Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Maybe it’s just me...

Messages posted to thread:
GF 13-Nov-17
9/10 Broke 13-Nov-17
Andy Man 13-Nov-17
woodshavins 13-Nov-17
throwback 13-Nov-17
Mpdh 13-Nov-17
Dkincaid 13-Nov-17
George D. Stout 13-Nov-17
throwback 13-Nov-17
GF 13-Nov-17
CD 13-Nov-17
deerhunt51 13-Nov-17
BATMAN 14-Nov-17
al snow 14-Nov-17
Bowlim 14-Nov-17
Babbling Bob 14-Nov-17
Pa Steve 14-Nov-17
TrapperKayak 14-Nov-17
Wild Bill 14-Nov-17
Ollie 14-Nov-17
Ken Williams 14-Nov-17
nomo 14-Nov-17
PEARL DRUMS 14-Nov-17
GF 14-Nov-17
grizz 14-Nov-17
Will tell 14-Nov-17
ny yankee 14-Nov-17
JusPassin 14-Nov-17
Shawn 14-Nov-17
RymanCat 14-Nov-17
tradmt 14-Nov-17
The END 15-Nov-17
RJH1 15-Nov-17
yahooty 15-Nov-17
yahooty 15-Nov-17
Jeff Durnell 15-Nov-17
N-idaho 15-Nov-17
charley 15-Nov-17
MGF 16-Nov-17
K Cummings 16-Nov-17
jwhitetail 16-Nov-17
From: GF
Date: 13-Nov-17




Over on Bowsite forum there’s a post by a guy who went out to a Big Deer state looking for something that would satisfy his personal 150 inch aspirations…

As it worked out… He and his buddy came across two really big box which had gotten caught in each other’s antlers and were locked up tight.

The buddy apparently made a poor shot on one of them, and the poster wrote about how (after a bit of a chase) he had “sneaked” from 50 yards out to about 30 before making a good shot on one of these bucks. Then his buddy ran up and finished the first one, that he had shot earlier.

And pretty much everybody over there is congratulating this guy as if it were some kind of accomplishment to kill a deer that had absolutely no means of escape. The closest anything came to a criticism was when somebody asked him about the quality of the meet on a buck that had been under that much stress right up until the time that it died. OP said that all meat had been donated to the local Hunters for the Hungry.

So these guys killed a couple of bucks that were all but hog-tied and went home with nothing but capes and skull plates.... and that’s to be congratulated?

From: 9/10 Broke Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Nov-17




Fair chase? Hmmm. Doesn’t sound like it .

From: Andy Man
Date: 13-Nov-17




should of left that in Vagus

From: woodshavins
Date: 13-Nov-17




They may have done those bucks a service, as they may have died a much worse death. However, certainly isn't what I would feel would constitute an "achievement" of any sort. To each his own.

From: throwback
Date: 13-Nov-17




I've known a guy for years, that drives around day and night during season and shoots deer from his truck, which is illegal here. He kills a couple big ones every year, has them mounted and tells everybody what a great hunter he is. He believes it himself and takes a lot of pride in his mounts, but I could never understand what there was to be proud of. I guess it boils down to our individual preception of what hunting is all about.

From: Mpdh
Date: 13-Nov-17




I would not have much sense of accomplishment if I shot a deer under these circumstances. Saw this happen yrs ago on a hunting show, and the guys cut the antlers with a bolt cutter so the bucks could free themselves. Doesn’t shine a very good light on hunting when an animal is shot when it’s unable to flee.

MP

From: Dkincaid
Date: 13-Nov-17




No different than a high power rifle from 100 yards away those deer do t stand a chance either but happens every day of rifle season. They did what is legal and what they wanted to do it’s not my place to judge them.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Nov-17




If I know someone is shooting them from their trucks illegally, the PGC will also know about it. They are stealing from honest hunters and hunters to be.

From: throwback
Date: 13-Nov-17




George, our DEC has been notified about him time and again and he's been caught once that I know of, but it doesn't even slow him up.

From: GF
Date: 13-Nov-17




Just FYI, fellas....

Some public-minded citizen pasted a link to this thread over on BowSite, so anything you say here can and will be used against you in the court of BowSite opinion....

Whatever.

From: CD
Date: 13-Nov-17




"The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport." Dr. Saxton Pope, 1923

Couldn't say it better myself.......

From: deerhunt51
Date: 13-Nov-17




SAD.

From: BATMAN Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Nov-17




About the only "GOOD" (?) thing out of this is that the meat went to hungry people. Certainly can't call it fair chase. More like fish in a barrel??

From: al snow
Date: 14-Nov-17




Yeah, that's crappy. But not uncommon given today's mentality and degeneration of ethics. The irony is, they probably did those bucks a kindness. The sadness is, they don't see it as a kindness, but something to beat their chests about. The new "look at how great I am" mentality.

From: Bowlim
Date: 14-Nov-17




"No different than a high power rifle from 100 yards away those deer do t stand a chance either but happens every day of rifle season."

