Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Canoes and Kayaks

Messages posted to thread:
76aggie 06-Jun-18
D31 06-Jun-18
deerfly 06-Jun-18
Tundra 06-Jun-18
vabowman 06-Jun-18
9/10 Broke 06-Jun-18
White Falcon 06-Jun-18
PEARL DRUMS 06-Jun-18
limbwalker 06-Jun-18
Mountain Man 06-Jun-18
ground hunter 06-Jun-18
Riverwolf 06-Jun-18
Bowguy 06-Jun-18
2 bears 06-Jun-18
Hal9000 06-Jun-18
Hal9000 06-Jun-18
9/10 Broke 06-Jun-18
Mountain Man 06-Jun-18
Thumper 06-Jun-18
Fisher Cat 06-Jun-18
bowbert 06-Jun-18
reddogge 06-Jun-18
South Farm 06-Jun-18
olddogrib 06-Jun-18
limbwalker 06-Jun-18
elkster 06-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 06-Jun-18
ron w 06-Jun-18
elkster 06-Jun-18
limbwalker 06-Jun-18
reddogge 06-Jun-18
White Falcon 06-Jun-18
Thumper 06-Jun-18
gradymaci 06-Jun-18
deerfly 06-Jun-18
Thumper 06-Jun-18
Thumper 06-Jun-18
Riverwolf 06-Jun-18
deerfly 06-Jun-18
Lost arrow 06-Jun-18
76aggie 06-Jun-18
Jon Stewart 06-Jun-18
76aggie 06-Jun-18
Mountain Man 06-Jun-18
Bowguy 06-Jun-18
Muddyboots 06-Jun-18
Bowguy 06-Jun-18
Andy Man 06-Jun-18
Riverwolf 06-Jun-18
Pinecrest 06-Jun-18
gradymaci 06-Jun-18
Hal9000 06-Jun-18
Hal9000 06-Jun-18
stonepoint 06-Jun-18
hawkeye in PA 06-Jun-18
Two-more-steps 06-Jun-18
RonG 06-Jun-18
ground hunter 06-Jun-18
threadbare 06-Jun-18
limbwalker 06-Jun-18
reddogge 06-Jun-18
Jakeemt 06-Jun-18
Suedog 07-Jun-18
mangonboat 07-Jun-18
Bernie P. 07-Jun-18
South Farm 07-Jun-18
Will tell 07-Jun-18
Yellow Dog 07-Jun-18
vthunter 07-Jun-18
Hal9000 07-Jun-18
bigdog21 07-Jun-18
ground hunter 07-Jun-18
ground hunter 07-Jun-18
RonG 07-Jun-18
Kodiak 07-Jun-18
limbwalker 07-Jun-18
monkeyball 07-Jun-18
monkeyball 07-Jun-18
South Farm 07-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 07-Jun-18
Ron LaClair 07-Jun-18
LightPaw 07-Jun-18
monkeyball 07-Jun-18
Two-more-steps 07-Jun-18
cobra 07-Jun-18
dean 07-Jun-18
South Farm 07-Jun-18
Stephengiles 07-Jun-18
Hal9000 07-Jun-18
Gvdocholiday 07-Jun-18
gradymaci 07-Jun-18
jjs 07-Jun-18
Hal9000 07-Jun-18
Hal9000 07-Jun-18
dean 07-Jun-18
peter.p 07-Jun-18
limbwalker 07-Jun-18
dean 07-Jun-18
Bowlim 08-Jun-18
DanaC 08-Jun-18
D31 08-Jun-18
GF 08-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 08-Jun-18
South Farm 08-Jun-18
limbwalker 08-Jun-18
limbwalker 08-Jun-18
limbwalker 08-Jun-18
Riverwolf 08-Jun-18
Riverwolf 08-Jun-18
Riverwolf 08-Jun-18
Riverwolf 08-Jun-18
Riverwolf 08-Jun-18
Riverwolf 08-Jun-18
Riverwolf 08-Jun-18
limbwalker 08-Jun-18
Riverwolf 08-Jun-18
9/10 Broke 08-Jun-18
gradymaci 08-Jun-18
gradymaci 08-Jun-18
South Farm 08-Jun-18
Hal9000 08-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 08-Jun-18
gradymaci 08-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 08-Jun-18
crookedstix 08-Jun-18
Thumper 08-Jun-18
limbwalker 08-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 08-Jun-18
limbwalker 08-Jun-18
limbwalker 08-Jun-18
9/10 Broke 08-Jun-18
Buckshot 08-Jun-18
Hal9000 08-Jun-18
grizz 08-Jun-18
TrapperKayak 08-Jun-18
crookedstix 09-Jun-18
Snowshoe 09-Jun-18
Snowshoe 09-Jun-18
limbwalker 09-Jun-18
mangonboat 09-Jun-18
H Rhodes 09-Jun-18
H Rhodes 09-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 09-Jun-18
limbwalker 09-Jun-18
dean 09-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 09-Jun-18
dean 09-Jun-18
limbwalker 09-Jun-18
Kodiak 09-Jun-18
limbwalker 09-Jun-18
Riverwolf 09-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 09-Jun-18
Kodiak 09-Jun-18
Lost arrow 09-Jun-18
dean 09-Jun-18
dean 09-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 09-Jun-18
Riverwolf 09-Jun-18
dean 09-Jun-18
GF 09-Jun-18
limbwalker 09-Jun-18
dean 09-Jun-18
Thogg 09-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 10-Jun-18
limbwalker 10-Jun-18
dean 10-Jun-18
dean 10-Jun-18
dean 10-Jun-18
dean 10-Jun-18
Riverwolf 10-Jun-18
Riverwolf 10-Jun-18
Riverwolf 10-Jun-18
Kodiak 10-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 10-Jun-18
limbwalker 10-Jun-18
dean 10-Jun-18
limbwalker 10-Jun-18
dean 10-Jun-18
Hal9000 10-Jun-18
offtheshelf 10-Jun-18
GF 10-Jun-18
Gaur 11-Jun-18
Gaur 11-Jun-18
Gaur 11-Jun-18
South Farm 11-Jun-18
South Farm 11-Jun-18
limbwalker 11-Jun-18
Gaur 11-Jun-18
LaGriz 11-Jun-18
Kodiak 11-Jun-18
LaGriz 11-Jun-18
limbwalker 11-Jun-18
76aggie 11-Jun-18
GF 11-Jun-18
Gaur 11-Jun-18
limbwalker 11-Jun-18
LaGriz 11-Jun-18
TommyBoy 11-Jun-18
Kodiak 11-Jun-18
dean 11-Jun-18
joe vt 11-Jun-18
TommyBoy 11-Jun-18
limbwalker 12-Jun-18
dean 12-Jun-18
Kodiak 12-Jun-18
TrapperKayak 12-Jun-18
limbwalker 12-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 12-Jun-18
Ron LaClair 12-Jun-18
Hal9000 12-Jun-18
Lost arrow 12-Jun-18
TommyBoy 12-Jun-18
TommyBoy 12-Jun-18
Mountain Man 12-Jun-18
limbwalker 12-Jun-18
dean 12-Jun-18
limbwalker 12-Jun-18
gradymaci 12-Jun-18
Trooper 12-Jun-18
dean 12-Jun-18
dean 12-Jun-18
limbwalker 12-Jun-18
dean 12-Jun-18
TrapperKayak 12-Jun-18
TrapperKayak 12-Jun-18
limbwalker 12-Jun-18
Kodiak 12-Jun-18
Riverwolf 12-Jun-18
dean 12-Jun-18
dean 12-Jun-18
TrapperKayak 13-Jun-18
Ron LaClair 13-Jun-18
LaGriz 13-Jun-18
dean 13-Jun-18
elkster 13-Jun-18
limbwalker 13-Jun-18
dean 14-Jun-18
TrapperKayak 14-Jun-18
limbwalker 14-Jun-18
dean 14-Jun-18
Ron LaClair 14-Jun-18
TrapperKayak 14-Jun-18
GF 14-Jun-18
dean 14-Jun-18
TrapperKayak 14-Jun-18
Bow hunt in a canoe 14-Jun-18
dean 15-Jun-18
limbwalker 15-Jun-18
LaGriz 15-Jun-18
dean 15-Jun-18
elkster 15-Jun-18
Ron LaClair 16-Jun-18
BIG BEAR 16-Jun-18
Ron LaClair 16-Jun-18
lost run 17-Jun-18
limbwalker 17-Jun-18
ground hunter 17-Jun-18
Ron LaClair 17-Jun-18
GF 18-Jun-18
jjs 18-Jun-18
Bill Rickvalsky 18-Jun-18
lost run 18-Jun-18
dean 18-Jun-18
dean 18-Jun-18
From: 76aggie
Date: 06-Jun-18




I would like to get some feedback from you nautical type hunters. When I retire, I will be moving to my place which is bordered by a small river. Not at all a big river, but generally not wide and is fairly slow flowing. It runs through a lot of public land. My aim is to get a canoe or kayak to gain access to some public hunting but I have little experience with canoes or kayaks. I played around with a 2 man inflatable kayak last weekend and found it exceptionally stable but I don't think inflatable one would stand up over the long haul. Can you guys express some of your opinions on what would be a good craft and be able to carry a hunter and a deer. Stability is a primary concern as is durability.

From: D31
Date: 06-Jun-18




Gheenoe boat is a great choice. They are designed like a canoe except the sidewalls flare out under the water line.

When you lean to one side the flare on the opposite side is attempting to pick up the weight of the water above it. They are rated for larger motors than a similar size canoe.

They actually use them for flat fishing in the shallows in the gulf. They are stable enough to put a elevated casting platform on.

Check out there website, there not cheap but I have managed to find two in my area that were under 500$. After getting one you may never go back to a traditional canoe. Good Day.

From: deerfly
Date: 06-Jun-18




14'-16' canoe, solo or tandem is far more utilitarian for hunting and fishing than any size or style of kayak.

Personally I prefer a 15.5' solo canoe, but they are not stable as far as canoes go, so if you are balance challenged you'll probably want something around 33" at the waterline.

Either way what works best for you will be a matter of your weight, amount of gear and when the stars align, the size/weight of game you need to transport.

There are other considerations too. For example in my home state most WMA's have to be entered and exited via prescribed check stations. For those with water access that doesn't preclude the use of water access, only that you check in initially on land. Not convenient when you want to get in and out of the woods at optimum times. Also, deer need to remain whole until checked. Not a big deal in a canoe but could be in a kayak.

From: Tundra
Date: 06-Jun-18




10' Kayak or 10' 11' one-man canoe. Weight is a big factor, on your boat are you carrying it? If you kill a deer as long as you don't gut it right away you can tow it back to the truck or house it will float.

Kayak look at Assend Bass Pro or Jackson's... Canoe's there are many makes and model's out there.

I like a 10' kayak for weight and maneuverability.

From: vabowman
Date: 06-Jun-18




Most plastics today used in kayaks is super tough and canoes,are,even tougher with much more room. I'd buy a used canoe like old town or Dagger or even a Blue hole. Most can be bought for 500 and up.

Hope this helps.

Dewayne Martin

From: 9/10 Broke Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 06-Jun-18




I have an Old Town 15'8" canoe. I have used it to haul myself, my bow, a climber, a lock-on, a mountain bike and a small backpack in and twice have been lucky enough to haul the same stuff out plus a 120 pound deer. I am sure there are a lot of good canoes out there but the Old Town has been a good one. It is very stable. You can get one in kevlar that will be more expensive but is about half the weight. Mine is not kevlar and weighs 81 pounds. 30 years ago 81 pounds was lite. Not so much today. They also make attachable pontoons that I would recommend for cold weather. Good luck and stay safe.

From: White Falcon
Date: 06-Jun-18

White Falcon's embedded Photo



I find the kayak more stable. I have spent a lot of time in both.What I have now, plenty of room.

From: PEARL DRUMS
Date: 06-Jun-18




A 12' Radisson. It weighs 34#, very stable, very strong and will easily handle you, gear and a deer. I have two kayaks and two canoes. My sit on kayak is the best for fishing without comparison, my sit in kayak is the best for simple floats and my Radisson is the best for heavier loads or bumpy water. There isn't a kayak out there that would work well for you, gear and a deer. Most are 250-400# ratings and don't have the space for a deer.

From: limbwalker
Date: 06-Jun-18




Most folks that will discount kayaks haven't spent much time (if any) in today's modern kayaks. They are more stable than a canoe by a longshot. It's not even close.

Having said that, canoes can usually haul a heavier load because of the higher freeboard.

Be sure to try them both before you decide, and don't discount kayaks until you have actually spent some time paddling in them. I've been an avid kayaker for years and have used them in the surf, on lakes, streams and rivers. It still astounds me the ignorance most people have about kayaks. I get questions all the time about "do you roll upside down in yours?" and other nonsense. Everyone seems to think that every kayak is a whitewater kayak. Not even close to the truth these days.

If you're afraid at all of falling out of a boat, avoid canoes and look toward kayaks. If not, and you want more carrying capacity, look at canoes.

Different tools for different jobs. That's all.

From: Mountain Man
Date: 06-Jun-18

Mountain Man's embedded Photo



Ive paddled both quite a bit,,,i prefer a canoe personaly Gear an animals require stability

From: ground hunter
Date: 06-Jun-18




I have hunted on the water for a long long time,,,,,, from using the lower Wis River, to my place now in the UP, I have great access because of it,,,,,, been there done that,,,,,

Here is what 20 years or more of using a craft has taught me. It might look glamorous, but loading a deer, is a pia, in a small craft, so if your state allows, like mine does, break it down. I usually cut it in half, and take off the legs at the joints.

My best crafts, are for different applications.......

I have a 10 foot jon boat, that I use a 2hp internal gas tank on...... used it first in Canada...... I can row it if I have too, but I use it for hunting, islands on small lakes or bigger rivers,,,,,, (lower wis river for example)

I have a solo canoe, and its 10 foot, it will get me down and "BACK", (upstream), some of the smallest water, you will ever see, BUT, you have to be careful with such a canoe and will not handle well, on larger water, and you have to consider wind.

However, one guy can handle it easily, slides in the trucks and on top of the jeep like nothing.......

