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Starting an archery program at school...

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Messages posted to thread:
htr2133 07-May-18
Bowguy 08-May-18
BOX CALL 08-May-18
Silverstreak Archer 08-May-18
arrowchucker 08-May-18
htr2133 08-May-18
StikBow 08-May-18
Bowguy 08-May-18
George D. Stout 08-May-18
moebow 08-May-18
htr2133 08-May-18
Stkbow3 08-May-18
Fletch 08-May-18
sack 08-May-18
LKH 08-May-18
Blackstick 09-May-18
htr2133 09-May-18
Lost arrow 09-May-18
George D. Stout 09-May-18
Redheadtwo 09-May-18
babysaph 10-May-18
Bowguy 10-May-18
sack 10-May-18
reddogge 10-May-18
Stucky 10-May-18
Bowguy 11-May-18
sack 11-May-18
Fletch 14-May-18
Birdy 14-May-18
sake3 14-May-18
BOX CALL 15-May-18
sake3 15-May-18
Bowguy 15-May-18
kenn1320 15-May-18
tecum-tha 15-May-18
Bowguy 15-May-18
Babysaph 15-May-18
fdp 15-May-18
Bowguy 15-May-18
Silverstreak Archer 16-May-18
sack 16-May-18
tecum-tha 16-May-18
Babysaph 16-May-18
From: htr2133
Date: 07-May-18




My children attend a private, classical school. I've inquired about the school starting an archery program and the headmaster is supportive. I would be the sponsor/coach and am willing to pursue certifications if need be.

Classical Education and archery go hand in hand in my opinion. I've been reading all day and I'm overwhelmed by all the archery organizations, leagues and event types, etc. etc. Can anyone recommend a good place for me to start or a contact?

I have read alot about the NASP program and the use of Genesis compounds. But, I would prefer to limit the program to recurves only bc of the historical component.

From: Bowguy Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 08-May-18

Bowguy's embedded Photo



NASP is a form based program. It’s very well thought out and you can get grants or loaner equipment. The transition once form is established to anything, recurve for instance or compound with release is an easy jump. You’d be crazy not to take advantage of it. If you do, do not take short cuts. Use the full format and you’d have the kids shooting like soldiers. I teach dif formats, one is NASP. It’s not in a school but at a local range.

From: BOX CALL Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 08-May-18




What is a classical school?

From: Silverstreak Archer
Date: 08-May-18




Josh,

I get wanting to use recurve/longbow to keep the historic perspective, but I would argue against it for a couple reasons. First of all, when starting a youth program, kids come in all sizes, shapes, and ability levels. The advantage of the Genesis bow is that I can adjust bows to archers. We do that with our beginners every year. As our season progresses I can adjust with students as their strength grows. These bows will also handle a variety of draw lengths.

Second, there is no mechanical advantage (let-off) with a Genesis. I go back and forth from the bows at school to my bows at home without any issue. The only thing I change is my anchor point. Get the kids started, then they can choose where they want to go in archery. Despite what sometimes gets pontificated on here about target form vs hunting form vs "I have no set form", there are some basics to form in my opinion. Your job is to teach that and then the kids can decide if they want to shoot compound or recurve. They can decide if they want to shoot target, hunt, or just stump in the backyard.

Here is something to think about though. The NASP program is designed to be implemented in a classroom setting (usually phy ed) during the school day and can then have a competitive after school club attached to it. Without the classroom component the after school group cannot compete. Also, there are restrictions with NASP. We used to bring in other kinds of bows and demo stuff for the kids to show them what was out there in the archery world. We are no longer allowed to do that. If we bring anything but a Genesis on the range we can lose our coaching certifications and have our program shut down. So depending on where you want to go with this, keep that in mind.

