Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Wood arrows are hard to love...

Messages posted to thread:
Jinkster 12-Mar-18
Jinkster 12-Mar-18
Jinkster 12-Mar-18
Jinkster 12-Mar-18
Kodiaktd 12-Mar-18
GF 12-Mar-18
Jim Davis 12-Mar-18
rraming 12-Mar-18
Jinkster 12-Mar-18
SB 12-Mar-18
bluesman 12-Mar-18
bluesman 12-Mar-18
Ron LaClair 13-Mar-18
Jim Davis 13-Mar-18
2 bears 13-Mar-18
tonto59 13-Mar-18
grizz 13-Mar-18
Iwander 13-Mar-18
Iwander 13-Mar-18
Iwander 13-Mar-18
Gary Miller 13-Mar-18
Iwander 13-Mar-18
BSBD 13-Mar-18
Bob Rowlands 13-Mar-18
Jeff Durnell 13-Mar-18
arlone 13-Mar-18
Too Many Bows Bob 13-Mar-18
TrapperKayak 13-Mar-18
zonic 13-Mar-18
Mountain Man 13-Mar-18
Kodiaktd 13-Mar-18
Michael Schwister 13-Mar-18
chazz847 13-Mar-18
Dao 13-Mar-18
Snag 13-Mar-18
ny yankee 13-Mar-18
PEARL DRUMS 13-Mar-18
George D. Stout 13-Mar-18
Hal9000 13-Mar-18
Jinkster 13-Mar-18
JusPassin 13-Mar-18
Bill Rickvalsky 13-Mar-18
Kodiaktd 13-Mar-18
Grumpy 13-Mar-18
Grumpy 13-Mar-18
Gary Miller 13-Mar-18
monkeyball 13-Mar-18
reddogge 13-Mar-18
RonG 13-Mar-18
Jeff Durnell 13-Mar-18
osage 13-Mar-18
PEARL DRUMS 13-Mar-18
monkeyball 13-Mar-18
Ollie 13-Mar-18
George D. Stout 13-Mar-18
GUTPILE PA 13-Mar-18
Birdy 13-Mar-18
Jeff Durnell 13-Mar-18
Tboughty 13-Mar-18
Orion 13-Mar-18
Kodiaktd 13-Mar-18
BigOzzie 13-Mar-18
Sawtooth (Original) 13-Mar-18
Tboughty 13-Mar-18
Dan 13-Mar-18
Kodiaktd 13-Mar-18
lawdy 13-Mar-18
reddogge 13-Mar-18
Jeff Durnell 13-Mar-18
Jinkster 13-Mar-18
RonG 13-Mar-18
Jinkster 13-Mar-18
cecil 13-Mar-18
George D. Stout 13-Mar-18
George Tsoukalas 13-Mar-18
Bob Rowlands 13-Mar-18
Grim 13-Mar-18
Jinkster 13-Mar-18
Bob Rowlands 13-Mar-18
Jim Davis 13-Mar-18
Bob Rowlands 13-Mar-18
Jinkster 13-Mar-18
Renewed Archer 14-Mar-18
Gary Miller 14-Mar-18
Gary Miller 14-Mar-18
scot520 14-Mar-18
Bill Rickvalsky 14-Mar-18
Hal9000 14-Mar-18
Matt B 14-Mar-18
RymanCat 14-Mar-18
RonG 14-Mar-18
Mpdh 14-Mar-18
B arthur 14-Mar-18
osage 15-Mar-18
Carolinabob 15-Mar-18
bluesman 15-Mar-18
Jinkster 15-Mar-18
MStyles 15-Mar-18
moleman 1 15-Mar-18
2 bears 15-Mar-18
Jinkster 15-Mar-18
Tomas de Gato 16-Mar-18
Jeff Durnell 16-Mar-18
ny yankee 16-Mar-18
monkeyball 16-Mar-18
Tomas de Gato 16-Mar-18
RonG 16-Mar-18
tradmt 16-Mar-18
RonG 16-Mar-18
Jinkster 16-Mar-18
Jeff Durnell 16-Mar-18
Hal9000 16-Mar-18
newell38 16-Mar-18
tradmt 16-Mar-18
From: Jinkster
Date: 12-Mar-18

Jinkster's embedded Photo



Like beautiful women?...wood arrows have a lot of wiggle in their walk and enough available cosmetics to make the models at Revlon jealous but are also just as fragile and finicky! LOL!

Problem is?...almost anywhere ya go?...if you wanna shoot Longbow?....it's a "Wood Arrows Only" proposition and as a result of that?...try as I may...and as close as I came...(and I got pretty close)...I'm convinced there just ain't no way that any wood arrows are ever going to hang with carbons...ain't gonna happen.

Tonight I shot Carbons & Woodies back-too-back off my Hawk R/D Hybrid and while the Carbons are 29" .350 spine w/ 315gr screw-ins weighing 640grs?...the Woodies are 60# 11/32 Cedars cut 27 1/2" too B.O.P. with 160gr glue-on points weighing 505grs.

I often times hear folks speak of how much quieter wood arrows are and while my carbons are 135grs heavier than the cedars?...the shot note/volume of the carbons is 1/2 of what the cedar arrows are and?...

With the 60# 27 1/2" long Cedars we're talking an AMO deflection of what would be a .433 spine shaft while the Carbons are 29" .350 but with nearly twice the point weight yet I can actually feel that while the woodies seem noodle like on the push?...the carbons feel far more composed like they are sucking every ounce of energy out of the limbs and launching like a fletched spike.

