I see adds in the classifieds PayPal add 3%. I would think it's worth the 3% to get the funds right away and not wonder if the deal is really closed. I've read threads where someone said they had a committment by a purchaser and never heard from them again. I even saw an add in the classifieds that said PayPal only and then said add 3%. I've never sold a bow, but I've sold cars, trucks and motorcycles and I'd be tickled to death to get my asking price less 3%.

I have a taxidermy business and take credit cards. It cost me 2.75% to swipe a card. This year I'm passing it on. I'm tired of eating it. I can write it off as business loss but I still don't like it.

Other places have cash and credit prices. I can take a vacation on lost income from credit cards.

I know this isn't exactly like selling something on the classifieds but I understand why guys charge it.

Negotiate. It goes something like this. I'll give you the asking price; you eat the PP fees.

Reply is, yes or no. Counter is, okay I'll take it, or no, I'll pass.

I don't see any big deal here.

Paypal is actually 2.9% plus .30 cents per transaction. It provides the buyer certain protections. Well worth the "3%".

The 3% is a good thing for the seller and buyer. The seller gets their money immediately and the buyer has some protection that they will get the item as advertised. Charging the buyer the 3% is something that got started and has spread. When setting the price, why not set it so PayPal fee is included. When selling something for $100, is $3 a deal breaker? Not for me on either side of the issue. When I sell something, I plan to eat the 3% and not get potential buyer PO'd over a couple of bucks.

Yes, set your price and don't expect the buyer to calculate what you really want. And like John said, 3% shouldn't be a deal breaker either way.

Some times there isn't 3% profit in a deal. Sad but true with this slow market.

I would rather wait three days for a money order if I am selling. If I am buying I don't mind paying the 3% because I have to drive to town to buy a money order, then mail the thing. Plus there is some protection for me as a buyer with paypal.

Your right. It's nit picking. Rooty

Actually i believe Paypal is charging 3.5 % now. I figure that into my price whenever i make a deal selling. Paypal is safer on both ends. I almost refuse to send payment in the mail because i know the post offices are in a major turnover of employees. I routinely receive neighbors mail and have complained several times. They do good with any mail that has tracking but letters are hit or miss.

I don't deal with people who want me to pay the 3%. I don't do that when I sell, and Paypal's protection is worth the charge. Look at what your credit cards charge for just their service...it's more than 3%. As a seller, credit cards are easy money, as many folks don't even carry much cash anymore, so less than 3% is a deal to get the sale. And FYI, I don't....and won't send money orders to anyone. No protection for the buyer at all, even with postal money orders.

I usually eat it, buying or selling. Some people send the 3% even when it is not asked for

I usually ask for friends and family. I price most items to where i barely break even as is. Last fella i dealt with didnt do f&f after it was agreed upon. I was pretty pissed. I lost $20 as to where i had planned on breaking even on the deal. A 20 doesnt break me, but when i offer a good deal as is, i dont plan to come out of pocket for paypal fees. Prt of the deal was free shipping. O well, lesson learned.

Right on George. Cheap plicks. Rooty

May all employers should require their employees to accept their wages by PayPal.

I have a taxidermy business and probably have 75% of the business on cards. I eat the percentage. I just figure if I get paid faster, it is worth it to me.

That's funny, or it would be if it made any sense. I take it Jim you don't like Paypal, or think they shouldn't charge for their service? Or is it you think the buyer should have to pay for your protection with Paypal? I guess that 3% may get you a coffee at the local diner eh?

No George, I don't think it's funny at all. I actually thought it was ridiculous. I like PayPal just fine. By the way, it's the buyer who gets the (most) protection. I just don't see an issue here. What makes the difference if a guy wants to add it or not? You either agree to the deal or not.

This argument/discussion comes up now and again and I just can't wrap my mind around the issue. Buy it or don't--it's that simple.

Oh... and one other thing. Often times, in the classifieds, when I buy something, I'll send folks the extra to cover those fees.

I like using Paypal and will cheerfully pay the 3% for the convenience and security. Nothing against any sellers I deal with but I'd rather not give my CC # to more people than necessary. Paypal charges me, credits them, and they're big enough to have a top-notch security system and staff.

