kind of demonstrating.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Yep, I switched to lefty too, about 10 years ago. No more panic, but I'm a righty... so.... I never gave up hope. Wasn't the end of it for me.

Good for you. I'm glad "you're" satisfied.

From: bowcrazy
Date: 13-Oct-18




It won't let me send you a pm Jim but I would like to try it. Thanks. Brad Maybe you can send me a p.m.?

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




hunterbob,

I sent a PM. Let me know if it goes thru.

Six in... 6 to go.

From: Beendare
Date: 13-Oct-18




any way to know what I'm getting myself in to first?

From: 2 bears
Date: 13-Oct-18




Yeah Jim, if it takes 63 days and involves no shooting,or blank or blind bale only,by then the hunting seasons will be over. Could be a very clever way of eliminating all the competition for that big buck. 8^) >>>>-----> Ken

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Beendare,

About 20 to 30 minutes a day for 63 days of STRICT discipline.

bowcrazy,

I'll send you a PM. We'll see if that works.

Seven in... 5 to go.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




That's funny, Ken. I'm thinking the kind of guys that are desperate enough to try this have lost all confidence to hunt anyway.

You're on the right track.... a lot of blank bailing for sure-- but not all.

From: Sam Dunham Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 13-Oct-18




Amen, I went through Jims program several years ago and it works!

From: fullmetaljacket
Date: 13-Oct-18




Jim thanks for the email but I’m thinking I should wait till after hunting season or I guess I could use the wheel bow and that wouldn’t effect your program

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Jamie,

I honestly don't think it would affect you at all if you use the compound.

From: fullmetaljacket
Date: 13-Oct-18




Ok thanks that’s what I’m thinking also I’ll get started on this tomorrow

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Sam,

Unless someone just sent it to you, you've not gone thru these drills. I've never seen this program anywhere. It only exists in my mind--and my success with it. :^)

... and, of course in the success of my friend too.

From: Skeets
Date: 13-Oct-18




Jim, I have the same problem as hunterbob. Please try to PM me and then maybe we can contact by email.

From: Glynn
Date: 13-Oct-18




I would love to give it a go Jim. I just started bowhunting today though and can't imagine not trying to fill my tags till about December.

I'm doing real well with the clicker right now but would really like to go back to without it.

Is it possible to hunt and do this or do I need to wait?

From: Sam Dunham Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 13-Oct-18




Sounds good Jim. I did the Jenkins bridging and still do it to keep my form and control.

I have control now but I say one can always improve.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




I think that's the key, Sam--staying with it all the time to keep the control and form in check.

From: SB
Date: 13-Oct-18




Jim, a shop related accident messed up my left elbow. I shot through it a few years but the pain started to get so bad it actually CAUSED the worst case of TP known to man! I HAD to switch sides! I can't even pull 25# right handed!

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Glynn,

I'm thinking if you're using a clicker, it shouldn't affect this program at all. We can give it a go and see how it works for you. PM me your email address.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Sorry to hear that, SB. My TP wasn't physical--all mental.

Nine in... 3 to go.

From: krakka17
Date: 13-Oct-18




I’m in. Unable to pm you for some reason. Shoot me a pm and I’ll text you. Id be a great candidate....

From: Glynn
Date: 13-Oct-18




Jim I get a server error when I click on your name. I'll try PMing you over on TT.

From: Big-D
Date: 13-Oct-18




Jim I would like to be in but I get a server error. When I try to send a pm

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




krakka17 & Glynn,

I just sent you guys PM's. You can send your email by return path.

Ten in... 2 to go.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Big-D,

Just sent you a PM.

Eleven in... 1 to go.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




Okay... we're all done and all thru.

Now... I'm counting on you guys to follow the drills to the letter and not cheat. :^)

I know things will come up and the holidays so none of you will probably get done in 63 consecutive days. So, I expect we'll be back about the the first of the year with reports from everyone.

Wish them luck.

:^)

From: Silverhawk
Date: 13-Oct-18




I hope people join in. I've had it for fifty years.

From: sheepdogreno
Date: 13-Oct-18




one more maybe?? please...

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 13-Oct-18




I just wanted to make one more post to thank all you guys for your willingness to give this a go. Hopefully, we'll find out that my buddy and I aren't flukes. :^) If you guys have good results, I'm hoping we can offer help to literally thousands of folks who are afflicted with this devil.

Thanks again, and good luck to all of you.

From: Arrowflinger
Date: 14-Oct-18




Jim I've had TP for years and shoot with a clicker. I would like to be included in your program but am unable to send you a PM. One more in the try out wouldn't hurt anything. If your program does not work for most of these guys after the 63 days, are you going to offer it to people that want to try it anyway?

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 14-Oct-18




Arrowflinger,

My fear is folks may not follow the drills TO THE LETTER. So... I'd like to see how many really stick with it compared to those that don't.