In case you are wondering, I am a NASP coach and have been for 12 years. I've seen a lot of changes happen in that time. Most have been for the better. Losing our freedom on the range was not a change for the better. Also, the competitive side of things has gotten pretty hardcore in some areas. As my coaching philosophy is more about teaching kids a lifelong skill and about enjoying archery, that sometimes clashes a little bit with the more competitive elements. I deal with it. Good luck getting a program of some form started! Whatever you do, it will be a great thing for those kids.

One closing thought. Whatever you do, get some training as an instructor and even if you don't get involve with NASP, study our range protocols! You are handing kids sharp pointy objects! Safety is one of my biggest concerns on the range! The NASP system is very safety conscious and that is very important!

Chris

From: arrowchucker
Date: 08-May-18




I’ve been teaching a class through the schools community Ed program for 4 years now. I get a gym, targets, safety nets insurance and the schools Genesis bows and arrows. I supply an assortment of recurves and small arrows. I’ve even bought 2 mini Genesis for some really small frame kids. 8-64 year olds have signed up. The Genesis is a great learning tool. No let off and easy to shoot and learn on. Universal fit almost. Start with the NASP or Follow NASP guidelines . Ride the wave that’s out there. And the money to pay for everything. By the end of my 8 week class about half have gravitated to recurves and half of those have bought there own. Pm me with any specific questions and I’ll be happy to help. There is help and money out there for the taking. Take it! Arrowchucker out

From: htr2133
Date: 08-May-18




Thanks guys, I’ll follow up w some PMs. The headmaster has contacted admins at some other schools and consortiums and was recommended NASP. So, it looks like I will “riding the wave” as was suggested. I admit I was being a little selfish to limit the program and I was torn about it. Thanks for the recommendations to get the program going and then let the kids decide. My better judgment was already thinking that, but I’ve got the traditional bug.

From: StikBow
Date: 08-May-18




You might pursue certification and a program that provides you insurance. Using your equipment exposes you to litigation if it breaks and causes injury. A hold harmless paper is only good-until it isn’t. Don’t mean to harsh out your mellow, but in today’s world any kid that gets injured under your care may end up owning your house and truck. I teach at 4-H and our department of wildlife and they cover me-using their equipment. When kids bring in their grandpa’s stuff to use-insepect the heck out of it.

From: Bowguy Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 08-May-18




Listen to add, what exactly do you think the difference is between trad and compound? Form is everything right? Same hand position, same back tension, same follow through. Eventually after the kids are shooting w proper form gap shooting is taught. Nothing is different except for very minor things. The recommendation to get certified is very good and necessary to get the grants. Believe it or not I bet you learn something. Being a coach/instructor takes some learning. It’s not automatic. Your eye needs to pick up things kids do in order to prevent that. I’d recommend also you get some experienced coaches. They will have the experience you’d be lacking. Each year two other instructors and myself conduct new instructor “training”. We help new instructors that help in our programs along. It’s very beneficial and makes new folks more comfortable. Another thing to consider, more kids shoot NASP than play little league baseball. If you follow the protocol you’ll realize it’s really well thought out. Why reinvent the wheel???

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 08-May-18




Just for clarity, what are you calling a 'classical school'?

From: moebow
Date: 08-May-18




This question comes up several times a year and it is REALLY good to see folks that want to spread archery to our kids!!!! ALL are fully encouraged to do it if the time and energy can be sparred. That said:

Many ONLY want to teach "traditional" archery and instantly reject ANYTHING that has "wheels" on it and that IMO is a shame! The Genesis bow IS technically a compound BUT it shoots like a recurve. It is fully adjustable for most all the students that want to shoot and most adults too. To reject what I think is the BEST beginner's bow ever produced just because it LOOKS wrong and without ever trying it to see what it is (NO wall, NO let off, constant draw weight and adjustable, shot with fingers and bare bow in the NASP) is just plain short sighted.

Grab one and shoot it and see for yourself! And please get your program started!!!! 12 million kids in programs across the country benefit from this program EVERY year.

Arne

From: htr2133
Date: 08-May-18




Claissical school means an educational model that follows hundreds of years of education until about 100 years ago when education really began to change.

