31st Cloverdale Traditional Nationals TRADITIONAL BOW PACKAGE RAFFLE The 2018 Bow Raffle info: TimberHawk bow by Scott Mitchell Includes: $900 toward custom bow from Timberhawk Bows Inc. Bow case from Rhino Products, A quiver from Selway Tickets can be purchased at the shoot or by email prior to shoot: [email protected] Drawing will be Saturday, June 9, 2018 @ 6pm Attendance not required to win

TTT

Jim, I won the Bear takedown a few years ago when I bought three tickets right before the drawing. I don't think I could ever get that lucky again, but I'm still going to buy tickets!

I love Cloverdale....in rummaging through my "junk" box recently, I decided to do something with my collection of buttons from Cloverdale so I strung them on a nylon strap and hung them on my bow rack as a reminder of all the fun I have had there over the years.

You just gotta love the Cloverdale shoot!!!! Such a great course, with hard working club members that make this one of the best shoots that there is. See you all there again in June!!!

TTT

David, I'll try to get there with the beer a little earlier this year!

Cloverdale is my favorite shoot.

we have our reservations made, Cloverdale is one of our favorites

I love this event! I cant wait!!

Nice collection David! The Bear bow to the left of the buttons looks out of place. What would you take for it? ;)

HA! My 59er is not for sale. :o)

Back up. If you can't make it to the shoot, tickets can be bought on line. Check out Jim's info on the first post. The winner of the donation last year by Big Jim was a internet purchaser.

David

TTT

Great. Shoot, I try to make it every year if just for a day.

Kurt, I'm going to the Kentucky Tradfest and the Classic. Might see you at one of those.

David

Nancy and I will see you!

Same to you Kurt.

David

I'm guessing the weather will be perfect

Clydebow, likely good weather for Cloverdale. ;~)

NO RAIN??? That just wouldn't be Cloverdale. ;O)

The weather was perfect last year for the anniversary shoot. Just didn't really seem fitting though, but not disappointed in the least!

TTT

Heading to Kentucky Friday then onto Tennessee to Twin Oaks. Kurt, you going to Tradfest?

David

Back up

Back up

I know there are no stabilizers allowed, but are barebow weights allowed? Its just added mass...

01archer86, Could you post a picture of your bow with the weights? That would help us out. Thanks, Jim

?

Hey is that Town Hall Archery in the picture with the green bow?

Yep thats mine. Ive been a been a full time employee at Town Hall for 3 years now. I was curious if Barebow weights were allowed at Cloverdale or not.

Jeff, Looks like your weight is screwed into the stabilizer bushing on the riser, so sorry but that would not be allowed. Many would call that just a short stabilizer. Thanks for posting the picture. If you have any other questions you can pm me here or contact me at [email protected]

Sounds good. Thanks. Thats all I needed to know.

Back up

TTT

what state for those who have no idea about trad. shoots. Club, area, range or where can one find "all" the details. Thanks..

Thanks Kurt and Jim for keeping this up to the top and answering questions. Been away from the computer for a few days.

David

thank you Bigstriper..

Yep, I've made plans to be there. Wife and I staying at the "6" again.

Hi Dave,Me and the wife will be there again looking forward to it,and seeing you, Brian,Brother Dan etc.(RIBS OR WINGS) ain't decided! FRANK.

Back up

In regards to the rules if I just want to shoot for fun can I shoot my ilf with a stabilizer? No care to compete at this time just want to come shoot with the lady and have some fun!

I would think all you have to do is write no score on your card at registration. You will need to keep your button and score card available for the check points.

Thanks last year I just kept the button but I shor with a guy and his son who didn't keep track either. So to clarify no stabilizer but I can shoot off the shelf on a metal ilf riser and still be able to score?

Yes, I'm shooting Dalaa with Winex limbs.

Thanks for the clarification

Back up.

Thanks Kurt. See you next Wednesday. David

Back up

Picked up the new camper today. Should be camping in our usual spot.

back up

TTT

TTT

PM sent Kurt. Good to see you last weekend.