Like I said, this is for the most desperate among us. :^) I've followed the Rod Jenkins method, tried all of Kidwell's suggestions and did the psycho trigger taught by Joel Turner. I thank God for these good men and I know their methods have cured many--but not me. While I made improvements there was still no CURE for this demon--for me.

It's really very simple. It's all about ingraing, confidence and MAINTAINING; the key may well be the maintain part.

Let's see how it goes with these fella's and we'll go from there.

From: HedgeHunter
Date: 14-Oct-18




Never had seen the stuff til I watch video last winter from PA.

HH~

From: hunterbob
Date: 14-Oct-18




It's going to be hard not shooting at all for awhile but I am 100 percent all in . I hope to be one of your success stories at the end of the 63 days.

From: Live2Hunt
Date: 14-Oct-18




Sounds like something I had to do when I shot compound, shoot no shot, but did it for two weeks. It still fares up for me, but knowing I can stop it and drawing without releasing a few times I'm OK.

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 14-Oct-18




I’m assuming Jim this is along the lines of Blank Bale no targets & eventually a Bridge Program? TP is never cured but it can be held@ bay. Much like an alcoholic or drug addict is not cured.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 14-Oct-18




Spot-on, Chris. Similar to Len Cardinale's program, but longer and more rigid--I think--with maintenance drills at the end.

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 14-Oct-18




Got it Jim. Bernie Pellerite had Len come to Ohio & picked his brain which resulted in Bernie’s book Idiot proof Archery. Pretty good details on TP in the book.

The part most won’t do Jim is to shut it down. No targets, No Cheating, Ingrain a New Sequence on Bale,& SLOWLY introduce the Bridge.

Some in trad start snap shooting to help panic which the absolute worse thing you can do. Also trying to shoot thru Panic is just going to make it worse. The brain needs reprogramming with a New Stronger Sequence.

I commend you Jim your gonna need lots of luck on here. To the doubters Jim’s program will work & you’ll come out the other side a better Archer but it’s work & discipline.

From: Bowmania Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Oct-18




Jim, Are you going to do an open piece here? Or is that part of the "Not real fond of making a fool or ass of myself." I'll do it for you, because I'm use to making a fool or ass out of myself, in fact, I do it weekly!!!

I can't PM you either, but very interested for coaching purposes. In fact, on the other current TP thread I made that request.

Bowmania

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 14-Oct-18




Todd,

Hopefully, the results will speak for themselves thru the volunteers. We'll just have to see how it goes.

From: HedgeHunter
Date: 14-Oct-18




Sime Snappers can shoot. Figger its like the paper boy who memorized every yard off his bike and cam put a paper he rolled on the frint stoop 75% of the time. Purdy darn gud.

HH~

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 14-Oct-18




Shawn,

Most times I can figure out what you're getting at... sometimes I don't. This is one of those "don't" times. This thread has nothing at all to do with snap-shooters.

From: HedgeHunter
Date: 14-Oct-18




Dont know, never saw TP cept on TV. Thought some Backyard olympian said somewhere’s “ Snapping is the cure for the ill of TP”.

Ya think Jim

From: sheepdogreno
Date: 14-Oct-18




after day one im finding I have it in myself to draw and hold without shooting...I bet I did 30-40 draw and hold with no shot today and Im already feeling much better...thanks Jim this is helping me already...

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 14-Oct-18




That's good news, Darron. Part of this stuff (and deeper) is tonight, you'll reflect and meditate on what you just accomplished. The next time you'll be more confident going in and hopefully a little more confident cominig out. :^)

You simply HAVE to follow the drills to the LETTER.

Remember, it's not just draw and hold. It's draw anchor, set you back muscles keeping tension, and "immerse" in aiming, then let down.

From: lost run
Date: 14-Oct-18




Nice of you to be willing to help people Jim.

From: limbow
Date: 15-Oct-18




Jim- If possible please forward the info to: ozman815@gmail.com

Thanks in advance.

Kevin in Michigan

From: RymanCat
Date: 15-Oct-18




If you have it I say we have to learn to live with it. I don't believe it can ever be overcome and cured completely.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 15-Oct-18




Glenn, you may be right that can never be cured, but you're definitely wrong that it can't be overcome.

:^)

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 15-Oct-18




For all you fella's who have the drills and are going to start. I have no idea how badly you suffer from this devil and we're all certainly different so.........

You absolutely MUST have a shot sequence and use good consistent back tension during these drills. Go over each part of shot sequence every time and when you come to full draw, you must consentrate on aiming. When I use the word immerse, it means total and complete thought towards aiming. In the end, you’ll be able to hold on the target while aiming without that NEED to open your fingers and release the string.

You may not be able to advance, or extend your distance as quickly, or feel as comfortable as we'd like. So.... if at any time your not comfortable, slow up and go back to the previous step. We’re in no hurry here. Stay with it—you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. NEVER stress yourself; don’t let any anxiety come it. Stay where you are, or go back a step or two. Do NOT try to advance until you KNOW you’re ready to.

