Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


It's not the gear, Silly.

Messages posted to thread:
Jimmy Blackmon 10-Jun-18
babysaph 10-Jun-18
grizz 10-Jun-18
cedar shooter 10-Jun-18
ChuckC 10-Jun-18
JusPassin 10-Jun-18
song dog 10-Jun-18
Archre167 10-Jun-18
fdp 10-Jun-18
Liquid Tension 10-Jun-18
RonG 10-Jun-18
longshot 10-Jun-18
Jim 10-Jun-18
Draven 10-Jun-18
Babbling Bob 10-Jun-18
M60gunner 10-Jun-18
Bassman 10-Jun-18
Sirius Black 10-Jun-18
Styksnstryngs 10-Jun-18
RonG 10-Jun-18
Caughtandhobble 10-Jun-18
hawkeye in PA 10-Jun-18
Jimmy Blackmon 10-Jun-18
StikBow 10-Jun-18
Hal9000 10-Jun-18
skookum 10-Jun-18
Brad Lehmann 10-Jun-18
Jimmy Blackmon 10-Jun-18
monkeyball 10-Jun-18
Draven 10-Jun-18
Fletch 10-Jun-18
Fletch 10-Jun-18
Sipsey River 10-Jun-18
Babysaph 10-Jun-18
DanaC 11-Jun-18
K Cummings 11-Jun-18
PECO 11-Jun-18
RonG 11-Jun-18
Fuzzy 11-Jun-18
Draven 11-Jun-18
RymanCat 11-Jun-18
K Cummings 11-Jun-18
Fletch 11-Jun-18
DanaC 12-Jun-18
John Cooper 12-Jun-18
shade mt 12-Jun-18
RonG 12-Jun-18
Jimmy Blackmon 12-Jun-18
Draven 12-Jun-18
Scott Alaniz 12-Jun-18
oldgoat 12-Jun-18
RonG 12-Jun-18
Draven 12-Jun-18
Draven 12-Jun-18
Phil 12-Jun-18
Draven 12-Jun-18
Babysaph 13-Jun-18
Babbling Bob 14-Jun-18
Jinkster 14-Jun-18
RonG 14-Jun-18
Iwander 14-Jun-18
K Cummings 15-Jun-18
Eric Krewson 15-Jun-18
George Tsoukalas 15-Jun-18
RonG 15-Jun-18
Jimmy Blackmon 15-Jun-18
Scott Alaniz 15-Jun-18
Babbling Bob 15-Jun-18
Frisky 15-Jun-18
Hico 15-Jun-18
Draven 15-Jun-18
PECO 15-Jun-18
K Cummings 16-Jun-18
Jimmy Blackmon 16-Jun-18
chazz847 16-Jun-18
Flash 16-Jun-18
fdp 16-Jun-18
CMF_3 16-Jun-18
Frisky 17-Jun-18
crookedstix 17-Jun-18
rallison 17-Jun-18
From: Jimmy Blackmon
Date: 10-Jun-18




Thought you might enjoy a note I sent to business leaders I work with... Thanks to an operator in the distro list who sent this article over. It reinforces what he and I have been preaching for years - It's the swordsman, not the sword. As a competitive long distance runner, I saw weekend warriors show up to races in the newest racing flats, most expensive trainers, and Nike's best gear. They looked the part, but when it came time to run, it was about the sweat they left on the track in training that mattered most. Not what they wore. I know archers who buy the newest bow on the market annually. They keep hoping that they will find that magic combination and finally start winning. They spend a small fortune on equipment when they should be putting time in the bank at the range. The truth is that the guys winning could still win even if they were forced to shoot a more primitive bow, just like the guys winning road races could win in heavy old worn out training shoes. Cycling is no different. The best $10K bike in the world won't make a lazy man win the Tour de France. Yet, we are gadget focused. 5th generation fighter jets are worthless if you don't have the money to train in them. Invest in the fighter pilot and give him "good enough" equipment and he'll win your war. At the end of the day, it always comes down to blocking and tackling. Hard work in any field is what ultimately pays off. Best, Jimmy Stop throwing gear at the things you suck at in shooting SOFREP Original Content BY KURT T 06.10.2018#EXPERT ANALYSISEMAIL SHARE TWEET

“There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” — Miyamoto Musashi, “The Book of Five Rings”

Getting “cool guy” gear and tricking out your firearm is awesome, I have several mods and bits of gear I swear by. I routinely trick out my firearms with parts that I feel give me a performance related edge. It is important to realize, however, that these modifications and accessories are not solutions to any shortcomings in technique though. If your skills are lacking in any area, stop attempting to compensate for those shortcomings by applying external additives. Instead train in the fundamentals and perfect the things that you suck through rigorous training.