I am always consider weight, since I hunt solo. I also have a Raddison Canoe, it is 13 foot, Maxium length for a solo hunter in my opinion, but you can stand up in it, since it is wide in the middle, it even has oar locks, and its a square stern, in case I want to use the 2 hp on it........

I have a kayak, which is nice and fun, but I never found one really practical for bowhunting, but I shoot ducks out of it,,,

If your are interested in getting a canoe set up for all of your needs, pm me, I know a company in Wis, that makes some good ones.......

stay away from noisy, heavy, aluminum if you can

From: Riverwolf
Date: 06-Jun-18




A used OldTown camper...of Royalex ...Its(Royalex) material isn't made anymore , but plenty of used on the market . OLDTOWN camper is a great all around design. Easily soloed , carries a heavy load , does well on Rivers -lakes ..can be used tandem. Dagger legend is a Excellent design at 16' also ..very stable , 1200# payload , excellent on rivers and although slow on flat lakes , the stability makes up for such . Just the dagger legends are harder to come by...The also make the legend(made) in a 15" version more toward solo usage , but in my opinion its much more unstable with inital stability . I would look for a Oldtown camper ;) Also , lots of dealers up MN-WI-NY ways with tryout areas....and rentals . Good place for information and try before you buy ....

Best with the quest....

From: Bowguy Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 06-Jun-18




Personally I’d rather swim or even drown than kayak. My legs aren’t made for em. Now before some lover of kayaks gets all upset my experience is limited, but I have tried them, enough though I ain’t even considering it again. Canoes now, good ones, have real seats. You sit like a man not a yoga person. Plus all your items would fit and you’d still have room for a deer. It’s up to you. I had an old town I’d fish in at times. I’d stand and cast/paddle. It was that sturdy. They do have flattish bottoms

From: 2 bears
Date: 06-Jun-18




Either is a trade off. Both is best. A canoe for hauling gear. A yak for maverbility,less bother from the wind,and ease of loading and unloading. Even among canoes & Yaks there are many trade offs as to length and width. It is just hard to make one do it all. >>>-----> Ken

From: Hal9000
Date: 06-Jun-18




I have both, but my kayaks are old school thin glass ones that are made for speed (not stability) I am 5' 5" and have a 15' solo stripper.. I think its small. I would get a 16' tandem and sit in the front seat backward and put all the gear in the other end.

From: Hal9000
Date: 06-Jun-18




You can also use a double paddle with the canoe, makes it easier.

From: 9/10 Broke Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 06-Jun-18




I didn’t mention but I do sit in the front seat with the boat turned around backwards. I also use a clip on stadium seat so I’ve got a back rest.

From: Mountain Man
Date: 06-Jun-18




Or even a Scanoe! A flat back canoe so you can mount small motor

From: Thumper
Date: 06-Jun-18




Don't get a kayak, and don't get a canoe unless it's made from Royalex or kevlar. Kevlar is lightest by a long shot, but much more expensive.

Kayaks are too hard to get in and out of and carry gear. If you are going long distance on open water, and aren't getting out till you get where you're going, a kayak may be a decent choice.

The sit on top kayaks are heavy, hard to move by yourself out of the water, and paddle like dock floats. I wouldn't even consider one. And I work at a two brand kayak dealer.

The best choice is a canoe IMO. The polyethylene canoes are going to be durable and cheap, but are very heavy and tend to warp over time. Royalex canoes are much lighter, and just as durable. But Royalex was discontinued a few years back, and a suitable replacement was just found recently. So find a decent used one, but expect to pay a little more for one.

A 15-17 foot tandem canoe would work great for carrying a single person and gear, or two people and gear. If you go alone most always and carry a light load, a solo canoe would be the ideal choice. Either version made or Royalex would be about 42- 60 pounds. The same boat made from polyethylene would be at least 80 pounds or more.

I have a solo canoe and a 15 foot tandem canoe. Both Royalex. I couldn't be happier with them.

From: Fisher Cat
Date: 06-Jun-18




Hal, Does your 15' solo stripper help paddle or does she just dance? Got to get me one of those! ;^) - John

From: bowbert
Date: 06-Jun-18




I've used both canoes and kayaks for hunting and fishing since the 80's. Now I use a hobie with the mirage drive. Here is a video of my most recent moose hunt while using a kayak.

Bret

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPApDFncPGQ

From: reddogge
Date: 06-Jun-18




Canoe for hauling hunting gear, tree stands and dead deer safely. I'd stick with 16' myself. Boats shrink when on the water. Plus you can take a friend if you want one day.

From: South Farm
Date: 06-Jun-18




A kayak is great for maneuvering small rivers, but not so great at being able to haul dead critters. Canoes lack maneuverability upstream, however have infinite more cargo ability...Riverwolf mentioned Royalex and that is definitely the material you want if you can get it...quiet and bombproof (saved my life in the 1999 BWCAW blowdown!). Having said all that my first choice is a small 12-14' aluminum boat with a 5-8 hp motor...get yourself a rock- hopper for the lower unit and there's almost no place you can't go. If you can find a little "car-topper" on Craigslist they usually go pretty cheap.

From: olddogrib
Date: 06-Jun-18




Canoe, Royalex if you can find it....nuff said!

From: limbwalker
Date: 06-Jun-18




"i prefer a canoe personaly Gear an animals require stability..."

"Kayaks are too hard to get in and out of and carry gear..."

"The sit on top kayaks are heavy, hard to move by yourself out of the water, and paddle like dock floats..."

As I was saying...

Most comments like these I hear coming from older guys who grew up using canoes and don't have many (or any) time in a modern kayak.

If stability is what you're looking for, a kayak is the answer vs. a canoe any day. Anyone who has spent time in both can tell you that. If hauling heavy loads is of primary concern, then get the canoe.

I would never try to talk someone out of buying a good canoe, because they are very useful tools. But please don't spread nonsense about kayaks that simply isn't true. They aren't the fastest selling watercraft for the past decade for no reason. I would love to see the statistics on kayak vs. canoe sales for the past 20 years. I suspect it wouldn't even be close. Case in point - you can buy 3 kinds of kayaks at a small-town Wal-Mart or Tractor Supply, but you can't even buy one canoe.

From: elkster
Date: 06-Jun-18




Bowguy, You don't "sit like a yoga person" in a Native Kayak. It has a mesh seat much more comfortable than a standard canoe seat. So comfortable you detach it and sit in it on shore. I hog hunt from mine, weighs 30 lbs, made of kevlar. 400 lb. capacity.

There are several choices depending on how important weight is and if you want a motor.

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 06-Jun-18




You cannot apply a general comment or criticism that applies to either all canoes or all kayaks. You can find models of each that can probably suit your needs. But first you have to define the specifics of YOUR needs not mine or anybody else's.

My preference for an all around hunting utility craft would be a canoe. I (old person here) find a canoe easier to get in and out of and to manage a heavier load in. I would want that in a hunting canoe. The models I particularly like are the Old Town Discovery series. They come in several sizes so you can choose what you need. I have a Discovery 169 that I've had for over thirty years. They are made of a three layer polyethylene material. You absolutely cannot kill these canoes. Extremely durable. A little on the heavy side for their size. The smallest available is a 119 and it is listed at less than fifty pounds and is wide enough for reasonable stability. Of course you do have to put in some practice handling your canoe.

And, limbwalker, sorry buddy but I have to agree with the opinion of the sit on top kayaks. I have yet to see one that isn't a heavy barge for its size. But they sure are stable and unsinkable.

From: ron w
Date: 06-Jun-18




A hybrid kayak is the best of both worlds, stable, open, can carry a ton of gear. I use a tandem, seats can be taken out for more gear storage. Check out boats by Nativecraft......they are excellent. Mine is 16 ft. long.

From: elkster
Date: 06-Jun-18

elkster's embedded Photo



Here are a couple of Native Tegris

Ill try to add a pic

From: limbwalker
Date: 06-Jun-18




"Personally I’d rather swim or even drown than kayak..."

"my experience is limited..."

Well at least you can admit that.

I think the reason for such a bias against kayaks with the older crowd is twofold. First, kayaks are like longbows. They come in a LOT of different configurations and just saying "kayak" isn't specific enough. Second, there have been a ton of advancements in kayak design just in the past 10 years, so if someone tried one and didn't like it 20 years ago, and hasn't tried another since, they will be ignorant to all the progress that has been made. I mean, there was a time when compounds were heavy and slow too. ;)

From: reddogge
Date: 06-Jun-18




The only kayak I'd consider for a strictly solo hunting/camping trip would be a Native Watercraft hybrid. Otherwise, I'm going with a canoe. BTW they can be poled upstream standing up, paddled with a double-bladed paddle, or a long single bladed paddle standing up.

From: White Falcon
Date: 06-Jun-18




I am one of the older crowd, at 71, I still will take a kayak over a canoe. My $.02!

From: Thumper
Date: 06-Jun-18




I sell kayaks at my job. I'm pretty familiar with them and all the "advancements" that have happened lately. I like kayaks, at least the sit in type, but I wouldn't see how I could prefer one for hunting. Well, maybe duck hunting.

They are more awkward to portage than a canoe, they are usually as heavy as a slightly bigger quality Royalex canoe, and a lot more hassle to bail water out of if you happen to roll one. That last one is important to me because it's usually cold when hunting.

I have owned kayaks, and still would for certain purposes. If I was going to paddle across a lake in a stiff breeze solo? Please give me a kayak and a proper paddle over a canoe. They have their place, I know.

I think the reason kayaks are so popular now is because any Tom, Dick, or Harry can hop in one and paddle it in the general direction they want to go without much practice. But solo paddling a canoe, or even with a partner, takes some practice to get efficient.

And nobody wants to practice anything anymore, ever heard how popular compound bows are VS those stupid recurves and longbows :)

Most of the kayaks sold today are sit on tops by a large margin. For the guys that like to pile stuff on em to go fishing, or for people that like to just get out and float. Touring or tripping sit in kayaks are almost as dead as canoes.

They are all good, and like everything else in life, different ones have their place at different things. You just have to find what's right for your situation. That's why most guys that like to paddle, just like guys that like to shoot bows, have lots of different ones. One for each purpose.

That said, for hunting I still think a smaller tandem canoe of quality make is a solid choice. But others may have other needs. And that's cool too. The industry has you covered either way.

But be warned, hunting out of a paddled craft is a lot of fun. You'll probably be hooked!

From: gradymaci Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 06-Jun-18




Pic your poison..For Stability a Kayak is more stable due to the low center of gravity.. Period... Most new models are wider also..The material used in a Quality kayak will last a lifetime due to the UV protection and polimers today..Now Canoes..Look cool.. That's it..I was a Hobie team member, also Feel free member a Native member..It you Don't want to use a paddle,get a Hobie..If you want to paddle and have more room a Native..

From: deerfly
Date: 06-Jun-18




a good site to peruse for what you're trying to figure out is right here:

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums/

Quite a few hunters and fisherman in the membership too. Ask questions there about any canoe you can think of and someone will be able to give you first hand knowledge and a lot more. These guys talk canoes and related like we talk archery and related. Excellent site if you have a hankering to do a strip build too...

From: Thumper
Date: 06-Jun-18

Thumper's embedded Photo



From: Thumper
Date: 06-Jun-18

Thumper's embedded Photo



From: Riverwolf
Date: 06-Jun-18




Love your ride Thumper ! Best 4x4 ever made in my opinion ...a canoe on top and a Austrialian cattle dog up front...my kinda people ;)

From: deerfly
Date: 06-Jun-18




thump, I dig the bronco way more than the canoe :)

From: Lost arrow
Date: 06-Jun-18




Matter of preference. My 15’ Old Town Pathfinder ( Royalex) is my all time favorite solo canoe. Hauls enough weight to suit my needs. When fitted with a saddle and air bags it’s not a bad white water boat. I gave my daughter my 16’ Old Town Camper which is also a good choice. As for the kayaks I have had a couple of whitewater Perceptions back when I was able to do that kind of stuff. I now have a Perception Prodigy 10’ that I love to paddle but would not be my choice to hunt out of. Go with what suits you the best.

From: 76aggie
Date: 06-Jun-18




Thanks for all the feedback folks. That is exactly what I was looking for. Lot of different information and varying opinions. I never heard of a Gheenoe boat before today and never heard of Native Watercraft either. I don't need to make an immediate decision yet as I have not retired to the woods yet. I just need to canoe/kayak to be small enough and lightweight enough to be able to get it in and out of the back of my pickup and into the water without too much difficulty with room in the boat for a deer or a mess of squirrels or fish.

From: Jon Stewart
Date: 06-Jun-18




X,s 2 what Pearl Drum wrote. I have a 12' Radison and it works great.

From: 76aggie
Date: 06-Jun-18




I plan on doing some more research on the Radison. Is it rock solid stable? Most of my canoe experience is from 50+ years ago in Boy Scouts. We were always turning those things over but that could have been from 14-15 year old idiots acting like fools on the water. Newer Kayaks seem very stable and agile to me but seem to have very little room for a bow, quiver and pack, let alone a deer.

From: Mountain Man
Date: 06-Jun-18

Mountain Man's embedded Photo



Wonder what Ron thinks?

From: Bowguy Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 06-Jun-18




Elkster I never saw anyone stand in one so the stability issue is not right imo. A canoe has it all over a kayak imo but that’s all it is, use what you like. I ain’t buying it. The kayak/canoe thing about sales is not even worth talking about. This is getting like politics with a smoke screen. Kayaks aren’t being bought for hunting. It’s the yuppies buying them. They made em popular, almost must have items. They are not putting dead animals in em. I’d be sure if you took the boats only being used in hunting it’d not even be close favoring canoes.

From: Muddyboots
Date: 06-Jun-18




I sold my 40 year old 17" aluminum canoe as it was just too long/heavy to easily handle by myself for rooftop loading. Estimated weight was 75 pounds. I found a 14' Sportspal aluminum canoe that weights about 45 pounds. It is noisy compared to the plastic varieties. Just an option, as weight needs to be a consideration. I really wanted an Old Town, but they were around 80 pounds.