From: M.P.
Date: 15-Oct-18




Hey jim,could you send me the info?

From: Glynn
Date: 15-Oct-18




I don't mind "burning a hole" in the target as long as we call it immersion. lol

Thanks Jim

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 15-Oct-18




LOL

.... and I don't care if you immerse in aiming and call it burning a hole--just make sure you do it.

lol lol

From: yohon Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 15-Oct-18




Well I've been hunting and didnt see this till just now.....way to go Jim!!! I am anxious to hear the results that is awesome of you to do this. I asked Lenny one time how many people followed thru COMPLETELY on his program....he held his index finger and thumb about a 1/2" apart and said "this many" LOL

From: Bryce Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 15-Oct-18




Very generous offer. I wish you all the best in success!

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 20-Oct-18




It's only been a week since the first guinea pigs... or, I mean volunteers, started their drills. I'm getting some very good feedback how their confidence level and control is increasing daily.

Very encouraging--so far.

Thanks again fella's.

From: Phil
Date: 20-Oct-18




Jim

Thanks a lot for doing this. Looking forward to the results once the trial period is over.

From: Animal Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 20-Oct-18




Jim, I want in but can't seem to get through to you through PM. If you could contact me (PM) I would love to get in also.

From: Phil
Date: 20-Oct-18




For those of you who are following or participating in Jim's regime, Jim has been kind enough to send me a copy of the regime for review.

I'm choosing my words very carefully because I don't wish to corrupt or add a bias to those participating, but could I reinforce Jims comments that, to obtain the absolute best results, those participating follow the the regime to the letter.

This is going to be very interesting.

From: BOHO
Date: 20-Oct-18




Pm sent !!!

From: Glynn
Date: 20-Oct-18




Another great by-product of this exercise is the blank bale opportunity. You can experiment with string finger tension, anchor points, elbow height, scapula engagement, bow hand placement...everything.

I have been slacking on the bale, this is going to help me with my shot, ie, getting to know it better.

I can't do this every day either, so a few months worth.

From: Sam Dunham Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 21-Oct-18




I think it is great! I had TP but got rid of the control it had on me and now shoot with control due to learning a sequence and keeping it in check by bridging and draw and let downs.

It is not a bad thing to admit that you have it,,it is worse to let it go and not get your control back.

I Sam, known by many and feared by few and I have TP.

OK, now let's go to work and get our shot back!

Up for Jim's thread.

From: Ronin
Date: 21-Oct-18




I couldn't get through to Jim by PM either.

From: David A.
Date: 21-Oct-18




Jim, Why the insult? I’ve helped people from this site and internationally as well...anyone who has met me knows l’m sincere, helpful, and that my methods are very real and do work. I wish you the best with your TP solution.

From: Bill McNeal
Date: 21-Oct-18




Taking a shot of tequila or good Irish whiskey has always tightened up my groups

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 21-Oct-18




David A.,

No insult indended. I simply made a quip in reply to Elderly OCR's post. I apologize for offending you.

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 21-Oct-18




I’ve seen Jim’s program as he was nice enough to share it with me & its a winner. Now some honest truths. This will work but the amount of Archers who stick with the discipline necessary & doing the work is not high. Jim says 63 days & your panic maybe under control if your Sequence wasn’t completely outta whack in that time frame. Certainly you’ll be on the right track but will probably take longer so don’t get up on time frames!

For most installing a new trusted Sequence is necessary on the Bale. Now imho your real time is about a year to come outta of it. Most guys cheat, shoot long distances too soon, shoot @ targets & are right back where they started.

With Panic you’ve ingrained bad habits & it takes time & work to ingrain new ones. If you do his program when you stumble PM Jim & let him guide you thru your stumbling block. Good Luck

From: David A.
Date: 21-Oct-18




Ok...thx and l hope we can all defeat TP and related such as buck fever for the hunters here...pressure hunting situations may be the severest “final exam”...

From: HedgeHunter
Date: 21-Oct-18




Gud slug of Ky Windage every night does me right.... and “I says”.

HH~

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 21-Oct-18




David A - You wanna get to a point that you just run your Sequence & you’ll like the outcome. Deer, Ten Ring no different you TRUST your Sequence & you’ll like the result!

From: Jim Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 21-Oct-18




I never read anything about “Target panic” as I’m afraid that I’ll catch that dreaded disease!

From: Hico
Date: 21-Oct-18




You just have!!

From: David A.
Date: 22-Oct-18




Liquid Tension, if it works on a massive enraged bugling bull elk at 15 yds. it’s pretty much bullet proof...Pressure like no other in my opinion...