Fees explained.

https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/article/what-are-the-fees-for- paypal-accounts-faq690

No PayPal doesnt charge you and pay them. PayPal just sends your authorization and banking info to their bank. That's why some bank won't honor PayPal if the sellers bank is in a high risk country for credit fraud. I use credit cards and PayPal as long as the person getting the service pays the fees. If you except PayPal or in some people's case credit cards you're getting more business for excepting cards and more bidders by excepting pay pal. So ur making money from it, more than enough to make up for the fees.

I believe you can "gift" money, and there is no fee... You send money as a "gift to the recipient. At least, that used to be an option. I don't know if it still is...

IMO, it benefits the seller as much as the buyer. The seller gets a sale that he may or may not have gotten otherwise. 3% of $1000 is only $30, if your that tight on the sale price maybe you'd best keep it.

With my work schedule, getting to the post office and standing in line is a PIA, I usually add the 3% without being asked, convenience is well worth it and unless I know the guy, I don't want to do the Friends and Family deal! I agree with you though, especially on a cheaper item!

I agree with Sinner. Gift the funds and there is no fee.

George is right on. The money orders scare me.

I can see the sellers point that they are paying out, and in addition the buyer may DK them, and get a refund. I don't trust paypal as a seller.

Usually for bows I buy, I do the gift thing. It isn't a scam, I trust people. So far so good. If I trust them that much, they are my friend until proven otherwise. Which would be an ouchy.

You shouldn't loose too many sales for charging what something is actually worth. Let us say one is selling something for cost, as was mentioned. If that is for real, and not some moonshot number, then that is an excellent deal for someone. And in reality it is only cost if you factor in your fees, postage, time etc...

What I don't get is the heat. Add the percentage on, gross it up. Why rail at the reality of commerce. You are hurting yourself if your only reason for not taking PP is because you don't like the fee. Not a mature position.

I asked this question out of curiosity. I'm not complaining about the 3%. I've done a number of transactions here and paid the 3%. On a $400 transaction it's only $12. My take is it's easier and faster for both parties and gives the buyer less time for buyer's remorse to set in and change his/her mind. And BTW all my dealings here have been positive.

The fee is part of doing business. The seller "should" be prepared to pay it since they are using the service.

If it kills the deal for the buyer then it must not have been much of a deal.

I will NOT do F&F or gift. Why? On top of the loss of protection, my account is a business account. I am not about to risk PayPal's wrath over somebody not wanting to pay for the service they are using.

Regarding protection. There isn't much seller protection, but there is a bunch of buyer protection. I have been on the side of the seller when I did nothing wrong the buyer did everything wrong and it still cost me money to close the complaint.

Dan I've heard of those situations. Unfortunately there will always be unscrupulous people around. I guess they have poor ethics. I don't worry too much about being protected when I make a purchase from the classifieds here. I like PayPal because I'm lazy and want my bow in a hurry :). It saves me a trip to the PO. It saves the seller a trip too and hopefully expedites the shipping of the bow.

My PayPal account can only link to my credit card. They say my bank is already linked to the maximum number of PayPal accounts allowed. That's fine when I'm the buyer but as a seller it seems to leave my money tied to my credit card account.

I'm new to using PayPal and need to research a bit. Could be that I don't understand it. :^/

"I agree with Sinner. Gift the funds and there is no fee." No fee but no protection.

Materials, lights, heat, packaging, insurance, labor, etc are all costs of doing business. So are transaction fees - even on casual transactions. Simply build in the bottom sale price.

I use paypal and "eat" the cost. I do not even entertain a guy who is selling and adds the cost to the price of a bow. It's annoying. Keep it simple and post a TYD price. I also don't entertain guys on ebay with inflated shipping cost.

Way better than the 25% charged by shops when selling by consignment.

Excellent point Raghorn

I've heard if you send the seller the money marked "friends and family" he doesn't get charged the fee however you have no recourse against him if the deal goes bad. I had a seller recently ask me to do that and I agreed if he agreed to stand behind his sale as a gentleman if it went wrong.

Deal was perfect from my part and I left him good feedback but apparently he got his shorts in a wad and didn't leave me squat for feedback.

I like PayPal. When I'm buying, I offer to add the 3% if the seller will accept PayPal. When I'm selling, I just factor the 3% seller's fee into my asking price.

