Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


weighted inserts vs point weight

Messages posted to thread:
rraming 13-Mar-18
George D. Stout 13-Mar-18
2 bears 13-Mar-18
rraming 13-Mar-18
Rick Barbee 13-Mar-18
oldnewby 13-Mar-18
Clydebow 13-Mar-18
9/10 Broke 13-Mar-18
Dan In MI 13-Mar-18
fdp 13-Mar-18
charley 13-Mar-18
rraming 13-Mar-18
GF 13-Mar-18
Mpdh 13-Mar-18
9/10 Broke 13-Mar-18
bigdog21 13-Mar-18
GF 13-Mar-18
2 bears 13-Mar-18
rattlesnake 13-Mar-18
sqrlgtr 14-Mar-18
9/10 Broke 14-Mar-18
kginrick 14-Mar-18
tradmt 14-Mar-18
rraming 14-Mar-18
rattlesnake 14-Mar-18
Bowmania 14-Mar-18
kginrick 14-Mar-18
sqrlgtr 14-Mar-18
fdp 14-Mar-18
rattlesnake 14-Mar-18
From: rraming Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Mar-18




So I had nothing to do so I starting thinking.

I use 50 grain Gold Tips weight (fact weight thingy) in my CE150's with 125 grain tip and they bareshaft perfect. I figured I could switch to 175 grain points and 175 grain Woodsman Heads and all would be the same.

NOT - the weight moving forward made them act weaker and now it wont work. No biggie, just going back to what I had

Also - the Woodsman 175 heads make noise in flight which bothers me as well.

Guess maybe I knew this at one time or another and just forgot.

No room to trim off shafts at all so that is not an option.

Hope this helps someone

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Mar-18




The weight all at the tip will indeed soften spine.

Sand the leading edge of the slots on the Wensel heads. It's likely that the noise is coming from there if there is any build up of paint or weld residue. Just a thought.

From: 2 bears
Date: 13-Mar-18




The farther the weight is moved forward the more it increases FOC. I wouldn't have thought it would be enough to throw you out of tune unless you were right on the edge. Read tune for the middle. Good luck. >>>-----> Ken

From: rraming Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Mar-18




Good idea, will try that, I really thought I was on to saving some money - ha!

From: Rick Barbee
Date: 13-Mar-18




You have to keep in mind also, that the internal weights act as an internal footing.

The longer they are/deeper into the shaft they extend, the more they will stiffen the dynamic spine,

so

their length offsets the additional weight "some" as apposed to just adding weight at the front.

Rick

From: oldnewby
Date: 13-Mar-18




So if we are planing, say, 200 grains up front, but part of that weight is a 50 grain brass insert (matched with a 150 grain broadhead), should we assume that the arrow will be stiffer than we would otherwise be expecting, because 50 grains of that tip weight is farther back on the arrow, and because the brass insert acts as a footing to stiffen spine? And would that be enough to call for a slightly longer shaft length than we would otherwise have chosen?

From: Clydebow
Date: 13-Mar-18




You didn't say if the 50 grain weight was still being used with the 175 grain points?

If it is you went from 175 to 225 up front.

From: 9/10 Broke Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Mar-18




Funny that this is brought up today. I have been playing with tuning and point weight with a new bow. My best flight was with a 175 grain field point on a full length 600 Entrada. I only had one 175 grain point so I added insert weights to the others and they seemed to fly pretty well but my groups got a bit wider. After seeing this thread I put my 175 grain point on a bare shaft and proceeded to shoot with accuracy the likes of I haven’t in quite some time. The bare shaft flew great and impacted perfectly straight and shot 2” groups at 20 yards. I’ll be removing those insert weights and buying some 175 grain points.

From: Dan In MI
Date: 13-Mar-18




Another consideration with weight inside the shaft. If your inside weight is past (towards the shooter) the contact point on your riser then it changes your front bending node at launch making your arrow effectively shorter.

From: fdp
Date: 13-Mar-18




I literally hate weighted inserts.

From: charley
Date: 13-Mar-18




Internal weights are for folks that don't want to shoot glue on heads. Loaded adapters are more versital. Don't worry about that Woodsman whistling, killed a bunch of deer with Woodsman heads, and they never heard it coming.

From: rraming Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Mar-18




Clyde, I removed the inserts before

Oldnewby, correct, I could have trimmed from my shaft but had no shaft left to trim

Broke, yep, that's why I posted this, best to leave things the same once tuned

My wood shafts haven't changed, ha!

From: GF
Date: 13-Mar-18

GF's embedded Photo



175 on a full-length Entrada 600????

What’s the poundage for that?

Rather than make a claim based purely on “IIRC” data...

I have exactly one of those in the barrel; 28” VON-BOP with 125 up front, and it thinks it’s a 1916. Grabbed a pair of 28” 1916s and the Entrada and the #55@28” RER.

