Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Recurve vs. Compound - Recurve Wins!

Messages posted to thread:
goldentrout_one 09-Aug-18
Knifeguy 09-Aug-18
Pa Steve 09-Aug-18
Babysaph 09-Aug-18
Bowcrazytw 09-Aug-18
kginrick 09-Aug-18
goldentrout_one 09-Aug-18
Ghostman 09-Aug-18
fdp 09-Aug-18
hawkeye in PA 09-Aug-18
Linecutter 09-Aug-18
Babysaph 10-Aug-18
Babysaph 10-Aug-18
Linecutter 10-Aug-18
Beendare 10-Aug-18
Draven 10-Aug-18
George D. Stout 10-Aug-18
goldentrout_one 10-Aug-18
Babysaph 10-Aug-18
Babysaph 10-Aug-18
Babysaph 10-Aug-18
Linecutter 10-Aug-18
Babysaph 10-Aug-18
Babysaph 10-Aug-18
Bowhunter 10-Aug-18
George Tsoukalas 10-Aug-18
Yunwiya 11-Aug-18
Tom McCool 11-Aug-18
ny yankee 11-Aug-18
limbwalker 11-Aug-18
Tim Finley 11-Aug-18
GUTPILE PA 11-Aug-18
KyPhil 11-Aug-18
Linecutter 11-Aug-18
Tom McCool 11-Aug-18
Tom McCool 11-Aug-18
B arthur 11-Aug-18
From: goldentrout_one
Date: 09-Aug-18




We are having some construction in our office, some walls are coming down, drywall is going up, etc. So our office decided to have a contest, recurve vs. compound. The goal was to shoot through a layer of drywall that was slated for demolition. I was to be the recurve guy.

To have a chance of winning, I brought my heaviest/fastest bow, a 1970 Super Kodiak, marked 60 lb at 28" (my draw is 30"). My arrow is a 2220 (yes, 2220, that's not a typo), with a 175gr tip the whole arrow is about 750 grains. Dacron string and 5" feathers....

My opponent had an older PSE compound from the 1990s, we think set to 55 lb peak draw, shooting 1914 aluminum arrows (don't know how much they weigh, but a fairly light arrow with a narrow shaft diameter).

Result? My arrow blasted through the dry wall and landed about 25 feet beyond the wall. My buddy's arrow failed to penetrate the wall - the arrow almost made it through but appeared to get hung up on the vanes.

So Recurve Wins! (yeah, I know a modern compound would smoke my recurve, but it's still nice to log a victory once in a while...)

From: Knifeguy
Date: 09-Aug-18




Nice to know that these old shooters,(the bow, not you), can still perform when needed. I bet a 50# recurve would have done the same thing too! Lance

From: Pa Steve
Date: 09-Aug-18




Cool. I guess arrow weight mattered in this example.

From: Babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 09-Aug-18




The slower the arrow the more it penetrates.

From: Bowcrazytw
Date: 09-Aug-18




I'm just excited about the fact that you can bring your bows inside the office!!!

From: kginrick
Date: 09-Aug-18




Baby sap do you believe that ? Would a 500 grain arrow at 140 FPS out penetrate a 500 grain arrow at 185 FPS ? Your statement needs clarification.

From: goldentrout_one
Date: 09-Aug-18




My 60 lb super kodiak will beat my 52 lb Wes Wallace by about 2 to 4 feet per second - a negligible difference for practical hunting or 3D or target applications. But for the drywall contest, I wanted every advantage possible, hence my 60 lb bow (that I rarely shoot due to the draw weight). Plus the Super K is a sweet-looking bows, doesn't hurt my ego to have my office mates oohh and awww over the graceful lines of my classic bow. My opponents PSE? Meh.......

From: Ghostman
Date: 09-Aug-18




I would expect no less in the results. The 2220 arrow obviously weights a LOT more than a 1916 arrow. Momentum wins every time

From: fdp
Date: 09-Aug-18




Actually the heavier arrow won. Would have been interesting to shoot the same arrow from both.

