I opened up a can of gasket lacquer I acquired some years ago and its the bad batch that crackles when it dries, rats. This issue drove a good friend of mine to quit making arrows years ago.

Have they solved this problem? If so, is it safe to buy it again?

The ones I have been getting are good. Haven't had any problems.

Michael

OMG just call the ones with the cracked finish frosted and shoot 'em...

I gave up on gasket lacquer a long time ago. Fumes, cost, and too much trouble. Helmsman Spar urathane, gloss in a can, three coats wiped on with a rag, when dry polish with 0000 steel wool, wipe on johnson paste-floor wax. Easy, fast, cheap, durable, and absolutely weatherproof. Duco cement for glue ($1 at the dollar store)

I've been using it for the last three or four years. No problems with it. I just dipped two dozen shafts last night, easy and quick.

I had bad luck twice in a row and stopped using it. I'm not a patient guy and when I get junk product once or twice I will never go back to it.

I do almost exactly as Mr. Schwister.

Gasket lacquer has in my opinion never been a quality arrow finish, yes its quick however its so thick and dries so fast it does not stick to the shaft. It just lays on the surface of the shaft, when the shaft gets a scratch moisture will get under it and it will peal off. Like pealing a banana.

Bob

That to.

Yes, its not the best, but I find it acceptable. I'm also all set up for it and like that quickness.

It seems it may be safe to buy some again.

Aromakr...didn't you recommend a product made by Daley's? I used it and have had great results.

Well kustom king uses lacquer I use lacquer automotive lacquer k i thin it down then dip it they run off and work great any thick finish is not good .i have had great results with it you just have to know How to use it

It is stinky and and the fumes are bad I use it outside only if you thin it down it will run off and just steel wool them I mostly put 3 or 4 coats on

Lacquer will last a long time shelf life I have some that is 25 to 30 years old it's still good

hvac tech. There is a huge difference between Automotive lacquer and gasket lacquer. You cannot compare the two as equals.

Bob

arowmakr it is still a lacquer base . it does not matter if you use polyurethane or any type of thick finish it is on the wood not into the wood . that is why i use it thin it drains off and does soak into the wood the idea there is a big difference between the two types of finish i do not know what it is and i doubt you know either .

Joe, gasket lacquer has additives that make it quite different than automotive lacquer. It dries in seconds and has to be handled differently as well. The quick drying is one of the things that make it both attractive to some, but it also has it's down side as aromakr said. Bob's probably made arrows numbering in the hundreds of thousands so he knows whereof he speaks.

hvac tech: Gasket lacqure is about as thick as Grease, the shaft is pushed through a hole in a "Gasket" into the goo, then its pulled up through the gasket again squeegeeing the excess goo off. It is dry by the time its pulled through the gasket. Because of its thickness it doesn't have time to bond with the shaft it just lay's on the surface which is fine as long as the lacquer film is intact, when its compromised it will begin to peal.

I have used industrial lacquer in my arrow making since about 1950, so I know how regular lacquers work. All of my crown dipping is lacquer, the clear finish I use on the foreshaft is a tung oil base product.

Bob

Well automotive lacquer drying time has a lot to do with the thinner and the humidity i like it i never had problem using it gasket lacquer is ok i have some arrows here that have it on and it is fine .a lot of this comes down to personal preference i tried polyurethane it dries slow .it has more flex to it . but to say gasket lacquer is not a good finish i disagree .

Well they are not equal they are two different products but some like the gasket lacquer i guess or they would not sell it . the automotive stuff i just come up with with on my own account . it worked so i use it .then everybody started saying poly well ok but it takes longer to dry so whatever you want use it.

Kelly, of Arrows by Kelly posted an in depth tutorial on using gasket lacquer. I use different things, just trying them out, but gasket lacquer is nice for the speed and I can use acrylic paints for crowns and crests and go over everything with gasket lacquer. I don't have the issues others talk about.

Paul were can i see the tutorial at i would like to read that . i personally could care less what guys use it all comes down to just that personal preference . i have a good friend that puts string wax on his arrows never has had a problem yet .

Gasket Lacquer

The cracking issues come from operator error. Usually too few of coats and/or too thick. Nitrocelleous lacquer is the trade name for gasket or coating lacquer. what distinguishes it from other nitrocelleous lacquer one can buy locally is viscosity, ie. thickness of the paint. GL is very thick and the rubber gaskets only applies a very very thin coat. Far too thin for waterproofness from one or two coats.

Furthermore, Nitrocelleous Lacquer is not waterproof. So insufficient number of coats appropiately applied renders the finish to cracking as the wood contained swells from moisture penetrating the finish, thus cracking it.

Trust me when I tell you this from over 40 years of using GL for wood shafting. 7-8 coats applied over 2-3 days is way better than 2-3 coats applied over the course of 8-10 hours.

Mind you am not talking about thickness of the finish on the shaft because that is goverened by your gasket and the condition of the hole. The new hole will apply the thinnest coat, gradually applying thicker ones as the hole wears. Yes each subsuquent dipping thru gasket applies a little more finish and that finish needs enough time to throuroly dry/cure before going thru the gasket again.

Have found over the years that at least 8-10 hours dry/cure time to be the best if one lives where it is not too humid. If you live in humid conditions better have a de-humidifier in the room where one is dipping.

