Alright, so I have been shooting for a month now, and I have started to nail down fairly consistent form. Although I still do get quite a few flyers, I atleast know what I did wrong in my form most of the time.

I want to start tuning my bow to get as much out of it as possible. My question is where should I start?

My brace height is 6 3/4," and I am shooting Gold Tip Velocity's with 500 spine, arrow length is 30", I don't know my draw length, but I shoot 31" on my compound so I probably lost 2-3 inches. Shooting a Samick Sage 62" long and 35# draw

I can get more info if needed, but I have heard (and read about) all these different tuning methods, but which ones are the most important for me to work on first?

On a side note, several people have told me I should upgrade from my factory string(I think its called an endless loop?) to a flemish string? I don't know what that is, but what is the difference and why should I switch strings?

Thank you!

Josh -

What kind of groups are you shooting at 20 yards? Be honest, and to give us more info, shooting a 300 round on the blue target and posting the score would help.

Viper out.

Cool you are looking for help. Your draw very important. Start off with increasing your brace height I would start at 7.5" with that bow. Your arrows are very stiff in spine. That kinda of okay for now, but not long soon you will need to correct that. First you have know your draw length. I use a cloth pin when I don't have a assistant put it on the arrow at 29 draw does it touch the riser move it out if it does to soon. In if it doesn't. Post a video of you shooting lets see your form. Do you have a mentor? Crawl walk run

A month is not long. You need to be consistent to be concerned with tuning. An upgraded string will not do much for you at this point. I agree your arrows are very stiff for a 35 pound bow. There are some good coaches here and a video presented to them would probably help you a lot. Good luck.>>>----> Ken

I doubt you lost 3” of draw length but who knows I’m guessing you are drawing near 30” or thereabouts. That’s potentially 41-42pounds if the bow is marked correctly so 500 spine arrows with 150-175 point weight will work great. You will get a lot of misinformation due to your long draw I know I did.

Samick sages are cut way past center now so you can tune any spine to shoot great with side plate thickness and point weight. Buy the book by Anthony camera and you will get all your questions answered and have a good reference book from now on. You need to learn why you tune and what it changes before you ever start tuning. It’s the whole teach a man to fish thing. You will learn that brace height is different for each person and each bow You will learn the effect of nick placement and about a billion other things that will help you. Advice on the internet is great but seldom works without tweaking. Learn the process and you will be able to set up any bow any time. It’s part of the journey and one of the best parts in my opinion. Trust me buy be book!

I'd suggest checking out serveral tuning vids on youtube.Ken Becks vids are a good place to start there.Fred Asbell's first "Instinctive Shooting" book covers tuning and shooting quite well.

Great book you need this book it will last you a life time.

Anthony Camera is Viper, you'd do well to answer his question. He's trying to find out if it's time for you to tune.

The simple answer is to ask your coach. Be honest, he didn't tell you to shoot .500's. To know for sure your draw length is important.

Proper alignment is proper alignment. Doesn't matter if your shooting a bow or a compound. So that might tell you what your draw length is.

And now doing the math, you have to add about 9 pounds to that 35 at 28. So if you knew what Viper knows that equates to a bow that's to heavy and short to learn with.

So the first thing to do is answer Viper's question. Then no matter what his answer is, when the time comes to tune use this - www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html click on 'download printable version'. At the end is the best broadhead tuning instructions that I've found.

If you don't like your coach, PM me and I'll give you info for one in your area.

I probably shouldn't have speculated on Viper's response. Might want to take it out and put Bowmania.

Bowmania

Josh, if you go to TradTalk you find a thread there "Why is starting with light poundage a good ideal".

I gave my reasons and what I tell my students, if they ask. There's some really knowledgeable archers over there and the responses show it.