In order to shoot these arrows back-too-back it required that after I shot the cedars?...I had to spin my top nock point down too the bottom nock point then spin the bottom nock point down for the appropriate nock space and all due too the massive 315gr point weight on the 1 1/2" longer carbons but both cedars and carbons are well tuned too this bow and here were the results of a 10yd/15yd/20yd walk-back with each...

From: Jinkster
Date: 12-Mar-18

Jinkster's embedded Photo



pretty nice grouping for split finger off a longbow right?....

From: Jinkster
Date: 12-Mar-18

Jinkster's embedded Photo



but it was the 7th arrow I shot from 20yds that made me smile...a Carbon Bare-Shaft...

From: Jinkster
Date: 12-Mar-18

Jinkster's embedded Photo



aftermath pic to give you folks and idea on arrow configs.

My point?...I don't care who got what to say....I'm shooting what I like off this Hawk and it ain't wood! LOL!

From: Kodiaktd
Date: 12-Mar-18

Kodiaktd's embedded Photo



"LOL"

From: GF
Date: 12-Mar-18




Hard to love, and they’ll break your heart, too!

LOL... Not buying it. I love shooting woodies. They seem to outlast aluminum for me (in a stumping environment), and I can usually shoot a woodie even with a noticeable warp to it, whereas sometimes an aluminum looks straight enough... until you shoot it. And then the bends make themselves known!

From: Jim Davis
Date: 12-Mar-18




Send me all your wood shafts, if you want them out of your sight.

I have one thing to say: Reparrows will fix a broken wood shaft. NOTHING will fix a broken carbon or aluminum.

From: rraming Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 12-Mar-18




You cut the wood shafts too short, is that a 45lb bow? What is your draw length?

From: Jinkster
Date: 12-Mar-18




Jim Davis: I said "Hard to Love"...not that I hate them so bad I'd give them away! LOL!

rraming: I have a feeling one or both of us are going to learn a few things here so here goes...

Yes it is a 45# Bow and my standard DL is 28"s while my AMO DL is 26 1/4"s.

It may be of interest to note that about 2 years ago I spent a good month formulating and tuning these cedars too my old 56"/46# Thunderchild shooting bare shafts out too 30yds...cleanly.

It may also be of interest to note that not only is the Hawk design a world record holding flight bow but it's window is also cut 1/16" PAST center.

I just like the way is throws the 640gr carbons far better than the 505gr cedars.

From: SB
Date: 12-Mar-18




Have shot and hunted with wood arrows for 60 yrs. No problem.

From: bluesman
Date: 12-Mar-18




I believe carbon out penetrates wood . I use both . I have taken more game with wood . But I like carbons for moose . Have taken 5 moose traditionally . 3 with wood arrows ( two with fir , one with laminated birch ) 2 moose with carbon express heritage . The carbons both out penetrated the woods but all arrows got the job done . I have seen a video on how carbon recovers from “wag” much after resulting in less energy loss . If your a technical guy I suppose you go with carbon . I use both depending on the circumstances . Selfbow always wood IMHO .. carbon also more durable but I live in both camps .. lol

From: bluesman
Date: 12-Mar-18




Carbon recovers much faster it should say

From: Ron LaClair
Date: 13-Mar-18

Ron LaClair's embedded Photo



It depends on where you get the wood arrows.

From: Jim Davis
Date: 13-Mar-18




I make my wood shafts and can repair broken ones. I can't do either with carbon or aluminum.

I like to make my tackle.

From: 2 bears
Date: 13-Mar-18




Those wood shafts go so much better with your bow. Jinkster I love all your testing and videos but there is way way to much difference in those arrows for a head to head comparison. + you just said you you shot bare cedar shafts cleanly at 30 yards. That is good enough for the crowd I run with. >>>----> Ken

From: tonto59
Date: 13-Mar-18




Who sells the best quality wood arrow shafts today? Nice shooting Jinkster.

From: grizz
Date: 13-Mar-18




Ron, also depends on who builds them.

From: Iwander
Date: 13-Mar-18




Not a big problem if you can't hit whay your aiming at just get closer! LoL

From: Iwander
Date: 13-Mar-18




Well I just double dog dare you to build a couple dozen carbon arrows out of a Douglas fir 2 x 4

From: Iwander
Date: 13-Mar-18




I know a compound guy that thinks Trad bows hard to love. He calls them "struggle" bows.

From: Gary Miller
Date: 13-Mar-18




I 'd rather kiss a fat girl than give up my wooden arrows.

From: Iwander
Date: 13-Mar-18

Iwander's embedded Photo



From: BSBD
Date: 13-Mar-18




^^^All meat and no taters^^^

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 13-Mar-18




My only comment is, that's a nice target, Jinks.

From: Jeff Durnell Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 13-Mar-18




You don't care who got what to say? Then why should we care what YOU got to say? Lol

You can be convinced all ya want. You've convinced me of nothing. Your carbons are 150 grains heavier than the cedars, but you seem to ignore the notion that the substantial weight difference has anything to do with the fact that they sound different, make the bow sound or feel different at the shot, are more stable, accept more energy from the bow, etc.

Perhaps the shaft material can be attributed to some of those things, perhaps, but so can the weight. So which was it? And fragile? Cedar is not representative of all arrow woods. In the end, yours is NOT a fair comparison.

Those cedars of yours are very light, in fact they're almost exactly the same weight as the lightest wood arrows I've ever used, except mine were 5/16" dia. They shot great from my 53# selfbow with 1" of string follow, and blew threw the center of a doe's lungs at 26 yards one afternoon. Nothing wrong with it, rinse off and reuse. I killed three deer and a groundhog that year with those arrows. Wood works. No carbons needed here. Next subject.