David

Back up

"

You're putting the push on us Kurt. We still have a lot of work to do. Looking forward to it. Don't miss out on tickets for the bow raffle even if you can't make the shoot.

David

Are there many vendors that show up to Cloverdale? I'm thinking about driving up to check it out, probably will not shoot the event, but would like to shoot some different bows and maybe order or buy one or two. Thanks

Jimbob, the vendors at cloverdale last year was better than the turn out at trad worlds. Well worth the trip if your in driving distance.

Jimbob, Cloverdale is a great shoot with a fair amount of vendors, well worth going to. You may also want to consider the Compton Rendezvous the weekend after Cloverdale. That is at the Berrien Springs MI sportsmans club a few miles north of South Bend IN. Both are great events and two of the best in this area. I don't think you would be disappointed.

That's what I needed to know. Thanks!

Closing in fast!! Back up

Some of my Cloverdale buttons collected over the years at my favorite shoot. :o)

Kurt Where are you camping? At the shoot or the RV park down the road? I'm planning on making it this year again. Missed last year.

Can't wait, going to be fun. Great people and great shoot.

Nice Dave. I like all the wood on the walks . My house and cabin are like that. Can't have too much wood

See you in the shoot out Kurt...

You will, Thanks buddy

Unless something comes up, we will be there on the Sunday, the weekend before, and camp all week. Will head over to Parker's Archery Monday evening to shoot their indoor trad 3d shoot.

See you then Kurt.

Little over a week away. Don't forget to get your bow raffle tickets if you can't make it to the shoot.

David

TTT for the weekend. Less than a week now.

David

Got the camping areas cleaned up today ready for our guest. Looking forward to seeing everyone.

David

is there a address i can put in my gps? name of club?

Deer Creek Archers at the Cloverdale Conservation Club---- Recurve, Longbow, Selfbow 31st Cloverdale Traditional Nationals- -2885 E County Road 700 S- -Cloverdale, IN.46120 ----June 8-9-10 2018 ---- 50 Targets plus a 25 target practice range. NO SIGHTS-- NO STABILIZERS--NO MECHANICAL REST-NO RELEASES---- If you need more info--Google -- Cloverdale Traditional Nationals 2018.

From an earlier post by Bigstriper

Thank You,KIRK

We arrived yesterday around none. Joshua caught a few fish, and Nancy cooked some pork chops on the fire for dinner. Shot the practice range early this morning while it was still cool out. Great sleeping weather, we actually had to get quilt out to cover up with last night in bed. Going to head to Spencer to eat this evening before heading to Parker's Archery to shoot.

Packing!

They're working on 231 around 70 and in town. The traffic sucks. Depending how your coming in, you might google another way in.

I think they have moved farther north, so 70 exit may be ok now.

Clyde is, Is Frank Rejonis set up across from you yet?

Yes

Tell them I said hi and good luck from the widowman

Will do.

Im leaving at 0'dark30 in the morning.

I'll be be there all day Saturday...someone keep my posted if it's a muddy mess it's been raining wild here about 2 hrs north. Wanna make sure I bring proper footwear

Thanks to everyone who attended this years Traditional Archery Nationals!! Also, a special thanks to all our wonderful Vendors who set up to show there wares. We got real lucky with the weather Friday and Saturday. Got some rain on Sunday but seemed like everyone had a good time!! We will be having many discussions on the format and rules for the next several months and will have the 2019 rules ready in time for everyone to see well ahead of the shoot. Thanks again!!

Thanks for another great Cloverdale experience. This has been on my must-do list for many years. I personally appreciate the hard work that goes into making the shoot happen. I have my collection of Cloverdale buttons strung on a strap on my bow rack. I have only missed 2 shoots in 31 years but unfortunately did not keep a few buttons. But this collection reminds me of how much I enjoy Cloverdale.

We shot on Saturday and had a great time as usual. Cloverdale is a great course.

