So I’m lucky enough to own some of Jerry Hills bows and was introduced to him while back by a buddy of mine from the great white north and a leatherwaller And any ASL guy knows who Jerry and Dave Miller are Recently Dave’s making bows with the advise and help of Jerry the way he wants them and thinks they should be done So the first 3 are done and I was sent pictures out of pride of ownership and the knowledge that I’m a ASL slut,,,really that’s the only word I can be called when it comes to these Hill style bows,,and also because what #2 and #3 “The Blood”are in between ASL shooter’s I’m sure will know Howard’s bow “White Eagle” and his wife Elizabeth Hills bow “Silver Fawn” Big pieces of American archery history to some of us I know can name 20 or so off the top of my head ; ) Anyway there at Jerry’s in Alabama to get signed and tested and will be going back to Dave soon for the finish and there leaving the USA to go to there rightful owner So I just figured I’d post some pics from Jerry’s

Jerry can still fling the cedar to ; ) And if I know my buddy there 70# or over

NICE!

those look really nice, however, as one longbow slut to another, keep your slutty fingers off of my bows. I just hate it how longbow sluts grope and fondle my bows, even compound shooters get that buggy eyed look when they get their perverted fingers on my bows. I would like fondle a couple of yours anyway. I fondled everyone of my bows yesterday about a hundred times each, I shot my butt off, now my pants won't stay up.

Very, very nice. You're right, Jerry knows how to build a longbow.

I see those have the trademark narrow Jerry Hill limbs as well.

Cool bows.......I had a Jerry Hill ASL Stalker.......like a dummy I sold it. It was an excellent shooter.

I made little mistake in my post The Bow without the leather on the grip is my friends #2,75#/26” and the one with the leather is Jerry personal bow #1 My buddy has #3 still being made There’s some others in the forms for guys to,,I won’t say price but I think there really reasonable,,if interested ask Dave Miller I’m fighting with the wife now ; ) She’s getting tigger in my old age or I’m getting softer but I’m fighting the good fight

White Eagle on the left. My bow on the right.

Can’t wait for the review

Yea get it yet??

; )

Little great white north stump’n hunh

I’m gona try to do little of that myself today,,,,gota go out in the back 40 and grab a Christmas tree

@ MOUNTAIN? Highly confused???? Photos of Your Bows are not showing up? Anybody got any ideas of how to see the PURDEE BOWS?

There ya go Jim That picture second from last is Rootys bow at Jerry Hills house next to one of Howard’s personal bows

Nothing like it. Not even close. Rooty

Looks great.

Ok How’d ya get the blood dot on your arrows Air brush?

Hey Rooty,

In the close up the limb tip pic it appears the belly lamb fades out to near zero about 4 inches from the tip. Am I seeing that correctly? Thanks, Chuck

Leaf spring construction. Starts out with 4 lams one fades out 12" down from the tip and one more is paper thin at the tip. New meaning of smooth draw for me with no report back at the finish.

Good to know, thanks Cameron.

Nice classy looking bow.

I am not a scientist. Miller built it to Hill know how.

How would you rate the Miller to the Ash bow?

Ash off Dean

"Ash off Dean", please don't put a capital letter when taking cheap shots at me, that 'Dean' is not me. I asked an honest question, I thought that you preferred hardwoods and was curious what the differences were. Am I to take it that you were not impressed with the total performance or are you ready to go with all bamboo cores? I know that we are all suppose to celebrate everyones new bow, I often wonder if the wanting is better than the having, so I am curious about total performance of any bow.

Hey Larry,,,,what’s pal? I’m sure Rooty was being a wise ass,,them Canucks are all funny guys ; ) I know for a fact he likes that fancy stick a lot and he’s own them all from the best of the best Which brings me to OCR,,,,Dave Miller and Jerry Hill got down tight on the stack let alone following Howard Hills design If there was a question I’m sure either bowyer would answer any questions There both nice guys and class acts who are also archers that do it out of love and passion Drop them any email

Oh yea Larry,,,you’d be interested I saved and abused stick,,,a rare one,,,,,and I’m sending it home to be reborn!! Nate is gona give it new life,,baptis it with a new name and send it back to the holy land where I will bring it up the mountain to its rightful place ; ) It’s right up your alley

Have had a leaf spring bow from Jerry. The problem is, I am curious about what these would be like at a comparable length and poundage to the bows that I currently have. All bows function differently at different draw lengths and poundages, with longbows that sweet spot is important. While am I am really curious about these, I have some really good bows that it would need to go up against. The chances of shooting one to satisfy my curiosity is not likely going to happen. What the heck I can only shoot just so many bows. I hope Rooty does well with his.