From: arlone Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 13-Mar-18




As long as we wouldn't have to often or make a habit of it, I'm with you Gary!

From: Too Many Bows Bob
Date: 13-Mar-18




You're using the wrong woods. Try Forrester Wood shafts.

TMBB

From: TrapperKayak
Date: 13-Mar-18




Never shot a carbon. Why start now? Got wood...works for me.

From: zonic
Date: 13-Mar-18




Can you find 315gnbroad heads?

From: Mountain Man
Date: 13-Mar-18




Carbon and aluminum got no soul

Might as well put wheels on the end of your bow,,,,,; )

From: Kodiaktd
Date: 13-Mar-18




I've shot aluminum, carbon, and wood. They all shot good off my bow when tuned correctly. But there is just something about a well made wood arrow. I love shooting and building my own wood arrows, specially cedar. :)

From: Michael Schwister Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 13-Mar-18




It is all about tuning. Forget the charts and just bare shaft tune. Get a tuning set of tapered surewood douglas fir shafts in 5# increments, and bare shaft tune for each bow. My low 60# osage selfbows with no cutout shelf shoot 65-70# shafts with 230 grain points. My 64# toelke whip shoots 90-95# spine with 200 grain tips. My osage Great Northern Ghost recurve 60# shoots 90-95# with 160 grain tips. All shoot just as well with the woodies as the carbons.

From: chazz847
Date: 13-Mar-18




I really love how we discuss things in this site !!

From: Dao
Date: 13-Mar-18




x2 on chazz847

not quite popcorn time yet. but entertaining on slow days.

From: Snag Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 13-Mar-18




Glad to hear you are at peace with your arrows now. Shooting Surewood Douglas fir shafts I have never had one break on impact on targets. A rock had it’s way with one while stumpin though. A well tuned arrow, no matter the type, will fly good. A less than perfectly tuned arrow will cause heartache.

From: ny yankee
Date: 13-Mar-18




WOW! Yet another thing I'm doing wrong! I just find out I'm shooting the wrong broadheads, THEN I find out I'm shooting the wrong feathers, NOW I find out that wood arrow shafts are no good either! What am I going to do?

From: PEARL DRUMS
Date: 13-Mar-18




I believe a fella needs a spine tester to make proper wood arrows. They are very rarely spined what they are sold as. 10# variance in a 5# batch is the norm, I'm finding. I would equate that to buying six carbons where four are .500s and two are .400s. I think most would see that in the first shots.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Mar-18




I think if you can't shoot wood arrows well, it has more to do with the guy behind the string than the arrow leaving the bow. And, if you want perfect arrows, aluminum will be much more precise than carbons by far. Sorry Bill, but the reflection is not on the material at all...well matched woods will shoot centers all day. Even the Willhelms can show you that and that's from the 1930's.

From: Hal9000
Date: 13-Mar-18




Years ago Dan Quillian had a compound shooter shoot his Super Cedars and they grouped as well as his target arrows.

I say operator error.

From: Jinkster
Date: 13-Mar-18




zonic...I made them awhile back...

http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm? threadid=293846&category=88#4320141

From: JusPassin Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Mar-18




An old friend of mine was shooting a 900 round in MN years back. The big name in the game was standing next to him and went down range to pull arrows for him while my friend fixed an issue with his rest.

When the guy came back he laughingly asked my friend why in the world he was still shooting wood when everyone new aluminum was so much better. My friend asked him where the arrows were at in the target. The guy said "why in the bull".

My friends reply was "that's why I shoot them".

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 13-Mar-18




Wow. They make arrow shafts out of carbon now??!! I didn't know that. But what's the point? If it ain't broke don't fix it. Wood arrows shoot fine and carbon arrows have never and will never touch my longbows.

From: Kodiaktd
Date: 13-Mar-18

Kodiaktd's embedded Photo



:)

From: Grumpy
Date: 13-Mar-18




My Wapiti ceders fly just as good as my Carbon's. I very seldom shoot Carbon's. Maybe you need to do some fine tuning.

From: Grumpy
Date: 13-Mar-18




My Wapiti ceders fly just as good as my Carbon's. I very seldom shoot Carbon's. Maybe you need to do some fine tuning.

From: Gary Miller
Date: 13-Mar-18




arlone, you got a point. I started on a lark and have been addicted ever since. It is habit forming.

From: monkeyball
Date: 13-Mar-18

monkeyball's embedded Photo



I don't think Bill said he can't shoot wood arrows well, he probably can hold a tighter group at 20 yds with woods than most on here.

I fought Carbons forever, some of the comments above sounded like my own.......many years ago.

And then a trip down to Cabelas, and a walk through the Bargain Cave, found me leaving with some of those ugly, black, tubes that I swore would never rest against my bow.

Cut them down, glued in the inserts, fastened some feathers on, and went out to the target to see what this was all about.

You hardcore fellas above that say "Never", do not make the above mistake.

Your favorite woods will now find a "new to them " spot down in the cellar, next to all the other stuff you no longer use.

For me, other than the astethics of wood, carbon has it hands down. The main difference is longevity, no comparison whatsoever.

The only thing that I shoot that is wood anymore is targets.

Good Shooting->->->->Craig

From: reddogge
Date: 13-Mar-18




Who says you can't repair aluminum? Take a NIB point, heat it and pull the point off and you have a nifty slice for your aluminum arrow which can be epoxied in and a piece splice on. I've done it many times and they are still holding up.