From: Bowguy Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 06-Jun-18




Just remembered something. I used to use a canoe a bunch to duck hunt. I’ve since gone to an otter. It’s classified by motor vehicles as a canoe in my state. Anyway you can attach a motor mount to the otter. I use a trolling motor. Otter is no longer made but beavertail is the name of em now. It’s crazy stable, you can stand on the edge and not flip it. Decent room, has seats and for sure can tote dead animals and gear. The thing is even sometimes using a canoe or otter we’d be light space. What we’d do is tow an ice fishing sled or two behind us. It’s cheap and floats real good. If you’re heart does settle to a kayak maybe that idea will help your space issue some.

From: Andy Man
Date: 06-Jun-18




Have both a high quality sea Kayak and high quality Maine Guide canoe

for long distances and against wind and tide the Kayak wins (wide margin)

For hunting and carrying a heavy load the Canoe wins (again a wide Margin)

different designs for different purposes-

Just for fun its even steven

From: Riverwolf
Date: 06-Jun-18

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



Old Town Camper 15 Length: 14' 10"/ 4.5 m Width: 36" / 91.4 cm Weight 57 lbs / 25.9 kg Manufacturers Weight Capacity: 850-900 lbs / 385.6-408.2 kg Camper 16

Old Town Camper Length: 16' / 4.9 m Width: 36" / 91.4 cm Weight 59 lbs / 26.8 kg Manufacturers Weight Capacity: 1,200-1,250 lbs / 544.3-567 kg

I would keep to a used Royalex if using in rivers and it won't be babied ;)

Lots bof ultra lights for rivers and will haul a load , but ultralights have a price ...first in $$$ 2nd in they won't take a beating like a rotalex and brush it off ....Just do some homework and right down what and how it will be used ...

Always solo hunting/fishing...type water ..basic weight when min...max empty--with load..etc..etc...

From: Pinecrest
Date: 06-Jun-18




Grumman Sport Boat.

From: gradymaci Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 06-Jun-18




Any Engineer's in the house.. Most Kayaks have sponsons, so when you step in it, the craft want slide out from under you if it is diagonally grounded..Step in a canoe and it will slide out from under you.. I get practice makes perfect, but just look at the picture's posted, you are above the freeboard, making it way less stable.. Will Canoes work yes.. look at all those wet Indians..

From: Hal9000
Date: 06-Jun-18

Hal9000's embedded Photo



Old School Kayaks are where its at, beats the Tupperware ones hands down :) I am in my 60's and can get in and out of mine almost anywhere. Mine are round on the bottom and are very stable, they handle much better in rough water, less likely to flip, or roll. They are also all open inside and you can really load them up with gear. Been in a canoe since the late 50's, just started kayaking a few years ago. My kayaks are 31 and 42 years old, 15' long and weigh 29lbs.

From: Hal9000
Date: 06-Jun-18

Hal9000's embedded Photo



I have taken this canoe hunting a handful of times, I use a double paddle with it. This canoe was built in 1987 15' long and weighs about 45lbs. The cream colored kayak in the pic above was bought the same year by a friend so he could paddle with me. If I ever build another canoe, or build a kayak, it will be a minimum of 16' long.

From: stonepoint
Date: 06-Jun-18




ocean kayak and old town made a kayak that was called the ambush boat. 800lb capacity and stable enough to stand up in. small battery well for trolling motor, or could be paddled. They are not made anymore, but would be ideal if you could find one.

From: hawkeye in PA
Date: 06-Jun-18




I like my kayak for turkey hunting in the spring and have deer hunted some with it. But if I was primarily deer hunting and hauling a treestand my old canoe would be my choice. Also remember to head up stream first if your not getting picked up! Lesson learnt the hardway:)

From: Two-more-steps Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 06-Jun-18

Two-more-steps's embedded Photo



I use a 10' kayak and being an extra PFD to place around the deer if I get one, or I use my canoe. Good Hunting!

From: RonG
Date: 06-Jun-18




Now Fellas, having lived in Florida for 60 years and my good friend was the inventor of the Gheeno, Mr. Harley Gheen, He passed a few years ago.

His boat is great for hunting and fishing, but a little heavy.

I know a little about archery, but a lot about Kayaks and Canoes.

I just donated my Kayak to a large dealer here to display in his shop, it is 18 feet long and 18 inches wide, very unstable in an amateurs hands, no way you can turn it unless you roll it over on it's side and back paddle, if you don't do that just right you will roll right on over.

I have taught Kayakers how to handle these things for years, my Kayak was custom made in England, it is called the Dawn Treador a Kayak that has circumnavigated GreenLand, I have paddled in rough seas with over twenty foot waves and winds in excess of sixty mph.

As soon as I can find a photo I will post one, you won't see one of these being paddled around by yuppies or even hard core kayakers.

Now those are my credentials and here is your answer to your question..........CANOE!!!!!

From: ground hunter
Date: 06-Jun-18




Hal9000,,,, tell me the last time you loaded a deer on it

From: threadbare
Date: 06-Jun-18




Kayaks and canoes are fine for the young and nimble, but a freighter canoe has many advantages: -it handles a lot of weight, which is why a number of moose guides use them -easy to get in and out of - you can stand up and walk from end to end -you don't have to beach it for stability every time you take a leak

look up the"Maine Freighter Canoe" or if you want the cadillac, look up "Canots Nor- West" out of Quebec

From: limbwalker
Date: 06-Jun-18




Just like the recurve/longbow debate, I think for hunting, those Native "hybrid" kayaks are gonna be tough to beat. I sure like the looks of them.

From: reddogge
Date: 06-Jun-18




I just looked up the specs on a Native Watercraft Ultimate 12 hybrid. Fine craft BUT capacity is a mere 350#. Men are bigger these days, most pushing well over 200# which doesn't leave much leeway for hunting gear, tree stands, dead deer. Most canoes have twice that capacity and mine carried 1,100#.

No doubt a SOT kayak or hybrid is a fun boat for fishing but for hunting and carrying things a canoe can't be beaten.

From: Jakeemt
Date: 06-Jun-18




I can’t speak much for kayaks as I have never hunted from one. However, there really isn’t a do anything craft you really need to consider what you want in one. If you want to get into public land and then back home a canoe is better especially one that can take a small motor. It simply is capable of holding more. If you just want to get in and have someone pick you up down stream a kayak may be more suitable as they tend to be faster and lighter.

From: Suedog
Date: 07-Jun-18




Old Town Camper 15' gets a second vote. Light weight for easy one man loading. Very stable, tracks straight and manuverable as well. Durable and quit. Seat set up allows one to paddle backwards from front seat when solo or conventionally when loaded.

From: mangonboat
Date: 07-Jun-18




I have four boats, all different types, lengths and designs...clearly I cant decide. But I know that:1) there are lots of solutions that make it easy for one person to load their boat onto a car-top or truck-top boat rack and lots of lightweight trailers that are made for canoes ,kayaks and kikes. Save your back and your vehicles paint job. 2) learn how to properly secure your boat on your car, truck or trailer..they tend to pick up with wind lift and a boat sailing over your car is never going to work out well. 3) learn how to paddle properly...what was once work becomes a source of great pleasure.4) spend money on a good-fitting PFD...that way you wont be wanting to take it off. 5) secure your loads...if a deer in the bottom of your boat shifts when you make a hard turn or slide down a chute, things get exciting in a hurry. Practice paddling with a 100 lb dog in your boat. In warm summer weather, load your boat like you're going hunting or fishing ,get out in water over your head and/or in a current and dump it...better to learn in a warm, controlled environment. I've seen thousands of dollars of gear disappear and be replaced by panic and/or hypothermia in the blink of an eye. Have fun!

From: Bernie P.
Date: 07-Jun-18




As much as I like kayaks IMO a small semi V or Jon boat would be your best bet for stability and hauling gear,game.Something in the 12-14' length is fairly easy to deal with weight wise even if your're alone.Granted not as trad but more versatile.

From: South Farm
Date: 07-Jun-18




"Grumman Sport Boat."

Made for moose and duck hunting, can't hardly imagine a better suggestion.

If anyone has a pic of themselves SAFELY and efficiently packing out a dead deer or bear in a kayak PLEASE post a pic of it.

From: Will tell
Date: 07-Jun-18




I've got a 16 foot Sportspal canoe with a square back. It weighs 70 pounds but will handle a 1000 pound payload and can handle a 3 horse motor. One man can handle it but is real nice for two hunters. My son is a Duck hunter and he likes it for swamp hunting, it's stable enough for twoand you can shoot out of it. I used to own a 8 foot Sportspal when I was younger and did a lot of fishing out of it.

From: Yellow Dog
Date: 07-Jun-18




X3 on the Grumman Sportboat......

From: vthunter
Date: 07-Jun-18




For the last 20 years I have used my Old Town 14' Osprey (Royalex) with a 381/2" width and 54lb. weight with great success. it is easy to car top & portage.

From: Hal9000
Date: 07-Jun-18

Hal9000's embedded Photo



ground hunter, I have not but wouldn't be afraid to, the blood wouldn't show on the red one, although, if I quartered the deer up, I could easily slip it inside the boat, I don't have foot pegs in the red one and it is all open inside. As RonG said something about amateurs handling boats, not many in the paddle groups I hang with want anything to do with my boats, even the experienced paddlers. Limbwalker said that kayaks were more stable than canoes, don't think so. Given a choice, I would take my canoe, but under certain conditions, I might take the kayak.

In this picture I had to paddle upstream 2 miles to get to this stand to take it out. DNR guy took us on a paddle tour and spotted it, he said it wasn't supposed to be there and if I wanted to take it out, it would be fine, then he wouldn't have to. Made the boat really top heavy, but did fine.

From: bigdog21
Date: 07-Jun-18

bigdog21's embedded Photo



From: ground hunter
Date: 07-Jun-18




Holy smokes, that is one big stand, I can not even imagine lugging something like that in,,,,,,, nice canoe though

From: ground hunter
Date: 07-Jun-18




Since we are on the subject, lets all be careful out there, and do not be a boob, when your out there, wear that PFD, no exceptions........ I have been a swimmer all my life, but its not the pool,,,,,,,

cold water, night time, gear, etc, its all a hazard once you hit the water, and its easy to do,,,,,,,

Always Be Safe

From: RonG
Date: 07-Jun-18




OK fellas we pretty much agree on the canoe as being the best choice, you can get anything you want in either, there are some kayaks you can stand up in and fish and some extremely high performance ones like I had that if you swatted a mosquito you would roll over 15 times.

But when it comes down too it Canoes are trad!!!!!!

Unless you are an eskimo!!!!!!

From: Kodiak
Date: 07-Jun-18




"I've"

From: limbwalker
Date: 07-Jun-18




"Limbwalker said that kayaks were more stable than canoes, don't think so..."

Don't take my word for it. Try a few. when your rear end is sitting at or below the water line, the laws of physics dictate your position will be more stable than if it's a foot above. Pretty simple really.

Like I said, they are different tools. If the OP is concerned about hauling lots of weight, then the canoe option is clearly the answer (or perhaps a hybrid like the Native boats). But to suggest canoes are more stable? I've paddled enough of both to be from Missouri on that one.

From: monkeyball
Date: 07-Jun-18

monkeyball's embedded Photo



I never bow hunted out of it, but I had a solo made by Old Town. It was called the Kay- Noo.

Fished and paddled a lot out of it, I imagine it would have been worthy of a bow adventure.

Good Shooting->->->->Craig

From: monkeyball
Date: 07-Jun-18

monkeyball's embedded Photo



And as far as stability goes, if I can get my wife into a Kayak you don't have to worry about them tipping.........

Good Shooting->->->->Craig

From: South Farm
Date: 07-Jun-18




Where does she put the dead deer??

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 07-Jun-18




She puts the dead deer in the canoe that she will tow behind the kayak.

From: Ron LaClair
Date: 07-Jun-18

Ron LaClair's embedded Photo



"Wonder what Ron thinks?"

From: LightPaw
Date: 07-Jun-18




Durability usually means heavy: 14' Old Town @ 78#, https://oldtowncanoe.johnsonoutdoors.com/discovery-133-21

If money is not a concern:13' Wanonah @ 25#, https://www.wenonah.com/Canoes.aspx?id=123

From: monkeyball
Date: 07-Jun-18




11 foot Kay-Noo......43#

Good Shooting->->->->Craig

From: Two-more-steps Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 07-Jun-18

Two-more-steps's embedded Photo



If your using a kayak, being an extra PFD, and float your deer out. Here is the pic that have me the idea!

From: cobra
Date: 07-Jun-18




Didn't read all the responses, but if this hasn't been brought up, I vote canoe of a plastic like composite, fiberglass or kevlar. Absolutely not aluminum. Deer, ducks and such will hear you coming a mile away. Lightweight is the rule!!

From: dean
Date: 07-Jun-18




My hunting roughing it or even a second canoe for Quetico is my Mad River Explorer kevlar. A model no longer made, it even has the builtin stem bumpers. It sold retail for $2500 15 years ago. I got mine a year old for $500 it has a small puncture when a boat wake pushed it into a dock support that was sticking out. A quarter sized patch of kevlar on the outside and one on the inside and it was good to go. I use an extra long kayak paddle for big water and running upstream solo on our moderate rivers. It has done extended Canadian trips with nearly 700 pounds on board and handled it very nicely. For handling on rivers I like some rocker, I am not a fan of flat bottom canoes for anything, they are the first to flip in rough water situations.

From: South Farm
Date: 07-Jun-18




Now there's a PFD that didn't save a life! I'd return it for a full refund;)

From: Stephengiles
Date: 07-Jun-18




Canoe for me if it's an easily traveled river. If it's a really winding creek you'll be doing a lot of portaging around downed trees and log jams. I don't know what you do if your buck gets stuck in a submerged tree floating behind a kayak.Something you won't enjoy.Have you considered a pirogue. You can stand up in those things and pole them or paddlePerfect in my opinion if not going long distance.

From: Hal9000
Date: 07-Jun-18




If canoes were more unstable than kayaks, the seats would be lower, they aren't....physics.

2 more steps.. that is a great idea.

From: Gvdocholiday Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 07-Jun-18




I'm a fan of my Golden Hawk 12'9 Y-stern.

From: gradymaci Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 07-Jun-18




If canoes were more unstable than kayaks, the seats would be lower, they aren't....physics. 2 more steps.. that is a great idea.

