When I started, many, many years ago I shot sticktive, then, became an indirect aimer and now shoot a fixed crawl on my hunting bows. I’ve messed with using the sight window a few times and I think I’ll play around with it some more this winter, figuring to give it an honest effort.

What little I've played, it only took a few arrows to find out that if I center the mark in the center of the window on my Dorado riser it’s dead on at 16 yards. That was easy enough.

It seems, so far, that the easiest way to shoot shorter distance is to just center widow a little low to the mark, and on longer shots just center the window a little high to the mark. Going to be interesting to see how this goes—I think… or not. :^)

Curious... how many of you folks use the sight window?

I am stuck on the fixed crawl for now. Does the bow need to be vertical?

Well... I don't think so. Seems the visual could be the whole sight picture. I think it's just a matter of learning that picture with regards to the window. In other words... I don't know--yet. :^)

I use the site window and I set my bows up so they all have the same "look" when shooting. I do not use a crawl. Always anchor split finger and anchor on my jaw directly below the corner of my mouth. Luckily I have a small lump on my jaw where I anchor. Has worked well for 40+ years. Killed a lot of critters doing it. The top of my site window is right on 25 yards.

As a side note I must shoot with both eyes open as anything closer than 25 yards and I am looking thru the riser, which you can't do with only one eye open. Ironically my brother taught my to shoot a shot that way when I was a young teenager shooting trap, skeet and birds. Shooting birds it is an added safety, with both eyes open you have a wider field of vision and see other hunters.

I posted about this very topic last month...here's the pic I used to describe such..."A Boxed Window"

It works and works well. :)

As long as it’s working for you, you will NEVER hear me tell you that you’re doing it wrong!

So far, I have not felt a great need to come up with a system for inside of normal hunting range, but the higher my expectations get for my horizontal home, the greater the chances are that I will start noticing that I’m dropping points I am low… So I’m listening to hear what the rest of you guys have come up with and what is working for you....

Jim, I've been beating that drum for years. Your eye naturally wants to center things. So, it works very well.

You can also go one step further and actually see the arrow inside the string. In doing that, if the target, and the arrow are centered in the sight window (actually the old timers called it the bow window, and that is the space between the string, and the sight window, or the limb on a bow with no sight window) then you are dead on as it relates to windage as well.

Almost like looking through a peep sight. And yes, it works. An old archer faaaaaar better than me taught it to me. You can do it with any anchor, any finger placement, any bow.

The top of my strike plate is 20 yards. Right now I have a strip of white tape on my riser. Top is about 15 and bottom is about 25.

After a while you don’t have to look at it any more

In modern traditional, the take they have on it, that is mostly a crawl video, is that you should be on the riser with the string.

They set up with rests and buttons, where at brace height the arrow head will be just to the left of the string, when the string is sighted center on the limbs/riser. With that set-up the string will be left edge, center, or right edge of the riser. The risers used in the video, are mostly Sky 25" Olympic type.

There reason they work with multiple positions is that the arrow spice varies given the crawl. You can beiter this out in target conditions, or use string position to accomodate. In fixed crawl you would only need one riser position, but it should be on a similar offset to the arrow, not right down the middle of it.

So that is the expected set-up, but your mileage can vary relative to riser dimensions, release, rests, spine... everything.

Did it for years with my Longbow

I just don’t get it... if your gonna mess around with tape, marks, this spot and that spot why not just shoot with a pin sight? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not starting a fight, just wondering why go through all the trouble of adding tape and such.

Timberking, the trad gods have decreed that sights are the works of devils. Didn't you get the memo?

TFIC

No sight marks just imagine the window framed position in relation to whatever distance is used.

Yes you can tape you window for ingraining/learning but obviously not allowed in a tourney.

Shooting a bow is not about how Trad you are, it's about putting the arrow where you aim, shot after shot.

Do whatever is required to reach this final accuracy/consistency goal, after it's achieved take the tape off and look as Trad as the next guy, they will never know unless you tell them ;-)

I aim with the sight window unless I'm point on! I've tried point of aim but like to be focused on the target. On another site Bob Gordon explained his 'gap at bow' method. That could've been 10 years ago now but it's still my favorite method.

Way back in the day some bows were made with several thin veneers of contrasting woods on the belly of the bow with different layers visible along the sight window. Low and behold, someone figured out how to use the layers as an aid to aiming. Smart guy. I understand the bows were later banned in some events because of 'cheating'.

"I’m not starting a fight, just wondering why go through all the trouble of adding tape and such."