From: RonG
Date: 13-Mar-18




I use a spine tester on my wood arrows as I'm making them to get at least six equal spines and mark the side that flexes the same so I can locate my nock, of course all you fellas know this.

I actually thought the same as Jinks, but after working with my Douglas Fir arrows, tuning the nocks to the string and the whole works, My woods shoot as well if not better than carbon, I thought aluminum shot better also until I made some POC's for my Tamerlane and grouped the arrows better than my aluminums.

I believe they can work all the same, but one type is not better than the other, I suggest picking one type and sticking and learning all you can about that material and you will be successful.

I'm glad Jinks has found his arrow material, but I will have to poo poo his claim it's better than any other.

From: Jeff Durnell Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 13-Mar-18




I ain't bashful. I'll say it... and mean it. I'll NEVER shoot carbon or aluminum arrows from my bows. Never gonna happen. Guaranteed.

From: osage
Date: 13-Mar-18




Lips that touch whiskey shall never touch mine. ( Ex wife was fond of that expression ). Same thing with carbon arrows and longbows.

From: PEARL DRUMS
Date: 13-Mar-18




For some reason, I fully believe that....gramps :)

From: monkeyball
Date: 13-Mar-18




Jeff and Pearl, You guys are where I would be if I shot Self-bows. Then it would be "wood" only. And I don't have an answer for that, just a "because that is how it would be".

Good Shooting->->->->Craig

From: Ollie Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Mar-18




Shoot what you like and don't be concerned with what others think.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Mar-18




I'm not sure that this is really about the material anyway, just putting in the time and trying all of them. Wood doesn't have the perfect roundness, or perfect this or that, but to me they are as capable as the guy shooting them. As for who shoots the best groups? It will be the guy who shoots the best group with any material. Always was that way.

I've not found carbons to do anything that a wood or aluminum arrow wouldn't, and aluminum can be straightened and doesn't explode. Wood takes more attention, but that's okay...it's not like we don't have enough time to flex them..spine them, etc. I'm not married to any material, but I sure won't say I would "never" use one as opposed to another. My first grade teacher in 1952, Mrs. Brannon, said to us...'nothing is always and nothing is never". I believe that. If I could afford it, I would have several barrels full of shafts of all ilk, but alas that would cut into my allowance too much.

So Jinkster, send me all those wood shafts/arrows. I'll put them to good use since they are pretty much junk anyway. )

From: GUTPILE PA
Date: 13-Mar-18




Yes sur MonkeyBall I luv carbons got to be the easiest arrow to tune I use wood to start fires

From: Birdy
Date: 13-Mar-18




I like wood arrows, but carbons are much more durable, And the cost of good wood shafts these days keeps pushing me further toward the dark side.

From: Jeff Durnell Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 13-Mar-18




For some, it isn't about money or ease of accuracy, tuning, construction, or use.

I don't particularly like to make arrows, but I NEED to make my own gear. I need to be invested, to be accountable. I need to eek out every ounce of challenge, reward, sportsmanship, woodsmanship, respect of prey, and internal merit possible because I'm not coming back after I die to do this better or different a second time. This is it.

I don't like spending this much time on the computer either, so..

From: Tboughty
Date: 13-Mar-18




I like wood arrows but it's cheaper for me to shoot carbons which last a lot longer.

All winter I've been shooting in my basement against garbage picked couch cushions and any time a wood arrow pops through the cushion and hits the concrete wall it's ruined. When that happens with my carbon arrows it's almost always completely fine. I've shot a junky carbon straight at my concrete wall from a 60# pound bow (54# at my draw) and it just bounced off and popped a knock out. I have lost a couple carbons to the 11 Sitka spruce I've broken in the past couple months. The woodies I have are beautiful, warm, and shoot true, but they're fragile in comparison to carbon. I want to get some POC and douglas fir shafts and see how those hold up.

From: Orion Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Mar-18




You sure do know how to stir the pot, Jinx.

Some folks know how to select and use wood. Others don't. Those who don't usually don't like wood. The same can be said regarding any other arrow maerial. Now there's a strong correlation for you. How's that for stirring the pot? :>)

From: Kodiaktd
Date: 13-Mar-18




Travis if you want wood arrows that will hold up as you say get hickory, ash, or maple, specially hickory. POC and douglas fir are not going to hold up to a brick wall. Carbon arrows are not indestructable I've seen to many of them shatter on 3D ranges from compound shooters that hit trees or rocks.

From: BigOzzie
Date: 13-Mar-18




I am in the process of changing my arrow material. I am going to wood. Why? Because it is more of a craft for me. I bought a spine tester, a woodchuck, a cresting machine, and I am excited about making some of my own creations to shoot. I have done the same with aluminum but I am more excited about getting it done with lodgepole arrows.

oz

From: Sawtooth (Original) Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 13-Mar-18




I like this thread. I feel like Jinkster a little bit? WOod? versus carbon? In my case aluminum? I absolutely love my wood arrows. I love to make them, shoot them, hunt with them- shoot them in the dirt, whatever. A good wood arrow is a beautiful thing. I like fancy-dancy wood arrows and I like old beat up pieces of crap arrows. I just have a thing for wood-------however, the precision and consistency of aluminum are hard to ignore. I can make a 2013 or 2016 SING out of any of my bows. I mean like a laser- POW! Very satisfying, it is, to turn loose a bare shaft and only see the nock flying straight through the air! Wood shoots fine, too, and is probably my all around favorite, but oh, how aluminum performs.