If you suck at marksmanship, spend more time at the range shooting and practicing the fundamentals of marksmanshipthrough dry-fire off the range. If you suck at reloads, do more reload drills. If you suck at drawing from a holster, practice drawing your gun more often. It all sounds so obvious but far too often people spend the money on equipment instead of training. You will get far better at shooting with a base model gun and 1000 rounds of ammo than you will with a tricked-out gun and 100 rounds. For a couple hundred dollars a month you can afford to shoot and improve consistently. For the cost of around $1000 a year, you could take a training course (should you feel that such a thing would benefit you). I’ve seen guys spend far more than that on an optic for a gun they shoot once a year. If you can afford to do both, go for it but the main thing is that experience and training are far more valuable.

High-speed gear and tricked out guns are cool as hell but you look like an asshole with all that expensive stuff if you suck at using it. If you’re like me, you don’t have a big budget. So, spend your money on improving your skills rather than attempting to buy skill by way of external additives. A Tapout shirt doesn’t make a fighter, gym clothes don’t make someone an athlete, and “operator” kit doesn’t make you a gunfighter. Train efficiently, safely, and often if you want to be a better shooter. The guy with a couple of simple guns and a whole lot of hours behind them will always be a dangerous customer.

stop-throwing-gear-at-the-things-you-suck-at-in-shooting

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 10-Jun-18




Totally agree

From: grizz
Date: 10-Jun-18




;^)

From: cedar shooter
Date: 10-Jun-18




Very true.

From: ChuckC
Date: 10-Jun-18




Not related to the topic , but I have to tell you that "Palehorse" was an awesome read. What an honor it must have been to have had the privilege to have led such courageous men and women. You sir, are a patriot and true American hero. Thank you so much for your service!

From: JusPassin Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 10-Jun-18




No truer words were ever spoken, but it won't matter as most still won't get it.

Back in the early 80's I shot professional PPC matches (police pistol combat). I'd often shoot over 1000 rounds a week in practice and even managed to get a couple of medals shooting the Nationals. It never failed that you would see guys with every fancy new tricked out gizmo loaded gun and gear box come up to the line and not be able to get her done.

Here is the rule of thumb, it held then and holds now. If your skill level doesn't place you in the top 10% of competitors, NOTHING you can buy will put you in the winners circle.

From: song dog
Date: 10-Jun-18




Beware the man who has one gun or one bow and knows how to use it.

From: Archre167
Date: 10-Jun-18




Agreed! and well said

From: fdp
Date: 10-Jun-18




Yep.

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 10-Jun-18




Like to add a couple of things to Jimmy’s advice. Perfect Practice makes a good Archer not a 100 half assed arrows. Also the best Archers spend most of their time @ 5 yards or less.

From: RonG
Date: 10-Jun-18




Liquid Tension, you are correct, because I can't see or walk past 5 yards.....Ha!Ha!

I'm old.

I average 70 arrows in the morning and about that many at night every day that I can.

Stick with your favorite and get so good that you can just pick it up anytime and hit what you want.

From: longshot
Date: 10-Jun-18




Amen brother!

From: Jim Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 10-Jun-18




Very good "Food For Thought"!

From: Draven
Date: 10-Jun-18




There is a silent rule between a specific type of swordsmen: if you bring a fancy sword to an event, be sure you have the skills to back up your message.

From: Babbling Bob Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 10-Jun-18




The guides in the Adirondacks used to call their clients "Slicks", 'cause they had the best of the best in gear but not too much experience using it.

From: M60gunner
Date: 10-Jun-18




We know this to be true yet I will bet 99% of those that agree will in their lifetime have begged, borrowed, bought an archery or hunting item cause it was touted as the best of the best. After all it’s what makes the world go round and keeps our suppliers, bowyers, etc. in business.

