I know, I know, broadheads have been discussed at length for decades. I've looked through past topics. I'm about ready to purchase some heads, and I almost have my mind made up, but want to put some more thought in to it. I am thinking about going with a 160 grain ACE standard with a 75 adapter for a total of 235 grains. (deer bow shoots 250s, elk bow shoots well with 225, so i think i can split the difference and use them for both) There are just so many broadheads out there that I don't want to miss one. I was always thinking about shooting 2 blades, but don't want to rule out a 3 blade. And I see some broadheads are extremely wide, while some are long and skinny, shoot for the middle of the two and call it good? ( i won't be spending 100$ on broadheads, I like the idea of spending 40 or less for a package of 6)

Here are my setups: Darton Valiant SL 44@28" ICS bowhunter 500. 250 up front for a total of 515 grains.

Shakespeare Necedeh 55@28" Easton Axis 400. 225 up front for about 600 total grains.

Hard to beat the proven design, construction, and economy of Ace heads.

Sounds like you have a good plan in place.

I don't know why you would think you needed a different setup for deer and elk to begin with? or for that matter why would you need 200 grains up front.

Bob

that ace will be tough to beat for all the reasons you already stated.

Different strokes for different folks Bob. I like how they shoot with 200-250 up front, but that’s just what I like. If you like lighter weight up front, that’s fine. I have found what works good for me and it’s what I’m shooting, I’m not changing a thing.

Well, you will likely change your mind on broadheads if someone convinces you to change, so it seems you aren't 100% locked in. Anyway, although I'm not a heavy front end guy, I would second the Ace 160 grain. You won't find a head that is easier to sharpen and stays sharp in the quiver. It's tough, and reasonable in price. A win-win for you.

I’m not quite locked in on broadhead choice, that is correct. I keep coming back to ACE though, but my mind can always be swayed. I’m a lifelong Magnus guy, I just wish they still made glue ons.

I forgot the original question..."what to avoid in broadheads?"

Hype. Ignore hype. A broadhead does one thing...it cuts. The design is important too to an extent, it needs to penetrate. But staying under $40.00 you can do with 6 Ace broadheads, that have been around longer than anyone here has been alive. Well, 99% of everyone here, myself included. And, the best indicator of future performance, is past performance.

Read of Glenn St.Charles elk hunt in 1952 using Ace 160 grain heads.

"what to avoid in broadheads?"

Simple.....one's that have moving parts and/or plastic.

Like 80 percent of the fishing lures on the market, they are only there to catch fishermen, not fish. There are so many heads that are "new and improved" out there and they don't do much different than the old ones that are still going strong. If they are a good design, they are very expensive. I like the Ace heads a lot and I also shoot the 160's. Like George said, they are easy to sharpen, stay sharp, tough and inexpensive too. What's not to like?

hard to beat a hair popping shaving sharp 160 grain ACE

Most screw in heads aren't totally machined. The adaptor is just glued in at the factory. Haven't kept up on Magnus broad heads, but if they're still being made (in screw-in), why not just buy some screw-ins and remove the adaptors?

Zwickey Delta is also a very good two-blade head, but doesn't come in 160 grains. The 2-blade STOS comes in 160 grains. It, too, is a very good head. Of course, there are a number of good single bevel heads in the 160 grain range as well, Grizzly and Abowyer, for example. Hard to beat a Woodsman in a 3-blade head, though it doesn't come in 160 grains.

Of course, the ACE 160 grain is also a good head. Lots of good heads available. If you want to be sure you don't omit any possibilities, look at the 3-Rivers or Lancaster Archery website. They have most of what's available. There. Now you have the dissonance of too many options. Good luck.

Avoid extremes, nobody has reinvented the wheel, there are radial tires now rather than round rock, but the basic concept remains, same with what you put on the end of your arrow. Common sense, although not nearly as common these days, will get you there.

“Of course, there are a number of good single bevel heads in the 160 grain range as well....”

I think I read somewhere that you can order Ace heads ground to a single-bevel. Just in case that’s your preference.

well for 40 bucks for 6 you are pretty much limited to ace or zwickey, I am sure there are others that fall in that price range but i cant think of any right now.

if you spend a little more you can get into the grizzly broadheads which are my favorites, I like their single bevels but their double bevels are great too.

40 was just what popped in my head first. I don’t mind spending a little more if I am getting 6 broadheads. But I’m not spending 40-50-70-100 for a 3 pack.

Any broadhead that doesn't fly like a lazer pointer from your bow, or that you can't sharpen

Other than that it really doesn't make that much difference for North American game.

ACE or ZWICKEY ??? Don't think that You can go wrong with either?

2x what BATMAN and others have said.

I have slews of broadheads as bad or worse than bows and arrows many and I experiment on ANIMALS I KILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When you arrow amounts of animals and turkeys you can do that. What I found out for myself nothing mattered other than they are sharp and if they go where you want to place the shot then they do the job no matter what I am using or testing out.