We would like to see Cloverdale consider making more of an effort to attract those who do not keep score or turn a card in. My wife, kids, and I have attended shoots across the nation for about 20 years. One thing that we have noticed is that the more popular shoots cater to those who turn in cards and those who don't. For example, consider the Tennessee Classic. Of course, ETAR the peak of traditional shoots and the always popular Compton rendezvous are not even competitive. There were numerous shooters at Cloverdale this year not scoring.

We have kept score over the years at various shoots. Each person in our family has enjoyed their share of firsts and seconds. We still occasionally score but rarely. We enjoy Cloverdale enough to pay to shoot the course even though we are paying for are now adult children. However, it would be nice to see a different price structure for those who just want to experience a great course.

Anyway, we still had a great time. Wouldn't be an great year without shoots like ETAR, Compton, Tennessee Classic, and the Cloverdale Nationals.

Thanks to all the Cloverdale club members for putting on another great event!! Wife and I had a great time shooting our bows and spending time with friends, that always makes us winners at Cloverdale. Awesome shoot!!

My two cents, for what it's worth.

I understand those that want to shoot "just for fun" and not keep score. This is something I also experience as well at my event. What many may not understand is that the work isn't diminished for those that put on the shoot to make it a good course. BUT, what I think is most important, buying targets isn't less expensive for putting on a fun shoot.

ETAR & Compton are great venues for non-competitors and I applaud them, but I still believe there are many out there that have the competitive spirit even if they may not win.

Terry Harris

Terry,

Apparently you read too much into my post and missed some. As I said, we often did compete in the past but rarely do now. I am just suggesting that Cloverdale could likely better achieve one of their goals of promoting traditional archery if their price structure would take into account those that for whatever reason just want to enjoy the course. We go to way too many shoots a year to think that $35 a round for 50 targets is the bare necessity.

I am not trying to question the motives of why some avoid competition or why some are so driven to it. Let's face it there are questionable reasons for both. Plus, there way too many reasons. Nor did I question the hard work that the host club puts into their event.

As is often the case in our world today, some are constantly feeling that their identity is being threatened if someone doesn't have the same thoughts as them. But, when I pay almost $200 to treat our group just to shoot a course, I feel like I can speak out on behalf of those who are not fortunate enough to do so.

Bottom line is that we enjoy Cloverdale and just think they should look at as more than just another competition. It has its place but shouldn't be the only thing.

I hope everyone had a good time. After looking forward to this event for an entire year i got the post with the rule change half day before the event making it impossible for me and many others to compete. There were about a dozen of us local to the Cincinnati area that just couldnt justify a 6hr round trip if our scores didnt even count. With a half day notice there was no time with work schedules to hunt down hotels, re-shuffle family plans etc etc. I wanted to get a bow for my 2 year old daughter, had a couple risers to take to bow doc, and really wanted to test my skills against the talent there. I can only guess how the organizers of this event could have justified or even considered such a drastic change a half day before the shoot and not even update the website with the new rules. All we got was 1 blast on facebook, and if you dont “like” the deer creek archers page you didnt even get that. I will probably never enjoy cloverdale the way i used to after this chain of events. One thing is certain, we all know who the pencil pushers are. I would rather get beat by one of those guys then stand up there and collect my 2018 participation trophy.

A big thanks to all the folks who spend lots of hours putting on a great shoot.

Shawm, I answered your P.M.

Kirk, It's $35 for the first round for an individual shooter. It's $55 for a family.

It's $15 For the next round if you aren't competing in another class.

That includes unlimited shooting on the practice range.

Clyde,

I think you missed that I stated that most of my children are adults now. Thus, the $55 only covered my wife, my teenager, and myself. Thus, I pay a bit more than most and let's be truthful. As much as we enjoy the course at Cloverdale, the price for the amount of targets is not comparable to many shoots such as Compton, ETAR, the Tennessee Classic, etc.