The 600 has a red nock.

From: Mpdh
Date: 13-Mar-18




Oldnewby, the 50 gn brass are almost the same length as the standard aluminum inserts, so they shouldn’t lengthen the stiffness of the tip. When you use the 75 gn or 100 gn they are longer. 50 gn aluminum inserts are also a lot longer.

MP

From: 9/10 Broke Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Mar-18




40 pounds

From: bigdog21
Date: 13-Mar-18




Come on. add wt to Nock end with wt or lighted nocks. Will stiffen arrow.

From: GF
Date: 13-Mar-18




That’s amazing, Ronnie... Cut well proud of center??

From: 2 bears
Date: 13-Mar-18




Weight up front is easier to change and easier to keep track of, if you have a lot of different arrows. I don't like weight hidden inside. Really liking the 600 Entradas so far.>>>----> Ken

From: rattlesnake
Date: 13-Mar-18




I'm all messed up now, just picked up a bunch of gt weights and was about to start cutting and making arrows.?...I better slow my roll..?

From: sqrlgtr
Date: 14-Mar-18




Rattlesnake,I use the gt weights and never had a problem with them.Sure its not like hanging weight on the very tip but you can still make it work/tune your arrow......

From: 9/10 Broke Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Mar-18




Matt I am no tuning expert by no means but they did fly great. Day to day shooting accuracy comes and goes for me. Some days are diamonds and some are stones but I am pretty excited about this. I have no idea what IIRC is and I believe that a full length Entrada is a far cry different than a 28” Entrada. Like I say though I am no tuning expert.

From: kginrick
Date: 14-Mar-18




50 grain insert plus 125 grain point is not equal to 175 grain point plus 13 grain insert . Try a few wraps of electrical tape on nock end of arrrow and see if your tune comes back in line . If it does go with heavier nocks or bigger fletch

From: tradmt
Date: 14-Mar-18




You could add an arrow wrap if you don't have already or, thicken the side plate a bit.

I much prefer to use point adapters I can glue heads on, this way the arrows are basically 'stock' and I'm not having to remove weighted inserts to manipulate weight/spine.

From: rraming Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Mar-18




Kginrick - the "normal inserts" always stay in the GT Fact system screws into the back of the insert with a long allen wrench tool - it's high tech stuff - ha

I could also drop my brace height and get it to work - add more silencers to the string to slow it down - I understand option to make it work, was just interesting that it all changed. Have heard the question before just never saw the answer

:)

From: rattlesnake
Date: 14-Mar-18




I got some gt 500's I'm going to just do 100gn insert, I also have 600's I'm going to add 50gn weight to alum insert back...both arrows cut too 28.5".... Then play with point weight for my bows from 45#-50# @ 27"....that's my math in my head....should be just about perfect...going to just make up those two singles and try them......and go from there...looking for hunting weight arrow with proper spined and good flyte...with broadheads of course...any input welcome.?

From: Bowmania Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Mar-18




I usually tell people, not usually all the time, not to use heavy inserts. This thread is another example. If OP would have started with a regular insert, he would have ended up with a higher FOC more efficient arrow. If you're putting weight towards the end of the arrow you don't need as much.

I tried that long allen wrench system. Same thing but worse. they have a tendency to strip.

But the real problem is UNGLUEING the inserts if you have to go light.

From: kginrick
Date: 14-Mar-18




I thought you were changing inserts . Do not know the answer to your question , I will be following to see if an answer comes up

From: sqrlgtr
Date: 14-Mar-18




I've never stripped any of the weights or inserts and thats useing the aluminum inserts.I will agree on not useing the heavy inserts but the weight system works great for me....

From: fdp
Date: 14-Mar-18




Snake, 600's are 52'ish pounds. That being the case, if you want to shoot the same arrow from both bows, get some 600's, and an assortment of screw in field points. Find the combination that works well out of the 45lb. bow, and tune the 50lb. bow to shoot them.

From: rattlesnake
Date: 14-Mar-18




Thanks Frank.....yeah I'm going to make up a couple arrows and try point weights accordingly..and just fling a few shots with my bows. ....and go from there....they were flying fine with standard alum inserts full lengths...so I'm shortening them too 28.5" and adding weight too regain proper spine and parodox ...then I should have fluctuations with 100gn too say around 175gn broadheads for fine tuning to specific bows etc... I've found the 600 and 500 GT's traditional blems and regular are pretty forgiving too my weight range...I feel I will end up with a fairly med-heavy arrow for hunting..





If you have already registered, please

sign in now

For new registrations

Click Here




Visit Bowsite.com A Traditional Archery Community Become a Sponsor
Stickbow.com © 2003. By using this site you agree to our Terms and Conditions and our Privacy Policy