From: hawkeye in PA
Date: 09-Aug-18




Take the win and be happy! You'll never please these guys;)

From: Linecutter
Date: 09-Aug-18




No Babysaph a heavier arrow at moderate speed out penatrated a lighter arrow at a faster speed. I am guessing at his draw the recurve bow was pulling 68#s, he stated his arrow weight was 750grs (so over 10grs per pound), and I am guessing his arrow speed to be about 170-175 fps. The lighter arrow was traveling faster, what we don't know is if it was tuned to the bow (Personally doubt it.), even though shot from a lighter draw weight. Bows from that era and that draw weight, I am guessing its speed at around 220fps. Though it was close, the lighter arrow shed energy faster and didn't have enough retained momentum to push the entire length of the shaft completely through.

It was actually a pretty good test. The target medium was not designed to stop an arrow as foam targets are that we shoot at. So once the arrow penetrated there was nothing to close around it and stop it. Kinda like animal flesh on a broadside shot, once the broadhead cuts the hole as it goes through the animal, there is nothing to close in around the shaft to slow it down unless it hits thick shoulder bone.

Babysaph, kginrick trumped your comment with his about arrow speed. Arrows of the same weight, the fastest one will out penetrate the slower one, providing all factors are equal. DANNY

From: Babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 10-Aug-18




How can both arrows weighing 500 grains fly at two different speeds shot from the same poundage bow. I don't get it. According to the heavy arrow guys the heavier (slower) arrow will penetrate more. My findings have been different. My heavier wood arrow never penetrated as well as my lighter carbons do. (From the same bow)

From: Babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 10-Aug-18




How can both arrows weighing 500 grains fly at two different speeds shot from the same poundage bow. I don't get it. According to the heavy arrow guys the heavier (slower) arrow will penetrate more. My findings have been different. My heavier wood arrow never penetrated as well as my lighter carbons do. (From the same bow)

From: Linecutter
Date: 10-Aug-18




Your statement was a slower arrow will out penetrate a faster arrow, which also contradicts your statement just above. A 500gr arrow is a 500gr arrow, no matter what bow it is shot from, it does not need to shot from the same poundage bow. Even if it was some bows are more efficient bow than others, it could also be longbow verses recurve shooting a 500gr arrow. The faster of the 2 500gr arrows will out penetrate the slower one "again all things being equal". There is no way around it. You are shooting in to foam I assume. If the field point on the front end of the carbon shaft is a little bigger in diameter than the shaft, it will take the foam longer to close in around the shaft to start slowing it down, thus deeper penetration. Second thing Carbon has a much smoother surface than woods (plus woods finish becomes tacky when heated on penetration), making it harder for the foam to grip and start to slow it down, thus better penetration. If you have one of those white 2 inch ethafoam targets, hang a zucchini or cucumber on it and shoot it with one of your wood arrows and tell me how much penetration it gets. I will save you the trouble, the arrow won't stop at all in the foam, you will be looking to see where it went. It became lubricated going through either of them, the foam won't be able to grip it to stop it. My buddy and I were shooting compounds and aluminum arrows in the Mid 80's when I did it. If that ethafoam didn't stop that aluminum, it isn't going to stop your wood. Foam targets are design to stop arrows by friction, different factors come into play when shooting into that medium affecting the depth of penetration, has nothing to do with penetration in an animal.

When shooting an animal you have a broadhead that is cutting a larger hole, the following shaft being smaller, there will be little drag on the shaft. Second what most people don't add into the equation is the blood of the animal it acts as a lubricant for the shaft allowing it to slide through the animal easier (the example of ethafoam and zucchini/cumber). For deer size animals where most impact resistance is seen is if you hit an angling shot on the shoulder bone or hit the spine of the shoulder bone, its thickest part. Both are tough shots to get penetration on using a broadhead. Also if you go through heavy muscle and the deer reacts and there is lateral or vertical stress placed against the shaft as the deer turns. On these shots is where the extra momentum of a heavy arrow would/might help out to continue the arrows forward momentum. DANNY

From: Beendare
Date: 10-Aug-18




Still folks that think they can defy the laws of physics....jeez

2 arrows shot from the same bow; the heavier arrow absorbs more of the bows energy...so it starts with more stored energy.

