From: throwback
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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I want to make a selfbow at some point, but don't have any experience. Osage seems to be the hands down favorite, but we don't have it here in NY. At least I've never seen it in the woods. My goal is to make an osage selfbow some day, but I think I should start with something we have here locally as opposed to buying an osage stave and possibly ruining it in the process. We have a lot of white ash and white (American) elm here and I'd appreciate your opinions on the two, or any others, for that matter. I'm open to any and all suggestions and I appreciate any advice you're willing to offer.
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From: George Tsoukalas
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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I would prefer the elm. My site has more. Jawge http://traditionalarchery101.com
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From: Sinner
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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How about black locust? It's a pretty good wood for self bows, I believe.
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From: PEARL DRUMS
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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My preferred whites in order, for whatever its worth to you:
Hop Hornbeam hickory elm/hackberry - pretty much the same wood, same family. Sugar Maple White ash
All require the same design to make a good, durable bow.
draw length x 2 + 10",which accounts for a 4" grip and 2" fades. Limbs 1 3/4-2" width to mid limb, then straight taper to 1/2" tips.
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From: throwback
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Thanks everybody! George, I love your site. Thanks for the info and the formula, PEARL DRUMS.
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From: Jeff Durnell
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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I agree with Chris... Hophornbeam is the poor man's osage. It's good stuff. Next I'd put hickory and elm about equal and white ash following them. My experience with white ash is limited, but I've made good bows with it using it approximately as he noted for dimensions.
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From: throwback
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Is Hop Hornbeam the same tree I've always called Ironwood? I now we have that here too. Thanks, Jeff.
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From: throwback
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Should have read I know, lol.
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From: PEARL DRUMS
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Ironwood labels about 4 dozen trees in the world, incorrectly. If the bark is scaly and flakey, its HHB. Some people call blue/american beech ironwood as well.
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From: throwback
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Around here, a lot of people call Blue Beech, Iron Wood, but I know we have Hop Hornbeam here, too. I'm a long way from working on a bow, but I'm excited about it already.
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From: throwback
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Dutch Elm disease has killed a lot of our Elms. Would there be any reason not to use a standing dead Elm, as long as the wood hasn't started to rot? I thought maybe I'd cut one along with the hop Hornbeam.
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From: PEARL DRUMS
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Well, you're too late to cut now. Its not that you cant, but getting the bark and cambium off will be absolute hell. I'm in Michigan and prefer to cut in May or August. May is good because that next ring hasn't really started, but the sap is moving so the bark slips off nice. If you wait until August that ring has been grown and it solid, yet sap is still flowing and the bark will slip off. Anytime after August, regardless of temp, it will start sticking down hard. Its all based on day light.
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From: throwback
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Well, I've waited this long, I might as well wait until spring. Maybe I'll try a board bow to get some experience with it and in the meantime, I'll find a couple trees. Thank you.
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From: Jeff Durnell
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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I agree with Pearl, and would also add, I would steer clear of standing dead whitewood. While osage, locust, cedar and a few others have some ability to resist weather and rot, the whitewoods are more susceptible and degrade more quickly... and you won't know it until after you've invested time and effort... better to cut living healthy trees if possible, imo. That way you have better control of the process, material, and results... and your own accountability. I hate not knowing if a bow took set or broke because of something "I" did, or whether it was beyond my control... because, how am I supposed to know whether I can, or should, try to right whatever was wrong? But maybe I'm just a control freak. LOL
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From: PEARL DRUMS
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Board bows are nice. I'd suggest nothing but hickory if you go that route. Oak can work, but it makes much better trim and kitchen cabinets.
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From: Birdy
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Can you make a self bow out of an elm board?
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From: Jeff Durnell
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Yes, any bow that is self-backed, that is, with no functional backing added, is a selfbow. This is quite possible with a board of lumber.
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From: Jeff Durnell
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Yes.... as boards of ANY species are. Another reason I tend to shy away from 'board bows' to be made from boards I didn't create from living trees myself, or from trusted sources.... more so within the realm of the white woods.
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From: Stan
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Great advice above, these fellas have made a heck of a lot more bows than I have, but truth is ,it just depends on how badly you want to get started? Lots of things such as scrapers, rasps, draw knives, need some time to get used to. Training your eyes to see the correct bend etc. I used mostly white ash when starting because like you it was readily available.. if you can make a good bow out of ash you can probably make one out of anything. ( excluding snakey character bows) consider kids bows from broom handles, anything to start the learning process. When the time comes for you to make your own hunting bow, you will be so much farther ahead....jmo.. Have fun.