However, I think You miss my point anyway. My point is that many clubs are making the competition their first priority and making the use of traditional archery for recreation or hunting an afterthought. My suggestion to Cloverdale and all clubs is to make sure that you are being true to your claim of promoting traditional archery first.

If traditional archery competition was so popular, why will Compton draw a bigger crowd this coming weekend? Maybe it is because I have numerous awards stashed around here from my youth and just not old enough yet to fear that there is nothing for me to compete in, but I probably only feel like hassling with recording a score at two or three shoots a year. Still have never picked up my ribbon, trophy, etc from anything in the last few years. When my wife won the women's recurve and our youngest finished 3rd in the youth a couple of years ago at Farmland, they waited for us to sign in that Fall in order to give them their trophies. As usual, we hadn't even checked back to see how they had done.

What I am suggesting is that Cloverdale and others consider that since those worried about fair competition require more from the host club then they should pay more. Whether the host club has to tally scores, establish peer groups, or provide score keepers, more is required of them. Then as so many who are more interested in shooting traditional bows on great courses, experiencing camaraderie, and challenging themselves among their family/friends that a different price structure should exist in order to foster the many aspects of traditional archery beyond traditional archery competitions.

I for one would not mind spending more to compensate the host club for the additional work required of them for the competition side of these shoots. Of course, the competition is not my first priority. If it were, I would have worked towards the gold in the Olympics. Still waiting for the first shoot where competitors are required to pay for the services of a score keeper approved by the host club.

Sorry to be so long, but things get really misunderstood on here. My point is simply that just promoting the competitive side of Cloverdale, or any shoot, seems to limit them in their ability to promote traditional archery as a whole.

BigStriper, Years ago there was no Compton rendezvous just days away from Cloverdale. I think that one huge reason that attendance of both shooters and vendors are not what they were in the past is going on this week end in Berrien Springs--plain and simple. The folks in traditional archery businesses like to support/belong to Comptons because it is a national organization with a national publication and gives them wide exposure for their business. Nothing wrong with that. Cloverdale is sponsored by a local club, so guess where the majority of vendors will wind up going. Many cannot do both shoots, especially if they have to travel a long distance. It would likely mean up to 2 weeks away from the shop or business. I have never understood why Comptons felt it a good idea to schedule an event so close to Cloverdale's shoot. Lots of folks can't take vacation time that close together to attend both, and Comptons has the vendors and vendors draw shooters. There are lots of week ends in the summer they could have chosen. To have two large events in the same geographic region, and only days apart, was a move they had to see would no doubt impact the Cloverdale shoot in a negative way. I have been to 29 of the 31 Cloverdale shoots and still contend that they have the finest 3D shoot set up of any I have been to--including Comptons.

Shawm, The shoot off Sunday was scored 11, 10,and 8. 5 was still a zero. That was to avoid any ties if the kill only counted 5 like the regular course.

Yep, I can tell you for sure, you can't please everyone, prices do seem a bit steep to me but it seems a lot of shoots I go to have went up for some reason. I guess when numbers goes down prices go up. Pappy

Kirk "However, I think You miss my point anyway." I'm not missing the point you are making, I just completely disagree with your point.

" My point is that many clubs are making the competition their first priority and making the use of traditional archery for recreation or hunting an afterthought. My suggestion to Cloverdale and all clubs is to make sure that you are being true to your claim of promoting traditional archery first."

Promoting traditional archery is exactly what they are doing. That is why they are "All" traditional archery shoots. We get plenty of recreation, and hunting practice while, shooting 3D targets that represent animals we hunt. The fact that there is, or isn't, a competition involved does not alter that. They set up a course, you pay, and shoot whether you compete or not. If you aren't a competitor, why would you care that there is a competition side to the shoot? The minor difference is turning in a score card, or not.

Once again you fail to comprehend the entire point but rather pick and choose what you think you understand.

