Just took my bow to the local bow shop and shot the 61 lb bow. Although I'm a 26-inch draw I'm shooting 56 or 57 lbs, it shot 180 fps. Is that good? I don't have anything to compare my bows against to know if that's fast or not. Also shot a 40 lb bow at 140fps.

I hope you realize this Q makes no sense without knowing the weight of the arrows.

Yes, very adequate.

That's awesome

Total Arrow weight is roughly 420 grains.

Yup. Regardless of the weight of the arrows, that's pretty darn good.

The problem with numbers is they become an infatuation with some folks. My advice would be to accept those numbers as good enough for a great shooting bow and just part of what performance really is. At 7.5 grains per pound (420 grains on 56# bow) I'm sure the keyboard physicists will be here soon to put you in your place. ))))). Love your bows, by the way and suspect they will perform quite nicely with any weight arrow.

Just a question about the chronograph deals? We always hear about XXX FPS. Is this the BEGINNING VELOCITY? At what distance is the chronograph set up from the bow? How about the DOWN-RANGE VELOCITY? ( close to or AT the target) Any way to determine THAT? Just asking!

George, everybody and there brother asks me about fps so that's why I checked em. I am building arrows heavier for the 61# bow. I shot the 420 grain arrow cuz that's all I had.

Longbow. RD or recurve

Works for me Shade since I try to ignore most fps figures. I buy a bow because it shoots good for me and fits. Whatever it does after that I already know will be adequate since I shot plumb through a large buck with a 1940'is lemonwood bow at 52#. That bow may reach 140 fps with a stiff wind behind it and 8 gpp. Just guessing of course, but it was plenty of bow for any game in this country, and was a joy to shoot. Fit...for me, is numero uno.

SH, I can answer your question - can you hit what you're aiming at? If you can it's good if you can't it's not. Along with that I'd tell you that you can shoot 51 pounds more accurately admittedly slower.

My 39 pound bow shoots an arrow at 176 at 13.5 grains per pound, but we're not comparing apples to apples - it's a SR.

Batman, I just answered a PM about something related to down range velocity. I have stats somewhere on the speed of 3 five inch feathers compared to 3 two inch feathers. It's like 1 foot per second ave. But at 22 yards (just the yardage I happened to be shooting at), there's a 4 inch difference on ave.

Maybe Sheldon Cooper could do a ratio on that and figure it out. I can't.

If you get an answer from him PM me.

Bowmania

You build a nice looking bow from what I see. Listen to George, don't get too hung up on numbers.

Shade -

Arrow weight and draw length are the most important factors. While 180 fps sounds good, you're shooting an 7.3 (420/55#) grain/pound arrow. I would say that your speed on that bow is about average.

On the 140 fps bow, I would bet that the gr/lb was a lot higher.

How important is arrow speed? Kinda depends. As long as you have enough, it isn't a problem. In the target world, it's pretty easy: you want enough to reach your farthest target before you run out of sight travel. In the trad world it's a little greyer.

Viper out.

Good stuff. Batman, the chronograph was placed about 3 ft in front of the bow.

Hybrid longbow.

Given the light arrow, 7.5 gpp, the speed is about what I'd expect. You'll probably loose 10-15 fps with an arrow in the 9-10 gpp range. As George notes, plenty to kill critters.

Draw length is the most important factor for generating speed. My draw is 28" and I was pretty happy until I let my buddy shoot my bow. He's 6'5" and a complete novice but those full length arrows screamed out of that bow when he was shooting. I wish I would've had my chrono with me. Night and day difference. I'd wager his draw is around 31".

Just be content with the speed you 'can' generate.

You need to have someone with a measured 28" or 29" draw, and a good release shoot your bows if you want to know how your bows are performing. Two additional inches of power stroke is huge.

Shade - Makes real good sense to evaluate your bows for speed to give you and idea, even a rough idea. Hopefully you can continue evaluating and log your notes, as I'm sure you are. Each consecutive date would then become like a separate replication which can be averaged as raw data, if you want to take it that far.

