Carbon Express makes arrow shafts denominated "DS", for "dual spine". CX claims these are more accurate or penetrate better, and charges more for them than for the non DS version. For those who shoot these or are familiar with them, are they any better? And if they acCarbon Express makes arrow shafts denominated "DS", for "dual spine". CX claims these are more accurate or penetrate better, and charges more for them than for the non DS version. For those who shoot these or are familiar with them, are they any better? And if they really do have two zpines, how do you predict in advance how well they would tune?

Sorry a out the word processing pronlen in that post. Here is the corrected one: Carbon Express makes arrow shafts denominated "DS", for "dual spine". CX claims these are more accurate or penetrate better, and charges more for them than for the non DS version. For those who shoot these or are familiar with them, are they any better? And if they really do have two spines, how do you predict in advance how well they would tune?

Dual spine...HA HA HA HA ..That's a good one!

There is pretty good chance that the "dual spine" stuff is just a bit of marketing-fluff nonsense; but it would be helpful to hear from someone who shoots Carbon Express "DS" shafts.

Seen that, thought about the same things and thinking a Bullshit Flag is in order.

Maybe they will be the best thing since sliced white bread out of my dual shelf Kodiaks... ;-)

So....I've looked up what information I could find.

Sounds like maybe the front section is stiffer than the remainder of the shaft to make it front heavy?

Fdp: That is what the manufacturer wants us to believe. If it is true, Then I would have this problem: If I order .400 spine arrows, I have a certain expectation about how they will tune with my bow if they are cut to a certain length witk a certain number of grains up ftont. But if tge front half of that Rrow is a stiffer spine -- some unknown spine -- how can I know what to expect? This is not making sense to me.

So which end do you base your set up on? Even so there should be an overall spine which will be grossly effected by which end you trim. I don't hunt Cape Buffalo and am not an FOC fan so I'll be taking a pass on this technology.

Darned if I know. I'm confused about what the dynamic affect would be.

Probably a case of I'm just not smart enough to understand.

Marketing...

My CE Heritage sticks are flying just fine.

I'm waiting for the tri-spine myself.

Thank God for aluminium

Thank God for aluminum x 2

I know quite a few guys around here that shoot the Code Red, they are still overall the spine they are sold as. They are very forgiving. I think they just use a stiffer wrap in the mid portion of the arrow with a section at the front and back without it. If you want to shorten the arrow, most guys I know cut equal portions from front and back. They are not all that durable though, but most of the guys I know that shoot them are willing to live with that because of how forgiving they are and the fact that they can use the same arrow off multiple bows! I've shot them and it is impressive how they will fly so well from a multitude of different spec bows!

would a tapered shaft be a multi-spine??

In the end people are going to believe what they want to believe. Unless you actually shoot and test these, you can't really have a full understanding of what they do. That being said I do shoot both dual and tri spine arrows. Nothing is going to beat a perfectly tuned Arrow no matter how many spines it has. What I do find from personal experience is that both the duel and tri spined is a more forgiving Arrow when mismatched in spine to your bow weight. I can take my Maxima recurve RZs and shoot better scores with a mismatch spine against a mismatched brand X. I'm talking about the same amount mismatched so if I need a full length 500 I'm shooting full-length 400s. It's not going to be totally mind-blowing, but it can be seen if you are looking for it.

It does make sense that they would perform something like a tapered shaft. I have a fair number of ArrowDynamics tapers around... They won’t bare-shaft out of any of my bows even with gobs of extra weight up front, but I never knew I had a spine issue until I caught one flying tail-right in a slow-mo video. That was about 9-10 yards down-range with 4” helical shields, but then they just snapped into line...

I guess at the cost of carbons I’m not prepared to accept poor durability, but lately I’ve been wishing my Tributes seemed a little tougher...

Curious, though... Are these being marketed as a Hunting shaft, or Target? Maybe it’s all good either way, but I have an idea that a softer-in-the-tail Hunting arrow should out-penetrate an arrow that’s uniform along its length.

I won't spent the money on code red dual spine. I do have some CX weight forward shafts that fly well out of my compound. I got them cheap on camofire, I think they are the Mayhem Hunter. I mostly shoot the GT blems with my trad gear.

Probably a marketing ploy like GT naming their arrows 1535, 3555, 5570 etc. Just means you can tune an arrow within these weight ranges.

My GT trads must be 20 spine. They say 35 to 55, or 55 to 75. HaHa!