I have a problem and i'm sure that I'm not alone. On any given day, I'll take all the wooden arrows out of my quiver and re-tune to Aluminum. Two days later I'll change my mind again and go back to wood. And again, and again. Wishy-washy- indecisive- can't settle on just one arrow. It drives me crazy. I wish I could settle on just one, but not really, cause I love them all.

I will add this, though. And you can put this in your pipe and smoke it--- I shoot my share of pigs, and on a year-round basis. Wood just don't have the penetration qualities of carbon. In that department carbon wins hands down, then aluminum, then wood. Wood kills stuff alright, but the same weight carbon from the same bow shot at the same hog will blow right through him.

From: Tboughty
Date: 13-Mar-18




Frank - I'll try and get a hold of some hickory shafts. Soon enough I'll be able to shoot outdoors again and won't be dealing with hitting a concrete wall. I've broken enough carbons to know they're not indestructible but they hold up pretty well most of the time unless I hit something that torques the shaft in a weird way. When they break that's it though. I like the warmth and feel of wood more for sure.

From: Dan
Date: 13-Mar-18




Several years ago I met some friends at a drop camp in Colorado to hunt elk. I was surprised to see my friends, who had always prided themselves on their self-crafted POC arrows, were now shooting carbon. “Once you try them, you’ll never go back, Dan” they said.

So I didn’t.

I think I would sorely miss the wonderful scent of the cedar when I use a taper tool on the shaft ends or occasionally break an arrow…the ritual of steel wool between coasts of stain and finish…using feathers from a turkey I killed to fletch a shaft. To each: his or her own. That’s why we have chocolate AND vanilla.

From: Kodiaktd
Date: 13-Mar-18




Travis I shoot in the basement also when the weather is bad. I can shoot out to 20 yards in my basement. I have a bag target there. What I did was take a cardboard box and filled it up with old blankets and taped the box shut. Then I placed the box of blankets behind my bag target in case an arrow gets through the bag target.

From: lawdy
Date: 13-Mar-18




I have no doubt that carbon and aluminum will outshoot my wood arrows, but so won't a modern shotgun probably outshoot my 1727 Tulle de Chasse smoothbore flinter. That's what I choose to use, along with a handgun, my only modern weapon. Actually, that Tulle with its 42" barrel will nail a hare at 50 yards with #4 shot. I was born 200 years too late.

From: reddogge
Date: 13-Mar-18




We have people who will only shoot wood out of their longbows and self bows I guess for asthetic reasons. Well I feel the same about shooting carbons and aluminum out of ILF bows. Shooting wood would just feel wrong to me.

Now I do own two longbows and I shoot wood out of them. Just feels right.

From: Jeff Durnell Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 13-Mar-18




I'd shoot more accurately with less effort, and/or with more penetration with aluminum or carbon arrows, modern laminated hybrids and recurves, fancy rests, compounds, sights, a release... or a great variety of other store bought aids. This is a new revelation?

Two sticks and a string. I'm good. I'll work at it.

From: Jinkster
Date: 13-Mar-18

Jinkster's embedded Photo



Orion: I stirred no pot brother but it seems others are so passionate about their wood arrows?..."THEY"...put the whole pot in a paint shaker! LOL!

I'm amazed at where some took this as I never said I "Hate" wood arrows...I never even inferred that I dislike them (cause I don't) and actually do love wood arrows and wouldn't dream of shooting anything else off any Hill style ASL's I've owned and will own again as what I said was..."They Are Hard To Love"...(as compared too my CF arrows) and?....in reference to being shot off this hot rod of an R/D Hybrid which BTW?...I have little problem shooting CF arrows of it cause the dang bow is nothing but Shedua, Boo and UDCF with bull horn accents on the grip and surrounding area's...heck...even the tips are a solid build up of nothing but CF with not so much as a single strand of glass in the entire bow! LOL!

As far as the folks sticking up for wood arrows?...I applaud you all and your passion for archery in it's purest form.

The "Durability" thing?: Yes...there are some thin walled ultralight soda straw CF arrow shafts out there that can turn into a black cloud when striking hard objects at high velocities but trust me when I say that my 9.8gpi CX Mayhem Hunter shafts aren't those and are just this side of bomb proof with a weight forward design where the CF actually gets thicker at the point end.

And here's where I get real about Wood VS CF arrows...

In classes such as Primitive/Selfbow and Longbow where "Wood Arrows Only" is a requirement?...the 2nd most discerning thing that will separate winners from losers besides their actual level of skill and expertise?...will be the quality of their wood arrows which in effect?...winds up making the match as much a test of the archers skill as it is a who has the best woodies contest where the archer will only be as good as their arrows in events where multiple arrows are shot.

I'm adding one pic here that should speak volumes cause I've never seen this pulled off with woodies..."a bare shaft robinhooding a fletched shaft"...my CX Mayhem Hunters as shot from my SR...

From: RonG
Date: 13-Mar-18




You guys, I can just see Howard turning in his grave...Ha!Ha!

It's funny how wood arrows can't kill anything as well as carbon..........mmmmmmmmmm it seems like dead is dead no matter how you do it.

Like I said before they all work if you want them too, I'm sure the native americans didn't have problems with their crude wood bows and arrows of killing Bison.

Anyway I'm done here, Jinks all the success to you on your selection, I personally would use aluminum before I would use carbon.