What...Physics Your joking right.. The lower to the Water Column you are the more stable.. That's Physics

From: jjs
Date: 07-Jun-18




Been using a Poke Boat Phoenix since 92 and have served well, very stable.

From: Hal9000
Date: 07-Jun-18




depends on the design of the boat

From: Hal9000
Date: 07-Jun-18




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM_evTO_BRc

From: dean
Date: 07-Jun-18




anyone that goes to Quetico or the BWCA with us has to watch the Bill Mason videos and practice them locally or they do not go along. Everyone thinks that there is nothing to learn, Basswood on a windy day is NOT the place to learn how to paddle.

From: peter.p
Date: 07-Jun-18




two more steps, thats freaking awesome!!!

From: limbwalker
Date: 07-Jun-18




Funny thing is that - as usual - there are two parallel arguments going on in one thread.

One is the "stability" argument - which the kayak easily wins,

The other is the "load hauling" argument - which the canoe easily wins.

Choose what matters most to you.

From: dean
Date: 07-Jun-18




With you butt down low a kayak is less likely to flip. Dropping to the knees in a canoe is about the same. I have seen people fall out of canoes without flipping the canoe. I also know people that are so clumsy that they could flip a pontoon boat.

From: Bowlim
Date: 08-Jun-18




Kayaks don't win the stability argument, they win the low center of gravity of the paddler argument. A low CG means you are nearer the water, which means you need to use a double paddle. That means you have both hands on the paddle, usually. So shooting and carrying your bow is something to consider. Most kayaks are designed for hackers, or fishing, bowhunting is not really the thing, so you need to think your needs through

Most "Kayaks" today are severe hybrids of the concept. Most kayaks are long and narrow, but today they are short and fat (actually native boats were almost every shape depending on region and use). If you are going to play with reality like that, you can play in any direction, you can sit low in a canoe and use a double paddle.

Canoe advantages are that they are usually far lighter because they don't have a deck, assuming similar form. You can portage them, and even if that is only 30 yards it counts. You can pack stuff in them, more easily and effectively, usually.

A really interesting alternative would be a Hobie with mirage drive. But it is probably more than a newbie would want to spend, and it isn't ideal if you are spending all your time in shallows. These are foot powered, and you can carry your bow at the ready.

Kayaks are partly popular at the moment because of the low learning curve (or so it seems). But another factor is that both the sit on top and decked variety adapt "well" to rotomolding in poly. This is the cheapest way to make boats and excellent boats are possible, even though crap is the most usual result. But a crap kayak can be a lot of fun. Poly doesn't take great shapes, or hold them, so you get a lot of shaping of the hull so it won't oil can. This usually makes for more weted surface area and poor hydro, but nobody seems to notice much. I bought an expensive roto kayak a few years back, and my main concern was that it abraded badly in what I considered pretty favourable trailering situations. I didn't expect that because poly slips over rocks.

As mentioned kayaks are normally longer and thinner than canoes (check out class specs if you want to see examples). Partly that is the CG issue, but also, a lot of paddling with a double blade in a fat, short, heavy boat is hard on the body. "real" kayaks have effortless speed, so the body can take the high stroke rate. But real kayaks are tipy. The fatso boats get around it by virtue of the fact that most people don't use them much. I only mention it for those who throw themselves into everything, or imagine going 20 miles against the wind to their hunting ground. Drifting a river with the current, no problem.

Whatever you get, or someone else buys. I got tired pulling out dead bodies from cold lakes in Ontario early in my career in the 70s. Nice weather in may gets people into their boats, and they launch into frigid waters and then if anything goes wrong they freeze to death. It can happen much later too. The first body I pulled out was some kids who died in a canoeing accident when they were celebrating their graduation in Physical Education. Next it was a boat that went down in a weir. Cold water is very dangerous.

I almost had to rescue this fat lady who bought one of those cheap styro SUPs it was flexible so the midsection sank under water. She was out in a lake on a beautiful sunny day, in shorts. If you sink it, it doesn't have stability, stability comes from reserve buoyancy you can submerge. She had none of that. She was kneeling on the board it was so tipy. She may have been fat, but any random guy would have been as heavy. The same thing will happen if you overload a canoe or kayak. A boat that is fine for you may be very unstable if you load on a deer.

From: DanaC
Date: 08-Jun-18




Look on Craigslist, select boats under 'for sale' and then search for canoe. Lots of used canoes.

From: D31
Date: 08-Jun-18




Greenhoe Boats that I mentioned at the beginning of this thread used to have an commercial where two 250lb men were standing on the gunwale of the boat without flipping it over. It was obviously to show the tremendous stability of their craft.

For stability and carrying capacity they are hard to beat.

From: GF
Date: 08-Jun-18




I’ve skipped over most of the post on this thread, so forgive me if I’m repeating points already raised.

As a matter of perspective, I have done an awful lot of kayaking in a 17‘ x 21“ touring boat - including a couple of 18-mile open ware crossings on Superior and when dealing with strong winds or heavy chop, there is absolutely no question that I would rather be in a kayak. But this is a decked boat which I can easily roll back up.

Stability - Bowlim nailed this one. If you get into a situation in a canoe where you’re concerned about stability, you just make a nice, easy transition from sitting on the seat to kneeling on the floor. And not-for-nothin’, but if you were drifting down a river or creek and you saw an animal along the shore that you wanted to take… It would be a whole lot easier to shoot from your knees than while sitting flat on your butt in the bottom of a kayak. And if you’re carrying a fair amount of gear, even two-man sit-on-top kayaks are too short to allow you to distribute the load and keep it low, so they lose a great deal of their presumed stability advantage if you are not both clever and thoughtful as to how you load them.

Capacity - A canoe is a pick-up truck. A kayak is a hatchback. At best. My 17’ is more a Backpack!

Comfort - Staying dry can keep you alive. Sit-on-top kayaks are a wet ride. The more heavily you load them, the wetter you will be. And personally, I can only sit flat on my butt for just so long before my legs start going to sleep on me. I think I’m probably done with those 18-mile crossings…

Heavy weather - One word of advice on that: Don’t. Or if you would prefer a two word answer: Just. Don’t.

A lightly-loaded canoe can be a handful in a strong blow across a good sized piece of water, but under the same conditions a heavily loaded, wide-beam decked kayak can easily be swamped. No matter what kind of boat you’re in, if you’re worried about getting dumped, just wait it out on shore. But FWIW, a canoe is more manageable in a strong blow when it’s pretty heavily loaded; a heavily loaded kayak is just that much more likely to swamp. Worth considering if you are contemplating covering some distance away from shore in an area where weather can change quickly.

Transport - Any boat that is light enough for you to carry is easier to carry on both shoulders than on just one. Canoes have carry yokes designed to allow you to portage the boat for a half mile or more between lakes on an extended trip; kayaks have carry toggles intended to allow you and a partner to tote the boat from the car to the water. You can get a little strap-on, two-wheeled cart to make it easier to move about around by yourself, but I have found them to be far from satisfactory on rough ground or even just going across a sandy beach.

Single vs. Double - With the canoe, there’s almost nothing to decide here. You just have to make sure that you get a boat that is intended to be used both ways. It’s amazing to me how many people do not know that the “front” seat in a two- man canoe is also the proper position from which to paddle that same boat solo. JMO, buying a canoe with seats that can only be used facing one way is getting 1/2 your money’s worth.

There are not many single kayaks which would have adequate capacity for hauling hunting deer and the deer, and there are very few tandem kayaks which are enjoyable to paddle solo, especially if you’re just out to go Iishing or something where you don’t have a big load a board. If the boat has a runner, it’s going to be controlled by foot pedals accessible only from the rear seat, and if you don’t have a pretty good amount of weight up front then the nose of the boat will constantly be drifting down-wind on you, which turns into work. If you sit in the forward seat to get better trim, then you have a weak tracking boat... which turns into work.

Bottom line is that there are no wide-beam kayaks which are intended for use in anything more than a light chop, but canoes have been getting it done - even on bad days - for about as long as our bows have.

If you’re real lucky, you may be able to find a 15 or 16 foot Royalec canoe used somewhere.

Anyway, I love a good kayak... but those recreational barges aren’t god kayaks, and JMO they’re not even good boats. Not compared to a good canoe, anyway.

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 08-Jun-18




There is a lot more to the "physics" of the stability issue than just how low in the kayak or canoe you are sitting. And there are kayaks with a relatively higher seat that when compared with the canoes that have a lower seat mounting you find that the difference in seat height is negligible. The shape of the hull in cross section is a big factor in the stability of either. A narrow hull with a rounded bottom in cross section is going to be less stable than a wider flatter bottomed hull. To categorically state that kayaks are more stable than canoes just because you sit lower is just nonsense. And I believe if you took an across the board average canoes are generally wider and flatter bottomed than a kayak.

There is a reason that when they buy a first kayak beginners are always recommended to take lessons on recovering from a tipover swim with their kayak. They are told to learn how to roll, learn how to self rescue. Go to any paddling site and this is constantly preached.

First time canoe purchasers are told to learn how to paddle and learn how to load the canoe. Self rescue is about knowing how to swim.

From: South Farm
Date: 08-Jun-18




PHYSICS be damned; I'm still waiting on pics of a dead deer being hauled home in a kayak. Does it really matter how we get there if we can't get a dead critter home?!? I can get to Lake of the Woods an hour sooner in my Mazarati, but what the hell good does that do me if I can't tow my boat???

OP, to your original question all I can say is if you get a kayak you'll be selling it shortly after you kill your first big buck. Don't believe me, buy one...otherwise skip that step and get yourself a canoe or small boat.

From: limbwalker
Date: 08-Jun-18




"Kayaks don't win the stability argument, they win the low center of gravity of the paddler argument" - which directly affect stability.

"There is a reason that when they buy a first kayak beginners are always recommended to take lessons on recovering from a tipover swim with their kayak. They are told to learn how to roll, learn how to self rescue. Go to any paddling site and this is constantly preached..."

Sure, if you're only looking at whitewater kayaks. Do you even paddle kayaks? These are the comments I usually see from someone with a very narrow view of what a kayak is, and usually little to no actual experience.

You will fall out of my kayaks before you flip them. Every single time.

From: limbwalker
Date: 08-Jun-18

limbwalker's embedded Photo



You won't find anyone doing either of these things in a canoe. LOL

Change is hard. This thread is yet another example. Might as well be talking about aluminum vs. carbon arrows here.

From: limbwalker
Date: 08-Jun-18

limbwalker's embedded Photo



From: Riverwolf
Date: 08-Jun-18

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



From: Riverwolf
Date: 08-Jun-18

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



From: Riverwolf
Date: 08-Jun-18

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



From: Riverwolf
Date: 08-Jun-18

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



From: Riverwolf
Date: 08-Jun-18

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



From: Riverwolf
Date: 08-Jun-18

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



nuff said ....;^)

From: Riverwolf
Date: 08-Jun-18

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



;^)

From: limbwalker
Date: 08-Jun-18




So funny.

As I said - change is hard.

Just like carbon arrows, rotomolded kayaks are here to stay and personally I'm glad they are. I hauled canoes around for years but as soon as I got my first kayak, I sold my canoe and have never missed it.

If I had to access a hunting area by boat, I'd take my largest kayak and then quarter the deer and put the meat in the large well behind my seat and paddle out.

Because just like canoes are becoming a thing of the past, so is hauling out whole deer. ;)

From: Riverwolf
Date: 08-Jun-18

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



Lifes about choices John...Just like WHY I prefer Longbows over ever other kind of bow...why I prefer my spinning rigs over any other type fishing rig, why I prefer a canoe over a kayak....Experience ...not trying to be like anyone...or living by what someone elses choices are ...I'm a Big Boy , and have lived-tested life and know what works for me ....Nuff said on that also....;^)

Best with your kayaks , and choices Brother John !

From: 9/10 Broke Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 08-Jun-18




Amen Riverwolf!!! Well put and my sentiments exactly.

From: gradymaci Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 08-Jun-18




Yep... That's why I shoot Easton Axis FMJ's so I don't discriminate..

From: gradymaci Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 08-Jun-18




https://photos.app.goo.gl/xurBsA4OL7 fdr5cr1

From: South Farm
Date: 08-Jun-18




"Change is hard"

What change? The OP's question is "Can you guys express some of your opinions on what would be a good craft and be able to carry a hunter and a deer. Stability is a primary concern as is durability."

SO...being as a kayak can't effectively haul a hunter and a dead deer any further discussion of its use is pointless and the canoe wins the round.

From: Hal9000
Date: 08-Jun-18




Excellent points GF and Bill Rickvalsky. My kayaks, although basically old school whitewater kayaks are totally open inside and you can stuff them full of a lot of gear. Another guy in the area has one like mine and loves to take his on float camping trips, just for that reason.

I am not very big and don't weigh a lot, so mine actually track better with more weight.

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 08-Jun-18




limbwalker, actually yes you will find people doing those sorts of things in a canoe. Those two so called kayaks are actually entirely different watercraft.

The second one isn't even really a kayak but they had to call it something. It is basically an unsinkable barge that is a cross between a kayak and a canoe and a paddleboard. It probably weighs half a ton. It is designed and built for a very specific use which it does very well

And in the first picture you are showing a kayak that is probably anything but stable for anyone who is inexperienced in its use.

Change isn't hard. It isn't even necessary. And neither canoes or kayaks are going away any time soon. Use the craft that suits the purpose you have for it. And yes I have paddled both. And I have tried out various examples of the latest kayaks at a local paddlefest. There are things I like about many of them but I haven't tried one yet that I would prefer over a canoe for the type of work required for a hunting trip. Can you make many of the latest kayak work? Sure you can. But if that is your primary use then why have to make something work when there is a craft that will do the job nicely.

From: gradymaci Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 08-Jun-18




Click the link..You ask and Google delivered..Not a painting either.

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 08-Jun-18




The only reason "kayaks" have taken over a huge share of the market is because of the target demographic and what they are are selling as kayaks. You have every Tom, Dick and Harry and a few Janes and Marys that want to recreationally paddle a little buying $200 hunks of plastic that they use maybe twice a year. Many of them are sit on tops for the people who don't even want to put in the effort to learn how to paddle and handle a sit in kayak. They just want to climb on and paddle around at their local lake.