If George suggests your bows are really good then they're good. What others say about bows goes a long ways. Like some above, speed is down on my list too, below smooth drawing, a comfortable grip, and how they feel during and immediately after release. Two of old target bows just gently rock forward after a shot. I like that.

Don't know the speed of those old recurves on my rack. Would bet what seems like the visually fastest, a Red Wing Hunter, and a low draw weight 2013 Kodiak, don't shoot 180fps with light carbons matched well to them. So, your bows have a good speed with the arrows you shot. How good - dunno, 'cause there has to be a lot of factors like string, smoothness of release, arrows etc, but there will some experts on here I'm sure.

Charles, That information will do no good for someone with a 26 inch draw. It might tell you how fast the bow can shoot, but has nothing to do with the guy shooting it. Information about how you shoot a bow is much more valuable.

“My 39 pound bow shoots an arrow at 176 at 13.5 grains per pound, but we're not comparing apples to apples - it's a SR.”

Please explain!

Personally, if I could get a buck eighty at 8.5-9 GPP and my DL, I’d be delighted; if I could get 175 at 12 GPP, I’d be even happier, but I’d still shoot 9 GPP and take whatever I could get! Unless there was some kind of weird efficiency thing going on, I guess. I’d rather have a smokin’ fast 9 GPP (assuming I’m drawing #45 or more), but it would be crazy to give up more GPP (by percentage) than you gain in fps....

Wouldn’t it??

I shoot a 435 g arrow from a Timberhawk Talon 52 @ 28

I average 182.5 Fps

With Brownell Fury string.

BATMAN:

Asked a question about determining velocity at the target. Some years ago I built a shooting machine so I could do just that. I set up two chronographs one at the target and one at the bow 16 yards away. Using a 57# recurve and 400gr. and 600gr. arrows, I discovered the 400 grain arrow lost 14% of it velocity while the 600gr. arrow lost only 7%. Which proved one of the first laws of Physic's; that an object in motion tends to stay in motion and the heavier the object is the more the law applies.

Bob

Any good bow at 40 to 45 pounds and approaching 10 gpp is more than adequate. If you just have to have more you could always get someone stronger with a longer draw length to shoot your deer for you.;^) >>>----> Ken

Shoot lighter arrow and you might even get more speed. 180 is not a speed demand but many classics I have got that out of them more than what you need.

Im with BATMAN on this one. It would be interesting to have a reading from multiple locations to have an average speed.

Down range velocity has nothing to do with the energy stored in the bow, it has everything to do with the arrow.

Can't count the number of posts ive read about this poundage bow. When asking questions about how well a rig may perform on game the poundage of the bow isnt what matters. What matters is terminal performance--- fps, arrow weight, sharp broadhead, and accuracy. The deer or pig doesnt care how much weight your pulling. 180 fps is very good-- you may want to up arrow eight just a bit. I appreciate seeing these posts with actual speeds as opposed to just saying " im shooting 40#s..."

Down range velocity has a lot to do with the arrow. An archer wanted to find his ultimate arrow for down range speed plus energy. After much practice at his anger shot he tried his test arrows. He found that he had more than enough power to kill his chronograph with one shot.

I believe if you have a bow and arrow that are ideally matched, you have the best combination for successful shooting. It also helps if the bow fits you well and you like shooting it. The speed thing, at least for me, means very little.

I talked to a younger than me fellow that had shot a number of elk with a 51@26 Schulz longbow, using cedar arrows with Hunter's Head broad heads. He got pass throughs or at least two holes, he had lots of pictures. The broadhead design and straight arrow flight is the key for us short draw guys to get maximum penetration. Although a faster bow, even a faster longbow, can put out surprising speeds with a good release at a 26" draw. I hope chronographs are more predictable than they were a few years back. At one 3d shoot two chrono owners almost got into a fist fight over who's was right and who's was wrong. They were 15 to 20 fps different. I got shocking high numbers with my Schulz Legend with cedar arrows, drawing it to [email protected]" on one of them. I was not shooting 10 grains per pound, closer to 8. About the same speed that the two wheel compounds were getting on the other. One compound shooter stated, "Everyone should know that arrows from a compound don't get up to their full speed until they are 20 or more yards out." He was a nice guy just trying to end the argument. I put in my two cents, claiming that I intentionally snapped the string to get more speed. I was just making a wise crack, but that made sense to both of them and they settled down. Note, there was no way I was going to shoot through the slower chronograph. I shot two of my bows indoors, to compare them. My yew/bamboo 68" 58@26+ pound bow and my 64@26+ Schulz. The shop owner was surprised at the speeds I was getting, but I was more surprised how close the two bows were shooting the same arrows. What I learned from that is that I need to watch my release, as I got a few shots that were as much as 8 fps slower than the average. It seemed that when I had someone standing by to check my draw length, my release was softer. Regardless of what I care about final speeds, there was something to learn from the chronograph.