MP

Here's a thought - if you don't think they work or if you think they are marketing BS, then just don't buy them.

Pretty simple.

I don't see the point in coming on a forum and badmouthing products when you don't personally know the facts, and I doubt anyone here really does.

I shoot "tri-spine" CX target arrows and can tell you they work.

This is nothing new. They've been making d's shafts for prolly 15 year i know of. The rear third or so is stiffer than the front 2/3. But the fronts heavier. This way only 2/3 of the arrow flexes. I'm not a carbon guy but I have friends who have used em 15 year or more n loved em.

I shoot the Carbon Express SD's, and like the shaft. Carbon Express has done wonders with carbon shafting, and the lil things they do do help with arrow flight and broadhead flight. Like Limbwalker said, if you have no experience with something, why bash the product? A call to Carbon Express might make more sense before saying something you know nothing about.

The only down side, as oldgoat mentioned, is they ain't as durable as my fire and ice shafts from Element Archery. They do tend to break easily. That's the only downfall to these shafts that I know of, and a lot of guys like the Maxima Red's...

So it's really about semantics. A tri-spine is then what a barreled wood would be called...if one wanted to use the term. Seems a bit misleading, but then whatever works.

As for one arrow being more accurate than another, I would ask how people were shooting perfect field rounds in the early 1970's with the arrows of the day. And in the late 70's, again..even with the scoring change on the field faces, many guys were still turning in perfect field scores with their comppound bows and releases. Gale Cavallin shot a perfect field round as an amateur in 1970 before turning pro. So as for an arrow being more accurate, maybe you can elaborate on that.

I've shot the CE Pile Driver. It's labeled dual spine. Basically it's got a thick wrap over the first 70ish percent of the shaft. It makes it nose heavy and probably makes the nock end weaker than the point. No idea if it helps flight at all. Will vouch for it being extremely tough, good 5/16" shaft if you want a heavy arrow, but lack heavy broadheads. All and all it's a good shaft.

"Basically it's got a thick wrap over the first 70ish percent of the shaft" I think that's the answer most folks were seeking.

Fdp, not exactly the answer anyone is looking for. Maxima blue rz is a tri spined arrow with 0 wrap. Same can be said about the nano pro xtreme and nano SST. Mayhem DS has no wrap either and thats a dual spine.

Ok, so I'm still curious about this.

Are the shafts simply straight tapered (in the case of the dual spine) and barrell tapered (in the case of the triple spine) shaft's?

As I said previously, the information provided by the manufacturer isn't really clear.

"So it's really about semantics. A tri-spine is then what a barreled wood would be called...if one wanted to use the term. Seems a bit misleading, but then whatever works. "

George, you're technically correct, but are these new shafts barrel-shaped? Heck, the makers have probably never even heard of the barrel tapered shaft! It may be 'marketing' or just an honest attempt to descibe the product.

Personally I think 'wood grained' carbons are a load of marketing hooey.

I don’t know about the dual/triple spine thing, but I do have a little experience with a CX Maxima Hunter 250, which is clearly way overspined for a low #50s longbow, but which seems to fly just fine out of it anyway... given enough feather...

I used it last week at the Trad Shoot that mcgroundstalker put together; there’s an iron bear on the course and I figured I’d be better off using an expendable arrow....

Hit an inch high; there was a nice, loud PTANG!, an explosion of fletching that looked like an orange sparrow had swallowed an M-80, and the shaft bounced about 2/3 of the way back to me. This is what happened to the point; pretty solid hit.

Checked the shaft.... zero damage apart from the nock gone MIA.

So the other day, I bomb-proofed it a bit further with 1 1/4” of 2117 up front around the insert and the tail end of the aluminum glued onto the back so I can glue a fresh nock onto the taper.

Wouldn't give you $20.00 for a barrel full of carbons anyway. ;)

Where is Bobo, by the way.

Why are wood grained carbons a marketing hooey?? I have no issues shooting a wood grained carbon at all.

The shafts aren't tapered at all, just other carbon stiffer carbon fibers are weaved into the shaft then the entire shaft has a solid weave over it. Why not just go to the Carbon Express web site and read about it, and go to youtube and watch videos about it.

I did go to the web sight and read about it. The information isn't particularly clearly defined.

Particularly when you get respnses like this from folks who are shooting them "Fdp, not exactly the answer anyone is looking for.".

Not much of a YouTube fan to be honest. Most folks n YouTube are hacks of one type or another in my experience.

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