From: Bassman Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 10-Jun-18




Practice makes perfect or something like that.

From: Sirius Black
Date: 10-Jun-18




Agreed!

From: Styksnstryngs
Date: 10-Jun-18




At one of the first indoor FITA (world archery) tournaments I went to with my Olympic recurve, there was a girl that looked like a pro, with a red fusion Hoyt riser and uukha limbs. Her lane was the far right, next to the wall, and she glanced a few arrows off of that wall. I learned a lot that day...

From: RonG
Date: 10-Jun-18




Styksnstryngs, I used to see it at the gun range also.

Hey maybe she was doing like Byron with the deflection shots.

Never could afford the best, working man here.

From: Caughtandhobble
Date: 10-Jun-18




Good read, like always my Friend :)

From: hawkeye in PA
Date: 10-Jun-18




Yes, very true.

From: Jimmy Blackmon
Date: 10-Jun-18




ChuckC that's very kind of you to say. I am glad you enjoyed PALE HORSE. Sincerely

From: StikBow
Date: 10-Jun-18




The Marines teach the most important distance on the battlefield is the 6 inches between your ears. Equipment does not make the man, but a man proficient with his equipment gets the job done.

From: Hal9000
Date: 10-Jun-18




"Also the best Archers spend most of their time @ 5 yards or less."

one of the best barebow archers I know (290 average on a 300 round) told me shooting under 60 yards won't tell you anything about your tuning or your form.

From: skookum
Date: 10-Jun-18




Jimmy, YOUR POST IS RIGHT ON! It seems that the moniker of "Traditional Archery" is evolving into the "Latest and Greatest Equipment Archery"!

From: Brad Lehmann
Date: 10-Jun-18




Anyone that says it's not the gear has never tried a shotgun that has been custom fitted to him. I agree with some of what you say but also know that high quality gear that fits makes a big difference.

From: Jimmy Blackmon
Date: 10-Jun-18




Brad - no disputing that quality gear makes "a difference," but for the average guy it's not a huge game changer. ie. I rode bikes with a guy who had an old road bike. My modern Trek road bike would coast faster down a big hill than he could ride. If neither of us peddled, I would leave him like he was standing still. The machine makes a difference. BUT, I rode with another guy who was slightly overweight. He spent a fortune to purchase Shimano Dura Ace components because he wanted the best and it saved him a few ounces. I told him why not lose the caboose? He could drop pounds that way. The Dura Ace was doing him no better than 105 components.

Again, the top shooters are the top shooters. They difference is their commitment to a solid shot sequence that they can repeat. It takes a lot of work and continuous commitment to training. That will trump a new bow. Does that mean they shoot a fiberglass kids bow? No. But you get my point.

From: monkeyball
Date: 10-Jun-18




I was in a Tri race once (run, bike,paddle) borrowed a road bike, bought running shoes two days before, and borrowed a 17' Grumman standard.

I would have been in my latter 20's, and it was after a rough divorce, and I was just in that kind of mood if you know what I mean.

Hit the water the same time that another fellow did, only he was in a Kevlar boat, needless to say he finished before me.

You put two guys with the same fitness level on a Walmart bike and and the other one on full Carbon setup.......wonder who is going to give who a lesson?

Good Shooting->->->->Craig

From: Draven
Date: 10-Jun-18




Scenario: One guy wants the best bow he can afford to start learning to shoot traditional. First day at the range he comes with his new bow and everybody is looking after him to see how is doing. He can't hit the a thing, people start to talk behind him. The guy feels uncomfortable and he never comes again. Aftermath Questions: 1. Why people can't mind their business? 2. Why all should start with Samick Sage just because all should feel equal?

I endorse the saying: is not the tool, is the man behind it. But I don't really support the rest. Their money, their life their goals, their everything.

From: Fletch
Date: 10-Jun-18




I agree.

I used to shoot Smallbore 3-position rifle ( and air rifle/ offhand) on 1st team college varsity rifle team.

I had a piece of masking tape stuck on the side of my 22 ( Anschutz 1413 free rifle) with a motto I found and wrote on it:

“ No man is in competition with another man He is in conflict with his own errors.”

I still believe in that saying. My Smallbore days are behind me, and I hope I have more archery days ahead of me ( rehabbing right shoulder/ supraspinatus surgery). It’s a good feeling to outshoot guys with $1000 bows when I shoot my Samick Journey ($140).