You can miss faster at 180 fps..lighten up your point a bit... Just messing with you..I think that's Purty sporty fast..

I mistakenly thought ShadeHaven was making bows for Sale. Of course it only matters what your bow does at your draw.

180 fps for a hunting rig is very good. When I first got a crony years ago, I went nuts testing everything. The fastest re-curve I owned and still do was a Kmag. 50# @ 28. I drew this bow 29" with a 308 grain carbon, nib point arrow with 2" vanes. 215fps. I was very lucky that I got away with that shot and never tried any more crazy combinations.

James

“One compound shooter stated, ‘Everyone should know that arrows from a compound don't get up to their full speed until they are 20 or more yards out.’"

That post needed a “swallow your coffee before you read this” disclaimer!

Sorry, but that is exactly what he said. Notice, I did not post the speeds that my bow registered, I doubted it as well.

Dean one thing about your speeds. If I remember right you shoot fast, not really stopping at your anchor? If that's the case that will give you more speed than someone who holds at anchor. That's one of shooting fasts advantages, gives you a more dynamic, faster release.

Throw that chronograph out. The only thing that matters is if you are pleased with the trajectory of your arrows.

180 is great for hunting, .......if you shoot a hunting weight arrow.

I shoot a 2 pc ACS 51lb@28, I draw 29.5 so I'm getting 54-55lb at my draw. I shoot a 350 CX Heritage with 100gr insert , 125 tip for a total of 630 grains and it shoots exactly 180 fps

Gets great penetration one big game

I love speed with a heavy arrow. I don't agree at all when folks say speed is irrelevant. Yes you have to be able hit what your shooting at, yes that's most important! But , if you give me the choice of two bows , both of which are smooth, and both of of which I shoot really well, I'll take the one that shoots a 600+ grain arrow really fast over one that is much slower.......every time .

Brian is making bows for sale, and beautiful ones at that. I think he is just trying to establish some specs so he can answer customers questions.

sounds good but way to many variations like string material, nock fit, rest material, release and on you would need shooting machine to get a accurate finding, you may get 180 but a different string and cleaner release shooter with loser nocks could shoot up to 190 are so possible. when tested most are given at 28" draw and that alone will probable give 5 or more fps. with a shorter draw and hunting arrows 180 would work just fine. I wouldn't worry about putting a speed rating on my bows because if that is what sales the bow the buyer will probably never be happy he will always be looking for more. quiet, smooth and detail in work will out sale speed.

unfortunately if you are selling bows you need to know what they shoot as that is usually the 2nd question people ask and sometimes it was the first. from all the research I have done and my own testing this is what currently the vast majority of higher level bows are at...all shot fingers with 9gpp pulled 28" and a fast flight string take off 10 fps if using b50. these are for published results and personal testing.

recurve: 190-195fps D/R longbow: 185-190 for hill style lb: 160s

Thanks Paul, that's exactly right! I keep getting asked a it speed, that's the only reason I started the thread.

And Duvall, I'm shooting b50 on all my bows I build.

So the man is selling bows? Guy above was like, doesn't matter what his bows shoot at 28" only matters what they shoot at his draw, Geez! Seems like sometimes you just cant win!