The serious touring kayaks as well as canoes are definitely in the minority of today's sales. And the serious fishing "kayaks" are a very specialized part of the "kayak" market as well. But you better have a trailer to move them around on.

From: crookedstix
Date: 08-Jun-18

crookedstix's embedded Photo



Kayaking always struck me as a sort of cross between swimming and canoeing, but not as much fun as either one. I vote for old skool cedar and canvas. Ours was a 1938 Chestnut, a Canadian brand that was significantly lighter than an Old Town of comparable length.

From: Thumper
Date: 08-Jun-18




Amen Bill!

My thoughts exactly. Judging by the majority of our sales at work, you are correct.

From: limbwalker
Date: 08-Jun-18




So, clearly my own personal experience of paddling both canoes and kayaks over the past 40 years is irrelevant. LOL

Riverwolf - you are absolutely correct. To each their own and it's good to have choices.

I was just trying to dispel some of the incorrect statements made above about kayaks, most likely from people that haven't spent nearly as much time in one as I have.

Bill - more incorrect stereotypes... Sit-on-top kayaks are the preferred fishing boat for a LOT of people because they are self-bailing and easy to get in and out of - a particularly useful feature when you're paddling a river that requires a lot of portaging or dragging (like many of our Central TX rivers). I'm a grown man and can buy any boat I want. And what do I choose to paddle? A kayak because it is just a better tool for what I do.

There are so many erroneous statements in your post... sheesh. My kayak will paddle faster than any canoe you can muster, and no, I don't need a trailer to move it on. I can easily put it in the bed of my pickup by myself and do it all the time.

"learn how to paddle" a kayak? Are you being serious? My daughter got her own kayak when she was 8, and within an hour she was paddling it like a pro. From ages 8 to 17, she has followed me down all sorts of rivers, across open bays and even through the surf. I have no idea where you are getting your information, but it's just not based on reality.

If you insist on bringing a WHOLE DEER home with you, then you are probably the type that will also prefer a canoe. My kayaks would easily handle a quartered deer, and that's what I do anyway, since I realized that there was no point to bringing whole deer out of the woods.

Carry on guys. Enjoy your canoes and I'll enjoy my kayaks.

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 08-Jun-18




Limbwalker, you seem to be operating on the assumption that your personal experience is definitive while other's personal experience is non existent. I have been paddling for a few years myself and I have both canoe and kayak. I enjoy them both. If you want to be married to a single choice that is fine.

You may feel that some of my statements are erroneous. And I don't pretend to have a broad range of experience with a lot of different canoes and kayaks. But I also respectfully disagree with some of the points you have tried to make. As a matter of fact some of your points are separate and distinct from some of mine and yet you seem to believe they disprove what I have said.

I specifically said that the dedicated sit on top fishing kayaks do an excellent job of what they are designed to do so how is what I said an "incorrect sterotype"? And I never once mentioned relative speed of kayak vs canoe. You said "MY kayak will paddle faster than any canoe." Probably so since I have no idea what your kayak is. But there are plenty of plastic rec tubs out there that probably aren't any faster than a decent canoe.

And yes learning how to handle a kayak well is not just a matter of throwing it in the water and swinging those paddle blades. Various kinds of rolls and and self rescue maneuvers should be learned and practiced so that in a bad situation you are able to take care of yourself. I get my information from experience and you can also check in on any serious paddling site and they will make the same recommendations. Yeah you can get by on relatively quiet waters for most of your life and never get in trouble. That is what I stick to in my older age and muscular problems.

Again I don't know what your kayak is so I accept that you have no trouble loading it in the back of your pickup truck. My statement about using a trailer was in regard to the dedicated sit on top fishing kayaks that are very popular for fisherman these days. If you can lift one of those up easily then you are a lot stronger then the majority of people who use them. They can be loaded in a truck if you want but not "easily" and a light trailer is a much better way to go.

Kayaks are great and can be used for a lot of different paddling purposes. Canoes are great and can be used for a lot of different paddling purposes. By all means enjoy using whichever you prefer if it suits your purpose. I wouldn't personally say that you have made many erroneous statements. But you have made a few misleading and off target statements.

From: limbwalker
Date: 08-Jun-18




Bill, you should actually read what I write. I clearly said they are different tools for different jobs. Go back and you will see where I said that.

But some of your misinformation is just flat wrong. So I spoke up. Comments like "plastic rec tubs" is telling.

"rolls" LOL What the hell are you talking about? I've paddled kayaks now for hundreds of miles and never once have I needed to know how to "roll." Your image of a kayak is pretty narrow, but not surprising. I get that literally ALL THE TIME when I mention I own several kayaks. It gets tiring to explain the difference between whitewater kayaks people see on TV, and the fishing kayaks that 90% of us are using.

Again, mine is a dedicated sit on top fishing kayak. You need to do a little research because your information is just not correct.

From: limbwalker
Date: 08-Jun-18




"Kayaking always struck me as a sort of cross between swimming and canoeing..."

I really, truly wish I could take a whole bunch of you guys out for a trip on my kayaks.

I give. This discussion is EXACTLY like the old "aluminum vs. carbon" days which were also exhausting.

From: 9/10 Broke Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 08-Jun-18




Then give it up

From: Buckshot
Date: 08-Jun-18




I have a 15' Old Town canoe that I love. It will carry everything I need, plus a deer if I'm lucky. As was said before, turn it around and sit on the front seat. It keeps it from riding up.

From: Hal9000
Date: 08-Jun-18




I have been in some races with nationally ranked paddlers. The fastest times were turned in by canoes, both solo and tandem. The kayaks and surf skis were behind.

In the Great Iowa Race I got 2nd in the 16' and under class, averaging over 7 mph for 9.2 miles. The pro canoe guys were about 9 mph.

From: grizz
Date: 08-Jun-18




What I find most amazing about all of this is that when someone chooses one piece of equipment (canoe/kayak) or a process (whole deer/ quarted deer), the one you didn't choose becomes a thing of the past. Maybe just your past.

From: TrapperKayak
Date: 08-Jun-18

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo



Have done alot of both canoeing and kayaking, but kinda partial to the 14.5' Carolinas at this juncture. When it comes to a deer, I'll find a way, I can adapt.

From: crookedstix
Date: 09-Jun-18




Limbwalker...I'm truly glad that you and others like kayaking. My experiences with kayaks involve things like water running down the paddle and on down my arm, into the boat, which gives me a wet seat and feet. I don't enjoy sitting in a big, brightly colored piece of plastic, and I don't want to have to hermetically seal myself to stay dry. So there were reasons and experiences behind my remark.

I realize there are probably ways to avoid all of these vexations...but when I take my canoe, none of them come into play. My camera and I stay dry...I'm up high and get a better view...and there's room for all my stuff. These, too, are valid reasons for my personal preference of a canoe. To each his owm.

From: Snowshoe
Date: 09-Jun-18




Best thing you could do is go to a dealer and try out as many of both as you can. Opinions on here don't mean doodly squat:^)

From: Snowshoe
Date: 09-Jun-18

Snowshoe's embedded Photo



By the way I fit into the "Yuppie" category;^)

From: limbwalker
Date: 09-Jun-18




Crookedstix, that's possibly the most well reasoned response on this thread. I can appreciate those things.

BTW, kayaks aren't all brightly colored. My Hobie fishing kayak is a dark sand color that is very pleasant.

Hal9000 I'm well aware there are fast canoes. They have a 100 mile race down the river that flows through my town every year. Most guys are in specialized racing canoes. I was referring to the types of kayaks or canoes that a person would take hunting.

Snowshoe is spot-on. Don't take any of our words for it. Go try several of both.

Like TK says, where there's a will, there's a way. Since I no longer feel obligated to bring the whole deer out of the woods, all I have to account for is about 40# worth of quarters and backstrap. That would easily fit in the tank well behind the seat on my fishing kayak.

Personally, I find a small canoe with a square stern to be a very versatile sportsman's boat. Paddle it. Put a small motor on it if you want. It can haul a good sized load and keep you dry. I don't prefer to fish out of canoes but this thread was about hunting.

From: mangonboat
Date: 09-Jun-18




I realized after reading through this thread that it does bear some similarity to longbow versus recurve and the threads about which bow or manufacturer is to be recommended, and ,like those, a key fact is that no bow works well without the right arrows. Likewise, you can move almost any boat with any paddle or oar, but the right one makes a huge difference. There are some really nice paddles out there for every boat and paddling conditions, paddler strength. Invest in good ones. Heck, you can even go with pedal power if that suits your specific needs.

From: H Rhodes
Date: 09-Jun-18




Your choice completely depends on your water and how you want to hunt. I love paddling and try to incorporate it into most of my hunting and fishing. Some states regulations won’t allow quartering up a deer before taking it to a checking station, especially on some management areas, so that might be a consideration. I have an Old Town Discovery tandem that is a rugged all around canoe. I have hauled several deer out of the woods with it. It is a little heavy, but very manageable for me to load. My favorite is a Mohawk solo 14, which weighs about 40 pounds. It takes me through cypress sloughs and gets me into some otherwise inaccessible areas. The Mohawk is rated for 375lbs, so combined with my 240 hauling a big deer out would be a bad idea. I have a Pungo kayak which is great transportation and I have found that sitting in a kayak is easier on my back. It is like sitting in a recliner. I would go paddle a boat before making a purchase. There is a boat for every purpose.

From: H Rhodes
Date: 09-Jun-18




Paddling.net is a good resource.

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 09-Jun-18




limbwalker, I could accuse you of the same thing you said about me. You are not reading my posts either. At least you are not reading what I am saying and you are pulling short phrases out of context in your criticism.

Yes I referred to plastic rec tubs and I will stand by that when I say that they make up the majority of the huge market share kayaks currently have. I happen to own a plastic rec tub for paddling around quiet ponds.

And I said more than once that the purpose built fishing kayaks that you sit on top are very good at what they are designed to do. And if that is what you consider a kayak then I understand that you would never have had to learn to roll. You can't do a roll in one. And I have handled a number of the dedicated fishing kayaks, including Hobies, while trying them out. And they are very heavy and not the least bit portable. If you can carry one around easily then I salute you. But I also seriously question their being referred to as a kayak in the first place. But that is what they named them and it stuck. Quite frankly they are a separate category of boat from both a canoe and a kayak. And I feel confident that even at my age I can keep up with a Hobie fishing "kayak" in my canoe providing you paddle and not peddle.

You keep saying to try out different kinds of kayaks and I have repeatedly said that I have indeed tried out a number of them. I will admit that I have not tried out a dedicated white water canoe or a squirt boat. I have no interest in them. But I have paddled everything from a 17 foot sea kayak to a 10 foot rec kayak to a dedicated sit on top fishing "kayak".

Yes some of my comments are sarcastic generalizations while trying to make a point. If you take offense at that I apologize. But my comments are not out of ignorance or total lack of experience as you seem to want to believe.

From: limbwalker
Date: 09-Jun-18




"Some states regulations won’t allow quartering up a deer before taking it to a checking station, especially on some management areas, so that might be a consideration."

I keep hearing this. I think it would be useful to do some digging, because I really don't think it's that many states anymore.

Bill, if you want to accuse me all I ask is that you use facts. I'm quoting you. Feel free to do the same. I would prefer you did in fact.

I agree that the purpose-built SOT fishing kayaks are indeed a recent "hybrid" type of boat. They are darn good at what they are designed for.

Anyway, lay off the sarcastic generalizations so I can't bring them up, and we're good. ;)

I'm not hard to figure out. I have a science degree and a law enforcement commission, so I'm real fond of facts and telling the truth.

From: dean
Date: 09-Jun-18




Kayaks suck on wilderness trips, much too limited for the work that needs to be done.

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 09-Jun-18




limbwalker:

"Bill, if you want to accuse me all I ask is that you use facts. I'm quoting you. "

In my first line of the previous message I very specifically stated what I was accusing you of. And then below that I did address specific things you said to quote me out of context. I don't know how much more clear I can make myself. We have in fact made many of the same statements. I only entered this discussion because of generalizations you made that were not completely factual. And then you turned around on me and pulled phrases out that you professed were wrong without including the complete statement which was not wrong at all.

Yes my plastic rec tub phrase was sarcastic. But the complete statement was about their impact on the kayak market share and that statement was not wrong. I have one of those plastic rec tubs as part of my small inventory. And I love it for what I use it for. But my canoe is much more stable than that rec kayak. You indicated that much of your position was based upon a Hobie fishing kayak. A very fine fishing machine as I have said. And it is no doubt way more stable than my canoe. But that is not a fair comparison between a "kayak" and a canoe as to stability.

If I am still not satisfying you with the specifics of what I disagree with then I give up. Enjoy your yaks. I will enjoy both my canoe and my yaks. But please don't assume that my opinions are being pulled out of thin air with no experience behind them. You aren't the only one who has been paddling a while.

From: dean
Date: 09-Jun-18




Bill, I am sure that you already know how to get the most work out of a canoe. Some people that don't think there that is anything to learn, never learn how to properly use a canoe and fault them on account of their own inability. Kayaks suck at anything that requires loading, versatility, being able to get in and out to jump a beaver damn, have a dog jump in with you, or portaging. Compared to everything that we do with canoes, kayaks suck.

From: limbwalker
Date: 09-Jun-18




Okay Bill, you win. I frankly don't care anymore and the OP surely got all the information they were looking for.

I appreciate that you have experience with both. The terms "canoe" and "kayak" are far too specific to cover all the designs that are out there, just as "recurve" and "longbow" are too specific to cover all the variations.

Dean, kayaks don't suck at anything that requires loading. Like I said above, kayaks come in a LOT of designs. Some are designed to be loaded, just as some are designed to get in and out of quickly, portage, etc.

This is nothing more than choosing the right tool for the job. Why anyone would discount all the tools available to them, is beyond me really.

Canoes are definitely more "trad" than modern kayaks, and I think that's where some of the bias against them comes from. But hey, I'm not the one missing out.

From: Kodiak
Date: 09-Jun-18




Ugh...what an idiotic thing to be arguing about.

I'm mean, seriously?

Get happy.

From: limbwalker
Date: 09-Jun-18




You're absolutely right Kodiak.