From: Jinkster
Date: 13-Mar-18

Jinkster's embedded Photo



RonG: I never said anything derogatory about woodies except they are hard to love when pitted against quality CF arrows but I'm going to now cause you won't see any wood arrows at the Olympics and you won't see any wood bare shafts hooding fletched (like this) either! LOL

From: cecil
Date: 13-Mar-18




I shoot different types of arrows but I think if your woods was the same weight and tuned to your bow. you might just say its hard not to love wood. if I only had one to choose from it would be aluminum. I like carbons the least. I still shoot some now and then.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Mar-18




Robin hoods with carbon arrows are a dime a dozen anymore. The photo shows it didn't come from a great tight group Bill. Don't know where you were going with the photo but it only proves that luck makes most of those shots. If you want to brag about how good you are, then a dime size group would do more to convey superiority.

From: George Tsoukalas
Date: 13-Mar-18

George Tsoukalas's embedded Photo



It's easy for me to love something in which you've invested time and energy. I figure 12 hours + for a dozen of hand planed white pine arrows made from square stock. More time for a wild rose arrow. :)

Jawge

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 13-Mar-18




Wood arrows. You either like them or you don't. I like them. I remember at first being somewhat resistant about making wood arrows thinking they were going to not be as good as the 2117s I had shot for a decade. Man, was I ever wrong about that.

There isn't a chance in hell I'd ever shoot carbons. There isn't a chance in hell I'd own a cbow, or put a scope on my muzzleloader. lol

Just yesterday at work I ripped 100 1/2" x 1/2" blanks to make yet more wood arrows. This time, premo cedar. ULTRA premo for a fact. Like God said, "Here Bob. Have fun." Most incredible wood grain I've ever seen dead uniform straight tight grain.

From: Grim
Date: 13-Mar-18




I used to think aluminum was it for me; then I shot Douglas fir shafts.

From: Jinkster
Date: 13-Mar-18




GDS...your assessment of why I posted those pix is so far off the mark it's not worth responding too.

Jawge...Those are very nice!...you are a true artisan Sir! :)

Bob R: Have a blast man!...I'm almost 60 and still spending 10hrs a day in a machine shop...the last thing I want to do when I get home is make...well?...anything....I just wanna shoot and decompress! :)

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 13-Mar-18




Nice dense straight grained doug fir is absolute premium arrow wood without any doubt.

From: Jim Davis
Date: 13-Mar-18

Jim Davis's embedded Photo



Wood arrows break too easily?

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 13-Mar-18




I hear that Jinx. I'm 63 and my last string of 10 hour days was about a year ago where I worked 12 days in a row trying to met a dumb ass deadline and that really kicked my butt. My son was working from 7 to midnight on a few of those days, but he is only 33. I was a zombie on that last day. I mean done done. No slug left. Mentally and physically I was totally shot.

I like 8 hour days, come home to my loving wife, and relax..

From: Jinkster
Date: 13-Mar-18




I haven't ruled out what many have suggested here that if I were to go with a heavier woody then they might be real easy to love.

If I do woodies again?...I like what Kodiaktd had to say about Cedars and Doug firs not being real durable as compared to Hickory, Ash or Maple and would love to source any of those to try out...I know Kevin Forrester has some stuff called Red Balau?...and he swears by it for durability and if memory serves?...the stuff is very dense and heavy.

From: Renewed Archer
Date: 14-Mar-18




I didn't read all these posts so sorry if I am repeating something already said. But... you're saying that's a world class longbow. However, it's not designed like a traditional long bow, with its window cut past center. Most traditional longbows have a window cut before center. Even many recurves are only cut to center. For example, Whippenstick bows are certainly world class bows but Ken never cut one past center.

People say that a window cut past center is more forgiving of errors and thus it shoots straighter, as well as faster. But according to Stu Miller who created the dynamic spine calculator (and who also made wood arrows), a window cut past center is only more forgiving for carbon arrows. It is actually harder to shoot a wood arrow from a bow with a window cut past center. Conversely, wood arrows shoot better from a bow with a window cut to or before center.

So, aside from other things like arrow shaft weight, if you're shooting a modern hyped up longbow with a window cut past center, go ahead and use carbon arrows. If you want to shoot wood arrows from it, build the window out with a thicker plate and then see how they do.

From: Gary Miller
Date: 14-Mar-18




jinkster, I work 12 hour scheduled shifts, but i assure you my least hours per day is 13 hours and it could go 20 or more on occasion with no warning. Not uncommon to work 50-65 hours O. T. a month. You either like wood and are willing or you are not. For those of us who shoot wood, no amount of logic or reason will suffice. We like simple things. Carbon and aluminum ain't simple. Try to manufacture it yourself. Can't be done. We are simple folk. I have the utmost respect for machinists. You guys are brilliant when it comes to precision, common sense and time management.Wood arrows are about the average man's ability to produce his weapon.

From: Gary Miller
Date: 14-Mar-18




Man, I just read my previous post. It was superb, or the brandy heightened my senses. Either way, " The average man's ability to produce his own weapon" is a book ready to be written.

From: scot520 Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 14-Mar-18




I struggle with the Carbon wood thing a lot. I shoot very good groups with wood but never as good as with carbon. For hunting I also struggle with the ethics of the more lethal kill, because I know my nano diameter carbon with 30% FOC and a single bevel broadhead will penetrate more.

All that being said wood just feel right to me and is more fun of an experience but I personally find myself wondering at times if i'm just being selfish.

From: Bill Rickvalsky
Date: 14-Mar-18




The only disadvantage I ever encountered shooting wood arrows is that they require more effort to get everything right especially if you make them yourself. But beyond the effort I never had any problem shooting them in whatever circumstances I chose to shoot be it 3D, stumping, hunting, just straight target shooting or whatever else you want to do with your archery. If you want serious durability use ash, hickory or maple shafts. The one activity I have never tried where you might find a disadvantage with wood is flight shooting. But I don't know the rules of that game so I can't be sure.

