I was watching a video of German archers shooting a 3D event in Germany and noticed how good there form was both men and women. Compared to the 3D shoots I've been to here in the states I think they must practice much more.

It's not just a German thing it's a European thing, archers aren't distracted by Bowhunting (10 countries allow it in Europe) it's very competitive across borders, so Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Italy the compete in each other tourneys.

I have the same thing, Finland, Russia, Latvia and Lithuania

check out a woman in spain named angela , she has alot of videos on youtube

There have been 2 separate Germans in the archery shop in the last 3 days, Must be up at Tahoe for a conference or something. Both were into trad bows

The level of expertise is not just area specific, you just need to attend more shoots over here and you will see some high-level shooters. That said, as mentioned, they aren't distracted by a hunting faction that thinks you only need to be pie plate accurte, I also think they still shoot field and target archery as well, where you need to be on your game when competing at ranges out to 80 yards. We used to be more that way here.

Shooting a bow is fun, but I can’t imagine not being able to hunt with it.

MP

So people that hunt do t have to have good form ?

JP you just blew an ember into flame. The first indoor competition I was this year we were 11 trads from 80 archers. All had good form and most of them are hunters. Generalization is not the smartest thing to do. On both sides. You can miss a target with good form as you can nailed it with a not so formal one.

When hunting seldom does a live animal give you the option to get set up with perfect form, stand still as if a target, and let you execute the perfect shot sequence. Hunters have to shoot from uneven ground, standing, sitting, twisting, turning, etc, or never get a shot. A good archer can use perfect form on target/3D course, and be flexible for hunting. Many hunters just enjoy shooting targets as practice for hunting, but not desire to be a national champion in the completion world. It boils done to the end desire in my mind.

What Draven said. And, if you judge all American archers by the ones you see at a few 3D shoots, you pretty much are pulling a CNN. Tiny samples from a total of 21 million or so archers in the US, isn't exactly telling.

I'll bet maybe 5% of those 21 million can keep six arrows on a pie plate at 25 yards, first six shots of the day.

I believe the German archers referenced probable have benefited from the not be9ng exposed to the grip it and rip it a Hunter has to do it this way mentality that effects so many single string archers here in the states

If you travel to the larger Trad 3 d shoots it’s readily apparent that many should not be hunting with their equipment

I’m primarily a bow hunter and while I agree shots can be more compromised due to positions etc executing a good shot is all the same wether it’s a target or a deer .....it’s all a target

I'm sixty three and half German. A very common old school German trait on the German side of my ancestors that were builders, was meticulous attention to detail, and building houses with an eye to solid and long lasting construction. There was little tolerance for BS and slop. My how times have changed.

"It's all good." "It is what it is." "You can't see it from my house." "Good enough for gov't work." That thinking didn't originate in Germany I assure you.

I visit a couple Euro sites. First impression, they are more serious about their archery and how well they shoot. Of course when making videos or such you put your best foot forward. That still does not distract from watching. If I recall correctly it is a privilege to hunt in some of those, if not all of those countries, not a “right”. Also before receiving a hunting license not only do they have to pass written test but a proficiency test as well. We here in US tend to balk at that idea. We also need to face the fact Archery has more history in Europe. We are a nation of rifleman. We didn’t land with bows and arrows like some would like to romanticize about. It was muskets and swords, and pikes.

I agree with JParanee that many bow hunters should not be hunting with their equipment, but back to the OP's point concerning form. There is a big difference between hunting form and target form. I think good target form breeds better hunting accuracy with out a doubt,therefore I try to practice good form while 3D shooting, but rarely can I execute target form while hunting. Personally I am semi-competetive at 3D, so try to practice good form while doing so, but my true love is hunting, and it is a good hole different game. As said above, go to some big national and world shoots and watch the guys that are serious target shooters and they have good form, even in the USA.