Focus on rhetoric, logic, etc. Teaching kids to be lifelong learners and how to learn, test information, connect dots between disciplines and concepts. vs teaching to tests and specific concepts determined by DOE. Before anybody yells and screams at me, I also work in public education and it’s not all bad either. Many great educators out there in all models.

Thanks for all the great suggestions and thoughts on NASP. I must admit, I did dismiss it before understanding much of what has been pointed out above. I will definitely be careful on the legal/insurance matter. The board of the school will have to approve of the addition of the program and insurance (that covers me as well) will certainly be a requirement.

I am concerned about one of the comments above that under NASP you can’t even expose students to other bows or types of archery equipment. That seems to go against the very mission of NASP. My goal will be to start a club team that meets after school hours primarily. Bc that works best in my schedule. I’d like to have the team compete in several events 3-5 the first season. In addition, I’d like to offer invites to the team and parents to shoot 3D shoots on some of the local ranges. That would not be officially part of the club season, just a way to get more time and experience together. Will NASP be ok with that?

I have no desire or time to integrate this into the PE curriculum. Although, the PE coach may desire to seek certification as well and he can have at it. I do plan to seek certification as well precisely for the reasons given above and I’m quite sure I will personally benefit from the training.

Thanks!

From: Stkbow3
Date: 08-May-18




Think more about putting a smile on a child's face than what kind of bow you are putting in their hands. I am a Nasp instructor and the genesis bows are fine tools

From: Fletch
Date: 08-May-18




Congrats on taking the initiative starting the archery program. Good luck. Hope your students appreciate your efforts, and enjoy themselves.

From: sack
Date: 08-May-18




Hard to beat NASP and equipment.Their tournament format(local/state/national/international)is hard to beat if the kids want competition Doesn't mean you can't introduce trad along the way.You'd also be helping lots of manafacturers along the way who can help via grants,,plus your state wildlife depts. Sack

From: LKH Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 08-May-18




Here in MT I donated some arrow catching nets to the Lewistown school for an archery program they were starting. Reason I mention it is that the state was helping them get it started.

Maybe yours will too???

From: Blackstick Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 09-May-18




The OP is also not thinking outside of the box when talking about introducing kids to 3D. NASP holds 3D tournaments on the State and National level. As a NASP instructor, on a regular basis, I take in three or four 3D targets for the kids to shoot at. This last week of school we are going to my local club to shoot at all their targets set up in the woods, just for fun.

From: htr2133
Date: 09-May-18




Thanks all, Blackstick, its not that I'm not thinking out of the box it is that I am unfamiliar with NASP and trying to understand all the comments in the thread. If NASP holds 3d tourneys, that is awesome! I plan to do like you once I have a small team, we will frequent some local clubs for 3d shoots.

From: Lost arrow
Date: 09-May-18




htr2133 I sent you a PM

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 09-May-18




Our schools were like that until the 1970's when the more 'liberal' format was being introduced. Where I grew up, education was still old style up to that point. Matter of fact, I went to a one-room school until 1957 in rural Cumberland County.

From: Redheadtwo
Date: 09-May-18




I had it lined up with the AD at the high school where my wife worked/kids went when NASP informed the two of us that the only instructors were to be teachers at the school and archery instruction was to be only during school hours.

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 10-May-18




where i live they don't allow weapons on the school grounds

From: Bowguy Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 10-May-18




It’s been tested in court. Archery gear with a coach is a sport not a weapon like those violent baseball bats.

From: sack
Date: 10-May-18




Redhead...sending a pm Sack

From: reddogge
Date: 10-May-18




I'm not a NASP instructor or coach but have worked the tournaments as a range official. One thing I noticed is all kids whether 6'3" tall or 4'3" tall shoot the same bows and arrows. You get some reall weird arrow flight from them but in the end it all is good. Our tournaments are target or 3D and the kids can compete in one or the other or both.