Bowmania

Your knocking his coach,why because he is shooting 500 spine arrows. Have you owned, and tuned a 35 or 40 lb. Samick Sage?Seven and three quarters to 8 and one quarter is brace on those bows.You were told to change the string,rightly so the bow is ff compatible, and 10 strand fast flight string works wonders improving the velocity by up to 12 feet per second.Cut past center shot, and you can use a plunger button, and flipper rest to tune.That bow is built with a lot options.If you do the above you will get as much out of it as possible, as you have asked for.Group tune then ,and learn proper form.I own 2 of these bows .One 35 lbs ,and one 40lbs.I use one for indoor 20 yards, and the other for 3d.My arrows are ics 500,s 160 gr tip.That arrows tunes great out of both of these bows.You can use flemish or continious loop string your choice.Dkincaid is right on.

You could always work on form w a string bow.

Set the bow up with its max potential, thats first.Then he can carry on from there.

Bassman, my friend, we agree on so much especially when it comes to tuning. Tony asked him about group size for a reason. It is very difficult for a newbie to tune for the maximum potential before he can shoot good groups. You need to start out with a good combination but until you can shoot you can't discern whether it is the archer or the tuning causing big groups or fliers.It is all good but both are equally important. Best of luck and I second the recommendation of the book. Tons of useful information in it. >>>----> Ken

I went down and shot this group for ya, after a few rounds my groupings are usually a little bit tighter, but I guess this a fair picture of my average, this is at 10 yards though. That grouping is 2 1/4”

I have mostly stuck to blank baling and shots up to 10 yards.

2 bears i am talking about the phsyical aspects of the bow its self.String,plunger button,flipper rest,brace height.Then you start your groups and evaluate.With that bow he is starting off on the wrong foot to begin with.Brace is not even in the ball park it needs ff string,plunger button ,and flipper rest "to get the max out of the bow".That bow can be set up for target shooting if it is fed the right components.That is the reason i bought 2 of them,and i might add they did not dissapoint.Excellent bows for the money whether you shoot target, or hunt with them.Everybody has a way of tuning ,and the end results is what counts.The best way to tune is when you get the results you want and are looking for my friend.

Josh you are doing great just hang in there.>>>----> Ken

Josh, I hope you know I wasn't KNOCKING your coach. You don't have one!!!! Unless your different from 99 out of a hundred.

To traslate - get a coach. You'll shorten the learning curve by YEARS. You don't even know what you don't know.

I do like that group. BUT there's a reason that Viper asked you to do it at 20.

Bowmania

Thank you for the advice, I get the picture. I will start shooting a little farther out and once I can get consistent groups at 20 yards maybe I will visit this topic again. The main reason I have kept myself on a leash so to speak is I wanted to be able to atleast keep my arrows in the target at 20 yards, I figure if I can keep 2 or 3 inch groups consistently at 10. I won't have to worry too much about losing arrows at farther distances. Thank you all!

Of course you are right. We agree on tuning. I wasn't aware of what the brace should be on that bow either. I don't get the maximum potential out of a lot of my bows. I have B55 in all colors and most of my bows are 40 + years old. I build my own strings both Flemish Twist and single loop so that is what they get.They are tuned though and I still do O.K. even though I am well past my prime. It is all good.Just have fun.>>>---> Ken

Boy, advice all over the place, and all decent.

1. The Sage is a fine bow for the $$.

2. Getting the perfect arrow involves multiple items to bring in sync. Most are mentioned, but they ALL have importance and are inter-related. (Changing one impacts the correctness of the others.)

3. Tony wants you to have better experience as you need an accurate base line from which to tune...for example your photo at ten yards hints the arrows are too stiff (grouping left for a right hand shooter).

Here's the basic summary.

1. You must know the true draw weight AT YOUR DRAW. The clothes pin recommendation delivers your draw length. Buy or borrow a scale and use the clothes pin to draw to that length with the scale.

2. Many of us would fit the category of hide-bound and close minded in our opinions on the correct arrow. Not all ways to the best arrow are as good as others. The distance the sitting arrow is from the center of the bow's power stroke is a major factor for example. Even a 1/32" change in strikeplate thickness and a top shooter can detect a change in left-right grouping.

