With the recent post's on instinctive style of shooting, I wanted to share some recent results. I shoot purely instinctive, I realize it is only one style of many. On Good Friday driving into our club I saw a guy I know that shoots both recurve and longbow. He was shooting his compound outdoors. I stopped and joined him with my recurve. He was shooting 30 yards at a 3/4" by 1 1/2" piece of painters tape in the middle of the 30 yard bail. I asked if he minded if I shot with him, so we took turns, each loosing three arrows. My first shot was 6"right, perfect elevation, My next two were in the tape. He also missed his first shot, but not by much, his next two at least cut the tape. Last night indoors I shot three arrows from 39 yards at a 4" bull, it was a corner to corner shot as we have a shot at a 3D frog if your ticket is pulled at half time on Monday 3D league for money, this week if your ticket is drawn and you cut the 11 ring you win the aprox. $250 pot! So I was practicing on the off chance I get drawn, anyway, I took three shots 39 yards 4" bull on an extreme angle and hit it two out of three, shooting a 4" group for three shots! I was a little surprised I did that well. I am currently averaging mid 240 on 300 spot league, my question is, what do you consider accurate enough? I can certainty do any hunting I want to with this level of accuracy.

What is "accurate enough" is a self imposed limit, not a standard. Train smart and don't limit yourself to what the other are saying.

Well.....accurate enough is dependent on the shooting environment.

If you are deer hunting all you need is to be able to hit a volleyball/basketball size target. If you're wanting to be successful in a 300 round, you need to be in the high 270's or above.

Now, what is accurate enough for a particular person? that answer lies strictly with them and no on else.

I always thought Viper's numbers based on the NFAA rating are the best as guidance:

Archer 0 –189 (D – class) Bowman 190 – 209 (C – class) Expert B 210 – 249 (B – class) Expert A 250 – 279 (A – class) Expert AA 280 – 300 (AA – class)

If you want numbers, here they are.

Those sound reasonable Draven.

Set your goals and the training path to meet them, You decide what is adequate, your success and satisfaction need not be validated by others.

Good advice. You are all correct, it is an individual sport. We all strive to improve and get better at this sport. Like all sports it really is a mental game. I am happy to average 246 at 300 spot league but know that I can do better. I'm closer to 60 then I like to admit, so I need to lose some weight and get in better physical condition if I want to improve.

The "I" word is just a word. Each individual should shoot how they want. Shooting a bow is a matter of what you enjoy and how you enjoy it.

Shoot how you want but remember just one thing. If you hunt, you owe the Animal as clean a death as you can give it. If you miss a target or 2D Animal it is just a matter of finding your arrow.

There is one thing for sure, Archery is fun, and should be kept that way.

I have found in my experience if you have fun with it, you will less likely to pick TP and other maladies.

Be anal about sharp broadheads and tuning your bow for straight entry, good broadhead flight and do the best you can to take a shot at a broadside/calm animal.

Short blood trails can be had no matter how you shoot if you have put in the time to the very best of your ability.

Enjoy the flight of the Arrow.

"Good advice. You are all correct, it is an individual sport. We all strive to improve and get better at this sport. Like all sports it really is a mental game. I am happy to average 246 at 300 spot league but know that I can do better. I'm closer to 60 then I like to admit, so I need to lose some weight and get in better physical condition if I want to improve."

Sixty was nothing so don't worry about it, I'll be be 61 on May 6th, and I plan to go back to AK next year at 62 on the Tikchik River on a DIY moose hunt, and I plan to be in the best possible shape I can be in. Set your goals, and the calculate your path and schedule to success.

We all have different ideas of what accuracy is.

[[[ "We all have different ideas of what accuracy is." ]]]

Quoted for fact, and emphasis on the understatement. 8^)

Rick

Well said, all!

I am 61, David. Aches and pains a little more each year but we keep moving, don't we? I have to keep moving or I get too stiff to move. 2 and 3 are ruptured and 5 and 6 are herniated. I was lucky to pack out my own Elk for years. I will need surgery probably this summer and just finished my first Nuero surgeon visit. Have to wait till June because of insurance requirements for surgery.

Hanging in pretty well, I wish that I had done a few less things in youth but it was fun. I'm in the gym usually 4 days a week, running about 3 days a week right now and hiking with my pack on mountain bike trails when weather and time permits. It was snowing here last night, I'm still waiting for spring.

