I see some here have a lack of understanding of basic arrow spine and are hung up on arrows that are too stiff.

The fact is that an arrow which is too stiff will not be as accurate as one with the proper spine for your Bow.

So, for those who think a shooter should be shooting an arrow that is too stiff, or one that is stiff and manipulate it somehow to be accurate, we need to educate those who think they know, but do not!

When we talk about an arrow’s spine, we’re talking about how much it flexes. We’re talking about its stiffness. Every arrow should flex when it leaves the bow. But it should only flex a certain amount. If it flexes too much – weak spine – then its flight will be erratic. If it doesn’t flex enough – stiff spine – then the arrow will have no forgiveness. Consistent accuracy usually suffers in either case.

There are a few really good shots that have no idea how to tune. I personally know one guy that has killed game all over the planet. It does work for some but there's a better world out there for most of us.

I believe a basic knowledge of tuning simply makes one crave a better understanding of how everything comes together in the world of archery. Without a doubt consistent form has a lot to do with accuracy, but a well tuned arrow is far more forgiving than an un-tuned arrow. The two simply compliment one another.

I have been called a "tuning nerd". I will be the first to admit that I am one that cannot leave well enough alone, I do have an inquisitive mind. This is the main reason I started shooting Traditional archery a few years back. I personally believe that it cannot be mastered but dang it's fun trying to figure it out :)

I had always followed the spine charts to choose my arrows. Just in the last few years I started doing bare shaft planning. Wow! It has been a real eye opener as to what arrow too shoot out of what bow. Bows that I thought would require a really stiff shaft ended up liking a much weaker spine than I would have ever imagined. Center shot, cut past center and left of center make a HUGE difference. The end result, I am now shooting better and more consistently that ever before. I can also get away with shooting a lot less feather, equaling flatter trajectory. A huge feather will hide a lot of tuning issues, and you will never achieve maximum accuracy and efficiency out of your arrow.

Tip of the iceberg Sam.

We really can't address archer lack of shaft flex understanding in isolation since shaft flex knowledge is just one of the more common reasons for mediocre shooting.

Shot 3D with a respected string maker a few weeks ago who also has quite a business building custom woodies and quantities of kids arrows for clubs and such.

He was shooting a new dual shelf Hill bow, spraying arrows such that 2/3 of his shots were either poor hits or total misses. He was clueless about correct flex and the greater distance from center of his bow. He had some arrows that flew ok and even better from my bow and he kept offering to make me a set...but he couldn't tell me the spine or even what they weighed. I can only conclude that the grownups who use him as their fletcher are equally as clueless.

I'm also reminded of the Wallers who chided me because I stated I can detect flight differences with only 2# of dynamic flex change...almost called me a liar...well, I was referring to the precision of carbons.

If I was one of those critics buying woodies from that fletcher I shot with...no wonder they don't believe me.

Rick R

Yes, understanding how spine works is the path to great arrow flight and more penetration on Game.

History is wasted if you don't visit it. We learned about spine a very long time ago, and I was even taught the importance of it when I was just getting into archer in 1964. Lots of this comes from folks who were compound shooters who literally didn't have to even bother to learn...they were "set up" both literally and figuratively by the local archery shop. Go in the front door, then come back out already to go to the practice bale. Shooting near or even at center did away with that learning curve.

It is amazing though that many will use the word but not know what it means. Rudimentary archery 101 Sam.

Here's a good link to start folks. http://www.lancasterarchery.com/blog/arrow-spine-vs-arrow-weight-dont-be-confused/

Sam -

True, but not quite that simple, or maybe it is, depending on the purpose and end game.

Let's be real, for the average "bow hunter" or guy shooting at the prescribed 17.3 yards, if the fletched arrow appears to be flying true, (no visible flirting) the odds are he's fine. Further tuning may be interesting, but may not help his end game. If, on the other hand, is arrows appear erratic, then he has to look into what's going on.

When distance get farther out and precision demands increase, then things change. Textbook bare shaft tuning is important, but only the first step. Once that's done (and yeah, it has to be done), then the shooter has to be looking at group size over time for the final vote.

The reason for that is that we're not machines and each of us have little quirks that affect how the arrow leaves the bow. That's why the same rig with two different shooters may require two different tunes.

If you look at a lot top Olympic archers, their tune is SLIGHTLY stiff. That gives them the best grouping at distance. However, I'll bet some are tuned dead nuts on as well.

Viper out.

Yes, read that article earlier this morning. Great read!

LT -

Exactly.

Viper out.

True that LT.