Depends, getting within 100 yds of deer is no small thing if you go about it wrong. I'm not joking, archery is based on ambush and long seasons. If you have a week off work, and have a weapon that respects a relatively frontal approach it can be touchy. Ever read those stalking in the open plains articles in the older mags. Some guy sneaks up to the antelope, and closes the distance to 350-500 yds, makes a shot - Hero? Well it is possible to spook game from 500 yds. If you don't wear camo, drove up in a jeep, barely bent over, you could end up with a job on your hand.

" They did what is legal and what they wanted to do it’s not my place to judge them."

Well obviously some people hunt for meat, and whatever means are OK. Hunting for a trophy implies you have some kind of sport in mind, and if you hit the deer with a car, then lie to everyone about it afterwards, I wouldn't have any problem about judging the person. In any case there is no problem judging the act. Sometimes you can't know about people.

From: Babbling Bob Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Nov-17




Real sad. Hope they don't brag to their children.

Regarding our local poachers round town, don't worry about the deer a fellow living back in the backwoods without electricity or running water kills for canning for the winter or a nearby neighbor poor as a church mouse I saw doing the slow drive on the back road to town. Those folks have to eat what they shoot and catch. Both work hard in the summer and either one of them would give you their last piece of meat if you needed it. Those others that sell their meat, and don't need it, I never made friends with.

From: Pa Steve
Date: 14-Nov-17




Todays gotta have it now mentality... Look at me look at me. Doesn't matter how you get it as long as you get it. The irony of the situation is the fact that they most likely did the bucks a favor. CD said it best with Dr. Pope's quote.

From: TrapperKayak
Date: 14-Nov-17




Andy Man, LOL! Throwback, if,it,were me, I'd have had that guy investigated a LONG time ago. Call me a rat, I don't care, that is just wrong and it is also theft of a public resource. I'd have him investigated. That infuriates me. I read that post with mixed feelings. I don't see it as having done anything illegal, but I would totally agree with Andy Man and just keep my trap shut. They both had tags so no legality issue, just not a real challenging hunt. It is just what it is, two hunters stumbing on an unfortunate (for those bucks) situation. To me its not much different that slapping your tag on a big roadkill buck that someone ahead of you drove away from, donating the meat and keeping the rack. Nothing to brag about, but a story nonetheless, albiet a downer one.

From: Wild Bill
Date: 14-Nov-17




Having read the previous posts, I think many have miss read the situation. An adventure of the unusual sort.

I think it was last year that three buck were found, antlers locked together and drowned. An unusual find. Also, I recall some hunters, risking their lives to free two, elk or deer, I'm not sure which species, by trying to throw a covering over their heads to allow them to get closer and cut the antlers locking them together. The two hunters GF brought to our attention decided to kill the deer, and we all admit they were within their legal right to do so. In the telling of the story, was there any deception? I think not,and see a congratulatory statement, within the whole story being told, as seriously merited.

From: Ollie Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Nov-17




Ethics are often lacking these days. Some "bowhunters" seem to be more into "the ends justifies the means." Perhaps a "mercy" killing was called for but I would hardly tout it as some sort of personal accomplishment. In fact, I would not even count it as a bowkill. But that is just me and these days opinions such as this seem to be in a minority.

From: Ken Williams
Date: 14-Nov-17




Givers and takers. Givers are always going to give and try to do what's right , and takers are always going to take and try to get away with doing what's wrong, usually also justifying their action with lame excuses.

From: nomo
Date: 14-Nov-17




Honor, honesty and virtue are things of the past for some nowadays.

From: PEARL DRUMS
Date: 14-Nov-17




That why we have our own websites.

From: GF
Date: 14-Nov-17




I should say....

The OP on the other thread did issue a response and in thinking it through, I believe I was more troubled all of the posts “congratulating” him, though I’d say that there are still aspects of his initial account that don’t entirely add up.

Like I said... maybe it’s just me. Some folks won’t shoot a doe, some won’t shoot a fawn; I'd be more troubled by shooting a locked-up buck, just as I would if he were tangled in a fence or bogged down in the mud.

Yeah, they were probably doomed. But - locked up like that - it’s 100% natural mortality, and the Science training says you don’t intervene.... so that’s my bias here. Though I might be inclined to separate them if I could find a way to do it without getting maimed in the process...

From: grizz
Date: 14-Nov-17




Dispatching two doomed bucks is the right thing to do. It's the booyahs and posting for ataboys that makes them disgraceful.

Around here the poachers out number the hunters. As a result, they also out number the deer now.

From: Will tell
Date: 14-Nov-17




I agree with Griz, putting those bucks out of their misery was the right thing to do. Trying to make it seem sporting is a little hard to swallow.

From: ny yankee
Date: 14-Nov-17




It is kind of a unique story and they did end the animal's suffering and they did donate the (questionable?) meat to the needy, so, yah, they get an "Atta' Boy" on that, but it's nothing that makes them The Great White Hunter. But all the wanna bee's will swoon over it and make a big deal. Whatever, man.