Only you can determine your (ethical) efectiv range.I practice @ 80yds with my compound & have never shot at an animal past 50yds. I practice with traditional bows @ 30yds & have never shot at an animal past 20. a fatialy wounded unrecovered animal is absolutely gut wrenching to me & I am very conservative in my trad bow efectiv range at (live) targets

Please be careful with your words yes the kill zone on an adult deer front of lungs to back of liver & top of lungs to bottom of hart is basketball sized (but) an enixperenced hunter looking for direction on this forum could perceive that basketball sized groups are adequate enough to hunt. Jmo

Accurate enough is shooting like that and not being surprised.

When it gets dry and warmer, i have a kid coming over for shooting. Accurate enough will be somewhere on my 4' by 6' target, but i still starting him out with HTM points..

Sam: Your first post is dead on, well said!!!

I just learned from fella's like you bro.

This shot from 30 yards with a 30# bow is accurate enough for me. Anything else is not accurate enough... for me. Even if I'm pleased if I get close.

Personally, I don't think we should settle for less than a perfect shot, even if we don't achieve it most of the time. What's the point of practice to improve our shooting, if we aren't trying to hit the smallest spot we can see? IMO our goal should always be a perfect shot. We can still be amazed if we get it.

That shot is perfection no doubt. I have found that perfection is a completely unrealistic ideal in the real world of shooting, and everything else. Doing your best is always laudable, however a wise man acceapts his flaws, and has realistic expectations of his ability. Having a mindset where only perfection is truly acceptible isn't going to make for a happy and peaceful man that enjoys life.

If someone wants to know how accurate he is, put a piece of paper in whatever color you want under the point you want to hit and shoot 100 times one arrow. The holes will tell the story.

More than 6" off with actual bowhunting setup I'm depressed.

Renewed Archer has got it.

However, last fall, my daughter just shot into a paper plate a few times at 10yd for her first day of shooting with a 30# remake Kodiak and was thrilled. It's not much, just point and release, but if it made her day, that was good enough.

Bob, I'm very happy with shots that aren't perfect as long as they are pretty good. For me that means a 4-6" group from 30 yards. I have a lot of fun shooting even if I don't get a perfect shot. Just sayin', if we don't shoot at one small spot and try to hit it, how can we be accurate... even if shots aren't perfect?

Then there's the added benefit that sometimes we do hit exactly where we're aiming. If we just aim at a larger area then if we do get a perfect shot, it's really just a matter of chance or luck and there's not as much pleasure in that. If on the other hand we are aiming at a pinpoint spot b/c we want to get a perfect shot, and we get it, the reward is greater. It still may be luck or chance but at least we can tell ourselves, that's where we were aiming!

Like this group, also from 30 yards, w/a 27# Kodiak Special Deluxe. One shot was near perfect. The rest of the group, good to OK. Was it just luck that one arrow hit near the center of a 1.2" ball? Maybe, but since I was aiming for that center I can tell myself it was skill. I like it that way better!

Vitals aren't perfect circles to draw a perfect circle in a deer size critter it grapefruit size not basketball not even close to a basketball.

Renewed Archer, that group is MOA of a vital shot on most big game animals!

I just like to watch my Magnus bury deep behind the shoulders

Sure is one fine looking bow Renewed Archer and some good 30yd shooting too.

Great looking bow, Renewed Archer.

While we don't all have the innate skills, time or coaching to become world class, a willingness to learn and dedicated practice over time can take a person from below average to an above average shooter, IMO. Happy shooting and happy hunting to you, deerhunt51.

Contents for: The Witchery of Archery, by Maurice Thompson, 1879. https://www.archerylibrary.com/books/witchery/ Contents for: The Witchery of Archery, by Maurice Thompson, 1879.

6 inch groups at 35 is outstanding, up hill downhill, all ways, that will get you in the game

This is for those who like that Kodiak Special Deluxe. Another view showing how beautiful it is. Enjoy!

Shawn that grouping is doable if you shoot just that distance enough time and for a #30 bow it looks more like point on shooting than instinctive shooting. You need good form though.

I tried instinctive for awhile....

There were days when it was absolute magic how good I could shoot....then others when I was atrocious.