I would try to get 200 fps out of it.,

recurve: 190-195fps D/R longbow: 185-190 for hill style lb: 160s I chrono test my bows too, those are some slow hill style bows that only shoot in the 160s with 9gpp.

deerhunt51...not sure if your comment was directed at me but the gentleman was asking how his numbers compared so I just shared what I found in my own testing so I'm not sure what you were referring about. the standard testing is done at 28" not 26". without knowing that bit of information all data I presented is useless and yes I do believe he is selling bows unless it's another shade haven.

I tested my Hill style bows a couple of years ago at a shop and the owner swore his chrono was the best he could get and tested to be dead on. I got higher numbers than that at 10 gpp with a shorter draw length than you use. Although I did get a few annoying readings that were as much as 8 fps slower, soft release issues on my part. My Robertson longbows were about 4 to 6 fps on average faster than my Hill style bows. My Grooves recurve drawn to 27" with a nearly 10 gpp was the fastest, 186 fps. The slowest was a Big River Hill style with a fast flight and 9 gpp was 166 drawn to 26.5". I gave that bow away. The recipient shot arrows through two deer this year, with a B50 string on it. Both deer were killed with 1818s 27.5" bop with Grizzly broad heads. I think the energy in the release and bow arm make more of a difference in the cast of a lighter mass bow versus a heavy handle bow. A soft release will lose as much as an inch of draw just letting the fingers straighten out. If I lock up my bow arm and take the push out of the shot I will lose about 5 or 6 fps with a longbow. With my Hoyt target bow that I still had at the time, it made no difference. I must add that not all longbows are created equal, I have given a lot of slower ones away, but those slower ones still easily put an arrow through an Iowa deer. The least important aspect of a longbow is 10 fps, but one still prefers shooting the quicker ones to the slower ones. It has been a consistent flaw in my logic since I got that Schulz that was noticeably faster than my Bear takedowns.

If your getting 180 at 26" that's pretty good for a stickbow. I doubt the recurve I'm shooting right now would do that? don't know.

That is what the numbers read. Everyone claims their chromosomes are accurate, I have my doubts. Years ago at a shoot near Sioux Falls the same bow and same arrows were tried by a number of shooters, a Bear super Grip. They tried to all shoot the same draw length, bop. The varied results were something like 20 fps from high to low. With my testing, I did get some shots in the 160s, even though I know I released with my finger touching the back of the point, which about a 26.5" draw for me. On a longbow, a power release and a soft release, coupled with a dead bow arm can give quite different numbers. They are just numbers, like the ones on the side of the bow. It was those slower than average shots that irritated me, not the number. If every shot came up with a 156, I would been happier with the results.

At this point, we would benefit greatly, in my opinion, with a comment from VIPER on what an extra inch of draw length means in terms of a bow's PERFORMANCE.

(We all know that an inch of draw length equates to 2-3 pounds of draw weight, regardless of whether it's an inch more or an inch less length.)

But what does that inch mean in terms of a bow's performance?

Mark

duvall, nope not referring to your post. I agree with your post. People want to know what to expect from any bow they are buying, usually 9-10 grains of arrow weight per pound of draw weight @ 28" of draw.

Mark -

Over 10 years ago, when I was writing the book, I did a lot of chronograph testing and with nominal weight bows. As far as speed (Vo) was concerned 1" of draw length equated to approximately 10# of draw weight. The actual number may be a few pounds up or down depending on the bow. When I stated that, a few people misunderstood what I meant. That statement is in regards to measured initial speed keeping all variables the same, except for draw length. That was done with a graduated arrow.

In other words using the same bow (type) and arrow, you would have to go up about 10# to get the same speed increase as by adding 1" of draw length.

So, the good: a longer draw length is like free horsepower; bad news is, your draw length is what it is (providing you're using decent form).

Now for the bad news. I posted the raw data either here or on ArcheryTalk, and I can't find the numbers in my notes. If anyone has them, please let me know.

Viper out.

Viper-

Does the 1"overdraw = 10# more draw wt. performance also require a 10# bump up in arrow spine?

Dan -

For shooting, yes. This was a test, so the same arrow was used. Since Vo was the only thing being measured, the actual tune effects are minimal.

Viper out.

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