From: Riverwolf
Date: 09-Jun-18




Hey... hang around , it gets worse up until sept...;^)))

Traditional archers/bowhunters tend to be strong minded . Most of us are well seasoned and a little long in the tooth so visions and directions will clash from time to time .. The OFF SEASON sure doesn't improve our social acceptance do it ;^))

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 09-Jun-18




limbwalker,

"This is nothing more than choosing the right tool for the job."

I agree 110%. Canoes and kayaks both come in so many different designs and configurations that anyone should be able to find something that suits their needs. I wouldn't and haven't discounted either of them. Personally I wonder at some of what are called "kayaks". They are great boats for what they are designed to do. Your Hobie is one of them. But to go off on that silly "trad" business I just don't see it as a "trad" kayak. But that is how they classify them so we will go with that.

I'm not missing out on anything. I have both and use whichever is appropriate for what I am doing. In my current state of affairs I wish I could afford something like your Hobie. And there are other nice ones out there. But right now they are out of my financial reach. I have no doubt they can carry a good load. But I have a canoe that has a 1200 pound payload capacity and is 17 feet long and 36 inches of beam. I can't imagine any game animal I could not get in it along with all my gear. And at 36 inches of beam I can stand and fly fish in it. No stability problems.

Enjoy your Hobie and any other kayaks you have. I feel sort of sorry that you chose to sell your canoe(s) when you got into a kayak. I think they are both worth having. You just have to choose the models that do what you want.

From: Kodiak
Date: 09-Jun-18




Lol!

From: Lost arrow
Date: 09-Jun-18




76aggie...I’ll bet you didn’t intend on stirring up a hornets nest. Good grief. I have 2 canoes and a kayak at present. Have owned a few of both in the past. I prefer the canoe for some things and the kayak for others. Favor the canoe most of the time. Life is too short for me to get all wadded up over the fact that some prefer the kayak. Hope you got a little bit of useful information. I think this thread should be titled “ Troubled Waters”.

From: dean
Date: 09-Jun-18




My daughter lives on a lake in Minnesota, she has those dumb kayaks in several designs. I don't even squat that low to poop in the woods. If you using a kayak and have a rock in your shoe, you have get out just to remove the rock and re-tie your shoe. The one thing that notice with that enclosed cocoon is that it gets hot in that thing. It's like putting your bottom half in a plastic bag on a hot summer day.

From: dean
Date: 09-Jun-18




Who's getting all wadded up? I would recommend a nice magnesium supplement and a cup of strong coffee for that. I don't care what anyone floats in, but i do know that RC Cola is better than Pepsi I refuse to be politically correct. What is really dumb is those stand a paddle things, sitting in a hole is bad enough, but to stand all day going no where and pretend you are having fun is just stupid.

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 09-Jun-18




dean,

You're not using that stand up paddleboard the right way. You have to strap a beach chair in the middle of it. Strap a cooler behind the seat. Mount some footrests out front. Cut some holes for drainage and voila! you have a sit on top kayak. Attach some rod holders and you have a sit on top fishing kayak.

From: Riverwolf
Date: 09-Jun-18




LOL.....

From: dean
Date: 09-Jun-18




Put a door on it with a crescent moon and you have a floating out house.

From: GF
Date: 09-Jun-18




“It gets tiring to explain the difference between whitewater kayaks people see on TV, and the fishing kayaks that 90% of us are using.”

ROFLMAO - Neither one of those options has anything at all to do with an ACTUAL KAYAK, which was invented by the people of the far northern oceans; Inuits and Greenlanders and the like. Classic proportions are length = 3 time’s the paddler’s height, and beam is the width of his/her backside plus the width of a fist on either side. Any wider than that and they start getting hard to roll... and if you’re not going to roll it, why even bother with a decked boat?

I’m yanking your chains now, just for fun, but honestly, I don’t know how you guys can stand to paddle any kind of distance in one of those plasti-barges... A canoe just has so much better glide that if I need more stability than my Greenlander, I’d rather have the canoe. The only plastic boat that comes anywhere close is the Old Town Loon 16 tandem - 1 BIG cockpit to speed up loading and a pretty decent bill-form below the waterline.... but man, would I NOT enjoy paddling one heavily-loaded in a blow.

Good thing about canoes is that there are so many configurations available that at least one of them should work for just about any need.

The only kind of canoe I would not care to own s a square-stern. Lopping off the tail makes it into a dog to paddle and cuts the versatility in half. If you need a motor, get a rowboat! (or you can get a thwart-mounted motor-mount)...

And FWIW, I’ve caught Bluefish up to 24” and Stripers up to 28”’ from my 21” beam kayak. You just can’t use too long of a rod is all....

From: limbwalker
Date: 09-Jun-18




Bill, I imagine you have the wrong idea about my Hobie. It was a very well used boat I bought for $200 from a good friend that does not have a mirage drive and is only 28" wide. Do a search for Hobie's 13' Quest. I have the older version. I also have two Emotion Stealth Anglers (which are very underrated 10' boats) and a 13' tandem Emotion "Co-motion" boat.

It's very likely I'll own another canoe when the situation calls for it. I have nothing against them and personally I feel they have a lot more history and "romance" than the kayaks I own.

Dean "enclosed cocoon" tells me quite a bit. And stand-up paddle boards are taking over down here on the flats (TX coast) because they are incredibly stable and versatile. You give away many of your biases in your posts. ;)

From: dean
Date: 09-Jun-18




Just kidding, but anyone that has been on canoe trips to Quetico or the Boundary waters will understand why we love canoes over kayaks.

From: Thogg
Date: 09-Jun-18

Thogg's embedded Photo



Canoe=half the paddle ,twice the man. Personaly i'm a kayaker. The picture is me at a surf contest moments before entering "the green room." I've paddled many white water kayaks and some decked canoes. I have limited experince with more traditional canoes and less with sit-on-tops refered to as kayaks. I've thought about what craft would best suit the needs of a hunter. All ww craft are out,not enough volume as several multi day river trips prove out. Do able but why bother. I have not ruled out a sit-on-top but most designs compromise in manaverability or tracking. They also tend to weigh more. One more item with a sit-on-top I preceive would vulnerability in conditions. The ability to carry loads,a balance of tracking and manuverablity,and a preceived lessing of exposer would have me choose a canoe. Thogg

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 10-Jun-18




GF,

I was avoiding the reference to what an "ACTUAL KAYAK" was because it seemed as though that might stir up the long standing argument on here about the word traditional. That is why I was putting quotes around any reference to the sit on top fishing "kayaks". Their only claim to kayakhood is that the marketing departments couldn't think of a better name to sell them with when they first came out. Many of them are well designed for their single primary purpose and I wouldn't mind having one for fishing.

From: limbwalker
Date: 10-Jun-18




Bill, GF just went there - and now it's full on "when is a longbow really a longbow" LOL

"I don’t know how you guys can stand to paddle any kind of distance in one of those plasti-barges..."

You're welcome to paddle any of my boats. They all paddle very easily. My wife, daughter and I routinely take them on 6-8 mile fishing trips. A buddy of mine and I have paddled 6+ miles in them in the open bay to fish for redfish and specs. For their intended purpose, they are very good. If there were better options, believe me people would be using them. Having said that, I'm starting to see guys use stand up paddleboards with a small cooler on them for fishing flats. Inexpensive, easy to load on top of a car and you can stand up and sight cast from them. Makes sense to me.

Most longbow purists wouldn't ever consider my 3pc takedown R/D bow to be a "longbow" but that's what we all call it. LOL

Funny how some folks can get so hung up on names. Makes me wonder how they get through each day without losing their minds.

From: dean
Date: 10-Jun-18




My wife's 54" hybrid longbow is not a a longbow. Like my son said, "That's the best short recurve I have ever shot." For open water cruising kayaks are easy to use, not sure where to stow the large canoe packs and the dog and portaging can be a real bitch, but they are quick and the learning curve is short. Where we go we have to pick all that stuff and carry it to the next lake. I see more people using kayak paddles in Quetico, but they are using them with solo canoes. Where my daughter lives, even going down those 12 steps to get to the lake with a kayak is a pain, a kevlar canoe on the shoulders is much easier. But those paddle boards? Common, those are limited junk. There is one at the lake home as well, not suitable much of anything when there is wind and waves.

From: dean
Date: 10-Jun-18




https://imgur.com/a/7IsomSw

From: dean
Date: 10-Jun-18

dean's embedded Photo



From: dean
Date: 10-Jun-18




That's what a working canoe looks like.

From: Riverwolf
Date: 10-Jun-18

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



I'll toast to that..... Larry , that's a very "Proper Setting" I might add ;)

From: Riverwolf
Date: 10-Jun-18

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



Example of the loads they carry(duluth pack pic from on-line ) before you add the peoples and extra accessories ;)

For back country travel and work , I don't see the time tested canoe being replaced anytime soon ;)

From: Riverwolf
Date: 10-Jun-18

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



...they always get me to the places I need to be . Safe with a week or so gear , and still enough elbow room to fish ;)

From: Kodiak
Date: 10-Jun-18




Awesome pics guys. Love it.

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 10-Jun-18




Names matter simply as a means of communication and understanding. If you told me you had a longbow I would have a very broad picture in my mind. If you tell me you have a 3 piece takedown longbow with a metal riser I get a much clearer picture in my mind.

When you say you have a kayak that you use I have a very broad picture in my mind. When you say you have a sit on top fishing kayak I have a much better understanding of what you have.

Names and terms have an origin which is usually very specific. Over time things evolve and terms which were originally very specific have a much broader use and need further clarification.

From: limbwalker
Date: 10-Jun-18




Only thing missing in those pics is the flannel. LOL

From: dean
Date: 10-Jun-18




I never wear flannel, When it hot a light long sleeve that the mosquitoes cannot bite through, when it is a bit cooler, wool. Canoeists don't like materials that stay cold and wet for long periods. We caught a number fish that day enroute to a camp site. I saw that bass hit the jig in ten feet deep water about 30 feet from the boat. The wind went from dead calm to roaring. A bit of a knuckle biter the last couple of miles. Later after we had camp set, the storm came, 70 mph tent stretching wind a couple of trees went down and lightening hit the slope about 80 yards from our tent.

From: limbwalker
Date: 10-Jun-18




dean, I just want to know about that traditional life vest you're wearing. How old is that thing?

From: dean
Date: 10-Jun-18




22 years, you know that is mine because it says 'Larry's floater thing' on it. I do not ever crush it, the generation life vests prior had better foam in them, they could take a crushing and spring back for more. That one was under my knees in that picture. It has become a back-up life vest, knee pad, butt pad, little dinky camping pillow lifter. Those logs at permanent camp sties never pu the lumps and bumps in the right spots for tender hind end. The last few trips i also pack the hammock seats, we can always find a tree to strap them too. Just another few pounds to the 660 pounds on board the canoe.

From: Hal9000
Date: 10-Jun-18




Lost my good paddle buddy, we used to paddle 20 miles up to 50 mile day trips. I have seen him thread the needle many a time with his 17' boat. We explored a lot of Mississippi River back water together, some of which was huntable, if you didn't get shot up by the duck hunters :) (a 50 miler took us about 10+ hours)

From: offtheshelf
Date: 10-Jun-18




12 ft frontier by nucanoe. very stable. You can even duck hunt out of it.

From: GF
Date: 10-Jun-18




Truth be told, I’m so unhappy with the options out there that I’m working on my own designs. Just to be a Curmudgeon.

LOL...

Shooting for something stable enough for stand-up fly-fishing that will handle a foot of chop without swamping. I kinda like the idea of a small cooler as a backrest/seat, but I’m not sure what that’d do to the weathercocking, which is a deal here on LI Sound.

Has to be efficient enough for my wife to use it when we go paddling, and it has to surf, ‘cuz.... Surfin’!

From: Gaur Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 11-Jun-18

Gaur's embedded Photo



I picked up this Mansfield 16 ft prospector for $300 bucks. Needs some new gunals that I will get done soon. Similar model to Bill Masons canoe but this one is fiberglass with thin mahogany ribs. 55# but will carry 900 lbs. Felt like I won the lottery!

From: Gaur Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 11-Jun-18

Gaur's embedded Photo



From: Gaur Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 11-Jun-18

Gaur's embedded Photo



Merrimack makes this model now as they bought the molds from Stowe company in the 80s and they sell for $3500

From: South Farm
Date: 11-Jun-18




"Go try several of both."

And don't forget to bring a dead deer with you so you can compare apples to apples!

From: South Farm
Date: 11-Jun-18




Nice boat Gaur, but that ain't Farm;)

From: limbwalker
Date: 11-Jun-18




Or just have your wife lay down somewhere in the boat while you paddle. LOL

From: Gaur Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 11-Jun-18




Dave It the middle fork river at our place in New London and pic with bow is a little public lake that I used to get the canoe across to acres the other side to bow hunt public land that I could get to only by boat (otherwise you would be trespassing on the north or sought side of the lake

But I do plan to take her up north after I do some repairs

From: LaGriz
Date: 11-Jun-18

LaGriz's embedded Photo



Cool Thread, I grew up with canoes and yes they have the advantage of hauling heavy loads. Have been rocking a 14.5' Native Ultimate solo Kayak since 2013. This model is a sit-in-side hybrid design. Craft has two positions to paddle from, one with the seat elevated. Seat is removable, and that would increase the storage space a great deal, although I have never had a need. I like the way my boat tracks and the hull is designed to be stable enough to stand up and fish out of. While hunting public land, I managed to haul a single pole ladder stand, Recurve bow, daypack, dry bag, and a soft cooler with my lunch and drinks. Might not be old school enough for some, but the craft is good in a wind has the options of spray shirts front and rear. Mostly they help with keeping the paddle drip out of the boat. Use has mainly been during our late-archery seasons in January. Freezing temps and cold water is a threat, so I also pack a dry bag with a change of clothes(+ a Lighter) just in case I take an unwanted spill.

LaGriz

From: Kodiak
Date: 11-Jun-18




Great looking boat Gaur.

From: LaGriz
Date: 11-Jun-18

LaGriz's embedded Photo



Sorry about the wrong pick. Let me try this again.

From: limbwalker
Date: 11-Jun-18




Great looking design. Looks like the best of both worlds to me.