Even rotten form is more accurate with proper spine. I think proper spine benefits every single person that draws and shoots an arrow no matter their reasoning for shooting that arrow.

I would equate shooting an improperly spined arrow to shooting the wrong weight bullet/ rifling twist combo. Anyone that has done this knows that even the best match rifle will spray bullets all over the target. Also if the nut behind the trigger doesn't have good trigger discipline and form, no matter how good the rifles shoots you will //spray bullets all over the target//

Ya, but if I have a better aiming system than all will be OK! Right??? LOL

Spine and aiming are all un winnable arguments with all the backyard experts IMO.

This is meant to be amusing, I totally agree with the above!!!!

Arne

'we need to educate those who think they know, but do not!'

This is the age of information. I think if an archer WANTS to shoot better, they they can easily use Google or utube on their phone. It is more direct to get answers to specific questions here, and it provides entertainment for those of us that keep checking the site. There are libraries, but, gee, who uses them anymore?

I suggest visiting 'acsbows/ bow tuning' for tuning in a nut shell, getting 'Shooting the Stickbow' for a comprehensive discussion on archery, and posting specific questions here.

If an archer is satisfied with their proficiency in hunting or at target shooting and does not want to improve, there isn't much you can do. Please note that I support shooting proficiency, shot placement, and sharp broadheads for hunting. I have also been involved with a group that offered advanced hunter education, over and above the minimum that New York State required.

True GG.

Slightly stiff Viper?

I wake up that way every morning! lol

Spine is deflection. Deflection is how much the arrow bends when supported on the pegs (these can be either 26" apart (uisnfg a 2lb. weight) or 28" (using a 1.94lb. weight) depending on whose measurement you are using) and is measured in thousandths of an inch.

For instance, a shaft measured over a 26" span using a 2lb. weight that "bends" or deflects .520" is said to have a 50lb. spine. It doesn't matter what the material is, that's the spine rating.

There are 2 different types of spine. Staic spine. Which is described above. And "dynamic" spine. Which is how the arrow actually behaves when we shoot it from a bow.

Different materials behave differently "dynamically". Also, different archers have different "dynamic' affects on arrow spine. As does the amount or lack of centershot in the bow set up. The type of string material being used. The mass of the string silencers being used. The way the archer release the string, etc..

Every 1/16" difference in centershot has an afect of increasing, or decreasing the spine reguirement of a bow.

For example. A bow that is 50lbs. at 28" and hhas a sight window "cut to center" will likely require a 50lb. spine for a 28" BOP arrow. However, the same bow, with a sight window that is 1/8" past center, will require an arrow that is 10lbs. heavier in spine. Tremeber the 1/16" equals 5lbs..?

Overall arrow length also has an affect on soine requirement. Every inch over 28" is going to require an additional 5lbs. of draw weight.

Conversely, every inch under 28" will reduce the spine requirement by 5lbs..

For skinny, low stretch strings, add 5lbs. Foe large or multiple string silencers, subtract 5lbs..

Adding weight to the front of the arrow, as in heavier points, adds to the spine requirement. When you get over 145 grs. you will need to bump the spine by 5lbs..

Dynamic spine> Remember we said that dynamic spine is affected by dynamics? Well it is. Here's an exampple.

Carbon arows are the in thing right now. But, a .660 spine carbon should have EXACTLY the same defledtion or static soine as .600 spine arrow of any other material. Now, carbons are measured over a 28" span, sing a 1.94 weight, but even with that, if you spine test a crabon arrow and wood arrow, over the same span. using the same weight, they should "bend" or deflect the same amunt. The difference with carbon is that due to the material, they have the ability to revover, or straighten out faster than wood, or aluminum either one.

Converting the spine of an aluminum or carbon arrow to match the spine of wood arrows (remmeber carbons and aluminums are measured over 28" and wood over 26") simply take the deflection number of the carbon or aluminum and multiply it by .825. For example, a .600 spine carbon conversts to .495 when meausred over a 26" span. That equates to 52.5lbs..

That's the basics of spine and deflection. The individual nuances of the archer really can't be taken into account in a discussion like this.

But typically, people who have a very clean, dynamic release (and that doesn't mean your hand goes flying off your face) require an arrow that is slightly stiffer than a person who has a more passive release. The less disturbance that YOUR relsend release method has on the stirng, the stiffer the dynamic spine requirement. If you shoot with 2 fingers under, you likely require a stiffer spine, You are creating less string oscillation because you you are cutting the interference of the fingers by 30%. If you shoot with a thum ring, you can do the same thing. Release aid..same deal.

A good read for those who do not know these things.

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