From: Bowguy Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 22-Oct-18




I don’t wanna derail the man’s thread. I hope it works. For the guys who aren’t in/didn’t get in target panic is a brain problem imo. We need to reprogram the brain. If I had someone w this issue I’d tell them to stop shooting. Begin string bow work. No bow shooting. The string bow work would basically be working on perfect form and retraining the brain/body. After much repetition and doing this everyday I’d ease them into shooting. First thing is just drawing (w arrow of course) and not shooting. Than very close blank bale. The idea here is only form and they’d still be working a string bow. They’d eventually shoot targets very close, still working form on a string bow. The idea here is not to test tolerance it’s to rebuild form and a non flinching way of release. The more patience and time the better and this must be done under no pressure. . I’d have em work string bows before breakfast, before bed, after work or school, visualization would come into play as well. There’s no magic fix. If anyone had taken time and done this and it hasn’t worked let me know cause everyone I use it on works. If any doubts return the string bow, an reinforce good habits. Fellows I’m sure would love to “pop a pill” and have it go away. It’s not. It takes retraining through repetition. With a string bow you can draw, anchor, release and follow through. The very close range blank bale starts to bridge the anxiety some feel shooting w actual shooting. Tp does not need to be enhanced by practicing a bad habit. Keep doing the same things and get the same results so stop and retrain. Hope the op has a great idea and stopping shooting isn’t great right now but neither would working on tp issues during bow season. It shoulda been dealt with already. We need to start somewhere. I’ll be honest I know of no way to “half do this”. The way I show this is a matter of at least a month w only string bow. 100 times a day. At least a month, preferably more. The string bow form work needs a commitment and should not be stopped at the blank baling part. Actually should be done fairly regular for months. At best bet you’re looking around the same timeframe as the op’s idea.

From: krakka17
Date: 22-Oct-18




I had to start late as we got married this weekend. I think if I’d have mentioned the word archery in the last week I’d have gotten the boot before the vows. ?? thanks again for th opportunity I’ll stay posted.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 22-Oct-18




I think most people at this stage know it's a mental affliction. That was figured out forty years ago for the most part. It's awful to someone who has it, and the fix may be a variable and not necessarily one size fits all. I don't like to see anyone go through it, but anyone who says they can just fix it has to show how to do it. Jim is trying to do that so I won't interject anything on my own here.

I had a short bout with the yips about thirty years ago, and I had all the experts tell me how to fix it. Yep...just like now. I lucked into what worked for me....read that "for me". My brother-in-law was shooting his compound at the club and ask me to shoot a few shots. I pulled it back and with the let-off I settled into anchor. I shot about a dozen arrows under control. The next day I shot my recurve just fine and had no more issues. Read again...that is "for me"...and likely a hundred other guys wouldn't realize the same outcome.

I sure hope Jim's method works. It's a horrible malady for anyone to put up with and it is all mental.

From: Sam Dunham Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 22-Oct-18




It is all mental coupled with the way the pressure has affected the physical reactions to it.

Buck fever is a little different but confidence in your shooting helps.

Learning to stay calm comes with experience in the field.

Some have the "Nerves" but actually, I hope I never totally get over them.

Deep breathing and waiting on the proper shot is key.

I want to get excited if I don't, what fun is it?

From: Bowguy Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 22-Oct-18




George I hope you weren’t thinking I was dismissing what the op has in mind. I’m actually not. I’m just giving guys that seemed to want to try something an idea that works. Here’s something to think about? Do you think a reaction can be trained? I’m referring to a brain response? Look at the secret serivice, totally even unnatural response because of brain training or reprogramming a brain. Now I’m not saying someone has to be secret service material to succeed I’m just giving one very easy to understand examples how the brain is more powerful than the body. How many guys truly powerlift? Is training only physical or do you need to set your brain that this weight is going up? How many guys w strong brains get real hurt cause they push harder than they should? The brain is powerful. Hand to eye coordination can be practiced. Look at boxers or mma guys. All trained, practiced, perfected responses to what happens. In shooting once you’re form is right, the sight picture is lined up is there not a response? Is it not triggered by the brain even if subconsciously ?? The brain needs to be retrained to respond properly. It can be done. Now here’s the thing tp has been going on and talk about it is always popping up. No one refers to brain/body response and eliminating it. Like I said let guys keep trying the same exact obviously non working things and we’ll continue to talk about it. Retraining the brain is the key. A string bow if done w commitment will help because it is a retraining of only the response from the brain. There’s no bow, no target and no anxiety. Yes there could be some deviation but the brain response issue must be resolved and not just have an archer run around trying all kinds stuff until a magic formula suddenly appears. No magic, we’ve trained the flinch/doubt in. Gotta untrain it. Use the brain

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 22-Oct-18




Well said Bowguy

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 22-Oct-18




Bowguy,

I don't think I could have said it better myself. I tried, but I don't think I did it any better.

:^)

From: Sam Dunham Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 22-Oct-18




Yessir! Very good layperson explanation!