From: Hal9000
Date: 14-Mar-18




If you can't get a wood arrow to fly out of your bow great, there is either something wrong with you or the bow. They are really easy and tolerant of many things. Putting the tips on dead center perfect goes a long way for durability and a quality taper tool is invaluable for that.

From: Matt B
Date: 14-Mar-18




Wood arrows are not perfect, but they are traditional. Kinda like actually holding the string with your fingers and not using a sight.

From: RymanCat
Date: 14-Mar-18




WOODIE WOOD I.

From: RonG
Date: 14-Mar-18




Jinks, I didn't say you said anything bad about wood arrows matter of fact I congratulated you and wished you well on two posts that you finally found what works best for you.

I was just pointing out that one type of arrow are not better than others, just because you work all day and don't want to fletch up a bunch of wood arrows doesn't make them not as good as carbon.

This was I thought a discusion about what you found works for you and you had a bunch of opinions on different arrow material which were opinions, that is all.

I shoot wood as well as carbon or aluminum because I am 72 and have the time and dedication to make it so. The only reason the olympics don't use wood is that no one will supply or sponsor with wood.....Ha!Ha!

As far as your lucky shot with carbon I have a bunch of those, I have only done one robin hood but I don't remember at this moment what arrow I was using, I believe it was aluminum, I shot the first shot of the day and put the arrow dead center at 15 yards and shot the second arrow and it went in the end of the first, haven't done it before and since and if I do it again it will be luck.

no one does robin hoods on demand, not even Robin Hood could.

I apologize if you took me wrong, I don't like to be negative on what others do, I just try to post my opinion.

From: Mpdh
Date: 14-Mar-18




Us single string archers are a passionate bunch aren’t we!

MP

From: B arthur
Date: 14-Mar-18




I don't want to hijack this thread but i have a serious question. What do you prefer in your slongshot: marbles, ballbearings or nice round stones. I'll wait for your reply!!

From: osage
Date: 15-Mar-18




The Tijuana police were issued slingshots and ball bearings after getting busted for corruption. Lots of complaints from the thugs who got thumped by them.

From: Carolinabob
Date: 15-Mar-18




I love wood arrows, Many years had a compound that loved to shoot wooden arrows.

From: bluesman
Date: 15-Mar-18




okay I'm going against my policy of everyone has an opinion and ask a question of the "hardcore " wood archers/hunters . If you are shooting a bow made of wood and glass.... how is a" wood arrow " traditional. Aluminum has been used since the 60's and Fred Bear , Glenn St. Charles and such were constantly trying to improve the traditional bow and the arrow, that is how fiberglass lams came to be as well as the patent on the recurve design by BEAR . If you want to be a diehard wood arrow shooter because of tradition or history, you should also only shoot a selfbow. There is my opinion. I don't see how you can compare arrows made of aluminum or carbon to going to the use of a compound bow next. The material in an arrow only contributes to its durability and recovery of "wag" which aids in penetration. The archer still has to do his job with the accuracy ( although one can argue that because carbon or aluminum arrows are matched they are more accurate .A well matched set of woods are very accuratre too). As i said I shoot both wood and carbon, I don't think its wrong to only shoot one or the other or aluminum shaft arrows...It's what you prefer. Wood is more "primitive " More "traditional" I would argue that one.

If wood was as accurate and durable as carbon I think the competitive archers would be using them as much as carbon.

From: Jinkster
Date: 15-Mar-18




Little more info here...I do love wood arrows for reasons of...

1. Sentiment (Cedar arrows were all I had as a child and young man)

2. Their Superior Beauty.

and?...

3. There's simply no dosputing that the "Cool Factor" of shooting woodies is off the charts.

Now I did have a fellow Border Hawk shooter inform me that he as well had trouble tuning woodies where his Cedars spined 70-75# proved too weak off his 30" DL/60#s OTF Hawk whch for me confirmed my 27 1/2" 60# Cedars w/ 160gr points aren't out of line for this bow but it's the light mass weight of 505grs/11.2gpp that just doesn't make them as pleasurable to shoot as my 640gr/14.2gpp Carbons as that extra 3gpp really subdues the bow into a very pleasant shooting smooth, quiet rig.

If I reazlly want to romance woodies off this bow?...I'm going to need to go with heavier hardwood shafting.

From: MStyles
Date: 15-Mar-18




Whatever works for you Bill, that’s what you should use. When I came back to trad archery, I went to 2117 aluminum arrows. My problem with aluminum was if it had a slight bend, I’d shoot it anyway. After trying to straighten aluminum, I decided to go back to wood. The best decision I made with wood was to use Top Hat stainless points on hickory and Top Hat brass points on POC. They screw over the end of the shaft and don’t require a taper. An untapered shaft is stronger at the point end.

From: moleman 1
Date: 15-Mar-18




I love woods. I've found that it's not the arrows that are fussy but the bows themselves. By shooting the point weights that I prefer and shooting different spine weights, the bow will let me know what it likes. Sometimes the charts don't mean sqaut as the least likely spine sometimes turns out to be what the bow likes. Not very scientific but it works for me...and I'm pretty fussy bout arrow flight.