The Marine Corps training manual for bullseye pistol marksmanship directs something like 70% of the training/ practice time to dry firing, and the balance with live ammo ( roughly 2:1 dry fire: live fire). Technique and mental discipline trump all.

From: Fletch
Date: 10-Jun-18




Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol. Website.

Great source of training, fundamentals and mental training. It is applicable to all shooting sports.

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/index.htm

From: Sipsey River
Date: 10-Jun-18




There is a lot of good advice on this site, most of which is ignored too often. Too many would prefer to look for the magic bow rather than put in the work to fix their improper shooting form or habits. One thing that Rod Jenkins said to us in one of his clinics that I almost ignored because I did not understand or agree was that we should not care where the arrow goes. My first reaction was total disagreement, why would we be shooting if we do not care where the arrow goes? Well, over time I have learned how important that statement is. If I stay on focus concerning the form as opposed to concentrating on the score of the arrow, my form is good and the arrow ends up , most of the time, where I want it. It is about proper shooting form, not a fast arrow, not a great bow, string material etc. I began shooting at about the age of 10 and I was in my early 60's before I went thru the clinic and learned the proper way to shoot.

From: Babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 10-Jun-18




One of my hunting buddies used to say that it didn't matter if he never killed a deer as long as he looks good

From: DanaC
Date: 11-Jun-18




Someone once said that good equipment doesn't get in the way. While some fits better, as long as the equipment doesn't distract you, it's fine.

A bow that stacks, doesn't suit your hand, rattles or whatever is distracting. Otherwise, shoot your shot.

From: K Cummings
Date: 11-Jun-18




"...no disputing that quality gear makes "a difference," but for the average guy it's not a huge game changer."

Very good point Jimmy.

In my opinion, this is evidenced by the scores the Olympians were shooting 30 or 40 years ago, with equipment that by todays standards would be considered "entry level."

I came to the reality long ago that while some archers are good enough to exploit certain specific design features, I'm not one of them, nor do I have the ability or desire to become one of them.

KPC

From: PECO
Date: 11-Jun-18




I have a Sage, it shoots as well as any of my other bows.

From: RonG
Date: 11-Jun-18




If you are all using a longbow or recurve or compound (god forbid) I believe it doesn't matter who makes it, a $300.00 bow will shoot an arrow as accurately as a $2,000 bow, it's all in the guy behind it. Some of the gadgets just makes it easier for the not so dedicated archer to score well.

Just dig up some of the scores from the early days and they match the scores of today.

Now you can't mix them, like putting a compound against a longbow at 40 yards, but I bet Byron Ferguson with a longbow could out shoot anyone with a compound proving Mr. Blackmons point.

From: Fuzzy
Date: 11-Jun-18




that's it, I'm returning my new Air Jordans

From: Draven
Date: 11-Jun-18




"...but I bet Byron Ferguson with a longbow could out shoot anyone with a compound proving Mr. Blackmons point."

Ron, "anyone" is a dangerous word. A competition oriented compound shooter will win 100% against a longbow or recurve. A longbow and recurve can hold their own against average compound shooters, but to outshoot a compound shooter it means the compound shooter is nowhere near trained to a competitive level. There is a reason why 3D teams are: longbow, recurve and compound. The compound shooter is expected to get the X. Skills will bring you high, but they can't trump a skilled person with better tools.

From: RymanCat
Date: 11-Jun-18




Yup bare down and letem have it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steady at the shot!

Aint the price of the bow who makes the man but now do you want to dance with the ugly ducks?LOL

I don't and never did that's why my bows are over the top tricked out.

As long as I haven enough arrows.LOL

From: K Cummings
Date: 11-Jun-18




"That's it, I'm returning my new Air Jordans."

Me too Fuzzy. I returned those AND the baggy shorts. I even shaved my head and I STILL couldn't dunk.

KPC

From: Fletch
Date: 11-Jun-18




I will add...

decent equipment is needed. All errors are additive. The questions is where are the greatest source of errors. I benchrest gun has minimal human impact ( yes, you have to red the wind, and have good trigger control, bu the bench is holding the gun. For top shooting, a good barrel, good action, bedding job, scope is needed).