Whether there is or is not a competitive aspect to a particular traditional archery shoot should not interfere with the promotion of traditional archery. HOWEVER, IT DOES! Why? Simple, not everyone wants to have their family or friend group broken up just to satisfy the insecurities of some. Not everyone thinks that even if an organization has a handful of members throughout the world that every shoot with the word "national" or "world" in it is actual a competition consisting of the worlds best archers. So, what we have in the end is a lot of shooters having to pay for the additional efforts of the clubs to pacify the competition shooters.

They pay in more than money too. They lose opportunities to enjoy more time with the people of their choice, they stand and wait at targets while the group in front records scores in front of the target and debate each shot as if it were an Olympic event. We get to see the numerous debates and childish name calling that even exists on here.

BTW, I no point did I say that we opposed the competition side of the shoots. In fact, I pointed out that we still do compete on occasion. We however do not stand and record scores in front of targets. We are willing to pay more for competing and do. I did not see where you offered to do the same. We applaud TAS recent efforts to offer cards stamped for those who just want to shoot and enjoy the company of their choice and time.

Again, My point is not that the competitions are bad. My point is just that promoting the competition should not take priority over fostering an environment that is more inviting to those who are new, enjoy the actually shooting with family or friends, or just simply do not care to hassle with recording scores (or sticking around another day for a shootoff etc.)

Clyde, there is no doubt that the traditional archery competitions can have a role in promoting the pursuit. However, it is ridiculous to think that competition as the top priority will do as much as shoots that promote the interactions of family and friends in the context of traditional archery. I can't stress enough the success of ETAR and Compton each year as examples. Furthermore, Look at the Tennessee Classic's growth which is an excellent example of how a shoot can incorporate competition into an otherwise gathering of people just enjoying traditional archery.

I appreciate that you feel that competition at traditional archery is important to you. I agree it can do some of the things needed to preserve and promote the pursuit. However, it is clear that it isn't the best way. From the arguments associated with scoring to the success of Compton and ETAR, it is clear that there is a better way.

So, in the end and staying on topic, I encourage Cloverdale to look at adopting a model similar to that of the Tennessee Classic or the card stamps being used by TAS. This is my point and my suggestion.

Kirk,

Cloverdale already is similar to other clubs in that no one is obligated, or forced, to compete. It doesn't matter if they don't have a card stamp. You never had to compete at the Classic or T.A.S. even before they had stamps.

I'm not failing to comprehend your entire point. We just aren't going to agree. I don't believe there is anything incorporated in traditional shoots that interferes with the promotion of traditional archery. I don't view competition as being a clubs top priority. It's just another segment of some shoots.

Even though I really enjoy shooting them, I never said I felt that competition was important to me. Not all the shoots I attend are competitions. However, I can enjoy either one, because the only difference is having, or not having, a score card.

People are different and somethings that might bother one person, are non-issues with another.

I completely understand wanting to shoot with friends or family. Of all the competitive shoots I attend, the I.B.O. has been the strictest about grouping. Even there, you can add another shooter as a second scorer . If you are going to compete though, you know going in you will have to follow the rules set by the club.

Again, we just have different viewpoints.

Clyde,

I agree that we disagree upon the benefit of the competitive side of shoots such as Cloverdale. I agree that it has some benefit but not to the degree that you think it might.I would add that no one suggested that anyone was forced to compete or that a host club's rules should not be followed. The TAS format allows those not competing to shoot without establishing a time or group. By adding the stamp, there is less questioning and crying by those who are so concerned about cheats. Is the stamp necessary? No. Does it help move things along and help stop bickering and make things more inviting? Absolutely.

Given that the organizers of Cloverdale are now reviewing and gathering opinions for next year, it is only appropriate that we have these conversations in public forums such as here. Cloverdale is certainly not what it once was. As we travel the country to various shoots, it is apparent that many shoots are not as well attended. I would like to see that reversed as I am sure you would too.