From: 2 bears
Date: 15-Mar-18




You go Jinkster nice shooting. If anyone has a dozen Robinhood arrows for a dime,I am buying. Send them to me.I can save the second arrow and points off the first.>>>----> Ken

From: Jinkster
Date: 15-Mar-18




moleman: I almost don't feel right shooting woodies off anything other than an HH/ASL style bow...wood is lively and that's where they need to live. ;)

From: Tomas de Gato
Date: 16-Mar-18




I never shot woodies till recently. Started playin' with my 64" JD Berry Taipan. Had so much fun that I started romantically looking at wood arrow photos. Found what I wanted and called Paul J. with Elite Arrows for 3 arrow tune kit. Paul estimated the spine and mailed me 3 beautiful white stained arrows with yellow feathers. I shot the middle spine first and watched a perfectly spined arrow fly like a yellow laser beam to the balled up white paper towel stuck in my hay bale target at 20 yards. It was almost a spiritual experience. Said to myself, "no freakin' way", then did it again and again and again. Shot it through paper got a perfect bullet hole. Shot the heavier spine and got slight tail right. Shot the lighter spine and got slight tail left. Shot the mid range again and got another bullet hole.

A well tuned arrow and longbow is indescribable bliss.

Did I mention that Paul mailed me the arrows free of charge. Seriously, I had never spoken the man and he makes and sends me 3 perfect arrows for free.

Now that is an Elite Arrows maker!

From: Jeff Durnell Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 16-Mar-18




I've wondered how many archers have never shot wooden arrows, or never shot a good wooden bow that wasn't laminated and sandwiched between layers of fiberglass, and would feel the same sense of wonderment and bliss as you did, Tomas. I bet a rather large percentage of today's archers have zero experience with them... and folks(and industry) spouting untruths, halftruths, or bias towards them continues to dissuade those people from ever trying. That's a shame.

From: ny yankee
Date: 16-Mar-18




I don't shoot wood arrows because they are "traditional", I shoot them because they work, and because I like them.

From: monkeyball
Date: 16-Mar-18




Depends on the age Jeff. I just got into Carbons probably 16 years ago.

Up until then it was nothing but woods. Cedar, Maple, Ash, a Hickory or two (way to heavy in physical#), and even use to go and pick out some straight dowels from the hardware store.

Hand planed and tapered some from 3/8" square stock also. It is rewarding, but also time consuming. This day and AGE has little "time" for "time" if you know what I mean.

Todays archers are holding there choice of weapon in a different way than you and I do, and there is no way you will ever see a wooden shaft on one of them.

It is a slowly dying art.

Good Shooting->->->->Craig

From: Tomas de Gato
Date: 16-Mar-18




Wood arrows and bows have been around for thousands of years. I think interest in trad archery is increasing at the moment. Kudos to people like Tim Nebel and Matt Zirnsack with the Push Podcat, Clay Hays with the Twisted Stave and this forum. The witchery of archery is contagious. I'm inspired by the generosity and shared wisdom of the people on this site.

From: RonG
Date: 16-Mar-18




B Arthur, I gave up slingshots over sixty years ago. We used marbles, steelies were too prized to waste in a slingshot...Ha!Ha!

We feel pity on the native Americans for the crude equipment they had, I believe they had better equipment then we do....Ha!Ha!

From: tradmt
Date: 16-Mar-18




I want to know what the half truths, untruths and bias is that is dissuading people from using these self bows and wood arrows.

From: RonG
Date: 16-Mar-18




Yes that would be interesting tradmt, I know I converted over to self-bows and not looking back.

The only problem I see with self-bows is that you can't shoot as fast as an Ar-15

From: Jinkster
Date: 16-Mar-18




MStyles: I love the idea of Top hat SS on hickory but where do I find high quality hickory shafting?...anybody?

From: Jeff Durnell Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 16-Mar-18




Tradmt, stuff like they're too slow, inaccurate, inefficient, ineffective, unethical, unavailable, fragile, finicky, too expensive, require too much special treatment, hard to tune, hard to make, require too much time, money, practice, won't stay straight... etc. Those are just some of the things I've heard spouted, often from folks who are unfamiliar, and they can deter folks who never have, from ever trying them. I've seen staunch, unfounded bias even from the most well known and respected bowyers.

From: Hal9000
Date: 16-Mar-18




well said Jeff D.... and oh so true. Got a guy on here that thinks he is quite the bowyer, but fairly new to the game. Went on and on at 3D league how great carbons are (the ones with the wood grain..lol) but hasn't really got the gist of the wood game yet. Of course anyone new to the game, he will tell them carbons are the way to go.

Last 2 deer I have taken were with 23/64ths cedars from the 1960's. Parallel shafts and dacron strings, one with your selfbow and the other from a ASL I made, both deer died in sight.

From: newell38
Date: 16-Mar-18




I like to keep my money “in house” so I’ll keep buying my shafts from the wood turners. The compound guys can feed the other beast. Nothing against other shaft materials. I could care less what anyone else shoots but I know what I like and who I’d rather give my money to.

From: tradmt
Date: 16-Mar-18




I only hear that they are typically slower, less efficient, more fragile, require special treatment.

I don't think anyone that has a desire to do what you do Jeff is discouraged by any of it, if one wants to, they will, and it's because they wanted that level of archery. Most, do not, and that's just fine too.

Personally, I have some desire to make a self bow and arrows, some, but mostly, at this point, I'm pretty content with modern glass backed bows and carbon shafts that last through years of hard use without any maintenance to speak of.





If you have already registered, please

sign in now

For new registrations

Click Here




Visit Bowsite.com A Traditional Archery Community Become a Sponsor
Stickbow.com © 2003. By using this site you agree to our Terms and Conditions and our Privacy Policy