From: Phil
Date: 22-Oct-18




Bowguy .. in layman's terms you've got it pretty much spot on

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 22-Oct-18




What Bowguy is saying is how Koreans start. Hence no TP!

From: David A.
Date: 24-Oct-18




Besides the importance of the brain, some techniques lend themselves to more TP tendency than others. In the opinion of many (and I agree) the Asbell method and related snap shooting methods are examples. And in the opinion of many (and I agree) the Olympic method (s) are much more resistant.

From: Demmer
Date: 24-Oct-18




One thing I have seen with TP and people that can't get over it is almost everyone cannot stay disciplined enough to run a program of any sort. They give up because of lack of instant gratification. Most of the time TP had been bred and fostered for months upon months and won't be fixed in a week or two. It takes a little bit of time and lots of discipline.

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 25-Oct-18




Can't wait to see the results Jim. I will be one of your first patients. I mean customers. No wait, patients because it is a sickness. :)

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 25-Oct-18




I'm eager to hear some results too. So far... some very good progress is being reported--anxiety going down and confidence going up.

Like Demmer (and others) said, the problem will be keeping enough discipline to stay with the regimen--TO THE LETTER. :^)

From: David A.
Date: 25-Oct-18




I think some aspects of TP can be fixed in less than a week. In less than a day. In less than an hour. Now performance anxiety, that is another matter as in buck fever or shooting in front of people, tournament pressure, etc. but just being able to complete a full draw and get to a solid anchor is the first and arguably the most important step and that can be done more readily with certain methods than others.

The explanation is because some of my release methods esp. using my nontechnical releases are very awkward to snap shoot. You're going to get to anchor, that's almost guaranteed. Now you might have TP in aiming or rushing your shot once at anchor...it depends on how we define TP, but there is a lot of protection in these releases.

This aspect frankly has very little to do with the brain and thinking...as partial proof of what I'm saying, look at compound shooters. Even those with so called TP almost always have it in aiming and rushing their shot or punching the release, not in the draw/anchor aspects like traditional archers/bowhunters. True? Of course, there are some exceptions I'm sure just as in almost anything.

I don't blame the human condition, I blame methods...the same applies to accuracy issues. Almost all trad. archers and bowhunters are trying to do something that is not accuracy friendly in the way they shoot. Of course, many people like trad. bows to be difficult, demanding of talent and dedication...they are very happy with the status quo.And if you have TP, that's unfortunate but they will advise you all types of cures when some of the problems are simply because the methods are not user friendly from the get go....like walking a narrow plank suspended 20 stories up. Well, wouldn't it be a lot easier if there was a hand rail, for example?

From: tecum-tha Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 26-Oct-18




It all depends on the archery game you want to play. Some techniques lend themselves better for certain games and others are better for other games. Using releases other than fingers/thumb release is not the answer....

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 26-Oct-18




Pros are worried about preparing the shot. Amateurs are in a hurry to hit the X or whatever their shooting @ . They place no emphasis on preparation & TP is on slow boil until it overtakes them.

Learning to prepare the shot & trusting your Sequence is a necessary mindset change. This should be their ONLY priority after Jim’s Program. Prepare the Shot & stop worrying about results. With the proper preparation you’ll love your results.

From: Phil
Date: 27-Oct-18




"" ...I think some aspects of TP can be fixed in less than a week" ....

That's a pretty strong statement David, do you have any objective evidence to validate that statement?

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 27-Oct-18




Just like with Compounds a new mechanical release or any new archery gadget is generally a cure for 1 to 3 days. Panic will come back until faulty habits are resolved on a Bale & a new trusted Sequence is established.

This is a way to beat panic for the Millionth Time. New Sequence, Back Tension, Bale , & Bridge. Maintain this for the rest of your life. End of Story!

From: CW
Date: 27-Oct-18




Been following this thread and am sure this process will work. I see mention of people who have done this type of process and then go back and start over if issues start to come back.

I wonder if using this process coupled with a non-anticipatory trigger like a clicker would keep it from coming back.

Or is it something that some people,for whatever reason, are just prone to having TP no matter what their sequence is and need to reprogram their brain every now and then.

From: David A.
Date: 27-Oct-18




"Using releases other than fingers/thumb release is not the answer...." Well, all releases use fingers and or thumb as they are attached to the release. Of course, fingers or thumb may not be the triggering component, but that would apply to glove and tab as well.

"a new mechanical release or any new archery gadget is generally a cure for 1 to 3 days."

My releases are nonmechanical and are not gadgets. Nevertheless, even with a mechanical release it pretty much guarantees you will get back to anchor. True?

Phil, the part of TP where you can't get back to anchor can be fixed in a lot less than one week. As in like 5 seconds. Yes, five seconds or less, the very first time you use my releases. I'm using plural because I invented a half dozen. The only way you can't get back to anchor or close to final anchor would be to intentionally sabotage your draw just to prove me wrong.

