I’m going to try 3 under after 25 years of inconsistency with split fingers. I’m not looking to debate the pros and cons of 3 under vs split, gap vs instinctive, etc but if that’s something you want to pursue then go ahead.
My Habu longbow is tillered for split and doesn’t tune for 3 under with a raised nock point. I’ve tried and it just doesn’t work. I’ve now raised the rest about 1/4” with a custom fitted laminated leather pad and raised the nock about the same and results appear good, although it’s been windy so it’s hard to tell. I’ll verify over the next day or two.
If this doesn’t work are there any suggestions to get ‘er to tune?
I've really never seen a bow that wouldn't tune to 3 under. I've heard of some and they were from reliable sources. Raising the arrow up off the shelf as you did is one of the methods often used.
I switched to 3 under after 40 plus yrs of shooting split. It took me a while to fully adjust. I mention this because it could be like it was with me when I first switched, I wasn't getting a good fluid release as far as pushing/pulling goes. I'm not saying this has anything to do with your tuning problem but just a thought.
I haven't come across a bow as of yet that I cant tune to 3 uder, not saying there aint none out there but I haven't had a problem yet.
I recently switched to 3 under as well. I actually had to lower my nocking point about 1/8" and I'm shooting off the shelf. I'm also still getting adjusted to the new style but am very glad I made the switch. Arrows seem to tune a little stiffer for me as well.
I also switched to three under after 40+ years of shooting split. All my bows(20+) except one are tillered for split, I've yet to find one that won't tune just fine by slightly raising the nock point. I've found, for me, that the most important thing is to keep the weight off that third ring finger as much as possible when drawing.
Tim, I also had to lower my nock point when I switched to 3 under. At split, my nock point tuned very well at 5/8. With 3 under I had to lower it just a tad down to 1/2 to get good tune.
Less tuning issues for me on the equipment side, but several form adjustments were necessary at my end including getting my nose out of the path of the string and as said lightening pressure on my ring finger. I have found much of what I'd thought to be tuning issues were form issues that i needed to refine. Not saying this is your case--- just what i experienced. A bit higher nock point was the only change i made at the bow end.
3 under shooters will gain many benefits by utilizing a nock point below the arrow as well as above.
This is very likely the reason that some guys can't tune certain bows for 3 under or end up with lower nock points.
Unless the arrow nock is grasping the serving so tightly that it just can't slide, then upon release, the arrow will slide down the string until it finds center.
This will most likely cause the arrow to bounce off the shelf and after a bit of shooting will likely wear out the shelf material, not to mention cause much frustration in tuning.
For 3 under, the arrow actually indexes off the lower nock.
When setting the string up with two nock points, be sure to allow aproximately 1/16" - 1/8" of extra space between nock points so when at full draw, they don't pinch the arrow and cause serving separation.
Good luck on the on the switch just give it a couple weeks for the adjustment to sink in and I bet that you will find three under to a lot more forgiven in your release and your point on will change some as well. Less creeping and better visual aiming. I switched and my accuracy and grouping improved.
Thanks for all the input. I’ll add a second nock point. I normally tie in two nock points once I’ve found the ideal setting by starting with a single brass nock point but for this exercise I’ll use two brass for tuning and then tie them in once it’s tuned.
Usually the "term" tillered for split, means the bow has a 1/8" positive tiller; usually the "term" tillered for 3-under means the bow has an even tiller. I'm of the opinion it actually doesn't mean anything--all bows have tiller. :^)
Two nock points above and below the arrow are important IMO.I differ than most cause I dont serve in a gap as I want my arrow to leave the string at the same spot.
Sorry for my ignorance here, but why three under? What does it do for you? Never tried it and don’t know much about it but I see a lot of people talking about switching to it and I don’t see people talking about switching from it to split finger. I figure there must be a good reason but I don’t know what it is.,, Can you explain the benefits and or negatives?
Benefits is that it gets the arrow closer to the eye so closer shots are a bit easier. Also, some folks say they get a better release since the fingers aren't split at the arrow...that part I don't know about. 3 under has disadvantages too since longer shots can be problematic since the sight radius has shortened. But archers today don't shoot over thirty yards or so it seems so most folks prefer that closer eye to arrow vision.
By the way, 3 under is not new by any stretch of the imagination.
If raising the neck didn't do it its either your spines borderline stiff and you're shortening it draw length slightly by switching, or ur doing like alot of guy do and plucking your string 3under. I see that alot on guys first switching.
Yeah I know it’s not a new idea. I think it’s what people used to refer to as Apache style, but I may be wrong. I just meant that I was unfamiliar with it experientially. As I am with a lot of trad stuff. And that I don’t seem to hear about this in reverse (people going from 3 under to split). Closer to the eye makes sense to me for aiming but does it help for instinctive shooting? Like I said i’m Ignorant on much stuff traditional but it seems like split figures would give better arrow flight because the fingers are more in line directly behind the arrow. This is just me trying to think about it logically. I may be totally off base here. I’m willing to give anything a try that might make me a better shot.