3. The difference between an inexpensive endless loop string (one long strand doubled back over itself and typically with more strands/thickness than needed) versus a more thin string with fewer strands of low stretch material can be as much as a 5% power boost. Flemish twist which has each strand cut to length and then twisted into loops at each end will often be more quiet than an endless loop made of traditional dacron. Not super important when learning though.

4. Every bow has a sweet spot where brace height allows max transfer of energy from string to arrow. The exact distance is personal, but the Sage (as others mention) will likely perform and feel/sound better closer to 8" than where you have it now. (Twist the bejeebers out of that Samick string to make it shorter will also make the bow prefer a more stiff arrow.)

5. Ok, but how to know where to begin? Maker arrow charts will usually only get you sort-of-close, but looping back to Viper again, until your form shows enough consistency to have a base line, that'll do. So long as the arrow is long enough, no real harm being longer than necessary.

At 35# and a reasonable draw length, you may even need to go to 600 spine to get an arrow not too heavy for best trajectory. Arrows too stiff (flying left of aim) add point weight to make the arrow more flexible (weak). Too weak? Less point weight or cutting the shaft shorter stiffens the arrow.

Last, a caution...very few bow store clerks know how to choose the right arrow for a trad bow. (Compounds use a different method to measure arrow flex.)

Rick R

I believe all that you have said above my friend ,and we are still shooting ,and a lot of us old folks are still doing it with zeal, and good accuracy.keep em flying.

Timbukto,"arrows are stiff you need to change that soon" wrong.Bow Mania "be honest he did not tell you to shoot 500,s, wrong.D kincaid on the Samick sage,right.None of us have all the answers, and it is easy to see you can learn something new everyday.

Bassman, I THINK I have all the answers. Lol.

One word of caution on Yorktowns tread. If you have to untwist a flemish string, you can untwist it too far and it will come apart. The twists are what hold it together.

Bowmania

Update, well I did as you guys suggested and twisted the heck out of my string. Before there were not any twists at all in it,so that is why it was at 6 3/4" Brace height. Now its at about 8 1/2", and all I have to say is wow! Its like I am shooting a whole new bow, it is way quieter and it doesn't feel like a jackhammer in my hand haha!

I feel like it needs to be a little lower, but I am going to leave the bow strung for a few days and see if I lose any brace height before I try and get it perfect.

Josh -

You gotten a lot of info, and I might have missed a few details.

Your draw length Easy, have some one watch you shoot, a shooting buddy is fine. You know your arrows are 30", so how much is sticking out the back of the bow when you're anchored? That's your answer.

If you really lost 2 - 3" of DL from your compound, Houston, we have a problem. I'd expect about a 30" draw, but you have to tell me.

That's not only important for arrow spine, but for your shooting. Most Sages start stacking around 29".

While your groups are "OK" at 10 yards, before going any further, I'd still like to see what you can do at 20. And frankly, 60 arrows on a 300 round would tell me a lot more than a single group size.

The biggest problem we have, is that we can't see what you're doing. Take everything here, including anything I post, with a grain of salt.

Viper out.

Josh you can go to 7 and three quarter,s brace and still be ok. If you want to see a real difference in that bow for not to much money put a flipper rest ,plunger button, and fast flight string on it.That puts the bow at it,s peak for performance.A lot that has been said above is good info,and do not ignore it.Watch on utube Ken Beck on tuning.It will be like he is talking to you,and you can see what he is doing to tune a bow properly.Videos can be good teaching aids, and are easier to understand than just words to the average person.Watch all that you can,and you will pick up a lot of good tips.Arny Moe ,Jim, Blackmon,Rod Jenkins ,and others do a fine job showing you how.Good shooting.

Bassman, I agree, Ken Becks tuning video is awesome. Hey, that clothespin trick for measuring draw length is excellent!!! It would make a great way to measure your draw consistency also. I wish I would have thought of that eon's ago when I started.

Ya me too. keep em flying.

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