Over the years I've a couple of Jerry Hill longbows. I could have swore that the belly lam he called a tiller lamination but could be wrong. Any bow that is a light a draw weight say under 60# should be smooth as in very little stacking towards the end of the draw. When you get over that weight it seems to me that is where a bowyers experience comes into the equation.

I have an old Longbow Mag. from early 80's as I recall that Fred Anderson used to pen a column in it answering letters from budding bowyers and experienced bowyers. In it he wrote that to make a really smooth drawing bow use a thick core of whatever wood you choose and a thinner lam of glass, with the core wood using a running taper of like .002" per inch. I'll try to find the exact article to quote from. I've a Mller Sage that is 58#@27" and I just can't imagine a bow being smoother on the draw than that is. The Sage is supposedly built identical to what Hill used in his laminated wood bows. It is interesting to not though that the belly lam of osage is extremely tapered so maybe something to that thin taper thing on the belly. Keepem sharp

Howard consently changed and experimented with designs,,,there was no set way it always change Between John Shultz and Bob Lee teaching Dave Miller and Jerry Hill over seeing the bows I don’t think I’d even question the design and tiller of there copy of a Howard Hill design Just my opinion I’ve had a couple ASL’s

Never said asking a question or somebody’s opinion was wrong Just my 2 cent on it I know a lot went into these bows on all sides

66"75#@26

I was asked by an experienced ASL shooter why my bows tend to float on target after release. I know to make that happen and my two favorite bowyers JD and Nate know how to make that happen as well. Was thinking that maybe these Miller/Hill bows may have that follow through balance as well. I cannot know for sure, but anyone who has ever had a bow that has that kind of follow through will know what I am referring to.

Yes Dean, absolutely know what you mean. My Schulz’s and Sunset Hills do that, not my other D longbows.

Will see how this one pans out. At least the bowyer new to put more than 3 lazy lams in it.

Same bowyers Expedition, 60@27. Concave/convex carbon backed model. 3 lams lazy, or 3 lams light?

Rubbing is racing. #8 of 12 is a short short draw bow should be fun. One of the Parting Shot series

Is that one of the 60”’s Rooty? If it is, a friend of mine owns it.

Yes its coming up this way today I think.

Cool. Tyson is one of the good guys. Congrats, that’s a fine bow.

Thanks. I like little stump pullers. I have some Rempps like that. Rooty

That’s true Elderly. I quick glanced and thought we were still referring to “Blood”.

Not sure what your counting. The blood has 4 starting up the limbs with 3 thick ones behind. Parting shot has 5. Expedition shown has 3. I was ribbing the sunset Hill bows. I've never had one so I have no first hand knowledge. I have one more Miller/Jerry hill on order which will be my last until I have to drop the draw weight. I am sold on the leaf spring bow that I have and the chase is over. Second to The Blood is my maple American.

When you posted the pic of the Parting Shot, I didn’t catch that it was a different bow. That’s what I was counting. If you’re curious to the Sunset Hill, here it is. Same draw weight as the Expedition. If I could only keep one, the sun would be setting for the Expedition. Nate’s bows are truly exceptional and if I could only keep one bow, it would be the Sunset Hill. Fortunately, there’s room for both here, so I won’t have to make that decision...

I was told that all ASL longbows shoot from 145 fps to 155 fps, no matter who built them or how they were built. This same person told my wife, "I don't get pass throughs and you don't either."

My Expedition and Hawk from Dave miller are 3 lams, concave convex. My Schulz "Parting Shot" 1 of 12 is 5 lams. OCR, recheck your facts.

Arne

Dean, that’s kind of hilarious if not sarcastic answer.

Draven, The guy thought he was the all it of all things. He shot a Hoyt with 900 grain arrows, had a three inch shorter draw than he thought he had, terrible arrow flight, and was being a pain in the butt. A compound hunter ran back to my car/trailer, got our deer cart, field dressed my wife's pass through shot deer, and hauled it out and loaded in my trailer. I didn't know until I got back to my car, then Mr. know it all came up with his Cadillac 4 wheel drive to honor us with his presence. The know it all was just being his obnoxious self and was mad about people walking around at ten in the morning. Three days later that same compound guy called my wife to ask if he could use the deer cart, I was hunting alone, no cell phone. The same territory hog that claimed that he 8 tree stands, so there would be no place left for others to hunt, got really mad at the compound hunter, he shot a pretty nice buck and it went down about 100 yards from the know it all territory hog. he told the compound guy that carts shouldn't be legal on public land because they had wheels. The know it all made a serious mistake, he left all of his tree stands in. Rule is one week after the season they have to be out on public land. Never saw him this year. Not being sarcastic. Some people do not get much speed out of ASLs and some do. I never know for sure if it is the bow or it is the shooter, but i am always curious to know if a bow has respectable cast or not.

