Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Min draw weight in Michigan

Messages posted to thread:
David Janssen 09-Oct-18
Stickbow Felty 09-Oct-18
ground hunter 09-Oct-18
Traxx 09-Oct-18
RymanCat 09-Oct-18
Therifleman 09-Oct-18
Burly 09-Oct-18
Burly 09-Oct-18
kginrick 09-Oct-18
George D. Stout 09-Oct-18
grizz 09-Oct-18
deerhunt51 09-Oct-18
Jon Stewart 10-Oct-18
westrayer 10-Oct-18
westrayer 10-Oct-18
K Cummings 10-Oct-18
K Cummings 10-Oct-18
Burly 10-Oct-18
Burly 10-Oct-18
Therifleman 10-Oct-18
Therifleman 10-Oct-18
oldhunter1942 10-Oct-18
K Cummings 10-Oct-18
JusPassin 10-Oct-18
Babbling Bob 10-Oct-18
George D. Stout 10-Oct-18
Jon Stewart 10-Oct-18
gluetrap 10-Oct-18
K Cummings 10-Oct-18
ground hunter 10-Oct-18
Gvdocholiday 10-Oct-18
barebow 10-Oct-18
dean 10-Oct-18
boatbuilder 10-Oct-18
Jon Stewart 10-Oct-18
col buca 10-Oct-18
Jon Stewart 10-Oct-18
Linecutter 10-Oct-18
Traxx 10-Oct-18
Linecutter 11-Oct-18
K Cummings 11-Oct-18
babysaph 11-Oct-18
barebow 11-Oct-18
NOVA7 11-Oct-18
ground hunter 11-Oct-18
NOVA7 11-Oct-18
gluetrap 11-Oct-18
From: David Janssen
Date: 09-Oct-18




Just wondering if Michigan has a minimum draw weight for deer hunting?

From: Stickbow Felty
Date: 09-Oct-18




Michigan has no minimum.

From: ground hunter
Date: 09-Oct-18




which is a shame,,,,,,,, and for the guys who shoot light light weight, limit your shots and distance..... I know 2 trad guys in the UP, that should stick to cardboard, for the deer they have asked me to help track,,,,,,,, no more, told them to lift some weights, and learn to shoot something with some power, or limit your shot distance,,,,,,,

by the way, my dog is an excellent tracker, some guys do not get it

From: Traxx
Date: 09-Oct-18




and for the guys who shoot light light weight, limit your shots and distance.I think that is good advice,regardless of the weight..

From: RymanCat
Date: 09-Oct-18




Welp if you never wounded an animal then how would one learn to trail and recover?

I always welcomed trails its a learning action and it has nothing to do with a light bow.

Did you check your buddy's broad heads to see how sharp they were. I would have.

So if the guy or guys ask you to help trail again ground hunter will you turn them down?

If you turn them down then I'm glad your not my buddy if I needed help to trail. LOL

I know when I was young and early on I would take my arrow to a buddy that was a master tracker and he would say he would help or not. He taught me so much and incidentally I had heavy bows it made no matter.

Just saying take it as it comes. I'd reconsider to help him only because its an education for everyone. Teach him by the tracking don't bitch him out.

Just some thoughts.

From: Therifleman
Date: 09-Oct-18




I believe the OPs question was answered correctly by Stickbow Felty.

From: Burly
Date: 09-Oct-18




That seems to be the trend now a days. Full grown men trying to shoot as light of a bow as possible. I have read threads on other sites where guys are asking is 30 - 35lbs enough.

From: Burly
Date: 09-Oct-18




If that's the case I heading to the woods tomorrow with my son's old Bear Cub. Not

From: kginrick
Date: 09-Oct-18




You do not really even need the bow . Just toss the arrow at them .

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 09-Oct-18




It's none of your damn business what others want to shoot as long as it's legal in their state. You have no clue what they have going on in their lives or their age...or physical status. The minimum weights in most states were established before many of you he-men were born.

