From: Shooter
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Date: 09-Oct-17 |
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Can or should you expect the same results as bareshafting carbon or is it a waste of time to try.
Reason I'm asking is I have two unfletched 43# spine and two fletched 43# spine arrows. The bare shafts are consistent in showing weak at 20-30 yards but the fletched shoot down the middle for the most part. If anything they show to be a little stiff.
Any thoughts appreciated
Shooter
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 09-Oct-17 |
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What does "for the most part" mean? If the arrows are stiff they will impact left for a right hander, but it wouldn't make sense to have weak bare shafts and stiff arrows in the same batch. Your arrows should shoot a line...neither left nor right...and so should your bare shafts, if they are proper spine for your bow.
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From: JusPassin
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Date: 09-Oct-17 |
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I have bare shaft tuned woods for a long time. Those who say it can't be done are doing something wrong. Start close.
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From: Shooter
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Date: 09-Oct-17 |
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Well George I new that statement would get some attention I figure it's a form problem but when I miss i miss to the left every time. I shoot right handed. I need to order some lighter points and see what happens with bare and fletched shafts. I had never tried bare shafting wood so I thought that maybe there was somthing I was missing in doing so.
Shooter
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From: Bender
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Date: 09-Oct-17 |
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Read this:
http://www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html
Click on "download printable version."
Follow it.
Make SPECIAL note of the fact that one makes tuning decisions based on comparing the point of impact of bare shafts against the point of impact of the fletched shafts. Tuning decisions are NOT made upon one OR the other then deciding to go with whatever result you think is "better."
Bare shaft as roughly outlined in that document is the "Gold Standard" regardless of the shaft material in question. Finer state of tune is achieved by adding certain tests or procedures to that same basic process if one wishes to do so.
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 09-Oct-17 |
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What George said. For those that have arrows flying side ways and even breaking they are grossly mis spined. I have never had that happen after consulting the calculator first or using a previous combination that worked. Bamboo,river cane,cedar,carbon,and aluminium all bare shaft just fine. I am shooting a set of bamboo now that I have not bothered to fletch yet.>>>--->Ken
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From: Hal9000
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Date: 09-Oct-17 |
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I have a reverse handle longbow with a lot of reflex, always thought it was finicky.. drawing maybe 46# on it with a 450+ string. Shooting wood, bare shafting, the point would hit the the mark at about 7 yards but would be either tail right or tail left, depending on the spine. Turns out 70 - 75 lbs shafts, 27" BOP with 125 grain tips fly like darts. The bow isn't finicky at all, just shooting shafts way under spined. It is 1/8th out from center.
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 09-Oct-17 |
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Youre right if the spine is what the bow wants they will fly.Ken
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 09-Oct-17 |
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Just realized the 7 yards was in there. They should hold the line to a min, of 20 Yards. You can tune them for much farther but past 20 my accuracy is not good enough for it to matter. If they hit in the fletched group at 20 I call it good. >>>----> Ken
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From: alex1987
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Date: 10-Oct-17 |
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Well good luck with woods... I gave up bareshafting wood arrows after breaking 4 out of 6 arrows...
However, I am not very experience so maybe I was doing somehting wrong. Alex
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 10-Oct-17 |
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You are not doing anything wrong. The arrows are the wrong spine. the right arrow will fly. They will shoot just fine with out feathers. >>>----> Ken
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From: Bowlim
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Date: 10-Oct-17 |
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When you put the feathers or vanes on that absorbs some of the string energy, and you would get they spineing stiffer. Shouldn't be by much though.
I assume that if one is breaking arrows it is by hitting something. You can avoid that by shooting judoed shafts over an open field, and you can see how the bareshafts fly. By the time they meet the (soft) earth 60 yds out, no damage at all.
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From: Bowmania
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Date: 10-Oct-17 |
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YOu don't have to use a bare shaft. Just put on a broadhead of the same field point weight and go to the end of the ACS bow site link mentioned above.
Bowmania
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From: GF
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Date: 10-Oct-17 |
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With one or maybe 2 possible exceptions, if you are breaking wood shafts, they’re just WAY off, that’s all. I managed to snap practically a whole test kit by shooting arrows that were much too stiff and reading the results back-asswards. Sooner or later, they’ll hit at such an angle that the back end of the arrow will try to wrap itself around the side of your target.
Start at 5 yards, tops, with the lightest point you think you’ll want to use and a full- length arrow in the spine range indicated by either Stu’s calculator or the draw weight marked on your bow.
If bare and fletched hit in the same place, keep backing up until they don’t. When the bare shaft starts to show Weak, cut it down. If you start to think that you’ve over-shot the mark on length and you’re beginning to show Stiff, just glue on a heavier point to confirm.