I can't say go where I look because sometimes I am not seeing all that well and because of the many variables the BH / arrow could be going where I look but not necessarily was I looking at the right spot or didn't burn an entrance hole in the right spot.

Now since I don't have bundles of arrow aiming points with the knocks its one an done. I got to Lay it on him.LOL

I thought because I was wearing my Hecs it was a slam donkey like the guys who believe Hecs fairy tails.LOL

You know like Holly woodi has its action heroes well Hecs at Wilderness high fence coral has Willow woodis and photo action shops.LOL

I have been really liking the sharks they tommyhawk an animal.

2 blades don't favor 3 blades.

Ace are good heads. I would also consider a Zwickey Delta. Proven, reliable head. Use different screw-in adapters and you can modify what grain you want them in. I've got one Delta head I've had to dig out of so many trees, stumps and rock-hard white oak boards that it would have destroyed a lot of heads. It's still perfectly straight and flies true. I purposely shot it into one seasoned sawmill white oak board against another popular head. The Delta out penetrated the other, and came out still perfectly straight. The other knurled the tip and didn't penetrate half as much as the Delta.

I would venture to say that I purchased more broadhead than anyone here. I'm embarrassed to say it's more than the number of free throws Dr. Tom Amberry shot in a row. Actually, probably 500 more than Amberry sank. It's a lot

BUT the list of broadheads NOT to shoot would probably be as long as the number of free throws Amberry sank.

How's that for a convoluted answer?

AND at the top of that list is a Rage. Bridger and I've been on 22 Rage broadhead trails, found 5 deer.

Bowmania

Ace 160 Grain Glue-on pack of 6 are for sale on eBay for $32 plus $3 shipping.

Bowmania - I am surprised to see you write that critique of the Rage. I would not use any expandable, Rage included with my trad gear. However, I have a lot of friends who are compound shooters that use the Rage head. With a good shot, those things are extremely deadly as their cutting diameter is huge. I have helped on excellent Rage blood trails and short recoveries. Did you use them with recurve or longbow? Was shot placement questionable?

Forget the Ace 160s. In fact, forget Ace all together. Buy Grizzlies for the 45 pound bow. You won't regret it. Better penetration than the Ace and severe damage with the slight rotation on the hit. Strongest tip too. Buy Grizzlies or standard 125 grain Woodsmans for the 55 pound bow. Strengthen the tip on the Woodsman by making it a pyramid point.

Joe

Particularly at that weight, I would go for Grizz 160, don't see anything about ACE that is better, though price may be. There is an argument single bevels are more effective, actually 2. No argument double bevels are better; more streamlined; winner first Natal study indicating it is death on X-large game; 3-1 ish for better penetration. Very efficient construction that puts the toughness where it is needed. Used to be cheap (disadvantage currently).

I gather you can't go wrong with an ACE head, though in that format I prefer the Zwickey Delta. I bought a lot of Ribtek heads, they aren't better, they are just a head that will get the job done, and were cheap when I bought them. Depends what feature one wants to optimize. One notable feature is that one has used a particular head for a long time and has confidence in it, or sees no need to mess around with a change. But that isn't technical superiority, just familiarity.

3 blades are not a great idea and they really need to embrace single bevels, as it is a massive game changer on 3 blades. Until more are available in single bevels, I wouldn't even consider them. Particularly not at low draw weights.

"Forget the Ace 160s. In fact, forget Ace all together. Buy Grizzlies for the 45 pound bow. You won't regret it. Better penetration than the Ace and severe damage with the slight rotation on the hit. Strongest tip too. Buy Grizzlies or standard 125 grain Woodsmans for the 55 pound bow. Strengthen the tip on the Woodsman by making it a pyramid point. Joe"

Good grief... Another example of Frisky's inexperience. You just can't beat the Ace broadhead in any weight, the 160gr Standard is an excellent choice.

Budly, I would probably bet that Bowmania has never used a Rage broadhead, what he said was that he and Bridger had been on 22 Rage blood trails and recovered 5. Bridger is his dog that he uses to trail, and I expect that he s speaking of other people's trails and their bad experiences.

Todd,,,,,,, In the bear and deer camps I worked for, in northern Wis and the UP, the expandables were not allowed at all, no exceptions,,,,,,,, The outfitter said that before you booked, no exceptions, and he did not care who you were,,,,,,,

Rage was one of the worst heads, but best marketing head I have seen....................

What to avoid, well to me its pretty simple,,,,,, do they fly well and can you sharpen them well,,,,,, not much to say after that

Ace, VPA are great heads.

I'm with Ron on the Grizzlys . Single bevel 2 blade is a great head , 6 for a little over $40.00.

AVOID is the thread. O.K. 1.Thin soft steel 2.expanding 3.heads that don't start cutting at the point. 4. Serrations 5.vents (unless you take care they don't whistle) even then it is a weak point. >>>----> Ken

AVOID a broadhead you can't afford to loose (how will you ever test it?), a broadhead you can't sharpen(duh), a broadhead that doesn't fly where your feildpoints fly. In your budget range I can vouch for the old woodsman.