From: grizz
Date: 09-Oct-18




George x2

From: deerhunt51
Date: 09-Oct-18




Did any of these experts that say a 35# bow is insufficient ever consider that a 35# bow can be drawn to 55# and a 55# bow can be shot drawn to only 35# ?

From: Jon Stewart
Date: 10-Oct-18




My wife killed her first deer with a 32# long bow here in Michigan. Hit them in the right spot and lighter bows will work.

From: westrayer
Date: 10-Oct-18




Funny how guys that only shoot light weights get upset about guys that don't.

Competent people shooting lighter bows can be successful IF everything goes right.

Just because you shoot a heavy weight bow doesn't make you an automatic deer killer.

I stand by my signature on other sites... Shoot as much weight as you can with accuracy.

From: westrayer
Date: 10-Oct-18




I draw a comparison with rifles. The lowly .22 LR is a favorite of poachers who shoot deer at night. Up close and in the head. Yet no ethical hunter would consider the use of such.

From: K Cummings
Date: 10-Oct-18




"Funny how guys that only shoot light weights get upset about guys that don't."

What's even funnier is your perception of things.

The only negative responses on this thread regarding draw weight, are posted by people who apparently don't like others hunting with lighter draw weights.

"Michigan has no minimum" - Stickbow Felty

"which is a shame..., ... lift some weights, and learn to shoot something with some power..., ...some guys do not get it." - ground hunter

"That seems to be the trend now a days. Full grown men trying to shoot as light of a bow as possible." "If that's the case I heading to the woods tomorrow with my son's old Bear Cub. Not" - Burly

"You do not really even need the bow . Just toss the arrow at them." - kginrick

"I draw a comparison with rifles. The lowly .22 LR is a favorite of poachers who shoot deer at night. Up close and in the head. Yet no ethical hunter would consider the use of such." - westrayer

I don't see one post where anyone is saying anything negative about shooting heavier weights.

KPC

From: K Cummings
Date: 10-Oct-18




Stickbow Felty:

I didn't mean to imply your post was negative.

Your post was the factual one that all the others were in response to.

KPC

From: Burly
Date: 10-Oct-18




Guaranteed argument starters, Draw weight, broadheads, type of bows, arrows, camo or not,religion,politics, best hounds, best bird dogs, Ford, Dodge or Chevy.

From: Burly
Date: 10-Oct-18




Dang it forgot APRs.

From: Therifleman
Date: 10-Oct-18




I agree George. What I can't understand is why a heavy bow proponent would even open a minimum draw weight thread if not to start an argument. Maybe they were worried that Michigan s minimum was more than 50 some #. I see a lot of guys getting heavy bows back to 24 or 25" gaining nothing over a bow that pulls less and that would allow them to get back fully. Who is kidding who? Draw weight is only the amount of force necessary for the archer to draw the bow back--- bow designs have advanced to the point that there are many 40# bows that will outperform ma

From: Therifleman
Date: 10-Oct-18




Many 50# bows. If you like heavy bows, by all means use them. I don't care what style of bow, or weight, or where the other guy puts his fingers on the string. This sport is about personal satisfaction and hunting is about making presice ethical shots-- i can tell you that " light" bows will do the job in that department. Again--- all he asked was, was there a minimum weight.

From: oldhunter1942
Date: 10-Oct-18




GeorgeX3

From: K Cummings
Date: 10-Oct-18

K Cummings's embedded Photo



An old Apache friend of mine told me he never hunts with anything less than 60# @ 28".

Here he is at full draw.

:)

KPC

From: JusPassin Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 10-Oct-18




KPC, that's good. I've seen that during league shooting on more than one occasion.

Had one guy who was proud of his 50 pound bow and he'd whip it back, then creep forward till his release which was about at 22 inches of draw.