It's your choice to have papal for easy money than why should anyone have to pay your fees that is just WRONG!!!!!!!

Gee Whiz! I still don't get it. Now it's just "WRONG"? Every thing we all buy in the retail and service industry already has a 3% increase in cost built in to the consumer to cover credit card fees. I haven't heard anyone complain about that being WRONG. I'll bet you still use credit cards too.

I still say it's no big deal. Either buy it or don't.

True. Sending the payment as friends and/or family avoids the fee to the seller. It also voids all protections to the buyer, and it is simply dishonest.

The fee charged the seller provides a substantial benefit. He gets the money right now and it's guaranteed.

A fair number of sellers now do try to pass the fee off onto the buyer. I agree with George, and maybe Jim Casto as well. I will not pay the fee as a buyer. I'll reduce my offer by the fee amount or more or simply decline the deal.

IMO, sellers would do better to just incorporate the fee into their asking price and simply not mention it all. Negotiate from there.

When selling a bow I take into consideration the PayPal fee when setting my price. When purchasing from the classifieds I pass on anything for sale that includes +3% PayPal fee.

I really let this kind of stuff get under my skin. Don’t know why… it’s no skin off my nose, but I just can’t wrap my mind around some of the thinking on this subject.

George Stout wrote in this thread:

“I don't deal with people who want me to pay the 3%….”

Then, over in the “I would like your opinion thread” he writes:

“Just raise the price to cover it, rather than worry about who pays what. People understand inflation. A $300.00 fee would only be $9.00 anyway. Just raise the price to $310.00 and you will be 70 cents ahead after the fee.”

I guess it’s okay to pay the 3% as long as nobody is telling you you’re paying the 3%, but it’s not okay to pay the 3% if a guy is telling you you’re paying the 3%?

My head is still spinning. Gee Whiz!

Jim. It's the principle of the thing. Paypal charges the seller for the service rendered. The seller receives a real benefit for the service. Why should I as a buyer have to pay the fee charged the seller. If a seller tells me that, I will decline the deal.

True, if the seller just raises his price by the fee amount, but doesn't mention the fee, I won't know whether 'I'm paying it or not. I can live with that. Regardless, I regard the asking price as a starting point and negotiate from there. If the seller and I can arrive at an agreeable price, we have a deal. If we can't, we don't. The same holds for when I'm the seller.

I disagree with most who have replied, it is the buyer that receives the real benefit. He gets buyer protection and if he wants it he should pay for it. when i sell a bow, I am not trying to make a bunch of money as I am not a dealer, generally I seem to sell at a loss. I will take paypal but I am not taking the hit on the price. When I buy I, if I use paypal I will generally kick in the 3 percent. The buyer is the one who doesn't have to go to the post office and gets protection, so they can pay for it. As a seller, I have to mail the bow, so I will be at the post office anyway, and I get little protection if the buyer tries to screw me with paypal

I really appreciate you trying to explain it to me, but I've got to tell you... my head is still spinning. lol lol

As long as the seller deceives you, you're okay. Just as soon as he's open with you, you have a principle?

Lord, please help me here.

Jim - hold a pillow on the wall before banging your head - helps. ;^)

Thanks for the advice, Steve. I think I do need that pillow.

Orion and I have been in this Paypal rhubarb before. He's a good egg but I guess I'll never figure it out. :^)

If you do not use PayPal you may get 5 or 6 bids and sell for 175. If you use it youll get more bids and may sell for 300. On a private sale like our clssifieds you sell faster because alot of guys wont buy with anything but paypal. The seller makes more money by using it so he's the one it's helping most.

Some random thoughts on the 3% paypal thing:

As a buyer I when I see the paypal add 3% thing I always think "Do I really want to deal with this skinflint??" Usually the answer is no.....Why pay more to give the seller their money faster??......As a seller I figure it's the price of convenience for me, what's 3% in the big scheme if things??? Most of the time when trading used I'm either giving or getting a heck of a deal when compared to new so I'm OK with the 3% as the cost of doing business ...... If 3% is hurting you when trading in bows with fellow trad-bow guys, you should probably get out of the bow trading game and spend more time at your paying gig......