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From: George Tsoukalas
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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throwback, look for straight grained board stock. I suggest a bend in the handle board bow of 1 3/8" where the handle is the widest part of the bow. Not cut ins until you've made a few. Also no glued on handles.
There is a red oak build along on my site. Just change the width to 1 3/8" for 45-50#, if you tiller well. I like red oak. I've made lots.
Jawge
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From: Jeff Durnell
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Something to that I think OCR. I was hunting in Ohio a few years ago and the landowner dropped an elm tree that was easily 3 times larger in diameter than any I'd ever seen. Healthy too if I remember right. I just had no way to care for it, so it heated his home.
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From: throwback
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Date: 01-Nov-17 |
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Thanks a lot everybody, I really appreciate your help. I'm going to re read your posts and decide where to start from there. I may start with a board bow and cut an Elm too and try to get it dry enough to work on over the winter, then cut some HHB in the spring. I probably wont do anything until after deer season. You guys may be creating a monster, lol. Thanks again.
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From: throwback
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Date: 02-Nov-17 |
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There's a big Elm in the hedgerow behind my house. It's been there for 30 years that I know of and it was a big tree back then. It dropped a big limb 10 or so years ago, but I wasn't thinking bows at the time. The limbs on this tree are bigger than most of the Elms I see these days. Wish I knew just how old it is.
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From: Michael Schwister
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Date: 02-Nov-17 |
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In WI we called HHB "ironwood". That is what I would recommend in leiu of osage for your situation. Pignut hickory would generally be my white wood of choice. I have all three growing on my property in VA. Make sure you bless the tree with tobacco before you kill it. Big medicine.
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From: throwback
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Date: 02-Nov-17 |
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Michael, I've heard of that. How would one go about blessing the tree with tobacco? And thanks for your advice.
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From: George Tsoukalas
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Date: 02-Nov-17 |
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Throwback, the other possibility is cut an elm, hickory or oak sapling and rough it out. While waiting start a board bow.
http://traditionalarchery101.com/saplingbow.html
Jawge
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From: throwback
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Date: 02-Nov-17 |
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Thanks Jawge, I was thinking about a sapling bow, too. I've got so many ideas running through my head I don't know where to start, lol. I've been looking through your site and soaking up the information there, too. Thank you.
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From: PEARL DRUMS
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Date: 03-Nov-17 |
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Ill add some confusion, :). Saplings are hands down my favorite way to build white bows. I have at least 2-3 HHB and elm saplings in my stash at all times.
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From: throwback
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Date: 03-Nov-17 |
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When you guys mention sapling bows, what diameter are you talking about? Something big enough to get a fairly flat back out of, or using something smaller and going with a more rounded back?
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From: fdp
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Date: 03-Nov-17 |
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My sapling bows are made from stock that is 1.5 to 2" in diameter. I leave the back alone.
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From: throwback
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Date: 03-Nov-17 |
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Thank you both, I appreciate it and thanks again everybody.
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From: badger
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Date: 03-Nov-17 |
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Straight grained white oak boards are not hard to find and make a nice dependable bow, treat it about the same way you would hickory.
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From: PEARL DRUMS
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Date: 04-Nov-17 |
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2-4". The larger the sapling the more flat the back will be, I use that info to decide what size per species I cut. High tension strength wood benefits from a round back and a tempered belly. Elm and hickory to name a few. So smaller trees for high tension woods are nice.
All bow woods benefit from tempering. Even yew and osage love it. Thanks Marc :)
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From: Bernie P.
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Date: 04-Nov-17 |
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I roughed one out from a maple stave a while back.Gotta get back to it one of these days.
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From: RonG
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Date: 04-Nov-17 |
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Throwback, I'm glad to see you getting excited about this.
Look at all the advice you have received before even cutting anything, you will be a selfbow junkie before long. LOL!
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From: throwback
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Date: 05-Nov-17 |
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Thanks Ron. I'm trying to pick my questions, so I don't drive everybody crazy too early on, lol.
Right now I'm studying up on tempering. Very interesting. If I ever get over the crud I have, I'm going to get back out hunting and looking at some saplings and trees. Thanks again everybody, I appreciate it.
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From: throwback
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Date: 06-Nov-17 |
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Rooty, I saw and drooled over that one in the selfbow thread, too. Thank you.
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