From: Babbling Bob Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 10-Oct-18




x2 George.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 10-Oct-18




In a day and age that we are losing hunters, literally by the thousands, we need to work on keeping kids (our future) in the sport, and bringing in new ones. The minimum weight was done for several reasons; to allow kids, women, and all beginners to get into bowhunting with a reasonable expectation of proper use, and to use a minimum that has been proven in the field over many years. The minimums weren't just pulled out of a big silk hat, they were done by surveys of bowhunters who used those weights in the field to develop a starting point. To those of you who think it's too low, tell us what you would do that wouldn't restrict opportunities to young folks, ladies, older folk, etc. Being regulation-happy has already put this whole dang country in a mess.

From: Jon Stewart
Date: 10-Oct-18




Kevin, don't you hunt with that guy over by Alpena?, lol

From: gluetrap
Date: 10-Oct-18




again what George said.

From: K Cummings
Date: 10-Oct-18




Jon:

Yes, but he's not Apache. I think he might be Polish.

KPC

From: ground hunter
Date: 10-Oct-18




George I will answer your question and I can only go by my own observations. I have no bias otherwise. I understand no minimum with the new compounds of today, and the energy they put out.

A 25lb compound, with the right arrow, and coc head, and again close distance lets say 15 yards, would be fine for lets say a 10 year old or something......

However I think it is irresponsible, to use that same weight with a traditional style bow. I believe in the bows I have had, and set ups, I would not shoot below 30lbs and at that, I would be close....

I see too many archers today, at the shoots, trying to extend their range with light set ups, but for targets that is fine, but not for live game.....

I currently shoot about 45lbs,,,, to me that is light, and my maximum distance I would shoot with my arrow and coc, is about 15 yards,,,,,,,,, I want a dead animal, and close shots......

that's all I have to say on the subject........

We all do what is legal, but you must also do what is ethical, and be honest with yourself on your own ability,,,,,,,

From: Gvdocholiday
Date: 10-Oct-18




Minimum draw weight regs are rediculous.

Until they develop a system to take draw length into account, they should just do away with them nation wide.

From: barebow
Date: 10-Oct-18




Interesting how many people ask questions here, when if they go to the particular state's wildlife website they will find the correct and true answers to a host of FAQ's.

From: dean
Date: 10-Oct-18




For light bows and shorter draws with lighter bows, a straight flying arrow and a super penetrating broadhead like a Hunter's Head can really help. A heavy clumsy flying arrow will not get as good of penetration as a good flying 400 grain arrow with a good head. 35 pounds at 26" will do the job on deer, providing the arrow is right.

From: boatbuilder
Date: 10-Oct-18




Boy this turned ugly in a hurry. As I remember and maybe an oldtimer from Michigan like Ron LaClair can chime in back in the late 60's it was 40 lbs ( I vaguely remember that number) but I knew an older woman that has killed more deer than I ever will and she did it with a 39 lb bow but don't think it was any more than 35 lbs at her draw length and she use to kick my butt at the target range with that Bear Grizzly,

From: Jon Stewart
Date: 10-Oct-18




No might be about it Kevin!!! You heading over there for a few days.

From: col buca
Date: 10-Oct-18




George , you hit the nail on the head twice .

From: Jon Stewart
Date: 10-Oct-18




boatbuilder: Alma Blondell was one woman that killed way more deer than her husband and a lot of other guys.