For some reason the bad days were on critical shots on game...and in tourneys.

Since I started gapping and shooting fixed crawl I got the best of both worlds; consistency and accuracy...but the biggest deal was when I made a bad shot....I had a way to correct it....not just keep shooting until the force was with me.

Draven, that was at some new bales I set up, 33 yards, up a pretty steep hill. First time shooting that bow there. But it won't be the last! I moved the bales so I could shoot near by dog while he's in his pen. We both like it!

I do instinctive shooting. Meaning, I look at where I want the arrow to go.

You don't have to convince me, I said is very doable. 9" circle at 30 yards more or less sounds right for a good archer and it doesn't matter the aiming system. Worry about the ones that want to see you to believe you.

Shooting for a hunt is easier than shooting for a 3d.. My first 5 or six shits on a three days are always good, after that kind have to work for it...

Shooting for a hunt is easier than shooting for a 3d.. My first 5 or six shits on a three days are always good, after that kind have to work for it...when your hunting, just go for the boiler room, that's large.

Get Longbow some TP fast!

I sure get the comment "I would have to see it done. Cool thing is I shot a 252 at 300 spot league tonight, best to date. Mater of public record. I also shot clean Monday night 3D league, second week in a row, 64 animals in two weeks, most 25-35 yards zero misses. Also public record. Raccoon head 31 yards was one of the 3D targets, I didn't miss. I know it sounds like bragging, thing is I am shooting better then ever and am excited and just want to tell fellow archers. It also may inspire someone just starting out to surpass this Old Guy and get on here and tell us about it.

4" group at 39 yards would be mighty impressive even for him." Would not be a given at TWENTY YARDS for the top IBO trad. champions using 70" tournament bows.

Have not seen any of your scorecards or shooting prowess at the nationals or Lancasters David A?

Why would any of us worry about that?

Archery is a fun thing, shoot how you want!

Oh my God flash, that is so funny!!!! Where is that auto correct when you need it LOL!!!!

Why would you want to give someone Target Panic? What did he do to you?

;^)

Good point Shawn. On the internet there are all kinds of phenomenal shots. In point of fact I have never seen one around here. I NEVER exaggerate my shooting ability.

Accuracy, even "Instinctive Accuracy" is built on a platform, and the more "solid" that platform is, "the more accurate" you will be.

Rick

Shawn and Bob's observations are consistent with what I've seen.

Well, I’ll tell ya this much....

After getting to where I was feeling pretty darn good about myself in the back yard (where 50 FEET) is about all I can get.... I was at the same shoot that Shawn attended, and it was pretty rough on the old bubble....

I made some good shots and I made a number that were downright laughable... but that happens when you’re tossing bombs. Good news for me was that I had a fair number of long shots that were right down the line, and not too many disasters from what I would consider “hunting range”.

Better news is that the club is going to leave mcgroundstalker’s Trad-shoot Challenge shots in place through the open shoot at the end of the month, and the plan is to do it again in September or so.

4”@40 yards - consistently - is impressive for shooting with fingers and sights. Maybe Limbwalker will chime in, but if I could shoot that well with an Olympic style rig, I might go so far as to try out for a team.

Rick is 100% correct, at league Tue. I hit my form perfect three times on one end, result was three inside X's no lines cut. Too bad I had two 4's as a result of bad form.

I was much better when younger and with perfect eyesight. I shot instinctive and was pretty damn good actually. I would shoot like this 3-4 nights a week at my buddies archery range (Lost Mine Archery in Sumter SC) both inside and outside and once a week we would have a little competition between whomever was there but usually just me and Jack Davis (owner)...moving targets, strange shooting positions for your body, extremely small targets, etc. I was able back then to routinely hit the staples shining in cardboard backstop at 20-25 yds or be within 1/8 of an inch....shooting my 60# Jeffery Royal Hunter with fir shafts. I was using the Asbell style of shooting where you draw with a push pull..while focusing on target and releasing as soon as you hit anchor point. As my eyes deteriorated from working on computers and age...my accuracy suffered. I cant do that now even at 12 yards hahaha.

keep em sharp,

ron herman

I practice and try to improve, thats the best I can do,,I enjoy shooting,,its a way of life for me,,I try to improve as a person too,, long way from perfection on both counts, ,but still trying,,:)

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