Compare that to a person shooting a rifle offhand, (or one hand bullseye pistol, or bowshooting). The body, and technique are the largest source of errors. Benchrest-quality barrel, capable of shooting 0.1" @ 100 yards is great, but if you can only hold for a 4 inch group, this is not money well-spent. The greatest gain in smaller groups is better offhand/pistol/ bow technique.\

At what point does a recurve shooter gain a benefit from shooting Easton Tributes xx75 aluminum shaft ($3/shaft) with a certain amount of runout, to "the ultimate" arrow with minimal weight/straightness variation. At some point, higher quality equipment reduces some degree of additive error, and groups improve ( but you still have to prove it o your outfit). But, if you stink at range estimation of a target, you give up that benefit of equipment-based error reduction by adding more error/ impact deviation, from poor range estimation. It's precision vs. accuracy. It's the difference of being a shooter vs a rifleman, or a shooter vs a true archer (defining it who maximizes the capability of the shooting system... gun or or bow).

""better " equipment can, and does make a difference, when you can take advantage of it. Most can't, and don't. Some equipment doesn't do anything for improvement, just looks. But overall, the prime source of error for shooting is the person holding the device.

From: DanaC
Date: 12-Jun-18




"But overall, the prime source of error for shooting is the person holding the device. "

Yep, one of the great shortcomings of human nature is that we check the handle nut last ;-)

From: John Cooper
Date: 12-Jun-18




Jimmy my friend you just busted about 2/3 of the guy's on here's bubble..... man you know you have to have the latest and greatest super wicking and non sticking camo, the $1000.00 carbon footprint, non stinking hunting boots and at least $5000.00 in the bow, arrows and broadheads.

Good post sir!!!!!!!!

From: shade mt
Date: 12-Jun-18




A friend told me about a comment he heard while trailering his boat at lake Raystown. A number of " real fishermen " with the latest expensive bass boats, expensive electronics, and gear where standing around commenting on the tough fishing.

A guy motor's up to the launch in an old jon boat, with an old 2 stroke motor. Everyone is watching him and someone comments, with a snide chuckle...."I doubt he caught anything either"

Everybody's mouth about dropped when he opened the livewell and revealed a catch of Big stripers. Turned out what the guy lacked in gear, he made up for in ability.

Bowhunting is pretty much the same way.....You can turn up your nose all you want at a 150.00 samick. But truthfully it kills deer just as well as a 1000.00 custom.

hard pill for some to swallow, and I suppose they never will.

I don't get the impression Jimmy was saying there is anything wrong with good gear. But expensive gear will not make up for lack of ability.

Ability, is achieved through hard work determination and practice, which gives experience and ability.

You cannot buy that.

From: RonG
Date: 12-Jun-18




Draven, The point and discussion here is the equipment doesn't make the archer.

It doesn't matter what you use, it's the person driving the car.

You take a trained person shooting a compound without sites, mechanical releases or any stuff that makes it a non bow and I guarantee they couldn't hold a candle to Mr. Ferguson, I don't care who they are. Now I know that he as well as a few folks have a gift that a lot of us wish we had that allows his abilities to surpass most everyones.

The point is you don't need a special bow to shoot well, Mr. Blackmon was putting a point across to people that buying all the latest crap that comes out won't make you an Olympic archer overnight, it takes dedication, practice and knowledge to be a great archer not the equipment.

Look at what Mr. Blackmon does with a 1971 Bear Tamerlane, I don't believe too many folks will out shoot him. You won't find any new fangled heat seeking devices on that bow.

As mentioned above the equipment does help if you are capable of using it...again, the driver, not the equipment.

From: Jimmy Blackmon
Date: 12-Jun-18




Well put shade mt. I am not bashing good gear, but it will not make up for a bad shot.

From: Draven
Date: 12-Jun-18




Ron, I know. But also I think we have to stop creating myths, even if are just to enhance an idea. On the other hand you just took out all the advantages from shooting a compound to make your point. I agree is the indian not the tool, but at one point we have to stop thinking that the tools are not important. If they were not, they wouldn't created different divisions in competitive archery. Each tool comes with its advantages. The subject here is more about a shout-out against fancy tools that will not make you better than you are.

From: Scott Alaniz
Date: 12-Jun-18




Lots of good points.