From: Linecutter
Date: 10-Oct-18




What I find interesting are the people who dispute the ethics of shooting deer with light weight bows because, they don't think it can be done, it is irresponsible to do so, or the bow doesn't produce enough energy to have an arrow push through a deers body. I call it the Howard Hill effect. There has never been a study I have ever seen, let alone read, showing exactly how much force/pressure is "ACTUALLY" needed for an arrow with a cut on contact broadhed, to completely traverse a deers chest cavity, and stick out the other side. If you got it I WANT to see it, not your speculation on it. Anything beyond the energy to do that, is over kill for a deer, which isn't a bad thing, but not really needed. Once that broadhead (not the whole arrow) exits the opposite side of the chest cavity, ALL the damage it can do, has been done, it can't do any more. You want to shoot heavy weight bows go for it. I have normally shot 65#-68# draw weight bows at my draw length, yeah when I started this 30 years ago, I was caught up in the Howard Hill effect, and everyone I knew saying you had to shoot at least 60#, Compound or Traditional (even though 40# is legal here). Perpetuation of the Urban Legend, what people tell you, not backed up with facts. We aren't talking Bison, Moose, Brown Bear, Elk, or the African Big Five, we are talking Deer. How much energy DOES IT TAKE for that arrow to traverse a deer's chest cavity with a cut on contact broadhead? UNTIL someone can legitimately answer that question, quit telling people they shouldn't use light weight bows! Because YOU don't have a clue how much energy/pressure it actually does take to do it, to prove they shouldn't. You are GUESSING. THERE IS more than enough evidence to show it can be done cleanly and ethically with light weight bows and has been for years. It just doesn't fit the Urban Legend that most want to believe and pass on. Most people want an entrance and exit hole (most of the arguement for heavy bows), BUT there are still people out there who DON"T want an arrow to have a complete pass through with the broadhead. They want the arrow's broadhead to stay in the deer to continue doing damage inside the chest cavity as the deer runs, and that is what they believe, partly because that was what they were told. Not rumors, I have talked to them personally. Who knows for sure? Me I want an entrance and exit hole, better blood trail, but that is me. I have been shown though, it doesn't take the poundage to make that happen, as I was first lead to believe. DANNY

From: Traxx
Date: 10-Oct-18




Funny thing is,,,,,

That Same Howard Hill,that you attribute to the "Howard Hill Effect"stated,,that a 40 lb bow and 450 grn arrow were not only sufficient for Deer,,but Elk and Moose as well..It was stated,in a letter,concerning his opinion regarding minimum bow weights for hunting regulations..It has been posted on here,several times through the years..

From: Linecutter
Date: 11-Oct-18




That maybe, but most people have read that he shot Heavy bows and that was mainly what he was known for and promoted. That is what is what people saw, read in the books about him, and thought they had to do. Your comment is the same basic thing as when they say Fred Bear promoted the Pod. It was an obscure comment and not what was truly seen by Fred Bear's actions. Howard Hill may have said it, but that is not what he promoted with his actions. DANNY

From: K Cummings
Date: 11-Oct-18




That's the plan Jon. Jerry's camp is always a great time.

KPC

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 11-Oct-18




Well I shoot 52-55 lbs but tore my rotator cuff and an now shooting 35 lbs. I killed a buck with it 2 weeks ago but it was close. I could have shot a crossbow but figured I could kill one with 35 lbs. What is funny is that I see a lot of old bows from the 50's,60,s and 70,s that are 35-45 lbs. I guess deer were easier to kill back then. Anyway it can be done. I also see guys shooting over 50 lbs short draw so much they are really only shooting 40 lbs. I still think shot placement is the most important thing. my dog finds all dead deer.

From: barebow
Date: 11-Oct-18




I think we should get "Forged in the Fire" to shoot different arrows into their torso dummies. If Dug says "It twill keel" good to go.

From: NOVA7
Date: 11-Oct-18




Last halloween day using a 55lbs bow and a single bevel suitable for hunting elephant. I shot a buck maybe 110lbs at less than 10 yards and got horrible penetration.

From: ground hunter
Date: 11-Oct-18




I personally would not use a single bevel on deer, makes no sense

From: NOVA7
Date: 11-Oct-18




A lot of guys like them. Can't kill a deer to dead but I went back to zwickys. One pack for less money than one of the other heads.

From: gluetrap
Date: 11-Oct-18




how soon we forget! when mr. bear and others were fighting to get bow seasons in this country the ones who opposed it all said the same thing, regardless of poundage, "SHAMFULL WOUNDER OF GAME" was their battle cry. still saying it in Europe. they still don't have a bow season jmo.





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