From: JusPassin Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Nov-17




Luck is luck in many varied forms. My brother walked up on a sleeping record class buck and shot it with a shotgun.

Luck trumps skill every time.

From: Shawn
Date: 14-Nov-17




throwback he isn't a Wickham is he?? I believe the guys on bowsite did the deer a service. They would of died a horrible death. No sport in what they did but at least the bucks did nt suffer. Shawn

From: RymanCat
Date: 14-Nov-17




Matt I'm sorry I would worry about what you do and suggest you not worry about what others do that don't reflect on you as an individual. This is all BS with talking about all this we weren't there and only know whats being said and how much of it is fake news?

Do we really know????????? Can't take what others say some will agree with me and most won't. Do you think I care no I don't when you walk in other shoes then we can talk nonsense like this.

This is pathetic and probably most of it is fake news as well its the age we live in.LOL

Not trying to degrade this just my opinion whith is like you know the saying.LOL

From: tradmt
Date: 14-Nov-17




I don't see the issue. They were on a hunt,...one shoots a buck locked with another,.....the other shoots the other buck and they end up tagging two locked bucks. Sounds like quite the experience to me, deer were taken by hunters and meat utilized instead of dying of exhaustion and coyotes eating on them, and one is just as natural as the other so we can get off that stupid crap.

I didn't see where anyone was bragging about being some great hunter in that story either.

From: The END
Date: 15-Nov-17




If it was a couple of fork horns and they burned their tags on them, you guys would be thanking and congradulating them on a job well done.

From: RJH1
Date: 15-Nov-17




I did not read the original thread, but have no problem with people shooting them. I don't see the big deal, 2 guys were hunting, they saw 2 deer in a handy package and shot them. If the hunters fell in a cactus patch on their way to shoot th4e deer, would that have made it "real hunting"?

From: yahooty
Date: 15-Nov-17




Where I hunt, I would have shot them too. I don't carry a saw or bolt cutters around with me. I would have shot them (or one of them) to avoid a terrible death otherwise. Fair chase or not, I sure don't like the idea of something standing virtually helpless while a coyote starts working on its backside.

That being said, I also would not necessary go around bragging about my stalking skills, but I would tell the story from the stand point of trying to help at least one of the critters.

JMHO

From: yahooty
Date: 15-Nov-17




Where I hunt, I would have shot them too. I don't carry a saw or bolt cutters around with me. I would have shot them (or one of them) to avoid a terrible death otherwise. Fair chase or not, I sure don't like the idea of something standing virtually helpless while a coyote starts working on its backside.

That being said, I also would not necessary go around bragging about my stalking skills, but I would tell the story from the stand point of trying to help at least one of the critters.

JMHO

From: Jeff Durnell Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 15-Nov-17




I would have separated them if humanly possible, and only killed one or both if, after separation, they were doomed to die of exhaustion and stress regardless of being freed. And I would have done so whether they were spikes or their grandpappys. It wouldn't have been part of a fair chase hunt and I certainly wouldn't act at ALL as if it was. Sometimes things just need killin'... and facilitating that killing doesn't make one a successful sportsman.

From: N-idaho
Date: 15-Nov-17




did every one here go read the post on the locked buck I did not get one once of bragging on how good there stalking skills were or how good of hunters they were everyone except a few just thought is was a good thing to do and a neet thing to see. just because someone says wow good job doesn't mean you a a great white hunter who can thump his chest I think that is for this site only

From: charley
Date: 15-Nov-17




This one comes down to manpower. If you got enough help you could free then, then we can discuss ethical/unethical. Two guys without help ain't gonna do much if those deer are still strong and it's a long ride for help.

From: MGF
Date: 16-Nov-17




The reason we hunt bucks during the rut is because they get so stupid. Locked with another buck or being completely distracted by a doe...same difference.

I don't know about sportswman but any predator would jump at the chance.

From: K Cummings
Date: 16-Nov-17




"I don't see the issue. They were on a hunt,...one shoots a buck locked with another,.....the other shoots the other buck and they end up tagging two locked bucks. Sounds like quite the experience to me, deer were taken by hunters and meat utilized instead of dying of exhaustion and coyotes eating on them, and one is just as natural as the other so we can get off that stupid crap.

I didn't see where anyone was bragging about being some great hunter in that story either."

I agree.

KPC

From: jwhitetail
Date: 16-Nov-17




I don't have any issue with these guys legally killing and tagging the bucks and then donating the meat but it seems more like a chore than a hunting experience.

I knew someone that used their tag on a legal animal that was caught in a fence and still alive... he just used his tag (and rifle) to put meat in the freezer and spare the animal a protracted death... he did not say much about it to anyone else... just ended his season.

I certainly would not have posted on a forum as that is more just killing than any kind of hunting. JW





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