Compare to glove or tab where many people CANNOT even get to anchor they have TP so bad. With glove or tab many are releasing the shot way before anchor. So a release can help, but again it may not be the complete solution or even a preferred solution by many. The problem with releases heretofore is that must suk for trad bows, anyway. The inventors gave up too soon...

From: David A.
Date: 27-Oct-18




*most*

From: Sam Dunham Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 27-Oct-18




Gimmicks never fix TP, not releases, not clickers. The only thing that gets you back on track is a disciplined shot sequence and ingraining proper shot execution close up, not trying to hit anything. Saying you can fix it in "5 secs" is false!

Work is all that will keep TP at bay and then training to keep you in good control.

Shot triggers and mind triggers and all the gimmicks are at most, a day or two till your mind figures out it is a bandaid.

I am not selling anything or have anything to gain, only the truth.

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 27-Oct-18




So your @ Anchor with TP? Now the Archer will learn drive by shooting your release or cheat the release & develop new problems. Your release as well as any other release ever developed in the history of Archery will not help an Archer with panic.

Compound shooters to lazy to fix Panic correctly are constantly searching for the magic back tension release to cure Panic. It keeps companies in business. Again maybe 1 to 3 days with zero benefit. I’m not insulting your Release personally but guys use them as gadgets to try to fix deeper issues.

It’s the same as the guy who thinks it’s his bow. So he buys another one & for two days it’s the most accurate bow ever. Then reality hits & the same old issue arise & your right back to where he started.

From: David A.
Date: 27-Oct-18




Both of you need to read my statements more closely. I said in so many words a release can almost instantly fix that part of TP where the archer can't even get back to anchor. I did not say a release could by itself fix other aspects of TP. However getting back to anchor is a big step in the right direction for many sufferers of TP.

In fact, one can go to almost any trad. tournament and witness a high percentage of trad archers short drawing and do not get to anchor.

TP is a big subject and there is not just one type of TP, hence not just one solution for all.

From: David A.
Date: 27-Oct-18




Also, there are other reasons to use a release that are not related to TP. But that doesn't mean I'm against tab/glove. In fact my original "release methods" only used tab/glove.

Anyway, a release can help with the short drawing/snap shooting aspects of TP. But then so can other things, such as form work.

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 27-Oct-18




No that’s where you & everyone else who is posting about TP are completely wrong. The only & once again only lasting fix that has been proven is the Bale/ Bridge. No exceptions. It seems we make up scenarios on this forum to fit our own reality.

Step number one which everyone seems to ignore is this. Stop immediately shooting @ a Target, You cannot & will not beat TP shooting the same way that got you in trouble,

The Archer cannot make any progress whatsoever while worrying where’s he is hitting. In fact he’s doing more harm. So your suggestion of adding a release now to existing Panic is just a recipe for disaster. It’s only a gadget that will cause him more problems.

No Psycho Triggers, laying off a day, not shooting thru it, not starting snap shooting cause you can’t hold, not buying a new bow, not releases, not quitting targets & only shoot animal targets etc.

If you went to any accredited Coach their gonna tell ya the same thing. It’s a ton of work but it will get results. Try as we might there are NO shortcuts.

From: Phil
Date: 27-Oct-18




Thank you for the reply David, but with all due respect you havn't answered my question ....

... do you have any objective evidence to validate the statement that some aspects of TP can be fixed in less than a week.

From: David A.
Date: 27-Oct-18




Phil, just my students and the fact in the compound world almost everyone using a release does get back to anchor vs. all the short drawing we see with trad. archers. Again, this doesn't mean the have totally solved their TP, but they will have solved a major aspect of it and that is helpful.

Liquid Tension, there are short cuts in this world. Always have been. One, is knowledge. Another is valid technique.

With respect to archery, I would say human friendly technique. For example, one short cut to accuracy problems is to use a sight. A harder more labor intensive method is to shoot instinctively only. The latter is not human friendly because of the difficult to repeat alignment tolerances as well as "eye-hand coordination".

Of course, many won't want to use a sight on a trad bow. So then we can use the arrow tip, etc. Just examples...

From: David A.
Date: 27-Oct-18




Let me use the analogy of a car engine that won't run properly. Let's say the timing is off, the starter is broken, and the coil needs to be replaced. We fix the one of these, will the car now run properly? No. Was fixing one of the problems helpful? Yes, in the sense we are partly done.

In the case of a car engine, all the issues need to be fixed if we expect it to work properly. Similarly for TP when there are multiple aspects involved. However, in some cases a car engine only has one issue and in some cases that is also true for TP.

Engines and TP are both big subjects and one fix will not necessarily be a complete remedy.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 27-Oct-18




We’ve all got and heard notions about the curing this darn stuff. I believe LT is on the right path with bale and bridge. If folks are willing to do the work, they’ll come out fine.