From: Stucky
Date: 10-May-18




Start with the DNR. Here in Michigan, they teach levels I and II instructor course. They also give a massive discount on a starter kit. It has bows, targets, arrows and I think caviar stop. This is all for schools.

Good luck

From: Bowguy Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 11-May-18




Level one and level 2 aren’t NASP. They’re USA archery. A little different and I’m no fan of lots of that stuff like anchoring on a chin. It’s not as transferable to other methods.

From: sack
Date: 11-May-18




USA archery cert will not qualify you to teach NASP just like 4H will not honor NASP,etc even though they all teach the same basic safety,whistles,range ,setup. They all have their own quirks and objectives and teach to them. All good though...natural progression from beginner to Oly goals. Sack

From: Fletch
Date: 14-May-18




FYI.

There is legislation pending in NY state to eliminate all high school shooting sport programs in NY state.

This includes rifle (smallbore/ .22LR), air rifle, shotgun ( trap/skeet),......AND ARCHERY.

In light of this anti-shooting political climate, actions like the original poster are even more important for the future of “ shooting sports.”

Perhaps we all should follow his lead and do what each of us can in our own locales.

Keep up the good work. Hope the students make the program take off and expand. Again, “we’ll done.”

From: Birdy
Date: 14-May-18




Wow great work

From: sake3
Date: 14-May-18




TEACH ARCHERY! Bravo! Anything you can do to spread interest and involvement with archery is so important for the preservation of the sport,skill and discipline and fun that is Archery.//Fletch's post is of vital interest.Archery must not be included in the firestorm that threaten shooting programs and rights.Someone in Florida has also introduced similar legislation attacking both shooting and archery programs in the school. Compound,trad or Olympic archery needs all the good publicity that can be earned or grabbed.Kudos to all you who teach- school,family or friends.

From: BOX CALL Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 15-May-18




I helped a local school one year with their physical education archery program.got all their bows set up with nocking points and checked all the arrows and made sure everything was up to snuff.gym teacher came and checked on me and said he was taking the stuff out for class.I grabbed a couple target butts to carry out,and was told I couldn't help cause I wasn't staff there.well,I left and since then the archery program closed.

From: sake3
Date: 15-May-18




It's a continual effort to hold an archery program together.The school gym where i do/teach recreational archery has targets,bows,arrows etc.When the archery enthusiast who was the gym teacher left,the school stopped incorporating archery into its PE program.I've offered to certify the next 3 PE teachers as instructors,but no one was very interested.i ain't got much steam left in my boiler but I applaud any effort to promote archery(even gasp compounds)

From: Bowguy Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 15-May-18




Sounds like guys are giving up. Keep at it, keep our sport alive, keep teachin

From: kenn1320
Date: 15-May-18




Nasp requires at least one teacher at the school be certified. Typically thats the gym teacher, but doesnt have to be. You are required to instruct something like 10hrs during the school year to retain your nasp standing. You can have after school club if you meet the above requirements. Nasp is huge, we just had over 14k students and 663 teams compete in Louisville Kentucky last weekend. The equipment will leave you scratching your head, but some of the kids make it work well. There are state and regional competitions as well as nationals and worlds. Worlds is also in Louisville KY and is June 7-9.

FYI Michigan DNR just dropped nasp. They only have so much money and those funds are better spent elsewhere. When I say dropped, I mean they will no longer staff the state competition or provide that equipment. I dont know any more than that, just what I heard second hand.

From: tecum-tha Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 15-May-18




NASP is trying to make archery a team sport and make it a standardized equipment sport. Neither of these things are true to archery. Archery is an individual sport and requires decently matched equipment. The standardized NASP arrow is a 1820 Easton aluminum and is freaking heavy and for most archers "mismatched" for their bows. S3DA ( https://www.s3da.org/) is the better program imho. In our area the kids which are serious are getting into s3DA and leave NASP alone. Allows the kids to shoot their equipment and has a traditional class. I have never had a kid I taught that preferred the heavy and clumsy Genesis bow over a longbow/recurve matched to their body size. NASP doesn't teach anything about the technical aspects of archery and a lot of NASP teachers really have no clue what they are doing. My protégé is a 2 times IBO World Champion and one time TAS World Champion and his gym teacher wanted to tell him how to properly release an arrow according to NASP. He hated this kind of archery and not only because of the less than informed teacher.