Now as far as the viscosity of GL is concerned using it straight from the can sure works but have found it to be much harder to pull back thru the gasket, especially when doing full length dips. Locally bought NL works great for the dip/drip dry method but is too thin unless one want to run it thru the gaskets 20 times(too much wear on the hole but does work). So I've found that by mixing it one to one I get a good viscosity where the shaft withdraws easily yet sufficient finish is applied in 7-8 coats.

How much is enough? Well experience tells me plus the wear on the hole in gasket. If using a new hole one might need 8-10. If using a partially worn out hole 5-7, if worn out 3-4. It becomes a feel deal after a while but just remember more coats is better.

Regarding wear on hole that comes from roughness of shaft material. When I have used GL for crown dip on aluminums could never use a new hole. The pressure of the rubber wiped nearly all the finish of. Had to use an almost worn out hole. On Aluminums, fiberglass or carbons since waterproofness is not an issue only sufficient coats to get a uniform color are needed, usually two.

When using GL on wood the smoother the wood surface the less wear of hole but mind you there is always some wear because GL/NL raises the grain of the wood during the drying/curing process. This is why I put on two coats, then dry, then use 0000 steel wool to remove this raised grain and make the shaft smooth again. Then another 1-4 coats can be applied before using the steel wool again before final coat(if you want some shine to your finish-if not then steel wool after final coat has dried/cured for a dull finish.

Back in the 80's I used lacquer from a paint store... 3 parts lacquer to 1 part thinner. Dip and hang, always the front of the arrow down. White/or tinted lacquer - 3 parts lacquer to 1 part 1/2 thinner/half reducer. Crested with jig head paint.

Well then lacquer is lacquer other than viscosity .the way i do mine is thin it to run off coats that dry quick then i buff of some to make them smooth . so it is all in how the same product is applied well maybe poly is better to seal out moisture then.

Another note in colorado youdo not have the humid air we have here in the east

hal900 i sent an email to one of the suppliers of both kinds of lacquers to see if there is any difference in the two and if so what is it .

The paint store I got my lacquer at is still there, may have to get some and try it again :) Thanks for your posts hvac.

Solve all your problems by being a fair-weather archer, as I am. I don't hunt or shoot with a bow in the rain or mist.

I use "brushing lacquer" applied with a brush. When it is dry, I may run fine steel wool over it lightly, then buff the shaft by sliding it back and forth vigorously through a rag held around it.

One coat looks good and lasts as long as the arrow lasts. Never cracks and the arrows never swell because, as I said, I don't shoot in the rain.

Kind of the same thought that kept Howard Hill from cresting his arrows. He considered them missiles, not heirlooms.

A I have sprayed tens of thousands of gallons of lacquer professionally and can assure you all lacquer is not the same. Nitrocellulose, acrylic, catalyzed lacquer, precat lacquer, hell there are even waterborne lacquers. They are not all the same, and not all compatable. Carry on

Ok well then that answers that question thanks for the post . that is very interesting maybe i need to do some more research on this,

All "lacquer" is not the same, but Nitrocellulose is real lacquer, all the other products are Frankensteins to do something that Nitro can't do, like be super for water, UV, cross-linked, whatever.

One thing about Nitro is that it burns in on recoats, it makes a chemical bond. Not just adhession. With the right product, your cement will burn in the fletches. Not that there aren't 20 other ways to skin a cat.

Nitro is banned for commercial use in some places, is highly flammable (at a minimum), and it is often sold as musical instrument lacquer.

I was told by someone in the archery supply business that gasket lacquer is the product used to coat wooden pencils. Don't make it true and it was fifteen years ago but it is interesting.

That long post on instructions using GL was by Kelly, from Arrows by Kelly... just so you know.

Well that is interesting i read were lacquer was used on model T fords , it is an old type of paint that i am sure

If you research gasket lacquer and you ask the folks that produce it they will tell you that it is used to coat wooden pencils.

http://www.tntechcoatings.net/lacquer-gasket.htm

When the gasket lacquer cracks I have found that the cause is the gasket being worn out letting too much finish to get on the shaft. I change gaskets every 50 arrows or so.

It all comes down to one thing time . time is money so with industry building arrows they want fast drying products so lacquer was it .i would say rose city uses a lacquer product .i will check

Lacquer has been the go too finish for wood arrows since as long as I can remember, and probably into the 1920's. It has many great qualities, dries fast, gives a great smooth finish when dipped, and probably the most important it keeps its pigmentation when thinned for dipping. The disadvantage is its high VOC's, because of that Nitrocellous lacquers have been band in several states.

When Polys are thinned they become translucent.

Bob

Early to mid 80's was probably when I first started making my own wood arrows and we dipped them in lacquer. In a friends basement, lucky we didn't blow the place up and got higher than a kite.

those were the days :)

Yes they do Joe. Rooty

I am no scientist And I don't want fumes so I go the slow way with spar urethane and wipe on poly thinned. Rooty

Jow Howland up in Minnesota has like a 100 year old arrow tumbler. He puts in about 100 shafts, then pours in the finish. Tumbles for how ever long they need to and out comes shafts perfectly finished... kinda slick

I got into a conversation with a employee at Tri City paints in San Diego. They supply automotive paints and finishes to the auto repair shops. He took me into the back where the mix paints and showed me a drum of lacquer on a machine that was mixing it to remove the thinners. This drum was going to a golf shaft manufacturer. He even had a gasket system he used for testing. Unfortunately for me the smallest quantity I could buy was a 55gal drum. He claimed the product started out as automotive Laquer. Now days auto finishes are waterbased in Ca. Probably sent the golf shaft manufacturer to Mexico, no EPA there.

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