Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


1962 Howatt Hunter question: Larry?

Messages posted to thread:
crookedstix 18-Apr-18
crookedstix 18-Apr-18
T4halo 18-Apr-18
BigHorn 18-Apr-18
cueman 18-Apr-18
S.M.Robertson 18-Apr-18
crookedstix 18-Apr-18
wonderbowman 18-Apr-18
David McLendon 18-Apr-18
Knifeguy 18-Apr-18
larryhatfield 18-Apr-18
crookedstix 18-Apr-18
larryhatfield 18-Apr-18
T4halo 18-Apr-18
Jim 18-Apr-18
Renewed Archer 18-Apr-18
Renewed Archer 18-Apr-18
Brad Lehmann 18-Apr-18
crookedstix 18-Apr-18
Renewed Archer 18-Apr-18
Ghostbow 18-Apr-18
larryhatfield 18-Apr-18
Ghostbow 18-Apr-18
Timbukto 18-Apr-18
HARRY CARRY 18-Apr-18
twostrings 18-Apr-18
Pdiddly 18-Apr-18
Buzz 18-Apr-18
T4halo 18-Apr-18
crookedstix 19-Apr-18
From: crookedstix
Date: 18-Apr-18

crookedstix's embedded Photo



And my question is: How many of the bowyers at Howatt could do the shaping on these deeply-sculpted 1962 risers that the Hunter, Monterey, and Ventura all had? And how long did it take to make all of these curves--did they have a separate sander or template for each curve, or did they just do it by eye?

I don't think there was ever another production hunting-length bow, before or since, that had a riser as complex in its shape as the '62 Hunter/Monterey...I mean, there isn't a straight line or flat plane anywhere on this whole riser.

I don't know how much these sold for new in 1962--maybe $75??--but it sure seems like a hell of a deal.

From: crookedstix
Date: 18-Apr-18

crookedstix's embedded Photo



So much was just right in 1962--they had the 3M glass in that nice jade green; they still had the really nice rosewood to work with; they had the knife-edges (not just in the sight window, but also at the base of the riser...and of course they had those limbs with the differential-tapered lams.

I can't imagine what it would cost to produce a bow like this nowadays...I really don't know whether to shoot this one or send it to some art museum.

From: T4halo
Date: 18-Apr-18




Please send to the T4 Art Museum of Michigan. We are looking for such fine works of art.

Probably one of the finest production bows ever made!!

Scratch that, One of the finest bows of ANY kind ever made.

T4

From: BigHorn
Date: 18-Apr-18




The ct bow museum is in need of that exact piece. Well happily pay for shipping and put your name under its resting place??

From: cueman
Date: 18-Apr-18




Kerry, they were running $55 at that time. The Monterey cost $10 more as did the Diablo. That must have been the because of the fancy stripes in the risers. The Catalina was $85 because it was bigger!

I purchased Brazilian Rosewood billets a few years ago when I could still find some. 3 pieces big enough to build that riser ran me $135 a square, so $405 for the riser alone. Not sure what it would run today if I could even find it.

From: S.M.Robertson
Date: 18-Apr-18




that is one beautiful bow. Bet it shoots just as good as it looks.

From: crookedstix
Date: 18-Apr-18




It's good to have these offers of curatorial assistance; rest assured that I will find it a good home, heheh.

Tony, you're quite right to just get rid of that word "production;" I think a better word for these old Howatts might be artisan bows, because they seem to have done everything they possibly could to build them as well as a bow could be built. Kenny, that $55 price is just mind-blowing; even for 1962. No wonder they only made this riser for one year...they couldn't have been making a new nickel for an old one at that price.

From: wonderbowman
Date: 18-Apr-18




I sure hope Larry responds to this, in his book.

Am I harping on the book thing again Larry...You bet your boots I am. :)

From: David McLendon
Date: 18-Apr-18




Sure would love to find one of those with the shelf on the other side between 50#-65#

From: Knifeguy
Date: 18-Apr-18




Beautiful bow Kerry. I claim Dibs. I live in WA. Let us know how it shoots. Lance

From: larryhatfield
Date: 18-Apr-18

larryhatfield's embedded Photo



Kerry, we were just coming off piece work at that time. There were just three bowyers then. The piece work rate for a hunter was $4.50 each. We read the customers letter, had glue-up put the bow in the press, sometimes got it out of the press, cleaned the glue off, rough shaped the limbs and some of the riser on a 6X36 sears sander with the platen stood on end, finished shaping the riser with a tapered 14" wood rasp and the sander, let the sander down flat and finished tapering the limbs, completely hand sanded all surfaces to a ready for 1st. coat condition and carried the bow over to the paint shop. Had to do 4-5 per day to make enough money to keep our job. No templates of any kind, for any purpose. Just quick wood sculpting at speed, all by hand. Still shaped that way until 2012, but with a sander pair I built for that purpose in 1962, when your bow was made. Then we could shape so quickly we went to hourly wages. The cavalier model under piece work was $2.50@. We did 14-16 per day, each, of those. With the upright sander I could do 40 warthog compound risers and 30 or more recurves every day in the early seventies. We never did use any kind of template.