From: Bowguy Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 15-May-18




The last post is crazy inaccurate. Let me see more kids are involved in NASP than play little league baseball. The National tournament I think 3 years in a row broke world records. The only reason it wasn’t more is they refused to pay to have the committee come out and certify numbers. I don’t think a longbow/recurve shoot ever did that?? I’m a stykbow guy but let’s be honest about it all. NASP is prob one of the best thought out beginner programs there is and they certainly teach “technical” sides of the sport. One “protege” is not history by any means. Look at top shooters. Many are way flawed, they can shoot upside down or whatever if they absolutely repeat. Bad form can be repeated. Some school age child could benefit if they’d listen to a certified and competent instructor. Even great can be greater. We don’t know what we don’t know as tbe post above is proof

From: Babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 15-May-18




You bring a bow or gun on school grounds where I live and you will go to jail.

From: fdp
Date: 15-May-18




Bowguy....I couldn't possibly agree more than I do with your post.

From: Bowguy Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 15-May-18




Babysapf no one said the kids had to bring anything to school. It’s provided and secured. As I stated archery has been tested in court. If it’s being taught by certified instructors in a school it’s a sport. Taking any other stance on it like accepting some nonsense isn’t thought out. There’s never been a mass shooting w genesis bows. Remember they’re secured, we keep ours locked up at one range I teach at until time comes to shoot. On the other hand people have been bludgeoned w baseball bats and cut up w knives and swords. How come baseball and fencing are ok?

Thank you fdp

From: Silverstreak Archer
Date: 16-May-18




Good Morning All,

This thread has gone to some interesting places. Item one, NASP does not emphasize team over the individual any more than the Olympics do. You shoot as both a member of a team and as an individual. There are competition categories for both. Item two, yup, the equipment isn't perfect for everyone. That said, one of the things I have always liked about NASP is that it levels the playing field. You don't have one team with a rich benefactor showing up with super tricked out bows and another team with hand-me-downs. Not to mention, some of our kids couldn't afford to be involved if they had to provide their own equipment. It would also make it much harder to control the safety of the equipment. As it is, we inspect and maintain the bows and are pretty well on top of equipment issues. Item three, when we first started the archery program the school weapons policy did have to be amended to allow the program, but that was an easy fix. We do have students who have their own Genesis bow and we did meet with administration on how to handle the transport of those bows to and from school if needed.

Chris

From: sack
Date: 16-May-18




Amen..Bowguy and Silverstreak. NASP doesn't push team..it only uses the top 12 scores to find the team..plus the team has to include 25% opposite gender. Yes,the equipment doesn'y fit all..what equipment does??? Work with the bow/arrow combo and you can get great arrow flight. Our students have a decent selection of my "frankenbows" to try out but most choose the Genesis...plus they handle the dry fires you invaribly get when dealing with kids. If it wasn't for NASP the kids here wouldn't have a snowball's chance to experience archery.In 5 years of the program,we've touched 600+ students lives with bow and arrow.Out of that multitude,maybe 10 have purchased their own Genesis...a few others choose compounds and traditional as they got older but at least they have a working knowledge of purchasing a bow later in life. Love NASP !! Can you tell? Sack

From: tecum-tha Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 16-May-18




To each their own. An "archery" program that does not allow an inferior bow (longbow/recurve) than the sanctioned bow and makes kids shoot mismatched arrows won't have my support. No matter if it broke "world records" in participation or "levels the playing" field.

From: Babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 16-May-18




Don't care who keeps them or where they are locked up. Tested in court or not they would not be allowed here by the flower sniffing soccer moms.





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