Of course there are other factors like perfect arrow flight and BH efficiency besides just arrow weight when it penetration.

I've seen a bunch of fast and light arrows with mech heads look like they stopped dead in game.....but those arrows on the heavy side with an efficient BH just keep on going.

From: Draven
Date: 10-Aug-18




I shoot the same arrow 570 gr from my #70 recurve and an old enough (2004) #60 compound using same tab and same draw length and there is no match in penetration. Recurve loses. The compound sends it 40 fps more and the "slower penetrates more" is against the laws of Physics.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 10-Aug-18




Oh my. A subject we have never covered before. ;)

From: goldentrout_one
Date: 10-Aug-18




Linecutter is correct - I shot that heavy arrow in front of a LabRadar and the speed is right around the high 160s to the low 170s, fairly quick for such a heavy arrow in my opinion. Just for laughs, we ran that exact same arrow through my friend's near-new Prime compound last year, I think set at 65 lb.... going by my sketchy memory, he was still able to get that 750gr arrow up to about 220 fps.... which is why it amuses me that we collectively hand-wring over a few feet per second when a compound delivers an order of magnitude more energy to the arrow....if speed was important to me, I would not be on this site, I would be shooting wheels...

From: Babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 10-Aug-18




Maybe you misunderstood me. Shoot two different weight arros from the same bow and the slower(heavier) arrow is supposed to out penetrate yhe lighter one. All I am saying is that in my experience from my bow shooting a wood arrow and a carbon arrow, the carbon arrow which was lighter out penetrated the wood arrow.

From: Babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 10-Aug-18




George there are lots of subjects here that have been covered before. Like which is better left wing or right wing. Etc

From: Babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 10-Aug-18




My whole point is that there are other factors involved besides the weight of the arrow. The medium you shoot something through does not matter if both arrows are shot into the same thing.

From: Linecutter
Date: 10-Aug-18




Babysaph I understood your question. Did you understand my answer? DANNY

From: Babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 10-Aug-18




My whole point is that there are other factors involved besides the weight of the arrow. The medium you shoot something through does not matter if both arrows are shot into the same thing.

From: Babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 10-Aug-18




No. Lol.

From: Bowhunter
Date: 10-Aug-18




Linecutter in reference to your above post. THAT was very well presented. I agree 100%. Thank You!!!

From: George Tsoukalas
Date: 10-Aug-18




golden_troutone, congratulations! Fun stuff. Jawge

From: Yunwiya
Date: 11-Aug-18




A 40 pound bow can handle any drywall in North America.

From: Tom McCool
Date: 11-Aug-18

Tom McCool's embedded Photo



Oh...a construction site... that makes way more sense then a hunting cabin.

From: ny yankee
Date: 11-Aug-18




Yunwiya, LOL!!

From: limbwalker
Date: 11-Aug-18




"an older PSE compound from the 1990s..."

With all due respect, compounds didn't really begin to routinely outperform recurves until the steel cables were replaced by low- stretch modern string material. Since then, it's not even been close.

From: Tim Finley Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 11-Aug-18




A 1916 is a light arrow for a 55 # bow it may not have been hitting straight .

From: GUTPILE PA
Date: 11-Aug-18




I like that yunwyia that's funny!!!!

From: KyPhil
Date: 11-Aug-18




A 1980s PSE mach 4 with cables and a B50 could out speed any recurve of the same draw weight and arrow weight. A bear whitetail hunter though was a different matter. I killed a deer with one though.

From: Linecutter
Date: 11-Aug-18




Tom McCool, I am willing to bet you hit one of those spine studs on that high hit, keeping that shaft from exiting that wall completely, If it would have just been a little lower and to the left you would have had a complete pass through. :')

From: Tom McCool
Date: 11-Aug-18

Tom McCool's embedded Photo



Linecutter, your likely right...but the up side is...I can hang stuff up in the living room...

From: Tom McCool
Date: 11-Aug-18

Tom McCool's embedded Photo



...and the kitchen too!

From: B arthur
Date: 11-Aug-18




I love that wall hanger. Im shooting an arrow through my wall tonight. My wife will love it. ....I think





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