Over the years of seeing guys go to three under, a common thing, I did it myself when I tried three under on a short recurve, is to pull too hard at times with the ring finger. More recently, a younger guy wanted to try three under and would get occasional porpoising arrow flight. I gave a Pararest and put the nocking point so the arrow was about 3/16" above level with two nocking points. That seemed to fix his problem. Unless one is doing it for finger pinch with a short recurve, in the old days archers added a bow sight to better their accuracy, that worked for an average recurve. A couple of guys with vision problems have gone to DAS sights in the area. Like one of my early mentors in the 60s always said, 'when hunting, shoot through the sight , not at it'. The DAS peep style sight allows for that.
Frank, the reason I switched from split finger/"gapstinctive" is two fold:
I sat back and averaged the distances I have killed deer or missed deer. My average since switching to a recurve (wasn't much more with a compound bow) was 12 yards. Some days shooting "gapstinctive" (where I focused on the target but was aware of my arrow tip in my peripheral vision to a certain degree) I was dead-on. Other days I struggled with accuracy. I watched Jimmy Blackmon's video's on shooting a fixed crawl and he explained it very well. I had to try it, I needed day-after-day accuracy. I switched to three under, anchoring with my middle finger in the corner of my mouth on a tooth. Bareshaft tuned and with a 1/2" above nock point height, my point-on was at 21 yards. Perfect for hunting whitetails from a stand, which is most of what I do. Then I set a tied-on nock point down the string roughly about 3/4" and had my 0-15 yard "fixed crawl" set, where I put my fingers on the string. I put a second tie-on nock point below the original nock point to keep the arrow from sliding down the string any at the shot. Now I draw, put my fingers 3 under, under the arrow at the pre-designated nock points on the string according to the yardage estimation and then put the arrow point dead-on the spot I want to hit and let`er rip. My accuracy has increased dramatically as an average, day to day, and so has my confidence when deer season opens. Some folks have the "knack" for instinctive shooting, and my hats off to them. I wish I could shoot well, day in and day out, instinctive, but I cant. Like I said above, some days I felt really good about my shooting and then others days it was off, sometimes bad off. Shooting a fixed crawl, 3 under, arrow point dead on the spot I want to hit, having a dedicated aiming system, has really helped my shooting. I doubt I'll ever try split, instinctive, "gapstinctive", again.
Thanks Darrin, That’s interesting. I too struggle with being consistent with “instinctive” shooting past about 12 yards, but don’t really know other techniques. I will look into what you and the others are talking about. It’s funny that they call “instinctive “ when it takes so much practice and so few do it well. Lol
After 49 years shooting split finger decided to try three under last year .It has worked out good for me and I had to slightly raise my nock point but I seem to be shooting better
Awesome video. I hope it's that easy when I try it. ?? So, if I understand this right....He is pointing the actual tip of his arrow directly at the deer a 20 yards away (he's sighted in so to speak). At shorter yardage he points a little low and at longer yardage he aims a little high. Am I correct on this?
Not necessarily. That's the point of the "fixed crawl", Frank, not to have to hold under or over at hunting distances, that's gap shooting. But if a deer is some beyond your point-on while your fingers are under the arrow nock, yes, you may have to hold a little high. My point-on with my fingers touching under the arrow nock is 21 yards. If I wanna shoot a target at say, 27 yards, I have to put my arrow point some higher. Time shooting will tell you what your gap would be, how much to hold high at farther yardages that what your original "point-on" is. Yardages from my 21 yard point on and down, I don't have to hold high or low, I hold the point of my arrow dead on, and my fingers down the string at my other tie-on nock point that's set for less yardage, and that's where it hits, and that aligns perfectly with my usual deer hunting distance shots.
I'm not very good at explaining this stuff, so if it seems confusing, forgive me. Maybe someone that types out their thoughts better than me will chime in. Hope what I posted has helped some.
I shoot 3 under after shooting split for over 40 yrs. I switched because I got tired of nock pinch. I don't anchor as high shooting 3U as some do. I don't anchor right under my eye so there wasn't much difference in elevation for me. My nocking point isn't much higher than when I shot split.
After raising the shelf 1/4” and adjusting the nock point so it’s the same height as what worked for split fingers the bow seems to be shooting just fine most of the time. That said it’s definitely a different feel and will take a few sessions to get used to 3 under so I’m consistent in my shot execution.
I also believe the last time I tried this a couple years ago I had some form issues and those may have been the cause of my inability to tune the bow for 3 under.
In any case, once I get use to shooting three under I’m going to take the shelf back to stock height and see if it still shoots well. I’d prefer to shoot the bow without any modifications, especially if they’re proven to be unnecessary.
The first thing to do, once your bow is tuned with the arrow, is to find YOUR point-on distance with your fingers directly under the arrow nock. Mine ended up at 21 yards. Yours may not. Yours could be longer...or shorter.