From: 76aggie
Date: 11-Jun-18




I think I have to agree with Limbwalker that what LaGriz posted may well be the best of both worlds. After all the give and take on this thread, I had pretty much decided to go with a canoe. I was prone to getting an Old Town but some of the older ones mentioned here don't appear to be made anymore and the newer models are all approaching 100 lbs. This Native Watercraft 12 footer or the 14.5 footer may well do the trick for my uses at half that weight.

I looked at some excellent rigs that were suggested and pretty much liked all of them. Some were excellent but way out of my price range. Thanks to all of you for your input. It is much appreciated.

From: GF
Date: 11-Jun-18




What does that Native look like up-side down?

I guess it’s like everything else - the trouble with compromises is that you’re always going to have to compromise...

Which is why the old adage is True: A man can never have too many small boats!

From: Gaur Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 11-Jun-18




That native looks ok for small water but doesn’t look like it would handle much load

I saw a few kayakers in the BWCA last week. We were in a 14 ft portage boat . Pipestone bay was pretty windy and this guy was in his kayak with a pack strapped on the back. Didn’t look like a good set up to me. But I do like kayaks too for certain things. My dad has two hobie mirages with the pedal drive and they are great for fishing. Caught 4 sharks while fishing with one in North Carolina a few years back

From: limbwalker
Date: 11-Jun-18




76, I hope you enjoy it. I'm sure you will. I've yet to meet a person with a Native boat that didn't love it.

GF, sometimes you don't need "all" of one thing or another so even though compromise has become a dirty word these days, it can still be the best option. BTW, that Native hull is a tri- hull design for tracking and stability.

Gaur, not every boat has to haul 600 lbs. Some of us scale back our gear, quarter out our animals and travel light. In fact we prefer it that way.

From: LaGriz
Date: 11-Jun-18

LaGriz's embedded Photo



Guys, When I purchased this Kayak I was torn between the Native 14.5 and the Wilderness Systems Commander 140. They both are fishing friendly, and both are sit-inside hybrids. The Commander tracked a little better, was slightly wider, and had a "fishing perch" that looked inviting. Price and weight played a role in my choice, and the quality of the Native product.

The Ultimate has thwarts that can be removed along with the seat for a less confined interior space. I'm pushing 260#, the ladder stand weighs 35, Day pack and dry bag are 35#, plus my bow all seemed to fit. Have never tried to stand up and fish but the "tunnel hull shaped bottom" is designed to be more stable for that purpose. To do any long range camping and portaging you might need more space. Over all its a great tool and a quality piece of gear. The previous pic is of a battery powered running light. The waterfowl hunters in the WMA can be pretty crazy running hard in the pre-dawn trying to get to their blinds. Wanted to be seen by them and avoid being swamped. LaGriz

From: TommyBoy Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 11-Jun-18




No one has mentioned inflatables yer. Check out Bris.

From: Kodiak
Date: 11-Jun-18

Kodiak  's embedded Photo



Inflatables? You mean like the Hindenburg?

From: dean
Date: 11-Jun-18




One of my brothers with a remarkably low logic, declared that inflatables were faster than kevlar canoes or kayaks and easier to portage. 'Just let the air out at one landing stuff it into a sack and blow it up on the other end'. 'How easy could it get?' When asked what made them faster, "They have air in them, only an idiots can't figure that out." Oh the humanity.

From: joe vt
Date: 11-Jun-18

joe vt's embedded Photo



10 6" solo wee lassie canoe. I paddle it with a kayak paddle.

From: TommyBoy Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 11-Jun-18




The inflatables have a very high physical weight to cargo weight ratio - a 35 lb inflatable can handle 500lb cargo. There is a reason special forces use inflatable Zodiacs for their missions. Look them up before spouting off ignorantly.

From: limbwalker
Date: 12-Jun-18




TommyBoy, when you have an agenda, facts don't matter. ;)

LaGriz, nice boat. How do you like that tent?

From: dean
Date: 12-Jun-18




Kayaks are easy to paddle , some are very fast, some handle white water very nicely, but they are a pain to load with tripping gear and tough to portage. A canoe is versatile, can hold a lot of gear and is easy to load and unload, if it does not weigh to much it is quite easy pick up and portage. There are a number of Zodiac models, while they may work with an adequate motor, you are not going to have much fun paddling one, if you have to pick it up and carry it down a long rough portage, you are going to cuss a lot. If you let the air out to make it a smaller package out in the wilderness, you will spend all of your time let air out and blowing it back up again. Inflatable floaty things for paddling are even dumber than those stand and paddle dumb things.

From: Kodiak
Date: 12-Jun-18




Wow tommy, tense much?

From: TrapperKayak
Date: 12-Jun-18




dean, don't try taking that vest through airport security.. :)

From: limbwalker
Date: 12-Jun-18




I keep reading how tough kayaks are to portage. Why are people saying that?

Dean, there are so many varieties of canoes and kayaks that the broad statements you are making cannot be supported.

I can find you kayaks that are infinitely more stable than some canoes, and vise versa. I can find you kayaks that are much lighter than canoes and vise versa.

And this is a useless, biased and somewhat ignorant comment - "Inflatable floaty things for paddling are even dumber than those stand and paddle dumb things."

My 70 year old aunt who spends part of her year in an RV with my uncle, loves her inflatable kayak. I know plenty of folks who love their stand up paddleboards. Just because you have your preferences doesn't make other people's choices "dumb". Come on man.

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 12-Jun-18




That is the main problem with this discussion and I can finally agree completely with what limbwalker just said.

We aren't comparing apples to apples or oranges to oranges or even apples to oranges. We are dealing with an entire fruit basket. Just about every person participating in this thread has made generalized comments or categorizations based upon a canoe or kayak that they happen to like. There are so many different designs of each available that each person needs to try out different models of each to see which suits their particular needs and desires.

From: Ron LaClair
Date: 12-Jun-18

Ron LaClair's embedded Photo



Birch Bark for the traditionalist

From: Hal9000
Date: 12-Jun-18




LaGriz... that looks like a happy medium that would really get the job done.

From: Lost arrow
Date: 12-Jun-18




Might add that my Old Town Tripper made a great shelter to wait out a sudden thunderstorm. Landed on the bank, rolled it over crawled under. Not bad

From: TommyBoy Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 12-Jun-18




Kodiak - no offense intended! Ignorance does not mean stupid, just uninformed. I would suggest looking into the BRIS 14 foot kayak/ canoe. Ultra stable and you can hook a small motor to it and it will fly. Looks like something out of special forces.

From: TommyBoy Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 12-Jun-18

TommyBoy's embedded Photo



From: Mountain Man
Date: 12-Jun-18




Ron,,,,ya make a matching brich cup for bailing?

I kid of course always wanted to try my hand at making one

From: limbwalker
Date: 12-Jun-18




Just to be clear, seal skin kayaks are more trad than birch bark canoes, and dugout canoes are more trad than seal skin kayaks.

We need to get the hierarchy of trad boats straight. LOL

From: dean
Date: 12-Jun-18




The reason i am being sarcastic is because of the kayak lovers bias. The original question was what could the retired individual use best to get up and down small rivers to get into public hunting ground and you all started spouting your preferences. Someone suggested a canoe like the Old Town Camper. For the quiet and possibly shallow water, a flat bottom canoe would be correct. A lighter lay- up canoe would be better than a heavy one,, for a single individual to carry around. Hunting clothes, hunting gear, and possibly cold conditions. A canoe is the simple and best boat for his purpose. Handling and paddling a canoe does take some specific knowledge and skills, but fears of flipping are not an issue at all if some very simple and basic procedures are used. Objectively consider the situation of the original poster. He is not looking for a sunny day in the bay in his swim suit, he is not looking for something to bomb up the Missouri River, he just wants to slip up and down a quiet stream with minimal current. If there was current involved, big water, nasty cold conditions, miles to and from his destination and motors were allowed, I would suggest an Alumicraft tunnel haul jon boat with a 25 horse four cycle engine. Leave the cheap plastic floaty things for those that like to play in the water. There is my one serious answer.

From: limbwalker
Date: 12-Jun-18




dean, why should you feel threatened by someone who loves their kayaks? It has no bearing on what you choose to use.

If someone loves their canoes, I am happy for them. Just don't go spreading misinformation and we're good. If the canoe is the best tool for the job, just say so. You don't have to go the extra step and spread misinformation about kayaks to justify your response.

"Leave the cheap plastic floaty things for those that like to play in the water. There is my one serious answer."

Like Dr. Phil asks, what are you compensating for?

From: gradymaci Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 12-Jun-18




Strike Dean off the list of beneficial information as he needs to sue his brain for stupidity.. There is No Wrong vessel for the original posters answer due to both vessels have the same traits if you look at all the makes and models of both available .. There is your straight answer..God bless..JA

From: Trooper
Date: 12-Jun-18

Trooper's embedded Photo



From: dean
Date: 12-Jun-18




From: dean
Date: 12-Jun-18




Hilarious, I love these threads, some of us do, on a regular basis, just exactly what the OP asked about. Oh, by the way, I do own kayaks, stupid plastic floaty things for the kids to play with and number of canoes. I never take debate threads serious. For those of you who cannot tell when someone is joshing around, I am so terribly sorry, I should of have put smiley faces on my posts for those of you who did not catch on.

From: limbwalker
Date: 12-Jun-18




Dean, is it the plastic you have a problem with? You mention it a lot. If those same boats were hand crafted from wood, would they still be stupid floaty things?

I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.

From: dean
Date: 12-Jun-18




Many years ago there were lots of stupid floaty things made of wood. Remember the skeeter boats of the early 60s? They were like a skipping stone with a big motor on it. Man were they fun to raise hell with, until they hit a wave wrong and you went flying. To put it simple for you, when a slow shallow stream that can sometimes be narrow because of weeds and sticks hanging over the waters edge, a canoe is more simple and convenient for someone of retirement age. You can use a kayak paddle, which we often do, you can use a regular canoe paddle, you can even use a push pole if it is too shallow to get a good bite with either paddle, that works better than many realize. I have gone up stream often using a push pull and yes I was standing when i did it, with a loaded canoe. You cannot put a deer and your bowhunting equipment on a small craft or one of those stand and paddle boards and go upstream with a push pole. We have one of those as well. The grandson has one at the lake home, it is limited to nice flat water conditions when standing. When the wind and waves come up he has to sit on it. I don't mind if my feet get wet when I am hunting, but come November, I am not happy at all if my underwear gets soaked, water is cold up here in November. Old age is a funny thing, we tend to get shorter, but the ground seems further away, these play boats are okay for the young and agile in warm conditions, but for the old stiff and cold joints not so much. Weight, it can be an issue for loading and unloading a water craft. As an example, a kevlar Souris River 16 foot Quetico model is a fairly flat bottom canoe with good secondary stability. It can be tossed on and off of a vehicle very easily, it can handle lots of varied conditions, is easy to be soloed and it is tough. The plastic fishing combo jobs like the ones Cabelas sell, seem okay in a pond or sandpit, the guys around here use trailers or two people just to get them in and out of a pickup and carry them a few feet to the water. Sometimes it is necessary to carry the craft much more than a few feet to get to the water. A light canoe with pads can be carried much easier to get to a better option drop in point. In rugged situations the convenience of public ramps and nice parking areas do not exist. We have a public area up here with no public access, and the farmers will not let anyone cross their land, but it has the river on one side, the public landing is too far away and the current is strong enough that the trip up stream would be quite an effort most years for a solo paddler in a pushy craft. The easiest is the jon boat with the tunnel hull, the second easiest option is the 100 yard carry to a friendly farmer's sandbar across the river from the public land, a simple two hundred yard paddle and you are hunting. To get back with two people and a deer, just follow the upstream side of the eddys and in a short while we are back on at the entry sandbar. Handling variables, the common 16 foot kevlar canoe is good at that, it is not a specialty craft. You all can call me names all you want, but I have been paddling all over the country and Canada my entire life. I have seen often enough the limitations of specialty paddle crafts. What the OP wants to do requires nothing special in design, he may find the convenience of light weight and versatility very handy for his purposes, a basic 16 foot light weight canoe fills all of those needs.

From: TrapperKayak
Date: 12-Jun-18




dean, that is all well and good, very useful informtion, and I thank you for it. But what I'd really like to know is what is that thang on your head? And have you worn it in both abutting countries all these trips? It looks like a naugahide hassack, does it double as a boat cushion too? It must be very versatile then, kinda like a good canoe/kayak hybrid made out of both wood and kevlar (but no plastic).... ;) with emphasis on ). TK jk....

From: TrapperKayak
Date: 12-Jun-18




It looks like you use it in any situation...on all three ends. Hat for head, cushion for butt, hassack for feet. Float a deer out on it maybe? :0 :)

From: limbwalker
Date: 12-Jun-18




LOL TK

From: Kodiak
Date: 12-Jun-18




Hey Tommy, no problem. We're just debating boats here.

I respect everyone's opinion. Fun thread.

From: Riverwolf
Date: 12-Jun-18

Riverwolf's embedded Photo



...Dean's wiiwakwaan-an is protection from a well known Canadian Bird to those that travel her wilderness ;^)

From: dean
Date: 12-Jun-18




That is a simple cap, you notice the water is dead calm. We going through swarm of black flies that day. That is a mosquito that is large enough to well past my collar. The only man that is manly enough to take on the black flies, a type of biting gnat, is also crazy. I have no issues with plastic play boats, plastic kayaks, or even plastic canoes other than the weight and lack of speed and sea worthiness of some models. I am just having fun being cranky and opinionated with other that are having strong opinions. As pretty as wood canvas canoes are, they are too damn heavy for me. I was friends of the great wood canoe builder Joe Saliga. He never got to building a canoe for me, his waiting list was many years long. I was on the schedule the year he died. By that time my back was shot and I probably would have gotten very little use out a 75 pound wood canvas canoe. Although I did get to borrow one a couple of times for canoe trips from his family fleet for our trip. The canoe in the photo is a kevlar made on a form of one of Joe's canoes, it even shows a couple of hammer marks. It is the first one sold out of the Bell factory. The first two were demos and had release flaws coming out of the form.

From: dean
Date: 12-Jun-18




What to expect on an off route canoe trip with us, not far off from reality. Shows all of the fun at least. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk8sfEQRwY8

From: TrapperKayak
Date: 13-Jun-18




That explains it... protection from the state bird.

