Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Feathers hitting side of shelf?

Messages posted to thread:
Droptine 13-May-18
Bowmania 13-May-18
Droptine 13-May-18
Jim 13-May-18
George D. Stout 13-May-18
Matt Steed 13-May-18
Droptine 13-May-18
LightPaw 13-May-18
Droptine 13-May-18
2 bears 13-May-18
tradmt 13-May-18
David McLendon 13-May-18
DarrinG 13-May-18
Kenwood 13-May-18
Kenwood 13-May-18
M60gunner 14-May-18
Therifleman 14-May-18
danny 14-May-18
ButchMo 14-May-18
Caddo 14-May-18
charley 15-May-18
rock74 15-May-18
olddogrib 15-May-18
rock74 15-May-18
fdp 15-May-18
Droptine 16-May-18
Biathlonman 16-May-18
mangonboat 16-May-18
Mpdh 16-May-18
TradFan 17-May-18
JF 17-May-18
Jarhead 17-May-18
From: Droptine
Date: 13-May-18

Droptine's embedded Photo



I recently got a 58 inch 50lb @28 Black Widow PCH in March. I love the bow , shoots great. My only issue is though, that no matter what I do I'm striking the side of my shelf. So much that it actually wore some of the finish off and I had to put mike skin down. If I shoot cock feather down it isn't as bad but it's still bad enough that I have leep some mole skin there. My nock point is half inch above Center. Is there something I'm missing or doing wrong?

Also I’m shooting 5575 gold tip tradionals , 100 grain brass insert with 175 grain tip and they fly like darts.

From: Bowmania Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-May-18




They may fly like darts, but they aren't tuned.

I would guess they're too stiff. A bare shaft will impact left of a fletched.

I'm only guessing because 5575 is a model number not a spine. 0.400 I'd guess?

www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html click on 'download printable version'.

Bowmania

From: Droptine
Date: 13-May-18




Yes those are their 400s.

From: Jim Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-May-18




Assuming your arrows are 29” BOP and your only drawing 28” and you are using a 14 strand D97? Have you tried a 500 carbon or a 2016 or 2018? Maybe try shooting cock feather in?

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-May-18




Feathers don't damage finish, arrows do. You need to visit tuning again as those arrows are hitting that shelf...I can't believe they are flying well. Get someone to stand behind you and watch them off the bow. Stiff arrows are an epidemic with people nowadays and that is probably the issue, and maybe a low nocking point as well.

From: Matt Steed Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-May-18




Try cock feather turned to about 2:15. I had a Palmer recurve that I struggled with the same problem. Mike Palmer told me to turn the cock feather inside. It did seem to help, but I hated doing that. I kept playing with brace height and nock point until I got it somewhat better.

Call the BW crew and talk to them , maybe Toby. Don’t give up and get frustrated. You will get the right combo eventually.

From: Droptine
Date: 13-May-18




Yes they’re cut to 29. I’ve tried 500 but they always shown to weak. I’ve raised my nocking point past 5/8th and they have flown not to good tail high. I’ve also tried rotating my coco feather in which also gave me the same result. On the mole skin every now and then will show some pink feather.

I’ll have to just give them a call.

From: LightPaw
Date: 13-May-18




Ran my nock point down too low and had a similar if not the same issue.

With a great release, everything was fine. But if I was sloppy, 'crack', the arrow smacked the edge of the shelf. The noise was very distinct, but I really didn't notice a major difference in arrow flight. Ugh, that noise, though. It sounded like the a whip crack.

From: Droptine
Date: 13-May-18




I’ve even shot past 40 with them flying great

From: 2 bears
Date: 13-May-18




They may be flying great but they will be flying greater when they are not crashing into the side of your bow. Kick that point weight up to 300 and see if it doesn't help. If it does then you will have proved to yourself you need a lighter spine. >>>----> Ken

From: tradmt
Date: 13-May-18




I have never been able to get a 400 to work in a bow less than about 58#.

From: David McLendon
Date: 13-May-18




Just reading your post, looking at the picture, I'd say your arrows are stiff and smashing into your riser. Not unusual as BW encourages way over spined arrows which is not required.

From: DarrinG
Date: 13-May-18




Are you dead-set on carbon arrow shafts? I see these type posts all the time with shooters using carbons. Have you considered aluminum shafts, or wood? You wont have to load up the front and do stuff to get them tuned if they are the right shaft....and it seems mucho simpler to get an aluminum or wood tuned right.

From: Kenwood
Date: 13-May-18




I have fought this for a long time. My arrows are tuned. My bareshafts hit my fletched ones. I find I make it worse, like wear through the Velcro in twenty shots, if my elbow is too high. I’m one of those guys who will always get a nock high no matter what. Keeping my elbow down helps but does not eliminate it.

