I have a question. I have been trying to tune a Hoyt Satori. I am getting porpoising and can't seem to get my arrows to shoot straight no matter what I try. I called Lancaster Archery and talked with a rep there. I told him my problem, and he said I have a shooting problem. He told me when a person shoots an arrow that you should not be able to see anything but the arrow hitting the target. That if I was seeing porpoise I was peeking and I needed to work on my form. He told me I should get someone to stand by and watch the arrow flight. I have been shooting a bow all my life and have never heard of that! I have heard of peeking, but a person shouldn't be able to see the arrow porpoise? Bull crap! What do you guys think about that? When you tune your bow you always get someone to watch your arrow flight because all you can see is your arrow hit the target? I'm not saying that It's not possible for me to have a problem with form. But I have tuned bows myself many times with no one around but me to watch arrow flight. What do you guys think of that? Maybe I am wrong and he is right but I think a person shooting an arrow shoud be able to watch arrow flight without peeking.?

Of course you can see your arrow flight if it is porpoising. Not sure where he got that. Maybe that's the Olympic style or something.

Maybe it’s a compound thing?

I think you can cause yourself a problem trying too hard to get a good look at it. And of course you should never, EVER see it if it just ain’t happenin’... So no you “shouldn’t” be able to see it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not possible....

Slow-mo video is probably the best thing that ever happened to stuff like this. You can set your phone up and then shoot, or you can grab an assistant, but 30 (or however many!) frames/second will show you PLENTY of what you’ve been missing in real-time...

It depends on how far you are shooting and how low you anchor. If you are not peeking you don't see the arrow very well until it rises up to your eye/sight line. If I am focusing hard on the spot maintain form and don't drop bow hand,I don't see my arrows at 10 and under. They seem to be rising up to the spot and in my focus near 20 yards. It is probably different for most folks and some probably use peripheral vision a lot more. Of course old eyes don't shift focus very quick either.>>>----> Ken

A true one direction/up and down porpoising is usually the nocking point.>>>----> Ken

grip issue

Ilf bows I would start a 3/4 nock point as opposed to 5/8. I did this because of an instruction sheet by bieter a rest that I was playing with recommendations was 20mm. I can certainly see when arrow flight is off. Keep tuning it will come. Rooty

It can be caused by unequal pressure on the string by one finger over the other.

Try shooting four arrows

1 index finger increased pressure

2 middle finger increased pressure

3 ring finger increased pressure

4 equal pressure with index and middle, and slighlty less with the ring finger

See what your arrow does.

It can also be caused by torque of the hand in putting downward pressure on the arrow.

https://youtu.be/BSJ6-HjPMTM

I'm not sure what he was saying to you but obviously we see the arrow flight. Liek 2Bears said, most times porpoising is caused by improper nocking point height. Form and pressure can play a role but if it's consistent then it's likely a nocking point issue.

Porpoising is a knock point issue. Move it up or down. Spine is a fishtailing issue. Spine is either too strong or too weak. Jawge

What George said

Boy Lancaster Archery need to hire people that are involved in archery, are you sure you didn't speak to the janitor!

As has been said porpoising is usually always nock point location. If you nock under the nock point the diameter of the arrow shaft can effect location of nock point. Taking that into account start your location 1/8" above square measured to the bottom of the arrow nock plus the diameter of the arrow nock. Example if the arrow dia. is 5/16" add that to 1/8" (2/16")= 7/16" and use that as a starting point.

Bob

Make sure you're not gripping the handle too tightly and/or torquing it.

If form is good and consistent, arrow porpoising is likely caused by unbalanced limb strength relative to your holds on the bow and string. If the bottom limb is too strong for instance, it will pull the arrow nock down during the draw, below perpendicular to the shelf. Upon release, it's thrown back upwards, inducing porpoising in its flight. Moving the nock point up or down the string like George said affects the dynamic balance and can help, but sometimes it's not enough if the imbalance is too great.

I have been moving the nock point. I had the tiller set at even but the rep I mentioned told me me with 3 under there is more pressure on the lower limb and the tiller should be set with the bottom limb 1/8 to 1/4 out from top limb. So now top limb measures 7 inches. And bottom limb is 7 1/8. I don't know about these ILF bows. I may go back to a all wood bow. LOL

If your shooting three under have the tiller at even. That's what I hear at TT.

I work on NP's first. Shoot a fletched and a bare. Bare above the fletched raise the point. If it's below lower. Start high. PM me if you have an issue here.

Then work on spine. If your right handed and the bare shaft is left of the fletched your stiff. And vice versa.

www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html Click on 'download printable version'. The broadhead tuning is the best!!!!!!!!!!!!

When you called Lancaster did you ask for a 'trad' guy? You got a compounder and they know nothing about archery. They know compounder and compounders don't EVER see the most beautiful thing in archery. Picking a spot on a target and seeing that arrow fly from your hand to that spot. As evidenced by his stupid a@@ comment.

Don't get frustrated by the tuning issue. ILF bows blow the pants off wood bows. A little knowledge goes a long way. I'm betting if I could choose the arrow and the rest/strike plate, I could tune you with you shooting 6 good form shots. Not fine tune, but get that porpoising out.

I did it with SR limbs that are notoriously hard to tune.

Bowmania

I think there was a misinterpretation of what was said myself. That being said, Bowmmania is right. Start with that information and work from there.

Even

"I think there was a misinterpretation of what was said myself."

That's what I was going to suggest also. Maybe he meant you shouldn't be seeing the arrow porpoising because it shouldn't be, and all you should see is a straight arrow impacting the target. Plus maybe suggesting you "might" be peeking which could cause your bow hand to move and affect your form. ?

paper tune

and ask to talk to a different rep!

I can see when my arrow is not flying right,, sometimes it is me,, and sometimes i need to change something,, if it was flying perfect the day before,,,,, probably my form,, if it never flew good, then maybe needs some adjustment ,,,

No, His exact words were, (You should not see anything but your arrow hitting the Target. If you see anything else you are peeking.) May be he meant it another way. But that is what he said. Doesn't matter, I will get the bow shooting. Thanks for all the suggestions.

You should see nothing but the back of your fletching. Jawge

That is correct George, and if the back of the fletching is waving up and down you should see that.

You should. Jawge

imo I think the guy at the shop was thinking archers paradox? I see my arrows kick left and right, up and down. and in a circle like a skwerl with a broken tail....ron

ron, that's not archer's paradox. That's corkscrewing which is a combination problem of nock point and spine.

Rather than trying to figure out what the person was saying just trouble shoot.

You should see nothing but the back of your fletching as the arrow flies.

Jawge

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