Bentstick54, we are all different it's true, but my target form serves me well in the hunting woods. You may have an occasion to alter a shot, but never alter form...it somehow works out that the mind/body connection works just fine in the deer woods. There have been few deer that I've taken that I had to hurry a shot on, but then the so-called target form came right around. Form is form, and when used properly in practice, will automatically recall when needed.

Yeah, my Mom's ancestors came from the Palatinate area of Germany, so I'm both fussy and hardheaded. My daughter even found old letters via genealogy search where ones who already had came over were advising ones who were getting ready to sail, where to hide things in their luggage trunks so it wouldn't get stolen when they arrived.

Bentstick no clear shooting lanes here in European Archery, IFAA Field yes but not 3D. Some of the World/Euro 3D's have been Held in the Alps at +2000m, If you shooting isn't spectacular at least the views are. Lol

Don’t get me wrong guys. I agree 100%. Good form is critical to good shooting. I try to have as good of form as I can. I am just trying to say there can be a difference in good target form, and converting to hunting situations, but they go hand in hand. Zetabow, yes many of the 3D shoots that I attend are set up to simulate hunting situations also, through brush, up/ down hill etc. Form adjustment needs to be made for many of the shots. The better form you have the better it carries over in any given situation.

Wonder why no bow-hunting in a lot of European countries? Did the PETA people get elected??

I think they saved it for the wealthy.

Most of the animals are under protection and the ones that are not under protection are not in enough number for two types of hunters. And most of the time the hunts are on private land where the owner did the work to repopulate the woods.

IMO the root of modern 'no hunting' in Europe is largely due to extreme density of population. Germany is roughly the size of Colorado, the state I reside in. The population of Germany is -17X- that of this state. Or, a population roughly 2X the state of CA. CA is quite a bit bigger in area than CO. Imagine living in CA with twice the population. You think they have problems now? Double the population and see what you get. India and China are each well over -a billion- in population.

Batman

A lot of countries are high density with little variety of Game and very expensive to Bowhunter, nearly all countries require tough test.

Where I live Bowhunting is recent and still only smaller game at this point but quite lucky to have good variety of Game, Deer, Wolves, Bear, Beaver and Boar

I was stationed in Frankfurt West Germany back in the 1980s with the U.S. Army. I belonged to the Rhein Main Bowmen. There was quite a few archers back then both Americans and German Nationals. Back then there was no bowhunting. Even to hunt with a gun back then you had to take numerous classes, a test, and a Jägermeister ( Hunt Master ) had to be present.

I attend the Curtis Salta weekend shoot at Menkenhof. We leave and get the ferry from Dover to Dunkirk .. drive to north of Amsterdam to pick up our friend and then off to Menkenhof. We leave Wednesday .. arrive Friday .. then

3 Days of absolutley wonderful field, roving and flight shooting ... without a doubt the highlight of my archery year

As a German the US views and myths about Germany are amusing to me. Target archery and hunting archery are two different things but have common elements. 3D is supposed to be training for hunting,but the US scoring system has only training value for sight shooters or system shooters. If the hunting archers stop to attend the local club and 3D shoots,the opportunity for the target shooter to compete goes down the drain. Look at the IBO Trad World: Was held at one of the nicest and best organized clubs in TN close to major airport and hotels and attendance was about 250+ competitors. Far more shooters shot the hunters challenge course. The TN Classic has more shooters than a large association championship event.

It will be interesting to see attendance levels in the remote resort they put it in this year. Target archery competitors among themselves.Few hunting archers will drive far to a remote place to shoot foam... At 3D shoots I will pay,shoot,have fun,but do NOT keep score. Points are of no importance to me. To some it is important and I let them compete among themselves.

Box Call, you look like the Jägermeister.

I have watched quite a few videos of people shooting stick bows in Germany. I see them shooting good like some here do, I see them having fun just like we do.

I bet if they hunted they could adapt but being a good shot on targets helps. We can and should learn from each other. Watching their videos they shore enjoy their Archery.