I didn't say what to avoid because it would make some here jumping mad. Its a matter of opinion somewhat anyhow.

I'll say this...replaceable blade head with less than .15 thick blades. Cheap Kolpin heads. Any head with a plastic ferrule.

Just listen to me, a voice of experience, and you'll be fine.

Joe

Frisky's hat

Here we have a case where another pseudo legend shoots off his mouth, jealous because he doesn't have a genuine, Box Call made, Predator camo hat!

Joe

Joe saying,..."If you believe that one I've got another make believe story to tell you"...

Thanks for all the info guys. Ace is still at the top of my list, but I do like the looks of those grizzlies.

This topic has really taken an ugly downward spiral!!!!

Thanks David!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You've seen it on videos lots, a Rage on a deer with 6-8 inches of penetration. The deer goes 50 to 100 yard and falls over. That, my friends is good results, not good performance. Even if you take a completely broadside shot and the that type of penetration it's bad. Now, add in 1/4ing shots and blades not opening.

I think they should be illegal, Bridger on the other hand would love to have every one shoot them.

This was not a Rage, nor me, but Bridger's best find. 160 and an inch or 2.

Bowmania

I love the advice and the bonus entertainment is priceless! TLM

Is it really any more complicated than the following: 1. Make a good shot, 2. use sharp broad heads, 3. mechanical heads are for compounds, 4. cut-on-contact heads are for any bow, and 5. chisel-point non-mechanicals can go either way as well. There is a reason why "make a good shot" is number 1. That will cover for the wrong head more than the right head will cover for a bad shot. Don't expect a great head to correct a poor shot.

Feel free to flame on me. I won't flame back. I like to hear counterpoints. I might learn something!

Dave & Bowmania - thanks for letting me know Bridger is a tracker.

Buddy, it really is not any more complicated than that. I’ve shot a few deer with mechanicals in my compound days and can say that I never once had an issue and had some great blood trails. With that being said, I was a firm believer in sharp COC broadheads. I used Magnus buzzcuts and stingers for several years and took many deer an a couple elk with them. I would continue shooting them if they made something over 150 grain. Broadhead discussion is basically like a “Ford v. Chevy” argument, but sometimes it’s nice to hear the argument before deciding. Sharp broadheads put through the lungs is what it really comes down to.

SDA - Agreed. My personal choices are; 1) Woodsman 3-blade COC for my recurve, and 2) Zwickey 2-blade COC for my longbow. I have taken many deer with both heads out of both bows. I love both bows and both heads and finally decided to segregate them by bow and not forget that arrow placement and sharpness are key. My gear is great, so my successes and failures which both occur are all on me.

I don't know why some people get their shorts in a knot when someone asks for an opinion and others give it. Doesn't matter how they give it, doesn't matter what it is,if it is their opinion and that's what the original poster asked for then so be it, whether you agree with it or not. Doesn't matter if it was discussed a bazillion times something new may emerge for someone. The original post asked what he should avoid when it comes to broad heads....like it or not here's my 2 cents !!!! Avoid any open on impact broad heads like the plague. Avoid any broad heads with plastic components, Avoid any broad heads that are ridiculously priced.Avoid any 3 or 4 blade broad heads also like the plague.Avoid any single bevel broad heads,,,they are just a gimmick.In fact Kyle, my advice for what it is worth is to avoid any broad head that is not a Bear Greenie. They Fly true, are easy to sharpen, have passed the test of time and you don't have to mortgage the house to get some. I won't use anything else but there are a lot of opinions out there. Weigh and consider them all.....Then get the Bear Greenies !!!!!! :) :) Shoot straight and as always...be safe !!!! "Whitie"

Not for nothin’....

Those who have an easier time sharpening a straight blade (vs. curved) might want to check out the 175 grain Ace Express. I think Larry has been using those for close to 60 years now, and if there were any liabilities for those, he would have found them by now....

Myself, I’m intrigued by the Standard in heavier weights because I’m told they increase the weight by using beefier steel in the main blade, so if you want strength, there’s that.

The Super Express is a flying tomahawk, but I’m not sure what I’d do with that kind of weight up front. Might have to switch to stiff, flyweight carbons and experiment with the high FOC option...

Oddly enough, I think I would sooner use the Super Express on deer and stick to Standards for Elk, just for the penetration....

If I were you I'd avoid spending more than you have to. I'm not cheap by any means, I want good equipment that is both functional and practical.

I have a good friend that is an avid flyfisherman, he must have thousands invested in gear rods ect...I enjoy it as well,but I'm content to use a Cortland fairplay or pflueger. I seem to reel in as many or more than he does with his sage. matter of fact I've noticed a lot of farm boys with a pair of tingley' and a can of worms often out fish him.

Same goes with bows, arrows, and broadheads. I see guy's going all out in the spending. But behind the scenes are guy using practical functional equipment that don't break the bank.....and they out shoot, out hunt the big spenders time and time again.

Ace or Zwickey....and learn to get them shaving sharp.

If you ain't killing' 'em with a 190 Ribtec, you ain't killing' 'em.

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