I know...it took me HOURS to stick that tape on my riser. I can't believe how much trouble it was. Will never do that again. And removing it is even harder.

Why not just put sight pins on?

It's about gaining an advantage, cheating without cheating,lol. Thing is when you figure out this sorta thing so has everyone else in major tourneys so it's really not an advantage other than everyone shoots higher scores. Kinda like sight shooters limited on number of pins making the pin guard a length that gives you 2 extra pins by using the top and bottom bars. Anything that makes you more accurate is a huhe advantage hunting tho. Sights would move you to a higher class.

Improving accuracy with any methods is never cheating. Using whatever makes you confident with your shot is much much better than not using it because you are ashamed to use it due to some backdoor rumours.

I'm with Ranger...why not use sight pins? They will provide a more-accurate aiming point than referencing the center of the sight window. After all, the idea is to improve your shooting accuracy isn't it? Those who may infer that using sight pins is not traditional are only showing their lack of knowledge of our past and heritage.

ranger3 & Ollie,

Bottom line is, some of us don't want to use sights; we prefer to shoot barebow and no, this has nothing to do with improving my shooting accuracy. Just and old dog giving something new a have-at-it.

Set a bow up this morning and thought I’d give it a go. I put a set of 40# (at my draw length) limbs on my 21” Satori riser, set the nocking point at ½” high and grabbed some .600 GoldTip’s with 100 grain field points. I must say I got some rather… well… interesting results—so far.

I simply centered the mark in the sight window and I could see, after a few shots, that it was easier with each arrow to find that center. Like fdp said, your mind wants to center everything automatically—I guess.

Anyway… at 10 yards I was consistently hitting about 3” high; at 15 to 20 yards the arrows were on the mark, or at least close enough for now, and at 25 yards they were hitting at about 4” low. I was expecting a much wider range. I figured finding the place in the window for different distances to be much more difficult.

So far… so good.

They are talking about being legal for the "Trad" classes in 3D and other competition where marks or sights put you in a freestyle class....and in traditional there isn't a freestyle class. That is why they don't just use sight pins.

Now for hunting, a sight would likely help a lot of guys who aren't consistent. Bowhunters were using them in the 1940's, and likely sooner. By the 1950's, sights for hunting and field were already getting pretty intricate. This from The Archers Magazine, September 1952.

Why not just put sight pins on?

At the time I was shooting Longbow in tourney, it would mean I would have to be in a different shooting Div(likely against sighted recurves), it was just a way for me to shoot close range targets with a bit more confidence. For me it was highly effective I won several World/Euro titles in Field/3D using this as just one of a number aiming methods I adopted, basically whatever it took to make the shot (within given rules).

I agree if no tourney rules to restrict you then do whatever floats your boat.

This has been around for a while, many ways to aim without a sight.

https://charlesarcheryblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/various- methods-of-aiming-the-traditional-bow/

I'm shooting with a fixed crawl right now but I haven't had a chance to try it on game yet. If I don't like it then I'll probably put a single pin on the bow. I'm a decent shot without it but after 20 years of this stuff I realize that I tend to have a difficult time "picking a spot" on a deer. Using the tip of the arrow or possibly a single pin will help with that.

Altho some took my post as a put down it wasn't meant to be. I was just saying everyone looks for an edge in tournaments so since everyone else has one also you really don't get that edge even tho it makes you more accurate. Accuracy is never a bad thing especially when it can also be used in hunting. I don't know what my subconscious uses for aiming but I do know from things that have happened mine's not the arrow but very likely a subconscious form of what y'all are talking about.

Jinkster, in your "boxed window", do you think it works because it's an aim point or because it blocks out the peripheral vision, allowing you to just focus better on the target? I shoot better, especially at deer, with my recurve than my LB. I feel that the riser blocks out the part of the animal better that I don't want to shoot at, so my eyes wander less I guess. My LB doesn't have such a sight window and I cant it besides, opening up everything and letting "things" get into my head, preventing focus.

Stiff arrow shooting a bow with a high contrast fades.

IMO you'll find your own "box" with or without window if you shoot enough.

I abandoned "instinctive" and started fresh with fixed crawl. Went back to instinctive just for the heck of it (an experiment) and discovered that my instinctive was better than it uster be, apparently as a result of fixed crawl practice.

I never said it was a hard project that took HOURS to accomplish... I was simply asking WHY use tape, veneer colorations, pencil lines WHATEVER it is no matter how fast it is to apply OR remove. I remember reading about guys that taped wooden strike anywhere match sticks to their bow.

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