I am, however, convinced that most target panic suffers MUST learn to hold on target without the anxiety and without the fingers automatically opening up. My drills are designed to retrain the brain to do just that--FIRST. I’m of the opinion we sufferers have to learn to be "comfortable” at full draw before we even advance to shooting any arrows. That’s why my system is heavy on wall drills (anchoring, expanding, keeping tension in the back all the while aiming, then letting down) then, it proceeds into the bale shooting and bridging slowly.

So far, everyone that has reported back can do just that. They ALL can draw, anchor and aim in comfort without any yips biting at their heels. This is in just two weeks. So far…. so good. Confidence, seeing improvement and learning that the system WILL work will keep hope alive and give them the knowledge to keep this damnable stuff at bay along the way.

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 27-Oct-18




@ David A I still respectfully disagree & stand by no shortcuts. One of the underlying themes in Cardinale ‘s Bale / Bridge & Jim’s program is discipline. This discipline is necessary for the program but is also showing the Archer that he is in control & capable if he follows the program.

The last thing either wants introduced is quick fixes or skipping a step. Lack of discipline or a quick fix will lead the Archer to possible accepting less than shots which is the mindset they are trying to defeat.

It took Rod Jenkins 2 yrs to successfully complete the Bridge Program & he is a hell of an Archer. It took me longer & I still everyday do close rangeBale / Bridge Work everyday .Don’t you think Jenkins woulda took a lasting shortcut If he thought there was one?

Instead he went to Len Cardinale who put him through what Jim is doing because it works. Zetabow would tell you the same thing. You are trying in some cases to undo years of bad habits & it takes a total reprogramming.

When these Archers complete Jim’s program they won’t believe how they used to shoot. They’ll realize they knew nothing & now are free to enjoy archery without Panic crippling them. That is their reward for hard but enjoyable work.

Glad to hear the progress being made Jim!

From: jk
Date: 27-Oct-18




TP discussions ALWAYS drift and rant. They're NEVER written concisely. THEY"RE TALKING TO THEMSELVES, mostly ABOUT themselves.

IF THEY WANTED TO BE HELPFUL they'd link to favorite YouTubes.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 27-Oct-18




Rant? You must'a posted in the wrong thread. I haven't seen any rants. Actually, it's been one of the more civil discussions I've seen here for a long time.

As for the YouTube video's, I'm not aware of any that even remotely addresses what's being discussed here.

From: David A.
Date: 27-Oct-18




Another short cut is proper equipment. An example would be bow poundage. Being overbowed can lead to TP. Even having discipline is a short cut. Finding good teachers or TP cures is a short cut vs. just suffering and going it alone.

Jim, there are shortcuts to almost everything in life and the common denominator is often valid knowledge. If your method consists of valid knowledge, then it also is a short cut!

From: Phil
Date: 27-Oct-18




I think this is all very positive.

From: jk
Date: 27-Oct-18




Too much chatter.

Several videos address this.

From: jk
Date: 27-Oct-18




Demmer has enough accomplishment and self discipline to write meaningfully and concisely.

From: Sam Dunham Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 27-Oct-18




Hey John, If you do not like reading this TP thread it is about Jim helping others on a path to get them back on track. We all need to step back and let Jim's thread do what he intended.

I for one will not post anymore and hope people are helped.

From: hunterbob
Date: 27-Oct-18




I have got side tracked with deer season. Have done a couple days of drills with the bow I shoot. I need to pick up a light weight bow to do the drills correct.

From: David A.
Date: 27-Oct-18




Let's ask this creative question. Imagine your bow while being super fast had a draw weight of only one ounce. Let's also imagine the bow had super stabilizers so you could hold it dead steady with no effort. Would TP still be an issue for anyone?

From: Draven
Date: 27-Oct-18




Yes. David I think you are missing the point. If you don’t prioritize you will get nuts/TP from shooting an invidible bow.

From: David A.
Date: 27-Oct-18




I'm not sure, a bow you can hold dead steady for as long as you want with no strain what so ever...?

From: David A.
Date: 27-Oct-18




Basically can you push a button w/o TP under pressure? Just creatively thinking about the various parameters...

From: camodave
Date: 28-Oct-18




All of my shooting flaws disappeared when I took a break for several months, eh.

DDave

From: David A.
Date: 28-Oct-18




Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objective, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say.?..

From: Phil
Date: 28-Oct-18




Guys ... can we all just take a breath for a second and give a little time and space to those guys participating in the trial.

I'm sure you'll all agree, that the last thing we want to do right now, is put doubt or confirmation bias in the minds of those who are progressing through Jim's program.

We all have our opinions as to what TP is and how to fix it, but lets not muddy the waters.

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 28-Oct-18




X2 Phil. I’m also not gonna comment anymore. This is Jim’s program & Jim’s Thread.

From: David A.
Date: 28-Oct-18




Much difference from Len Cardinale's program?

From: Elderly OCR
Date: 28-Oct-18




"Basically can you push a button w/o TP under pressure?"