From: crookedstix
Date: 18-Apr-18




Many thanks for that information, Larry! That 1962 riser was really an amazing piece of work. Somebody had their thinking cap on when they doped out all of those lines and curves, for sure. The other amazing thing is to see how the riser changed from 1960 (walnut w/ rosewood caps) to 1961 (rosewood 3-strip), which was spectacular in its own right; but then the additional sculpting that came in 1962. A high point in the era, in my humble opinion.

From: larryhatfield
Date: 18-Apr-18




Forgot that we made some outline templates in the late sixties to speed up the rough sawing and sanding of the riser, but that was the only thing we used. Hard to teach new people how to do shaping because so much of it was just in our heads. Never needed more than 2 people after the machines i built, even when we were doing thousands of bows per year. Don't understand how people today are so far behind in bow production when they are so easy to do. At the every last of Howatts, we still used a sander to remove fiberglass where we were going to bandsaw, a sight window sander I built, a "rough out sander for high speed bulk material removal and the shaper sander shown in the picture. One person could do 30-40 bows a day of all models easily. After the new machines were in use, we could do any shape so quickly and easily it really expanded our Imagineering of riser shapes.

From: T4halo
Date: 18-Apr-18




That was some fantastic history. Thank you for sharing Larry. Nothing today compares to those 60's Howatts. Nothing!

T4

From: Jim Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 18-Apr-18




Larry, you are "The Man"

From: Renewed Archer
Date: 18-Apr-18

Renewed Archer's embedded Photo



What a beautiful bow! And great history, we're so fortunate Mr. Hatfield can answer these questions.

Kerry, I vote you should shoot it. At least in the back yard. I recently got a 1962 Ventura, 66" 35# and started shooting it. It's the smoothest bow I own or have owned and I have many great bows.

This was my best shot shooting the Ventura today. From 33 yards. It doesn't get any better. Shoot your hunter, that's what it was made for.

From: Renewed Archer
Date: 18-Apr-18

Renewed Archer's embedded Photo



Hmm... that photo came out sideways. Here's another of just the bow.

From: Brad Lehmann
Date: 18-Apr-18




That's a good looking bow, Shandor.

From: crookedstix
Date: 18-Apr-18




Tony, I think a lot of us would agree with your sentiment about how special those early 60's Howatts were...and somehow it makes them even more special when Larry takes us behind the scenes like this. I get the same good vibes when Fred Anderson talks about the way they made them in San Diego back in those days. If somebody told me I could only have Howatts, FASCOs, or Drakes...I guess I wouldn't complain!

From: Renewed Archer
Date: 18-Apr-18




LOL! Brad. You should know. You sold it to me. Or have you sold so many bows you forgot?

BTW, folks... Brad ONLY sells good looking bows. If you have the good fortune to get one from him.

From: Ghostbow
Date: 18-Apr-18




What a treat! Is there any way that somebody could get Larry back in to the design and manufacturing of today's bows for someone? I know its wishful thinking as Mr. Hatfield has other interests and is still adding to the resume' of his amazing and diverse life. Thanks for contributing here on The Wall Larry!

From: larryhatfield
Date: 18-Apr-18

larryhatfield's embedded Photo



Right now 4 of us are trying to build a longbow that will set new records in flight. My part in that endeavor is quite small so I have lots of time to shoot my bows and do my ranching. That will be the sum of any design effort for me. This is my work now. Been doing it since I was 5 years old. Kind of a habit now.

From: Ghostbow
Date: 18-Apr-18




It's a beautiful sight Larry.

From: Timbukto
Date: 18-Apr-18




A 62 hunter is my dream hunting bow 55#. In 1960 my grand dad bought a hi speed my dad bought a Catalina a year or two later. When I was 17 I bought a bushmaster. Howatt are a family thing. I bought my son a 66 hi speed he is 8 it will be a decade before he will be shooting it, but it is his.

From: HARRY CARRY
Date: 18-Apr-18




After reading your descriptions and details, Larry, I certainly hope you had you hand in creating the two Vigilante's I have (EVO1173, and EUA927L/maybe EUC927L), and my Eldorado Palomar (EDP22373).

All three are LEFTY, and weights in the low 30s.

Magnificent bows....to which I say "Thank You"...

From: twostrings
Date: 18-Apr-18




You got a nice office Larry.

From: Pdiddly
Date: 18-Apr-18

Pdiddly's embedded Photo



Very nice bow Kerry...and a great piece of history Larry! One picture is worth a thousand words. I have heard that sanding machine described and now that I see it I understand how it works.

Did you use a file for some of that work on the knife edges?

Here is a 1962 Hunter that once belonged to...you guessed it...crookedstix!

I hope he hangs onto the one he has now (or sells it to me too!)

After all, there were only around 1500 of them made that year.

From: Buzz
Date: 18-Apr-18




Thanks Larry for the Howatt history.

From: T4halo
Date: 18-Apr-18




Kerry, My Hunter is a couple years newer than yours, a real pleasure to shoot and looks great too. My knife edge Diablo has cinamon glass and drop dead gorgeous. (thanks, Kenny) I wish I could shoot my Super D like the other two earlier bows, but I can't. Might have to let her go in search of older Howatts. The bows from the 70's are nice but not like those early to mid 60's bows.

T4

From: crookedstix
Date: 19-Apr-18




I can't believe I sold that '62 to Peter. What was I thinking! The draw weight must have been in the 40's, or some other tragic flaw.

I want one of those 14" tapered rasps like Larry was mentioning; I could do some serious damage with one of those.





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