Oh, sorry side note. The compound guy is now the recurve guy and soon to be another longbow guy and he is still using my deer cart. He has been asking a ton of questions about longbow performance. If he deeps it up, I may just give a longbow that shoots faster than the recurve that I gave him.

Dean and NaterD, would you say that those Sunsets you're shooting are lazy? Just curious. :)

Second hand information is just that. I've heard of 3 that like them and 5 that sold them as fast as they've got them due to lack of preformance. Not all bows please everyone. I sure know that.

I have nothing, absolutely nothing, against other bows I own or have owned. Love ‘em all. They all have good qualities. Some are quieter than others, some are faster than others, some just seem easier to shoot than others. Some quarterbacks have great accuracy, some have great legs, and some have great minds. Aaron Rodgers does all 3 great. Sunset Hills are the Aaron Rodgers of longbows. They do EVERYTHING great. Quiet, fast, and easy to shoot.

And not that it makes or breaks a hunting tool, but it’s easier on the eyes as well ;)

Rooty are you referring to the White Eagle copies that were for sale? I heard of a couple of those went up for sale with very few shots taken with them.

My 'sunset' is plenty quick, smooth, quiet and accurate. I have had a number sluggish bows, they make great gifts to newbies, I just have to include a fast flight string and very light weight arrows so they have good enough cast. There are some longbows out there that would make better walking sticks than hunting bows.

What's the purpose of fiberglass decoration in the core other than to slow it down?

I know my sunsets aren't lazy! I have a granma with Leaf spring construction ? That I feed it alpo !! ??

Theres only one place to get a 2 step, leaf spring Howard Hill design bow. For those of you that have attacked me for using Jerry Hill tackle. Bring it. NM makes the best one step of his own design where core doesn't come into play. My Legend is good but has z harsh finish if you don't hold it right. There a lot that try and copy his.

I've read this thread over and over and frankly I am not getting at all what you all are talking when talking about a leaf spring design in a limb core? Is it reverse tapers or is it a belly taper that doesn't go all they way to the end of the tips? I've owned like I said over they years a couple of Jerry Hill bows and as I recall they were both over 65lbs draw at 28". They didn't seem any better nor worse really than any other Hill style bow I've owned over the years. They most definitely weren't exceptional.

I have 2 JET longbows, a mis marked JET that according to the website is actually a Bison model as I measure the set back and I have a Dave Wallace Special. In my opinion both bows are right up there with ANY Hill style bow I've owned or shot bar none. Cast and carry through to burn so to speak. I also want to know what floating on the target is? Does that just mean you hand doesn't bump or move after release? Also years ago when I owned probably 2 doz. Howard Hill Archery longbows of varying poundage but most over 70lbs. Craig said that the extra laminations he didn't think imparted any degree more of smoothness or speed to the bow. His reasoning was you're just adding weight to the limb when extra laminations are involved so he figured how could that make the limb recover quicker? He did state the extra lamination or two just made for a more stable limb core in case one of the lamination(s) used in the core was suspect as to its integrity. My Wallace Special is 3 lams of bamboo and just really smokes an arrow and has very good manners for a Hill Style bow when doing so.

Also another that has kind of bothered me is when folks refer to a straight end longbow as an American Semi Longbow. You know the deep cored type of bow with narrow tips. In Hunting the Hard Way it is explained what a semi longbow is as compared to the English version. Basically a wider flatter limb design as in not as stacked of a core( I am thinking thickness of the core here) as I read it, with slightly wider limb tips for added stability when using heavy hunting arrows. I used to have Craig make my bows way back when with a 14" riser, 1.125" or maybe a bit wider depending on the draw weight, at the fades to 7/16" or a bit less at the limb tips and without the tip wedges. I would still use a padded f.f. string on them with no undue stress or damage. I always had a 4.25" grip length on the belly side too and peaked so it fit right in to the crease of my hand where the meat of the thumb pad sits. Ok thats it. keepem sharp

Miller makes his own and JS influenced bows. He also makes Jerry Hill / John Lee influenced bows to Howard Hills design with some supplied equipment. At present the real deals are made there.

I've heard you have a big collection of dog turds Might not be the bow.

Ok what does that mean? Collection of dog turds and whom are you referring to?

I am the only one out side of Jerry Hill who has The Blood. I hope it says that. I like having all the fun and the rest are kept wondering.