Everyone would be a stone cold sniper if this could be done by anyone.

From: Missouribreaks
Date: 28-Oct-18




Gun hunters and crossbow hunters have target panic too, has to be between the ears, from either anxiousness or excitement. " Buck fever" has been around forever.

From: David A.
Date: 28-Oct-18




Taking human lives, having your life at risk is a lot different than tournament archery...or even deer hunting.

I believe part of the problem with many TP sufferers is that there are too many things involved in their shot sequence. Alternatively, many don't even have a shot sequence or a poorly ingrained one. Under pressure the system doesn't perform or performs out of synch.

In tournament style sequences, you can shoot a lot of arrows and have time to moderate the pressure in many tournaments. In bow hunting scenarios, you may only get one shot in a season and it may in a very time limited situation...Therefore, for hunting I do not recommend a ten step or even a five step type of sequence.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 01-Nov-18




Couple more days and the first guys will begin to shoot their first arrows. I'm anxiously awaiting some reports over the weekend--with my fingers crossed.

:^)

From: Homey88
Date: 02-Nov-18




I'm anxiously following this thread. I need to build a new shot sequence asap. TP has ruled my shooting long enough. Jim I hope your system works would love to try your method.

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 04-Nov-18




Well... I just got my first report following the first phase of the drills. Day 22 is when the first arrows are shot. Here's the report.

["Done my drills shot felt good was pulling when the shot broke good follow through."]

Great news--so far.

From: The Whittler
Date: 04-Nov-18




Jim, good for you and very generous. Hope it works out for everyone.

From: Bowlim
Date: 04-Nov-18




"Jamie,

I honestly don't think it would affect you at all if you use the compound."

Compounds don't change anything other than you can have less physical strain, but most people shoot more bow than they can handle, easier bow just means the shoot a higher marked poundage. Of course there are a lot of older archers, or otherwise challenged, who are up against a wall like 40 pounds they can't legally drop below.

Releases can solve target panic but only if your only problem is a conscious triggering thought, and you use a release to fire with back tension.

It is a medically known fact that not all yipps are psych, in fact psych is mostly not the problem either. Aging can lead to yipps, or a motor control loss that looks like them. Yipps/TP are not a psych problem in that there is something abnormal about the owner's brain. There could be, and it could cause them, but the normal case is a person who is entirely normal mentally. The normal case of TP is just a process problem. The common way of teaching archery almost guaranteed people would get TP as it emphasized a quick result with no serious attempt to master the process. This helped pro shops sell bows, but over the longer time leads to people getting TP. The normal sales process in mainstream archery is you go to a pro shop, they put something in your hands and get you on target, that afternoon. That was good for sales and good for becoming a 2 season hunter, it was bad for learning to shoot correctly.

From: David A.
Date: 05-Nov-18




"Releases can solve target panic but only if your only problem is a conscious triggering thought, and you use a release to fire with back tension."

Short drawing and releasing waay before anchor is uncommon with rleases. Not so with glove or tab...additionally, there are many ways to "release a release" other than back tension...

From: David Mitchell
Date: 06-Nov-18




I just want to say that I spent a most valuable couple of hours with Jim Casto, Jr. yesterday. I have known Jim for many years and made some great hunting trips with him. Jim's heart is truly in archery and he really cares about others who struggle with a problem he has had lots of experience with. He is always ready to help. Thanks, buddy. :o)

From: dean
Date: 06-Nov-18




There are of course things that an individual can do to control TP. For myself, the goal was to get it to a point where it was not a constant issue. For myself, the phycological burden was lifted when I learned to shoot without forcing everything and not beating myself up over a miss. A trick that old classical musicians use, I am one of them, use when they make a mistake is to mentally say "How untypical of me, accidents will happen." Then they precede to go through that same phrase until all of the dysfunctional tension is gone and the correct notes come out as a matter of natural incident.

From: yohon Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 06-Nov-18




Good to hear David, Jim is certainly one of the good guys!!! Keeping an eye on this thread.....

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 08-Nov-18




Don't come any better than Jim. And his son as well. Both are great archers and hunters and eat and sleep this stuff.

From: Geezer
Date: 08-Nov-18




It's awful to old AND ignorant. But I don't even know what target panic is. Would some explain it? Heck, I might have it and don't know it. I do know I miss a lot.

From: Geezer
Date: 08-Nov-18




It's awful to old AND ignorant. But I don't even know what target panic is. Would some explain it? Heck, I might have it and don't know it. I do know I miss a lot.

From: David Mitchell
Date: 08-Nov-18




Basically it is an inability to control the shot sequence. It affects different people in different ways. Some can't get to full draw before having the overwhelming urge to release the string. It can also cause one to freeze at full draw and not be able to release, not be able to get on target without releasing too soon. I'm glad you don't know what it is. It isn't just missing, it is being unable to control your shot and release when you want to.





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