For you the only difference might be having a scorecard. For others it might mean busting up their group, being relegated to another course, adding a stranger if they can find one to their party, etc. No way is this conducive to bringing in new people or promoting traditional archery in the BEST manner. Obviously, you are already attending. The concern is to increase the numbers and not exclude.

Competition is about promoting one's self and that has its place. Let's just keep in mind that if we do not promote traditional archery first, there will be no shoots to worry about competing in. Clyde, you have a good time at your next shoot. We might not agree on the impact of competition, but I think we agree that shooting traditional archery is enjoyable. As for me, it is the weekend and I have two shoots to attend. One is even competitive. So, I will mostly be away from the keyboard. Take care.

Any results posted yet !

Thanks to david and the guys in indiana for another great shoot and a great job that you do. BEEN GOING FOR YEARS and will always have this shoot on my schedule. As far as all the scoring discussions and confusion that is going on, I will say that this is the only place i know of where a man,woman or child can go and hit all 50 targets and end up w 0-points without any kill shots. So whats the reward for haveing no BLANKS! Ah i know its called FRUSTRATION! Just saying,I believe the 11-10-8-5 is best atleast your compensated for your every hit, Thats Fair!

Kirk, Good luck.

They had a problem and hope to have the results up by Monday.

Results sent to the webmaster. Should be up on our clubs site soon. Thanks everybody!!

I still cant figure out how you could change all the rules the afternoon before the shoot then not really even tell anyone. Its just crazy how much i look forward to this shoot and its like they walked up behind everybody, kicked em in the nuts and ran off. I was so upset i couldnt even go and lots of others did the same. Forcing folks to stick around all day sunday to win is a good way to lower your competitive shooter attendance. Even the fun shooter that hopes in the back of his mind he has a good day and might win. If the goal is to drive the thing into the ground, mission accomplished.

Trevor, We are really sorry you were so upset about the late rule/format change to this years Traditional Nationals. This was a change we have been discussing for several years and never could come to a consensus until this year. We realize it was very late and would inconvenience some shooters. We decided to go ahead and start it this year so we could get input from shooters this year as we knew it will need tweaked going forward. The great group we have that puts this shoot 0n is not getting any younger and we never know how much longer we will keep putting this shoot on. None of us are ready to throw in the towel yet though. Our goal is to provide a FUN and Competitive shoot. There is NO perfect format for that. What you like, someone else doesn't. That's just the way life is. Now that we have made a change we will be discussing how to improve it for 2019. There will be rules announced in plenty of time for next year. This will be my only comment on this as I refuse to argue online. I am more than happy to discuss this with anyone at the shoot or by phone. Again, Thanks to everyone who attended this years shoot and good luck in the woods this fall!!

Results are up now on our web-site http://cloverdaleconservationclub.org

You will never make everyone happy. Every state, National, and world competition I have attended in the last 20years has the competition continue into Sunday, with awards afterwards. Yes,it makes it hard to get home for Monday obligations, but if you want to compete, that is the way it is done. Almost all the competitions have fun rounds and courses for the noncompetitors.

I was going to mention what Julia said about Sunday shoot offs. I've been shooting 3Ds since 1989. I know every year the dates, and the shoots, we are going to attend. That means we know ahead of time, and don't plan anything else that weekend. Those weekends are our shoot weekends, and that's all we do unless something comes up we can't avoid. We have always stayed Sunday to watch the presentations regardless.

I welcome the idea of a shoot off, but agree the new rule for a shoot off should have been announced, and then implemented next year. Now people will know ahead of time, and can plan accordingly.

The idea to have cards in by maybe 5 or 6 p.m. Saturday, and a 9 a.m. shoot off Sunday, is inline with the other major competitions. Of course if they had done that this time, the people that only planned on competing Sunday morning would not have been able to turn in their scores, so you would have had another group of disappointed people.

It was mentioned somewhere above that Cloverdale would lose competitors because of the Sunday shoot off. I believe they have been loosing competitors over the years because of not having a system in place to weed out the people that have been a little too liberal with their pencils.

I agree with clyde 100%

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