A few years ago I took my dad to the San Juan river in NM for some trout fishing and some great New Mexico food.

I had been flyfishing for 5 or 6 years and had all the latest high-end gear and gizmos.

His entire setup and gear were from Walmart. But, he's fished a lot -- all his life -- mostly for crappie and probably only flyfished 4 or 5 times. He schooled me. Felt proud and embarrassed at the same time.

Scott

From: oldgoat
Date: 12-Jun-18




The gear is half the fun for me and I shoot better than I hunt, but I still get it done once in a while. Plus I work 60 to 70+ hours a week most of the year, I have more money than I have time, but I can shop on my breaks at work! Better gear might not make me a better hunter, but it can make me a more comfortable hunter and able to stay at it longer!

From: RonG
Date: 12-Jun-18




Hey folks!!!!!!! the point is that you are the only thing that can make the successful archer, the equipment makes it easier, but you still have to practice and learn the sport. I was also pointing out that you are the final link to your success as an archer not your equipment.

Read what Jimmy typed again, I think everyone has gotten off track.

From: Draven
Date: 12-Jun-18




That’s stating the obvious Ron. I mean, who really thinks his snikkers will make him Jordan? If there is a person who thinks in this way I have two words: publicity brainwash.

From: Draven
Date: 12-Jun-18




Snickers * How the double k happened I don’t know but I assume is me not the cell. That’s the topic point too.

From: Phil
Date: 12-Jun-18




What's that saying ... "all the gear and no idea"

From: Draven
Date: 12-Jun-18




That’s a general opinion made by a superficial observer. I ask again where does it states you have to begin with cheap gear? 5 years ago a new student came in the dojo with best Iaido gi he can buy and the best iaito he could get. Total spent was around $1500 and he didin’t even know if he will find the art to fit him. Do you think someone said a thing about this? No! Good for him, it showed he was interested and he researched by himself - he was serious about his hobby. And he started the training. Gear is not the issue, the attitude behind it is different thing.

From: Babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 13-Jun-18




But A black widow bkw will make you shoot better.

From: Babbling Bob Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Jun-18




Always tried to buy the best and fanciest 'cause that's what I liked. Didn't give a hoot to holler what anybody else thought. That way with my first bows, hunting gear like custom pack mocs, my camping gear, best varmit rifle with a target barrell, etc. Was the poorest in my life then and had to think about how much gas cost to go anywhere, but sure had great equipment.

Money's easier now, but I don't have or buy the best of the best anymore. Nowdays however, for what I do have, I'm mighty thankful.

From: Jinkster
Date: 14-Jun-18




Who's going to explain this too Frisky?

From: RonG
Date: 14-Jun-18




I give up and obviously you folks should have figured Jimmy gave up a while ago, you are everywhere, except the point he was trying to get across.

From: Iwander
Date: 14-Jun-18




Amen Brother Blackmon!

From: K Cummings
Date: 15-Jun-18




I think a number of people are missing Jimmy's point.

There is nothing wrong with owning and enjoying quality, custom, or expensive equipment. However, if you are expecting those things to take you to the next level in terms of your shooting, you are going to be continually disappointed.

KPC

From: Eric Krewson
Date: 15-Jun-18




I agree completely.

I gave an osage bow to Julia Norris, to say that Julia can shoot is an understatement. At the Nationals in Cloverdale last week she won the selfbow class by 60 points.

In the 5 gal shoot off she beat the other ladies with an osage selfbow and wood arrows. The competition were shooting modern gear.

It sure wasn't the bow that won.

From: George Tsoukalas
Date: 15-Jun-18




Pretty much true. Jawge

From: RonG
Date: 15-Jun-18




Thank You Eric!!!!!!!!!!!

From: Jimmy Blackmon
Date: 15-Jun-18




In a last ditch effort to reiterate the point...

I will type slow.

New equipment DOES NOT equal Bad. I love new bows and arrows and and and and...

BUT, this year's mode of the Hoodie Swifty Recurve is not going to improve my shooting over last year's model. Yes, if you are shooting with a paper clip and rubber band, a newer bow will probably make a difference, but I didn't say that was the case.

I said, quality practice is what will make the difference in your shooting. That should be the focus.