From: Ron LaClair
Date: 13-Jun-18

Ron LaClair's embedded Photo



From: LaGriz
Date: 13-Jun-18

LaGriz's embedded Photo



Limbwalker, The tent in my pick is a Seek Outside BTS-2. Discontinued floorless 1 or two man shelter. Has two doors straddled by a stove jack and room to stand up and put on your pants. 3.7#s with Carbon pole and pegs. A little tight for this fat man, but with my Ti-Goat Wi-Fi stove you get a heated shelter under 6#s that packs into a very small space. paddling The Ultimate 14.5 with a 100# doe and all my gear might be doable. If the deer was any larger, I would stash my gear and make two trips back to the truck. I guess the canoe has the edge in this scenario.

I do wish Dean would acknowledge that no one here is suggesting a paddle board or a sit on top kayak as an option. You are correct these are going to get you wet every time and are made for warm water summer use. Unless I screw up, I won't get any more than a paddle drip while using my kayak. Good thing as The water/air temps during the January rut are much too cold to consider a dip in the bayou, creek, or lake. I won't be practicing any rollovers anytime soon either LOL! Look at my craft closely. It is not a whole lot different than a canoe and less like any fully closed sea kayak with a narrow opening for the paddler. These hybrids are the types that are being Suggested on this thread. Don't confuse them with a white-water, sit on top, or a GD paddleboard. LaGriz

From: dean
Date: 13-Jun-18




Geez, I am just kidding, but that plastic camo thing is too damn heavy and hard to pick up and carry on a retired guy's shoulders. Now the jon boat in the back ground, if a boat ramp of some kind was available, would work great for trecking up and down a little river.

From: elkster
Date: 13-Jun-18




La Griz,

I have the same seek outside tent and titanium goat stove. Like the ability to stand up inside. Yes, Hybrids are being suggested to fit the needs of the original poster. I hog hunt from my Tegris native all the time. It is more like a canoe than a kayak but people are mostly unaware and think its an "either - or" discussion.

From: limbwalker
Date: 13-Jun-18




There goes Dean about the plastic again. I think it's plastic he has a problem with, not the boat design. I mean, that thing is basically a canoe. But it's a plastic canoe, so as the Waterboy's momma says - it must be from the devil. LOL

From: dean
Date: 14-Jun-18




That's correct, ever see those dumb plastic canoes like Colemans. They weigh about 100 pounds, they have an entrance width that is as wide as a pregnant muskrat, paddle so slow that turtles can pass you up, If you leave it in direct sunlight the bottoms collapse, but they have cup holders, you gotta have cup holders to hold the beer can. That's what's missing from most wood canvas canoes, no cup holders, I have hold my tea cup between my knees. Just kidding, they work fine for close in calm water, short distance paddling. To be honest they are heavier and more difficult to carry than a lighter kevlar canoe. I have never seen those on a canoe trip, I did see one kayak once. The next year the same group had a kevlar solo canoe for the extra paddler, according to them, it got too difficult to get it over the rougher portages. The year after that they added a Minnesota 3 20' three seater canoe. If the only thing the OP is going to do is his river system and the current is as mild as he thinks, anything that would keep him try and is reasonably accessible to get it to the water will work. We also do not know what his budget is, good kevlar canoes go for well over $2000, that versatility costs more money than what you warm water guys are used to paying.

From: TrapperKayak
Date: 14-Jun-18




I won a triathlon, the Dam to Dam Triathlon on the Bighorn River - run/canoe/bike race in Montana once (in our division - mixed doubles). I did the 6 mile run, 'we' did the canoe leg, a 13 mile paddle, and she did the bike leg, a 13 mile return to the start line. We were in a red 16 foot Coleman plastic canoe, and beat a lot of teams. We cruised by most of the other racers in their kevlars, kayaks, you name it, etc. It is mostly power and technique, and knowing how to stay in the thalweg, not the material its made of so much. Granted, you could put your chest freezer in them to process your moose and bring it out (complete with generator), but hey, they are still functional and useful for hunting out of if you don't have a long portage. Just saying... :) In fact, there is a red plastic canoe (not sure of brand) just down the road from us for sale as I speak...I might even go ask about it.. LOL! We have kayaks, but no canoe, and the dog swims by us. He may like a break from that... A fat plastic red Coleman might just be stable enough to hold Trapper's 103# and us! Plus a deer, whole. All while not having to worry about dinging it. LOL!

From: limbwalker
Date: 14-Jun-18




TrapperKayak, be sure to let us know how you make out with your dumb plastic boat! :D

From: dean
Date: 14-Jun-18




Just think how much faster you could have gone with my Minnesota 2. Me and my wife have out run young men a number of times in races for specific campsites across big lakes. I have seen those amateur canoe races, one canoe party knows what they are doing and the rest treat it like a lovely time on the water, zig-zagging around on the lake. If you enjoy paddling and camping in pristine country, take a trip to Quetico. You can rent a canoe, aluminums and kevlar, no Colemans, but you would enjoy it, at least part of the time.

From: Ron LaClair
Date: 14-Jun-18




Photos are not working

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From: TrapperKayak
Date: 14-Jun-18




I'm in no hurry to go camping mixed in with a slew of competitive weekend warriors and their beer drinking bass boat buddies. I will get there a day ahead of them on my Friday off and slip in unnoticed in my red plastic tub full of minimalistic gear, and be all set up in a solitary wilderness spot far away from the masses. I'll be fishing or hiking far sooner then they, as they are driving the next mid day, late from being hungover with the kevlars, to the numbered sites on Saturday. I hate site camping.

From: GF
Date: 14-Jun-18




Does that pic of the Wee Lassie count as child por...

Better not finish that sentence lest we come up on some kind of enforcement radar, and really, that stuff is too Evil to joke about.... But MAN, what a pretty little thing THAT is!

And I have to agree with Dean in re: the OP. A good, 16’ canoe is awfully hard to beat, and a rotomolded 15’ could be a not-too-bad second place finisher. That “Native” strikes me as on the heavy side to carry and on the low end for capacity, but we each have our own set of requirements, and aren’t we just plain damn lucky that somebody has built a boat for just about anybody??

But it’s like my little Forester; I’d rather have a 4-door, 4X4, long-box 1/2-ton pickup AND a Subie BRZ, but the Forester holds 3 hockey bags and 4 people and still gets me almost 30 MPG all-around, and better than that on my 80 mile/day commute. And to give credit where credit is due, it’s actually faster 0-60 than Dire Wolf’s Corvette, if I were willing to push it that hard - I just want it to last longer than that....

Ron’s got me beat, though - he’s got a great-looking truck and a Hog. I’ll bet he usually takes the pickup when he goes hunting. Or canoeing, for that matter.

So compromise where you must; just prioritize around your safety first. If getting wet will kill you, you’ll want to stay dry. If straining your back lifting a too-heavy boat will leave you stranded in the boonies (and then laid up for a while), avoid anything too heavy.

Beyond that, have fun!

From: dean
Date: 14-Jun-18




TK, that is exactly why I like Quetico There are historic campsites, but you can camp anywhere. We go on some trips that we only see people at the entrance lakes and the occasional canoe pass in the distance. The beer drinking bas boat folks do not go there. It is canoe only and leave no trace camping. I had a Subie Forester, I now use a 6 banger Outback for my hunting car, it just hit 35,000, it is way too fast, but it does fast really well. I use a for by six box trailer as my pickup. I use to use a six canoe trailer, but as the group spread out, I now put the canoe on top and everyone drives their own Suby to Ely for the canoe trips. You can pick a cheaper craft for a specialized situation and get by, but a more usable and versatile craft gives on more option for future varied use. Threads like this always bring out opinions of folks selling their own ideas, that's fine. but I know guys that use various sit on type kayak goobers like those from Cabelas for area ponds and sand pits that have boat ramps. Those same guys try to talk me out of my canoes when they want to go north to the wilderness areas or run the bigger rivers in the area. I do not ever lone out my canoes.

From: TrapperKayak
Date: 14-Jun-18




dean, Five of us rented sit on type kayaks on Lake powell a few years ago and paddled 3 miles to the mouth of Antelope Canyon, and on up to where the water ran out. We hiked up into the Canyon a mile or so, and came back to a different 'sky'. Got in the boats, and paddled back to the mouth of the canyon. But the wind was now howling into the canyon, and chop was beating the vertical rock walls of the canyon mouth heavily. There was no place to beach and get out of them. It was very hairy, and the girls had a very tough time paddling against the wind. The chop was echoing off the walls, amplifying the peaks. The boats were bobbing like corks in a waterfall. It was very tense for awhile, but we finally got the heck out of the canyon and back onto the main lake. We then paddled mostly with the wind back to the rental place. I have to say, those top rider kayaks were extremely stable and did not tip or roll. Had we been in any kind of canoe, it would have been lights out for some of us most likely. I was also glad we were not in the Perceptions. These sit on deals were the right thing for the conditions. So they may too be useful for hunting, but I would not bash them. They most likely kept us alive that day.

From: Bow hunt in a canoe Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Jun-18




Yep

From: dean
Date: 15-Jun-18




I admit that I am not a member of the PBLC, big deal.

From: limbwalker
Date: 15-Jun-18




Hi. I'm Dean and I throw away useful tools...

LOL

From: LaGriz
Date: 15-Jun-18




Just FYI- The Native 14.5 Ultimate weighs 65# and has a capacity of 450. They make a 16' tandem version that weighs 80# with capacity of 600#. Never had haul my present craft any great distance. I did portage a 16' canoe back in the 70's when I was an Explorer Scout. Remember one canoe 15' that had a yoke that aided in the comfort and balance. As a teenager it was a load to carry very far. Fortunately the distance required was short.

The gear we had back then was so poor. Good thing we were too dumb to notice. Lots of red & black plaid wool and rubberized non-breathable rain gear in those days. A 16 gauge crack barrel, and some fishing gear and I was in heaven like "The American Sportsman". Killed a few partridge and a rabbit on this trip. Caught some pickerel too. Very thankful that our leader Rick S. took the time to enable us to enjoy such an adventure. He returned from Vietnam and felt he need to give some of his time to a bunch of lame small town kids in Western Mass. Those hiking, camping, paddling, and hunting trips fueled my passion for the outdoors. Good memories for sure! LaGriz

From: dean
Date: 15-Jun-18




Magera, you are the most biased person on this thread, I will leave you to your ego.

From: elkster
Date: 15-Jun-18




Also very gratefull to my explorer post and scout leader in the 70's who lead us on several " 50- miler" conoe trips on current river in ozarks and other trips in mississippi. Fueled my passion for outdoors. Had a chance to thank him sunday, after 36 years!

From: Ron LaClair
Date: 16-Jun-18

Ron LaClair's embedded Photo



From: BIG BEAR
Date: 16-Jun-18




Ron.... Do you take a photographer with you on your hunts ?? Ha !! Very nice !!

From: Ron LaClair
Date: 16-Jun-18

Ron LaClair's embedded Photo



From: lost run
Date: 17-Jun-18




I have an Old Town 119 Discovery canoe. I lowered the seat 2" and it is stable enough to go solo and haul gear and a deer safely.

From: limbwalker
Date: 17-Jun-18




"Ron.... Do you take a photographer with you on your hunts ??"

Was wondering the same thing! ha, ha.

Great shots Ron. Very timeless.

From: ground hunter
Date: 17-Jun-18




Discovery, that is a great craft,,, wish I had one

From: Ron LaClair
Date: 17-Jun-18




I shot the buck in a snow storm the evening before, found him late that night. I went to a man with a camp close by to borrow his canoe to retrieve my deer. He said on one condition, that he could go along....he had a camera.

From: GF
Date: 18-Jun-18




I think if I were a decent photographer and had a chance to take pictures of Ron in his natural environment, I'd strike the same deal! (And go home with no film unexposed - just goes to show that you don't have to be purty to be photogenic... Maybe there's still hope for all of us LOL)

"Discovery, that is a great craft,,, wish I had one"

They're incredibly durable, but man, what a beast on a portage.... Maybe not so much a problem for the likes of Ron - especially in his prime - but JMO, a boat that weighs more than half as much as the guy carrying it is too damned heavy... even when the man is at his best...

At my size, that really limits the field, but there are a few 16-footers that come in pretty close and still have 1100 pounds capacity, so that's practically me and a Bullwinkle....

Not that I'm going be portaging a danged Moose!!

From: jjs
Date: 18-Jun-18




Just to add on this thread, my son recently bought a paddle board and I ask him why since I have a canoe & poke boat. He told me it was relaxing to paddle around and lay down to soak up some sun, I told him I rather be in the canoe or poke boat with a fishing pole exploring. Use to do it a lot in the younger days, not so now much from being gimp up from life of hard knocks, but the quiet water is a special time.

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 18-Jun-18




I have to agree with the opinions of the Discovery. They come in several sizes and would do well on a hunting trip. I love mine and the darn thing is just about indestructible. But as GF said you better have done your weight lifting regimen before taking one on. Mine is 16' 9" and weighs about 90 pounds and the payload capacity is supposedly 1300 pounds. I've never tested that capacity but I sure have hauled a bunch of gear and two and a half people in it. I have worked out a system for loading it on my Jeep using a two wheel canoe cart. I would never want to have to portage it alone. Don't think I could any more.

But as I get older it is time for me to find something lighter for solo paddling. Going to have to be a canoe. My kayaks are too hard for me to get out of these days. Falling into them is not a problem just getting out.

Lots of good information and opinions in this thread. Even limbwalker made some interesting comments.

From: lost run
Date: 18-Jun-18




My Discovery 119 weighs 48lbs, and is said to haul 450lbs. But as Riverwolf said find an old Royalex canoe 2' to 4' longer will only weigh 8 to 12lbs more and carry 2 people easy.

From: dean
Date: 18-Jun-18




I had the 17" 4" discovery, I think mine may have been one where they got a bit sloppy is was 108 pounds. When I saw all of those 42 pound Minnesota @s keep passing me up on both the portage trails, I decided i needed one, I bought two. The one with both sliding seats was very versatile for canoe tripping, although i would not recommend one for general river paddling.

From: dean
Date: 18-Jun-18




portage trails 'and the lakes', My voice typer winked out on me or something.





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