From: Kenwood
Date: 13-May-18




I have fought this for a long time. My arrows are tuned. My bareshafts hit my fletched ones. I find I make it worse, like wear through the Velcro in twenty shots, if my elbow is too high. I’m one of those guys who will always get a nock high no matter what. Keeping my elbow down helps but does not eliminate it.

From: M60gunner
Date: 14-May-18




I use the same setup but with a 55# bow and 500 spine arrows. Have you tried any other spine? If all else fails put a stick on rest on the bow.

From: Therifleman
Date: 14-May-18




George nailed it. I see more people shooting arrows much stiffer than their bow wants. No need to switch from carbons-- just spend time on your form-- then spend time bareshafting for perfect tune. Consider a test kit, if needed, but im betting .500 s will work in that bow.

From: danny
Date: 14-May-18




I gave up on gold tips.The shafts are spined in 20# ranges.I shoot cedar and aluminum’s now with 100gr points,no weight forward.Wood and aluminum come in 5# ranges.My arrows fly great.

From: ButchMo
Date: 14-May-18




I went from ASL to a Leon Stewart recurve. Was getting a load "whack" coming from the riser. I quit shooting heel down like I did with an ASL. Stopped the noise. Grip makes a difference. Could also be, as suggested a high elbow.

From: Caddo
Date: 14-May-18




I'm shooting the same set up, draw length, shafts, etc. and I had to put 290 grins up front. Partially to get them to fly right (tune) and partially to get my total arrow weight up to 10 gpp, out of a 56# longbow.

LD

From: charley
Date: 15-May-18




How far do you draw that bow? I mean easily and every time. Because unless you are nearly pulling it off the shelf that arrow is gonna show stiff.

From: rock74
Date: 15-May-18




I have a Widow pretty much same specs as yours - mine is 52# @ 29", I draw it to 28 1/2" and shoot a 29 1/2" 1916 and Eskimo's with mine(2013's and 2016's flew like darts and i dont like how darts fly). Since you are shooting carbons I would bet you can get 600's not loaded up front or 500's loaded to tune out of that bow.

From: olddogrib
Date: 15-May-18




What George said.

From: rock74
Date: 15-May-18




J - Both my Widows like to be 5/8" nock height so that may help you also.

From: fdp
Date: 15-May-18




Those arrows are stiff. You can make any set of marched arrows group bare and fletched shafts together. Only thing is they aren't going to shoot correctly in to a vertical line.

Those arrows are 79lb. AMO spine. They are going to eat the shelf off that bow a little at a time. and never shoot shoot as well as they should.

What someone else set their nock at is completely irrelevant to your shooting. Get arrows impacting together on a vertical line on the target, then worry about nock location on the string.

When you tune you only fix one thing at a time.

From: Droptine
Date: 16-May-18




Thanks for the information guys, I’m drawing to 27 1/2 consistently. I’m gonna play with some 500s and see what I can work out

From: Biathlonman
Date: 16-May-18




Do you have a nock point under, that might help too. Your arrow set up sounds similar to what I shoot off if similar bows. I've always needed a shaft stiffer then folks recommend.

From: mangonboat
Date: 16-May-18




5575s cut to 29" are too stiff, for sure, and shooting off a shelf is unforgiving. 2016's cut to 29" with 160 gr up front will sing in harmony without such a high nock point.

From: Mpdh
Date: 16-May-18




Gold Tips are not spined in a 20 lb range. The variance in draw wt is dependent on arrow length and point wt. Same as all arrow shaft materials.

MP

From: TradFan
Date: 17-May-18




Had same problem with my widows. Ruined clear coat on few of them like that. Raise nocking point.

From: JF
Date: 17-May-18




A lot of good advice on here. If it were me i'd just take a rasp to the sight window and shave about 1/4" off (kidding of course).

In all seriousness,

Those 400's should work fine for that bow/your draw weight, although if possible experimenting with 500's couldn't hurt either (I have great results with a both gold tip and trad only 400's out of both 47# and 51# longbows at 28" with my 28.5" draw - 100gr brass inserts and 150gr tips; my arrow lengths, respectively, for both bows are 30.5" and 30"). With your point and insert weight I would have those arrows at 30.5-31" as a starting point (take 1/4" off when bare shafting as needed), as others have said, maybe raising your nocking point a bit as well.

Joe

From: Jarhead
Date: 17-May-18




I had the same problem with my widow. So I bought a Centaur... and... had the same problem. I elevated my rest. I shoot off a narrow strip of felt pad (what you'd put on your chair legs). Problem solved.





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