A stickbow is easily WAY more accurate than the atlatl, rock, spear and sling.

Being a good shot on target competitions won't make you a good hunter.Can it help? Sometimes. But not always. Target shooting is not hunting and too many target shooters have issues to see the differences. The big difference is,that at a 3D shoot you have to shoot from the stake, a shooting position chosen by someone else, while when you hunt, you choose your shots based on your ability and decide to shoot or not to shoot. Also, the timing of a shot is different. If I decide to shoot during hunting, the arrow needs to fly when the shot presents itself. Not when my stand, my form etc. is all nice and lined up etc. A hunting buddy of mine is a very good shot on targets, but not a good shot on game. Missed so many shots on elk we still don't know what is going on with him in front of elk. As most archers in the US are into archery because of hunting, it makes much more sense to orient the competitions/scoring systems on the training needs of the hunters instead on the needs of the specialized target archers. In the long run, the IBO/ASA/NFAA will also just accomodate the modern archery disciplines while the traditional only organizations will cater to the traditional shooters oriented towards hunting because of the numbers. And the competition oriented target archers have to realize, that the guys who "should" not go hunting in their opinion may be at that shoot to try out a new bow/arrows or something and not to compete with their best equipment possible. I do that quite often. Try out something at a 3D shoot and it would look awkward to an outsider,looking at all the misses etc. A lot of the old guard shooters in Germany do no longer attend 3D shoots, as the attitude and behavior of the newer shooters does often not mix well with the attitude of the experienced shooters.

I've probably shot more animals/species than most on here. I also have a target form. I have NEVER once had to twist or stand or contort my body in a position that my 'target form' couldn't adapt to. THat includes 22 animals that were running, a position that most target shooters don't practice.

Once your shoulders/arms know the proper alignment it's just part of your shot, no matter what's happening below your shoulders.

I get angry every time I see one of our 17.3 accuracy guys shooting next to a compounder. Pretty sure he's NOT thinking, "I gotta get me some of that". In my opinion THAT's what stalling growth in our sport.

Bowmania

Well said Bowmania.

As a tourney archer I pick the most stable shooting positions I can get but Ive trained to shoot in every possible position including laying flat on my back, I may never need to do it in a tourney but If that day comes I know I can make good shots in any position.

Well said Bowmania

A few patches from when I was stationed in West Germany and shot with the Rhein Main Bowmen when I had some down time back in the 1980s.

Well, my dad was Greek. He was a meticulous craftsman. Talk about generalizing.

Do you have to be German to be a good craftsman? No hope for me. Ma was Greek too.

I do make bows though which aren't too bad.

Did you mean all Germans are good craftsman. Are there some who are not?

Just bustin' y'al!

Jawge

There are a few European youtube channels that I tend to watch and other facebook pages. Their shooting does seem to be a bit better than the US Trad channels I also watch.

One thing I notice, they all seem to shoot split finger with standard anchors. It's not what I'd call a 'target' archery form. In fact it seems more to mimic the likes of Fred Bear, Howard Hill, etc. Where as lately, in the US, I'm seeing more guys shooting 3-under, fixed crawl, string walking, psycho triggers, etc. In my opinion, and it's just an opinion, but I'd say the Europeans are practicing a much more PURE form of archery.

Wolfie Hughes - Youtube Henry Bodnik - Facebook Merlin Archery - Youtube Grizzly Jim/Archery Adventures - Youtube Silver Archery - Youtube

I don't know about the 'nu skool' Germany but the old Germany has a very long history of quality craftsmanship. I'd say that trait has been around sufficiently long it just might be embedded in the genes, like a house cat scratching around the food bowl after it has eaten, or a domestic dog spinning around before it lays down. lol I know a few Germans and to a person they all value craftsmanship. I beez onea dem maself. I is jus a little slice a heaven. lol

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