Cameron, I’m sure the “Blood” is a fine bow. I’ve owned/own most all of Dave’s offerings, including Hawks and Expeditions, and they are all fine bows. But you aren’t doing Dave or Jerry any favors with your comments. To have an affinity for a bow is great. Insulting other archers and bowyers certainly leaves an impression with others, but not in a good way. You’ll get a lot more bees with honey than you will with vinegar.

Hey if you have the only blood . Well ,,,, I guess they must be great ! But enough of this childish banter .

I entered this thread hoping to get an honest response and report on a very expensive bow. Now, I don't give a damn and I don't want one.

I'm just getting back into shooting the past few months and have acquired what I think are stellar examples of the longbow. Just ordered a Wild Fork all bamboo Natural by Van Norman, a t/d Osage Royal, a Sunbear rec. and I have 2 JETS from a couple of months or so ago etc.etc. Oh yea what I consider the King of them all so far is a Miller Sage. My point is this I hear all manner of terms tossed around when it comes to folks liking there longbows of the Hill style. All romantic visions of what ever the bow should be. Truth is most all of them are pretty decent in a paticular persons hands. Looking at the Jerry Hill/Miller collaboration no doubt if Dave Miller has his hand in it is undoubtedly better than the Jerry Hill bows previous. I've owned a couple back in the day like I said and they were no better nor worse than others of its type.

The Wallace Special for instance is his top of the line model, I think called the supreme or something. Well my other mis marked JET is BETTER. It is a bit longer and a bit heavier in draw weight but not by much but it has what Howard would call, cast and carry through to burn. I mean it just flat out throws an arrow and it doesn't matter if the b.h. is low or high, arrow flight is the same and the bow behave's itself. Now I ask you how can a bow be better than that!

Hmmmmm...

I don't see too many of Nate's bows for sale, the few I have seen go for pretty expensive prices. I know MANY who have them and would never sell them.

All bows coined ASL do not feel the same that is for sure. The first time I bought and shot a backset Schulz made Tembo (that I'm sure was refinished by Craig Ekin) even as inexperienced as I was I was like WOW! Huge difference from the bulk produced ASL I was shooting.

I think some are also trying to compare apples to oranges.

A backset bow will not feel the same as a strigfollow bow all things being equal.

Nate designed his bow to be a durable glassed hunting bow with the feel of a selfbow or natural at the shot. His design with short handle, maximum working limb, exceptional tiller, and very lighweight and skinny tips lacks nothing in speed compared to other stringfollows... all things like string type being equal. It excels at the feel and does everything else it should very well.

I shoot mine with a super heavy weight B50 string and cast and speed is not lacking.

I've shot other bows including one of Dave Miller's leaf spring white Eagles. Not my thing. Doesn't mean they are bad, just not what I prefer.

If you like your "blood" grand, but your not doing anyone a favor by bashing other "well respected" bowyers or their products becasue they don't do what you think they should, even if they were not designed for your expectations.

A little while ago you were saying that bamboo cores are the worst thing ever for a Hill bow...

I don't know this Root fella but he is opinionated that is for sure and mildly insulting. I've never owned a Sunset Hill but like I said 2 JET longbows and Miller Sage with a Van Norman made Wild Fork comming soon that is a Schulz Natural style bow. As for a longbow with superior shooting qualities as to what I own the Sage is the ticket. The JET's are right up there too, and hopefully some day will own a Sunset Hill bow. Like ya say they don't come up very often if ever.

I bought a bow once, a 79 at 27" bamboo. There was a 5/8" difference from the bottom limb to the top limb. The bottom limb did not like to bend much. I had a terrible time trying to find the right spot of the nocking point. It would not go anywhere near where I like them to be. The bow launched arrows up. It was very difficult to string. The grip was large and knobby. The string grooves cut bow strings prematurely. The finish flaked off with the first few shots. Sand paper in all of its amazing grits is a wonderful thing. I know two bowyers that can fine tiller a bow as good as I can and they really screwed up. They both made me bows that are so good that I am not in the market to buy another bow. Rooty had my Schulz Legend, I used what I learned in that super bow and got the same performance out of lighter bows. My need to protect my right hand forced me into being a mostly left hand shooter, I truly do not believe that my lefty Morningstar, or my JD and Nate Duo shooters can be beat. My own two Schulz Legend inspired bows are right in there as well, but I cannot shoot the hundreds of arrows that I like to do a day right handed without paying the consequences. I cannot afford to stand twenty yards out in my back yard to see how tight my groups can get with the Morningstar, that nock splitting feather ripper gets expensive. Then the duo shooters, hard to explain. I have access to large grove after deer season, pray for the bunnies, because I am going to be ruthless.

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