I agree, Spookinelk. If I see "add 3% for paypal", I would offer USPS money order. If they say no, I simply look elsewhere. I just don't feel like adding the 3% for their benefit of getting the money quicker. There really is no benefit for me. Using a USPS money order only adds 2-3 days more time.

So, if a guy doesn't tell you he's added in the Paypal fees, he's an okay nice guy? If he tells you up front, if you pay with Paypal there will be an additional 3% added to the cost, he's a skinflint?

For their benefit? How about the protection offered to the buyer? The buyer is guaranteed the bow will arrive and it will be as described. If not, the buyer gets his money back and the seller is held completely responsible.

Pillow? Where in the world is that pillow? :^)

It is funny that these "buyers" act like the seller is getting some great deal by getting to pay paypal fees. If the seller takes paypal, and the buyer doesn't want to pay the fees, tell the seller you will do it friends and family. Otherwise, it would seem that the buyers are just "skinflints", wanting the protecton that paypal offers for nothing. Haha

I've never had a problem, Jim Casto Jr., with any of the sellers on here sending a bow, and getting it "as described". The only time I would feel nervous is if the seller is brand new on here or doesn't have much of a history. A USPS money order can be cashed at the post office, and I've never had a problem on the seller's side, either, by receiving a money order. I guess I'm saying I reserve paypal ONLY for people I just don't trust. I don't feel I need "protection" from my fellow LWer's.

There is a fee for Postal Money order.

I usually add 3% to the price of the item i am selling.

The seller should be happy to pay the 3% knowing they have protection.

Suppose to be buyer. Damn spellcheck writing out "my" words lol.

The use of PayPal allows Buyers to pay with credit cards as well as cash from ones checking account. For this service to the Buyer they charge the Seller 2.9% of the total selling price including any shipping/insurance costs + 30 cents per transaction. Finally the most important part of this transaction is Buyer Protection. Notice that word, Buyer-all the guarantees are there for the Buyer’s benefit, yet the Seller has to pay the cost for the Buyers Guarantee.

Finally this talk about the Seller getting his money right away-that is not true. Sure it shows a dollar amount in ones account but that money is not available to Seller until transaction shows Cleared. At that point the Seller can request the money to be transferred to its checking account, which usually takes 3 business days. Then he finally has the money, which could be 3-5 days or more after the sale was made and many days after the item is shipped. Personally I’ve had cases where the Buyer had the bow a day or two before I had the money in my checking account. Even the the Buyer still has the Guaratee. For whatever reason the Buyer can request a refund and the Seller has to refund the Total price so the Seller ends up paying the fee anyway. Buyer gets money back, Seller gets bow back all for the cost/loss to Seller of the 2.9% + 30 cent per transaction Fee.

What is so hard about giving me a price for your bow, to my door? I don't want a bow price, +3%, plus shipping and handling fees, plus gas money for you to go to the post office, oh plus $5 because you need a new roll of packing tape. I don't want to hear about all your expenses and problems. Give me a final price to my door. Like I said, I will not entertain anyone asking for +3%. It is not the principle, it is just irritating.

Exactly PECO!

PECO, If you don't like the extra 3%, pay friends and family. Why is that so hard, maybe the seller IS giving you the price TYD if you pay cash or MO, or paypal F&F but, if you insist on paying in a matter that cost him more, you should make up the difference. Or like others have said, buy somewhere else

"... It is not the principle, it is just irritating."

Well... at least we finally agree on something. lol lol

I have sold a lot of things and never charged 3% for Paypal, it work very nice. If I want to I can raise the price 3%. I have as a buyer not purchased from sellers who want the 3%, I guess that way they loose 97%. The buyer does not need to buy from you. Make it easier on them. Or not. Won't affect me at all.

If it cost him more (for his protection) why is that my problem?. I said twice, I will not entertain, which means I will scroll past and look elsewhere.

PECO, paypal protects the buyer, not the seller. maybe that is why we are having this disconnect.

It's not seller protection. Gee Whiz! Where do you guys come up with this stuff. It's buyer protection. Since you won't believe me or some others, maybe you'll believe PayPal. Here's a quote from their site:

"Purchase Protection With Purchase Protection, get reimbursed if a qualifying purchase doesn't arrive or isn't right."

I always pay the fee. Not sure it's honest claiming otherwise...