Just one thing to watch out for with full-length shafts, and that’s the dreaded False Positive: I was shooting #42 spine tapered cedars full-length out of a #50 Bamboo Viper (I’m probably hitting #46-#47 at my draw) and they appeared to be showing stiff at 15-20 yards... which is ludicrous. That arrow would spine at about HALF of what the bow requires.
And not to bust on Hal, there, but that sounds like a false positive to me. It would be really interesting to see some slow-mo video of one of those arrows flying like a “dart” at twice the spine rating that the bow probably calls for. Not saying it can’t happen; just saying I’d like to see it.
NOTE: 2bears educated me on this last Spring after he sold me that aforementioned Viper, and the 2 most important points are....
FIRST that you must aim at a vertical line and make note of where the bare shafts hit each time. Best way is a strip of tape or a line drawn with a fat marker on a clean sheet of paper. I found that opening up a paper grocery sack was about perfect. Bare-shaft hits got marked and arrow hits left clean. Sooner or later, you’ll have a bunch of colored marks on one side of that line or the other. And...
SECOND, that YOU MUST AIM at that line. Forget that non-sense about “not seeing” your arrow; you need to look VERY CAREFULLY at full draw to make sure that your nock is on a plumb-line below the center of the pupil of your dominant eye, and that the shaft and point are aligned as perfectly with the nock and target as you can possibly get them. And probably the closer to vertical you hold your bow, the better.
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From: aromakr
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Date: 10-Oct-17 |
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Shooter: What a lot of people do not realize is bare shafting will result in an arrow that is stiffer than needed once its fletched, and since I would guess you don't intend to shoot featherless arrows, then why do it!! What your experiencing is that both you fletched and unfletched shafts are the same spine. Not stiff enough without fletching.
The nice thing about wood shafts is you can buy any spine you need, unlike carbons and now there are less and less aluminum spines available.
Bob
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From: M60gunner
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Date: 10-Oct-17 |
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I know some can bareshaft woods and more power to them. But unless every shaft is very, very close in spine (1-3#) it seems an excerise in frustration. I wonder how many that shoot woods have a spine tester to ensure the shafts they received are really in the spine range they requested. It seems the 5# in variance in say 50-55# is interpreted differently by some suppliers. Then we have the weight variance to contend with. That is another wood shaft compromise, 5-10# is common but each shaft should be weighted as well. Seems like there is always a couple “heavies” in a doz. unless you pay extra for closer specs. Another maybe more important variable is straightness of those shafts. What may be a “straight” shaft to me may not be straight enough to use for bareshafting. Sounds like a rant against bareshafting woods or using wood arrows but after all the above have cost me time, money, and frustration I don’t bareshaft woods any more.
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 10-Oct-17 |
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Spine tester or not the target & shaft, don't lie. GF was a very good student and I am not going to repeat ever thing he just said. Once more if your shafts are flying sideways and even breaking they are the WRONG SPINE. Yes big feathers will correct them well enough to shoot. For those that still think bare shafting is a waste of time, Maybe it explains the lack of penetration with a rig that should shoot through a deer twice. (see other threads on deer loss) An arrow that is wobbling or requires a lot of feather drag to straighten out is not going to penetrate like a point on flying shaft. Those arrows that hit side ways in the target---- just how far did they penetrate the foam. Put enough feather to straighten it out how much did it slow it. Physics--something has to give. No I don't hunt with bare shafts I use all things available for game. I do shoot a set of bare bamboo shafts that penetrate just as deep as a fletched shaft, in foam at 20 yards ever day.(they hit point first and the point being heavier continues to pull the BARE shaft straight into the foam.) No amount of denial will change the facts but to each his own. P.S. a 44 pound bow sent arrows with 3" fletches so far through 2 bears That one was never found the second was at least 20 yards beyond the bear.They entered just behind the near leg and came out at the base of the neck on the off side. 20 seconds later (timed on the film) the bear is still and laying in sight. They were some thicker that deer. >>>>------> Ken
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From: Andy Man
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Date: 10-Oct-17 |
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PS: shooting wood (Douglas fir ) mainly but some cedars
not a fan of carbons at all, and can deal with aluminums but prefer to shoot wood
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 10-Oct-17 |
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Maybe my home made, self nocked,bamboo arrows, are straighter,closer in weight, and closer in spine than your carbons but I don't think so. They are straightened by eye using a little heat and other wise they are pretty much how they grew. They are not even that close in diameter one of the reasons for hand sawed and filed self nocks. I whittle them down or build them up for good point fit. They are pretty well matched in spine with a home made tester though. The big difference some folks want to learn and experiment others want to debate. It is all fun though.>>>----> Ken
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