It's like the fat guy that spends $2000 on lighter bicycle components that will save him 3 ounces of total bike weight. All he had to do was diet and ride more. That would have saved him 3 pounds.

From: Scott Alaniz
Date: 15-Jun-18




Well said KPC!

From: Babbling Bob Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 15-Jun-18




A new bow can give a mental boost. However, an old bow that is really super looking can too no matter where it stands in the line of other bows regarding performance. So can a relatively new bow where there is familiarity and confidence with shooting it. An old 1940's D type can help too if that is what someone seems to feel like matches their shooting.

From: Frisky
Date: 15-Jun-18




It's actually silly how crazy all of you non-hunters (including Jimmy) go over equipment, when I already have a lock on the best bows. Get out of your tree stands and pop-ups and start hunting like men and not worrying about equipment. Forget your food plots, leases and scents and scent blockers and be men for a change. If you aren't hunting like Ishi, you aren't hunting and you aren't hunters!

Joe

From: Hico
Date: 15-Jun-18




Yes-most missed the point that Jimmy was making-he is talking about us.The top few shooters need the better equipment. Sad day for those that are always on here bragging about their new bows!!

From: Draven
Date: 15-Jun-18




Nobody missed any point unless someone really need to be told obvious things like: The water is wet, the circle is round or equipment is just a tool. Funny how here some talk about the equipment is not making you better than you really are, but when a new archer asks what to buy invariable answer is "buy ILF riser".

From: PECO
Date: 15-Jun-18




Take any compound shooter, against Byron on multiple disciplines, and the compound guy looses. Moving targets, multiple distances without a range finder, compound guy going down.

From: K Cummings
Date: 16-Jun-18

K Cummings's embedded Photo



"Get out of your tree stands and pop-ups and start hunting like men and not worrying about equipment. Forget your food plots, leases and scents and scent blockers and be men for a change. If you aren't hunting like Ishi, you aren't hunting and you aren't hunters!"

FWIW, a lot of people don't know this but Ishi actually invented and attempted to market the first "pop-up blind." He called it the YANA HOUSE.

It was a pain to set up and it wasn't very portable so it never really caught on.

A number of years later, Ameristep purchased Ishi's patent, reworked a few things, called it the OUTHOUSE, and as they say, the rest is history.

KPC

From: Jimmy Blackmon
Date: 16-Jun-18




Oh Frisky...LOL

From: chazz847
Date: 16-Jun-18




I agree that all the latest and gear will not be the answer. do your homework.

From: Flash
Date: 16-Jun-18




Hey PECO, have you seen Tim Wells shoot? Would be a great competition to watch... Byron might get schooled.

From: fdp
Date: 16-Jun-18




"Moving targets, multiple distances without a range finder, compound guy going down."

I'm a big Byron fan, but that's a fallacy. Chris Brackett for one would stay with Byron shot for shot, rangefinder or not, compound or not. Whether you can or can't hit moving targets, can or can't judge distance etc. has -0- to do with the gear you choose and everything to do with the person using the gear. That's Leatherwall garbage.

Guys and gals that can shoot are guys and gals that can shoot, and it don't make a hill of beans what they are shooting.

From: CMF_3
Date: 16-Jun-18




Preach!

From: Frisky
Date: 17-Jun-18




Well, I guess my statement was a little over the top, but I still want everyone to hunt in Ishi fashion.

Joe

From: crookedstix
Date: 17-Jun-18




Draven X 2.

As with almost any sport or game, we each pursue archery for the pleasure it brings us. Some enjoy winning contests; some enjoy taking game animals; some enjoy making their own equipment and shooting it at stumps or at the sky.

The trouble starts when we assume that any single approach is the "point" of archery, and start talking about how the "best" archers do this or that, or the "best" gear should function in a certain way. For my money, the "best" archers are the ones who derive the maximumm enjoyment from the sort, whatever their path.

BUT--if your goal is to become the best marksman with bow and arrow that you can, then I would certainly agree with the majority her, i.e. that both physical/mental aptitude and proper training are way more important than the gear you use.

From: rallison
Date: 17-Jun-18




I coached hockey for 34 years. The design and cost of today's equipment is staggering... $300 for ONE STICK!?!?

My players would ohh and ahh over their new skates, sticks, or whatever.

I told em...boys, you can't "buy" talent.

Sweat equity is a different story....





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