Having read this thread the main thought that comes to my mind is how can folks get concerned about a 3% fee when setting the price on used archery equipment has such a large variation. Let me give a ‘specific’ example. You buy a new bow. You get a deal at $800. After a year or so you decide to move to another platform so selling the used bow becomes part of the plan. What’s the price of a used bow? I’ve been on this site a number of years and used bow prices seem to fall in the 40-60% of the price of a new model of the bow depending on whether it’s LH vs. RH, condition and popularity. That means the sales price is likely going to be in the $320-480.00 range. That’s a spread of $160 and the PayPal fees would be about $15.00. Now if you could price things to an exact dollar, maybe 3% is a big deal. But from where I sit, the likely range in selling price makes the fees so small they should not stand in the way of doing a deal.

From all the opinions I’ve seen, it appears folks will likely get closer to their asking price if PayPal is part of the deal. I know I’m getting dangerously close to agreeing with Jim Castro, but folks who place ads showing the fees tacked on, don’t give me the initial impression they are a serious seller. So, for me, I’ll likely pass, but your mileage may vary.

OK! So what if this should happen. The seller feels good after talking an sends the bow USPS 3 Day Priority Mail. Guys receives the bow in two days an is happy. Then sends Pay-Pal payment after the bow is received. Is it fair to expect the seller to take the hit of 3% after delivery is made..... I know the wait till you get money!

I still don't see what the big deal is. For the zillionth time, either deal or don't.

When a guy lists a bow for sale for $XXX.xx plus Paypal add 3%.

What he's telling you is, "I'll take money order, cash, check (maybe), but it you want the buyer protection, you're going to pay for it. You can either trust me, or pay for not trusting me."

Some folks like a simple TYD price. Others want a precise itemized breakdown of price, shipping, insurance etc. Paypal is just one more item on that list.

If someone quotes me a TYD price I assume he has factored all those items in. If not, I can handle simple arithmetic well enough to figure the total ;-)

I can't believe this thread has gone on this long. Either buy it the way the seller wants or DONT, as been stated it really is that simple. That's my story and I'm sticking o it. :-)

A simpler strategy:

"Bow for sale. Price is $400. PayPal preferred. 3% discount applied for cash, money orders and personal checks."

Buyer protection, ok I apologize for my misunderstanding.

"I still don't see what the big deal is. For the zillionth time, either deal or don't...

if you want the buyer protection, you're going to pay for it. You can either trust me, or pay for not trusting me."

That is actually where I think the offense creeps in and also the rip-off. If you aren't trustworthy, why is that my problem? So if I say I want the protection I am in the situation of calling you a liar/cheat. But in reality, I have no blessed idea who you are, there is nothing to trust. I think some handshake people are getting bent out of shape because they delusionally think that people are disrespecting them, when for all their counter party knows, they could be dealing with a convict in a penitentiary.

You guys cost me money! As I said above, normally I just send friend money, and I take the risk of only sending out trustworthy vibes. But with all the talk here, I used the commercial button, even though I was perfectly happy with the transaction so far. I rounded up to 4% though. :)

I prefer to buy using paypal. I give my buyers the choice of PP or a PO money order. they are the only ones I accept. My price is the same TYD. I always include the shipping cost in my price along with a 3% loss if they want PP. No big deal to me.

There are some who prefer PP, but will accept other forms of payment, some who will accept only PP, those who want PP and want a 3% fee added, and those who won't deal with PP, and those who will use PP, but won't add the 3% fee, and on and on... Do what you do and those who won't, won't...

It amazes me how much these "discussion" can dribble on.

The fee is well worth it to me,I have had a couple of money orders get lost in the mail.So I always send the certified mail which cost me extra money.Plus the inconvience of going to the post office,paying for a money order and mailing it certified.I prefer to use Paypal and more then happy to pay the fees,I can get it done without leaving the house with my computer or taking off work to run to the post office.

If a serious buyer wants a bow he's going to buy it! Or he never was serious. There are plenty of cheap lookers out there and all of them want steal deals. But why should I lose when I have a fair price to begin with? The 3% also gets a bow shipped same day! The buyer doesn't have to wait for a week or more days for the check to clear bow to ship. I don't trust any money order period. Paypal is a done deal as soon as I get the funds.

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